kitten-kat

Oppinions On This Tool

79 posts in this topic

I was trying to show an under run heal and run forward toe to argue that you can not bring a toe back without cutting sole. Most horses are out of balance, long one side , short the other. You need to cut sole to even a horse up so to say you never cut sole is rediculous. Same with bringing the toe back. As for dobbed toes I prefer to set a shoe back then hang it out front. With shoing most knife edge the toe and then hang a shoe right out to the edge. I prefer to rasp the toe back and then fit the shoe back to that dubbed toe. As the horse grows long you experience tripping because the toe has grown out and once again requires it to be brought back.

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I realize what you were trying to do, and you are looking at cosmetically 'fixing' that long toe wall in one trim, which is done in total disregard of internal structures, versus using several progressive rehabilitative trims that will allow that toe to shorten, heels brought back under the horse, without undermining sole depth, and other internal structures.

Carving out sole, esp in front of the apex of the frog, is a major fault of traditional farrier work

You trim a horse according to the parameters of internal structures and don't just trim toe wall length to those parameters arbitrarily

Hoof care and understanding of hoof dynamics has progresses, like any other science, and what was accepted and 'traditional practice in the past, is not always true today, in light of new info and understanding

I am not saying you could shorten that toe in one trimming, without invading live sole, but when you do that, versus allowing that toe to shorten on it's own over time, as sole concavity and depth increases, is to sacrifice internal structures of that hoof, with that foot looking 'normal', but far from it in reality.

I think you would understand more as to what I'm trying to say, by really reading some of these articles (by the way, both Jamie Jackson and Pete Ramey were once traditional farriers. Gene Onovick, who still shoes, when needed, and developer of the natural balance shoe, also pioneered the ELPO hoof mapping, whether that horse will be shod, or allowed to remain barefoot

I would really be interested in seeing the sole of that horse, after the trim and before shoes are applied

Here is some info on reading the sole, and when you can apply an aggressive trim and when you need to leave that sole alone, and it has nothing to do with toe length

http://www.hoofrehab.com/HorsesSole.html

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I will post one paragraph from that article, that will hopefully get across what I'm trying to explain

Wild hooves and healthy domestic hooves with uniform sole thickness tend to have their collateral grooves (at the deepest part) about ¾” off the ground at the apex of the frog, and about an inch off the ground toward the back (Near the termination of the bars). These measurements can be taken by laying a rasp across the foot and measuring down to the bottom of the groove.

If this measurement is ¼” deep at the apex of the frog, you can very safely assume that there is not enough sole between the coffin bone, its sensitive corium, and the outdoors. It must be allowed to build. If this measurement is 1 ½” deep, you can very safely assume material could be removed. The same exact logic applies to the back of the foot as well.

These measurements are far more critical to the horse than toe length or heel height measurements. The coffin bone and lateral cartilages often descend into a lower position in the hoof capsule and this leaves a hoof capsule that is longer than natural. This is unhealthy, of course, but trimmers and farriers who ignore this fact and trim to heel or toe length dimensions add injury to injury by overexposing the nerves in the corium on the bottom of the foot. Thinning the sole tends to cause the inner structures to move lower and lower, lengthening the overall hoof capsule. The flip side of this, is that allowing the sole to build and callus at optimum thickness drives the inner structures upward. The coronet moves down the skeleton, shortening the hoof capsule to natural proportions as the callus builds. The center and right pictures below show the natural sole thickness and concavity of a wild horse's foot.

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Ditto to Kitten-kat... both examples have very underrun heels... the second are almost crushed.

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You can take back significant toe on very under-run heeled horses.

New client... first trim

BEFORE 1004856_10202258227232089_203581061_n.jp

AFTER 1964838_10202258227672100_1197724904_n.j

Live sole was not invaded. Horse walked off sound on hard ground/gravel.

I'll be back in a week for second trim and will get updates if desired.

