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kitten-kat

How Would You Go About Training...

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I have a new dog named Moose, he is a Newfoundland and Great Pyrenees cross, about 120 lbs, and beautiful. I want my new dog to learn to be good with my horses but not loose him to running off, so a leash is a must for a while.. I see too many lost dog signs to want it to happen to me.

Moose is 2 years old, and never had any Real contact with horses. He has seen them across from his old home, but till the other day no real close contact.. I have already introduced him to my boy with strict supervision. He did pretty good. However after walking him tonight, there are a few dogs he will try to be less than kind to if he were to get the chance, so I dont want to let him off leash for that reason as well.. I know Dogs can learn to walk beside a horse on leash, so I am wondering if it were you, how would you go best about it.

Eventually once he learns more manners, I want to try off leash, but I need to know he is safe with other peoples dogs too.. Although I do have a muzzle for when needed.. and will use one at the start of training for my horses added safety!

I figured while I am at it I might post a few pictures of the Moose so people get the idea of his size, about 115lbs or so.

He really did need a serious grooming when I first met him, he had so many clumps on him he was horrid

100_6168.jpg

After 3 hours of grooming, and lots of discussion on why he needed to be brushed so thoroughly, and several discussions on why teeth aren't to be used, (he mouths his dislike) he looked like this,

100_6178.jpg

We went outside for a while to cool down in the snow,

100_6180.jpg

The next day was Bath day, which you can imagine he was not impressed about,

100_6219.jpg

100_6218.jpg

He did afterwards feel Much better,

100_6226.jpg

and even had a nap on the way home,

100_6227.jpg

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Nice looking dog, esp after he is cleaned up!

Don't know if I would try and lead him with a lease off of my horse though. If he got excited, I could see him wrapping that lease around your horse's legs

I also adopted adog that had not been around horses before, he is a Dobby/shepard cross.

I did not take him on rides with me, until I had him mannered around horses, and obedient to voice commands. When riding along the road, and acar is coming, all I have to say is 'get off the road Heff', and he will walk right behind Smilie

We are still working on not running after deer, Lol, as he has to make that short dash, before 'get back here' over rides his reaction!

He understands that those bucking and running baby calves are off limits, though.

Do you live ina residential area and keep your horses else where?

I just see alot of potencial wreak, leading a dog off of a horse, even if justa nother dog ran up to him, and they got into a 'discussion'

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I would go with an e collar over leash off a horse for exactly the reason smilie said. I use it as a reminder and when I train puppies not to 'hunt' the horses, as a mild deterrent, I do not tollerate dogs chasing and barking at the horses so this is the best method I've used, especially for my hard headed (and strong willed) hounds and terriers. I train basic obedience on lead first, then on the e collar with lead attached then e collar alone. When consistent I introduce to the horses or other animsls off leash, using voice commands but having the e collar there as back up incase things progress badly. Something to think about at least. And I like something a little stronger than my voice alone when my dog accompanies me on a ride and there are any dangers involved, it will stop my hounds in their tracks if need be.

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yes I and my horses live in residential area.. My only worry isn't really what he will do, he is pretty good, and getting the idea, but he does sometimes have an issue with call back.. he didn't even respond to the name that I was told he had. I have led dog from horse back, but they were trained for that, it was a program I was involved in some years ago for a mounted search and rescue and dogs even horse dogs had to be leashed for training but out on track they were loose.. we used a 5 foot lead since it couldn't go around, and had to have a well reined horse. However I was not the one who trained the pair, I was learning to do it from the group, and I wanted to be a part, they provided the dog/horse groups, not many horse owners had a horse that was trained for it.

Edited by kitten-kat

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i'll ask my perennial question: is he neutered?

i taught a rescue bc (18 kilos) to pony, but it was off a rock solid horse that was raised with hounds in wales who as young dogs are all over the place when learning to go cubbing, and the leash was never long enough for the dog to get tangled in the horse's front legs. wouldn't do it with my current horse--he is very cowy and likes to chase/stalk anything that moves so that might be bad for my new dog's health.

i'd begin at the beginning and wait until you have all commands solid with you on the ground. i've had my current dog since july (border collie/aussie cross), and we only started last week to do a little bit of cow work with me on a horse. that makes 5 months of consistent groundwork and it's looking fairly solid (so far LOL).

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just wanted to add that around here it is perfectly legal for hunters to shoot a dog who is after game. another reason for me to really want to teach a solid callback while being in a position to intervene in case of a fail. tough to do when you're sitting on a horse and the dog has already disappeared into dense underbrush or forested territory.

also something to consider.

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My dog stays home when I ride in the mountains.

In fact, if you ride in the National Parks, you can't bring a dog. The reason is pretty obvious-dogs have a habit of running back to you and the horses, when they encounter something, while exploring

If that something is a bear-can get exciting!

An upset cow elk is bad enough. Found that one out the hard way. Our horses weren't too impressed, when a cow elk came charing out of the brush, after our dog, and straight for the horses

Even if the dog was good on the leash, would hate to see the results if a bunch of other dogs came out from somewhere and tangled with him. I'm sure any horse would draw the line at that point!

I strongly advise leaving your dog at home, until you have that obedience that will allow him to accompany you without a leash

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PS, to clarify, our dog does not run game. He might take one or two leaps towards some deer he sees in the field, but immediately comes back when given the voice command'get back here'

People here also can shoot dogs that run game, or horses and cattle for that matter.

Had a neighbour's dog chase our foals-once. Gave a warning.

They even went so far as to say that they didn't have a dog like that, even after we watched where it ran to

Dog came back again, but this time did not leave! They truly did not have a dog like that afterwards!

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Most of the places I ride are not national forest, and NOT near residential or cattle or any kind of places he can get in that kind of trouble.. but I was thinking back to the days when I was doing training for the mounted K-9 search and rescue in California when I was much younger. I want to teach my dog and horse to do this in the long run!! I know if done wrong can be a hassle.. that is why I was hoping someone round here had done the same kind of training... Our old training club in Cali has since disbanded, it has been 20 years, so I dont even know where to find one of the old trainers.

as to an info, this is the same horse I teach obnoxious ponies and other horses to lead from horse back, so I think he would have a good sense of mind as to the main job.. I just want to figure out details..

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once again, if he's solid with you on the ground with voice commands or just hand signals (i teach these because i can't yell that loudly, and sometimes it's so windy here that your voice gets "carried away") he'll transfer all of it to you being on a horse, including the callback. my bc/aussie is sorting cows now with me on a horse, but we spent 5 months with me on the ground getting the communication clear.

a horse that can teach other horses to pony is different than a horse that is used to dogs doing potentially hazardous things around their legs and feet. the horse that i mentioned before that i used to teach a dog to pony grew up with fox hounds, teaching them to go cubbing, was used to them *being underfoot*. very different than ponying an animal that can't get tangled up in your horse's legs.

you have to take the time it takes--you can't *rush* obedience and you can't *rush* the relationship. please be safe

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Nope can not rush, specially with something as large as a pony.. and BTW Yes he is neutered.. He spend 1.5 years on a chain so is learning all the leash commands now.. it will take a while before I am ready for the equine part.. I have a lot of work with him.. he pretty much got forgot. I plan to start work with him on leash next to the horses with a handler, and also working on a LOT of voice commands.. he doesn't yet see Hand commands, but he is learning.. we are getting sit down finally and stay.. And Recall is getting better, specially since he is learning his name. He was called Buck, but Daniel came with that name as well, and well I just am not fond of it, so we are calling him moose.

I am working DAILY on walking and manners under walk. We are getting better, but still a long way off from horse trails.

Edited by kitten-kat

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Ponying another horse is way different from leading a dog off of a horse.

We lead pacvk horses all the time, and I also used to pony yearlings when I showed young horses

Even if your dog is well behaved, what would happen if another dog ran out and tangled with yours, while he was being led off of your horse?

I can see where teaching a dog to lead off of a horse would not be difficult-until 's...' hits the fan!

Also, when I am leading another horse, that horse's head is up by my saddle horse's shoulder, and not down around his legs

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Dog training works better with raw meat. He will adore you and think you always have some. My 2 yr old heeler mix thinks I'm God and can hardly be without me. When we ride, she stays about 10,15 ft. ahead and guards the road for me LOL. Didn't feed her that much extra then and she just knows who loves her and what her job is. But then she's part heeler.