Edited by Chocomare

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`Ive started using ELPO guidelines to get long toes back and breakover corrected the first trim in most cases. I find I get faster and better results. Ill leave the toe pillars long and strong for a few trims to get the toe back and the heels coming in straight. Then ill fix any issues with the pillars and quarters later. It seems to work pretty well. If the horses foot is trashed or too weak, I still take the toes back to proper breakover and cast them now a few rounds.

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Patty was a Natural Balance instructor and I followed her post for years. While I tried natural balance in the end I didn't like it and went back to traditional shoeing.

She basically got killed on a shoeing forum. Personally I really liked her.

Edited by DR650

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I spent allot of time in an Amish blacksmith shop watching how they did thiings. 16 horses, one morning, 64 shoes with studs and that was before lunch and I bet every one of those shoes stayed on and did their job.

Couldn't say that for most farriers and yes they cut sole, dub the toes and use 8 nails and they use their horses. A lost shoe probably means a lame horse.

I won't go with natural anything, love to run barefoot but it just doesn't work for a working horse.

When did they start shoing?? copied from googling

It is unknown who invented the first horseshoe. Early Asian horsemen used horse booties made from leather and plants. During the first century, the Romans made leather and metal shoes called "hipposandals". By the 6th and 7th centuries, European horsemen had begun nailing metal shoes to horses' hooves. Around 1000 AD, cast bronze horseshoes with nail holes had became common in Europe. The 13th and 14th centuries brought the widespread manufacturing of iron horseshoes. Hot-shoeing, the process of heating the horseshoe before shoeing the horse, became common in the 16th century.

All before the first horseshoe was ever patented.

Edited by DR650

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Forget the toes, imagine what it feels like to have your heels in the center of your foot. P3 is at ground level at start.

)

rehabi12.jpg

Is this horse even walking on the horn or is he walking on the sole?? How does the lamini come into play if the sole is laying on the ground?? could you nail a shoe on this trim without modifying it?? Does this mean that a barefoot horse doesn't need the cushioning of lamini.

A horse's hoof has 6 to 8 square feet of cushion in each hoof because the sole is suspended independent of the hoof wall but if the sole is laying on the ground the lamini has no place to flex??

Just cutting wall is also cosmetic while the sole takes all the load??

I properly shod horse rides on his hoof wall and not the sole.

Yes you need frog contact with the ground for good circulation but that is where a shoe sinking in the dirt comes into play allowing contact plus shoes do collect mud making for more contact.

Shoes for most are not an option, they are a necessity for a working animal

You try going barefoot.

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AFTER1964838_10202258227672100_1197724904_n.j

Live sole was not invaded. Horse walked off sound on hard ground/gravel.

I'll be back in a week for second trim and will get updates if desired.

And you are going to return in a week?? Do you get to charge again? A trim is $40 to $50 each visit??? Good cash grab.

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first, there are reasons to shoe a horse, because of the work we ask that horse to do, and the fact that the horse is not given a chance to adapt to the ground he is asked to work on.

However, we have to realize that there is a compromise in doing this, by hanging a horse from the walls of his feet and peripheral loading

The weight of the horse is supposed to be shared by the walls, frog, sole and bars, with the walls being primarily first, but not the sole weight bearer,.

Most of us cannot manage ahorse to the point that he is barefoot capable on all ground, as it requires lots of movement, all all kind of terrain, thus we shoe or use hoof boots as needed

Having said that, what makes a horse truly sound is depth of sole and concavity. Wall length and shoes only make a horse appear sound, by keeping that sensitive sole off of the ground

Take a thinned soled horse, shoe him without pads, and ride him on terrain where the added height that the shoes provide, are negated, and that horse will be sore

Here is the physicological trim, brought out through Dr Bowker's research

Entire article:

http://cvm.msu.edu/alumni-friends/information-for-animal-owners/physiological-trimming-for-a-healthy-equine-foot

The Physiological Trim

Bowker has studied the various components (the frog, sole, blood flow, etc.) of the equine foot and has determined the role they play together to make a “good” equine foot.