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Okate, the OP is not taking about basic dog training, but leading a dog off of a horse.

My dog also follows my horse with great respect, gets right next to my horse, when asked to do so, such as when traffic is coming, and also thinks the sun rises and sets with me, and I don't ever use treats, esp raw meat!

My basic contention is to train a dog to ride with your horse obediently at libery, as I see some inherent danger, leading a dog off of a horse, when the un expected happens-like another dog tangling with yours while he is on that leash

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as far as what works best with basic obedience you have to get to know the dog first, before you can decide what will motivate and what will discourage. a professional dog trainer with their salt could probably figure this out in the space of one or two sessions, but us mere mortals may need more time than that. this would be like you meeting me for the first time and deciding trendy clothing and jewelry would work :rotf:

my current dog is SO uncomplicated i knew within a week what would work with him, and it wasn't raw meat. he loves tennis balls and the next door neighbor's 7 year old daughter. i didnt need any more information than that, and used ALL of it to lay the foundation which is turning out to be SO, SO easy to use in advanced applications with the work with cows. and i have taught this dog EVERYTHING on a play basis.

my friend who breeds and raises rhodesian rhidgebacks has to have a COMPLETELY different strategy. very, very different type of dog. i would suggest you read up on the breeds' backgrounds (you've got two in there i think) to help you develop a reasonable starting point while you're getting to know the dog. have fun and stay safe!

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To continue branching out on this subject, there are places dogs don't belong

One of my pet peeves are dogs that are dragged to horse shows, or have to come camping with horses, barking all night long, or coming into your camp space .

I have had steaks stollen right out of my camping area by dogs

Had a near wreak when several large dogs attacked our two pack horses, that were dallied up nose to tail, and my husband, new to packing at the time,a nd who was leading the pack horses, had the pack horses tied into his saddle horse's tail.(never made that mistake again!)

Thus, I think there is a time to simply leave that dog at home, unless he is very well trained to obey your commands, without needing to be on a leash.

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K-kat

There's good advice. My meager thoughts are this:

If your horse has pony experience great. It knows its job.

I'm more concerned with his lack of socialization. You said he has some dog-aggressiveness and can be mouthy. I work at a vet clinic, small animal, and we see so many poor critters that have never been allowed to develop their natural social behavior (dogs, i mean). These guys are often fearful, anxious, or simply aggressive. It's good to hear you've gotten him off the chain. Concentrate on training him first to build bond between you and get him socialized with other dogs, people. Once that's down, he should fall right

Into your pre-existing herd.

Any new dog n our family goes through obedience training in group class with prof dog trainers I've come to trust. Then they meet ponies and get to play with other family dogs

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Sorry i rambled there. As far as leash training on,horse back, i like to use a retractable leash. Gives and takes with out the slack to get tangled. And if disaster ensues bail and toss the leash. :-)

Good luck

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My dogs go trail riding with us regularly. Our younger dog will walk on a leash just fine, with me riding. My horse is 100% solid, though, and Wrigley is extremely calm on a leash. I use a short lead. We only do that if we have to do a short jaunt on the road, not for an entire ride. I have to admit that I didn't train anyone for this - my plan was just to walk my horse and the dog in this area, but everyone was so calm, I just hopped back on. No problems, but my Jet does everything that way.

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To continue branching out on this subject, there are places dogs don't belong

One of my pet peeves are dogs that are dragged to horse shows, or have to come camping with horses, barking all night long, or coming into your camp space .

I have had steaks stollen right out of my camping area by dogs

Had a near wreak when several large dogs attacked our two pack horses, that were dallied up nose to tail, and my husband, new to packing at the time,a nd who was leading the pack horses, had the pack horses tied into his saddle horse's tail.(never made that mistake again!)

Thus, I think there is a time to simply leave that dog at home, unless he is very well trained to obey your commands, without needing to be on a leash.

I have to say I am 100% in agreeance with Smilie. And I'll go one step further and say that I-eeeee - would never bring one of MY-eeee dogs along on a ride with other horses. I would just never be able to relax and enjoy the ride. I'd be too busy watching what the other horses are doing - what my dog is doing....worrying that one of the horses was going to go after my dog.......bla bla bla.