According to him, “The aim is to use this acquired knowledge to prevent and better treat cases of navicular syndrome and other chronic foot ailments.”

Bowker and his students at the Equine Foot Laboratory, in close collaboration with other farriers and veterinarians, have developed guidelines for a “physiological trim.” While some aspects of the trim are not new, they have been forgotten or have been underutilized by most hoof care professionals.

Bowker explains, “The physiological trim is a trim that permits the tissues of the foot to function optimally in dissipating impact energies during foot contact with the ground.”

According to him, “This physiological trim is the result of the continuous evolution of our research. We’ve found that the back part of the foot and blood flow is a major mechanism for dissipating energy.

“Our research has shown that the equine foot is constantly adapting and responding to environmental conditions. Most feet are sculpted by their environment, rather than only by genetic influences.

“We have found that from a neuroanatomical point of view, the equine foot is designed to hit the ground heel-first. This concept of hitting the ground heel-first is seen in virtually all feral horses and the majority of sound domestic horses.

“We have also determined that the back part of the foot should be the largest surface, area-wise, for ground impact.” Bowker explains, “This is very much like a human being wearing high-heeled shoes as opposed to sneakers. The more comfortable sneakers distribute the load over a larger surface area, versus the smaller area of a high-heeled shoe.” An impact load distributed over a large surface area can be better supported with minimal stress by the foot tissues.

Bowker further explains that the horse has the additional energy dissipation mechanisms of the large blood flow through this same region. Together this large surface area—coupled with the frog and the blood flow—is what dissipates the energy.

When the back part of the foot and frog do not touch the ground, this impact energy is not dissipated but instead is transmitted to the bones and other tissues of the foot.

These tissues do not dissipate the impact energy well. The long-term result of insufficient energy dissipation is chronic foot problems and lameness. For example, in under-run feet, the ground contact area is usually under the coffin bone rather than under the back part of the foot.

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Shoes

To shoe or not to shoe, that is often the question. Bowker explains, “If the horse must have shoes on, the problem results in the frog being elevated from the ground. Therefore, it isn’t touching the ground and doing its job of bearing weight. Physiological function of the foot is compromised and the foot begins to contract.

“Some farriers have started trimming the foot so the frog is as close to the ground as possible—and even touching the ground—when the horse has shoes on. Therefore, if the horse has to have shoes on, this is the next best option.”

What about barefooted horses with tender feet? Bowker explains, “It is simply a matter of ‘whatever you ride the horse on is what you should bed the horse on.’ The foot will adapt to whatever environmental surface the horse is standing on. The problem arises when we bed them on soft surfaces (straw, shavings, rubber mats, etc.) and then expect them to walk/trot/gallop on rocks.

“There are hundreds of barefoot endurance horses that are housed and trained on hard-packed surfaces (hard dirt, gravel, small rocks, etc.) without tender feet. The environment is the major determinant of a healthy foot rather than genetics. Again, it is a matter of common sense, as the foot will adapt to its environment. However, I do not recommend that horses be kept on cement.”

How to Gradually Turn a
Bad Foot Into a Good Foot

Bowker recommends the farrier use these trimming techniques conservatively to gradually turn a bad foot into a good foot and allow the foot time to adjust.

“We do know that such a physiological trim as described here and greater movement—rather than stall rest—are critically important to producing a good foot, regardless of the breed of horse.”

Bowker has received dozens of letters and emails from owners and veterinarians asking about their horses’ prognosis with navicular syndrome. Most of these horses have been through all sorts of pads/bar shoes, acupuncture, and pain management therapy, with little or no improvement.

However, with using this “physiological trim” (removal of the shoes and lowering the heels to get the frog on the ground), the horse owners and veterinarians have communicated back to Bowker that the feet responded and began to become sound within a short time period (six to eight weeks).

For additional information on Bowker’s research, see New Theory May Help Avoid Navicular and A New Theory About Equine Foot Physiology.

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What is Peripheral Loading?