However I like it when one of the couples in our Trail Riding club brings THEIR dog along when we're in bear country. Because the dog stays caught up - stays completely out of the way of all horses - lets us know if we need to heads up for critters..................and it's................not my problem.

;)

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He is doing well, he is going out to the barn with me every time, and is very friendly with the horses and they like him too.. He is quiet with them, and doesnt like when they go away form him, he will bark for their return which oddly they promptly do. He is working on his recall command, and doing ok with that, getting better every time..

The only places he will ever go ride with me are places with usually no other riders or other peoples dogs. But there are moutain lion and sometimes bears, so having him along is protection there.. and since we ride mostly out in these areas, he is a welcome companion.

He hasnt been out on a ride yet, we are again still working on recall training and better leash training.. He is coming along much better since the application of his own halter, he no longer pulls at all and has learned heal very well he is sitting and staying on command and for long periods as well..

He has gotten almost 100% better on leash with other dogs, and has a few K-9 friend outsie the home pack he plays with to keep him socialized.

All together he is turning into a great dog. Even a friend of mines horses who are used to the Aussie shephard they have chasing them, they like Moose a lot and will come visit and hang out with him, where as with their own dog, they have a game of chase me chase you. I dont approve of those games, so Moose is not allowed to join, and her dog is learning when I am around it is not allowed..

Cant complain.. I did get hold of an old instructor from the Equine/K-9 group I rode with and he has sent one of his old training booklets, so I am studying them.. he is a strong believer in the training colars witht he different frequencies and strengths, as he says sometimes you just need them.. otherwise he says from when he has learned of my efforts to work Moose into the herd is good.. Just to take my time, he said sometimes a good dog isnt even introduced to the ridden leash for almost a year! So I am doing just fine there..

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I have a new dog named Moose, he is a Newfoundland and Great Pyrenees cross, about 120 lbs, and beautiful. I want my new dog to learn to be good with my horses but not loose him to running off, so a leash is a must for a while.. I see too many lost dog signs to want it to happen to me.

Moose is 2 years old, and never had any Real contact with horses. He has seen them across from his old home, but till the other day no real close contact.. I have already introduced him to my boy with strict supervision. He did pretty good. However after walking him tonight, there are a few dogs he will try to be less than kind to if he were to get the chance, so I dont want to let him off leash for that reason as well.. I know Dogs can learn to walk beside a horse on leash, so I am wondering if it were you, how would you go best about it.

Eventually once he learns more manners, I want to try off leash, but I need to know he is safe with other peoples dogs too.. Although I do have a muzzle for when needed.. and will use one at the start of training for my horses added safety!

I figured while I am at it I might post a few pictures of the Moose so people get the idea of his size, about 115lbs or so.

He really did need a serious grooming when I first met him, he had so many clumps on him he was horrid

100_6168.jpg

After 3 hours of grooming, and lots of discussion on why he needed to be brushed so thoroughly, and several discussions on why teeth aren't to be used, (he mouths his dislike) he looked like this,

100_6178.jpg

We went outside for a while to cool down in the snow,

100_6180.jpg

The next day was Bath day, which you can imagine he was not impressed about,

100_6219.jpg

100_6218.jpg

He did afterwards feel Much better,

100_6226.jpg

and even had a nap on the way home,

100_6227.jpg

You did as nice a job on Moose as you do on your saddles.

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With horses: walk him close to the horses everyday so that he gets used to them, and get a little closer each time. make him feel comfortable when he is around the horses (Give him some pets and a couple treats) so that he will see being around horses as a good place to be. Get out one of your horses that are used to dogs walking behind/underneath them, and tie the horse up. Then bring your dog close to the horse and see how your dog reacts. If he gets tense and puts his ears back, take him away from the horse for a few minutes. Try again and again until he starts to warm up to the horse and relaxes his body (maybe even if he wags his tail) and give him alot of praise.

With Dogs: Have a friend come over with her trustworthy dog and go out into an open area (With both of the dog's leashes on) and have your friend walk her dog 20 feet away from you and your dog. Then, have her walk 15 feet away, then 10 feet. Watch your dog carefully to see if he shows any signs of being aggressive toward the other dog. If your dog is comfortable with the other dog, have them walk up to each other and let them check each other out. Watch for tail wagging and perked ears is a good sign. They will tend to start laying, so let them! : )

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