Peripheral loading of the hoof occurs when the hoof wall bears more of the weight. Peripheral loading occurs by degrees; there is more peripheral loading in a shod hoof standing on a flat surface, versus a bare hoof on a flat surface. There is more peripheral loading in a bare hoof standing on a flat surface, versus a bare hoof standing on turf. Peripheral loading is dependent on both the type of trimming involved (i.e. shoeing, or trimming so that the hoof wall bears most of the weight) and the surface the hoof is standing upon (whether or not there is material to pack into the hoof, to relieve the peripheral load).

Peripheral loading is a negative thing.

Why? Because Bowker’s Dopplar Ultrasound studies have shown that the greater the peripheral loading, the worse the blood flow throughout the hoof capsule! Bowker discovered that with less peripheral loading, the greater the perfusion of blood flow through the hoof. Better blood flow equals healthier hooves.

The best thing we can do for our horses’ hooves is to try to relieve the peripheral load. How? By transferring some of the load to the sole. Solar loading appears to promote blood flow through the hoof. Think about it—what is natural for the horse? A wild horse lives on undulating terrain, with dirt, grass and weeds. This variable terrain provides a cushion that packs into his hoof as he moves across it. Small rocks and debris provide a constant, but changing, source of stimulation to the sole.

Peripheral loading occurs when the edge of the hoof (hoof wall) bears more of the weight load. Peripheral loading always occurs with shoes, since they focus the weight upon the hoof wall. A shoe can therefore be called a peripheral loading device. However, peripheral loading can also occur with barefoot trimming, if the trim places more of the weight upon the wall. Over-trimming hoof structures such as the frog, sole and bars, so they have no possibility of sharing in the weight-bearing load, will tend to create more peripheral loading. Allowing the hoof wall to grow too long will create more peripheral loading. Anytime the frog is not in contact with the ground, peripheral loading takes place. To make things more complicated, peripheral loading is completely dependent upon the hoof’s surface—a hard surface increases peripheral loading, while a softer surface decreases it. A solar plug (material packed into the hoof’s concavity) minimizes peripheral loading.


Peripheral loading is a negative situation for the hoof, because it severely interferes with blood flow inside the hoof. Bowker conducted experiments in velocity of blood flow in the hoof using Doppler Ultrasound. What he discovered is that harder surfaces made the blood flow faster, and when it did that, it never “perfused” the tissues. It was just like a rainstorm in the desert (and I’ve seen plenty of those!)—water gushes down in a flood, but never sinks into the ground. The faster the blood flow, the less blood made it to the tissues!

Edited by Smilie

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While I in no way mean to imply that every horse can work barefoot, as often people just are not dedicated enough to achieve this goal, for it requires more than a trim, but entire lifestyle changes, it is also true that there are many performance horses out there, working barefoot

Most of our domestic horses just do not achieve this degree of barefoot soundness, due mainly to lifestyle, which includes turn out full time on all kinds of terrain, movement and diet

There are also times added traction is needed. I'm not an anti shoe Nazi, but I do realize shoing is a compromise, creates peripheral loading and is a factor in the development of common chronic lameness's

A good farrier, regular re -sets and time out of shoes can minimize the negative effects of shoing

http://www.barehoofcare.com/katz.html

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A good farrier, regular re -sets and time out of shoes can minimize the negative effects of shoing

I try to give my boy a few months a year without shoes.

Spring in the mud season I try to leave him barefoot as much as possible.

In the summer while I run the grass in town to cut down on divits, quieter running across cement but wear becomes a factor running the cement dust community trails which are sand paper to the feet

And fall in the leaves before the snow.

Come winter it is for traction , thus 4 studs on each foot, heel studs do not work alone.

I do find more white line seperation in the heal area when they wear shoes and asked other farriers about it and they notice the same thing.

I would love to run without shoes full time but it is just not possible.

I also find when you put a pair of shoes on the barefoot horse the next reset you have to tighten the shoes up allot and the reset after that they are ok and need very little adjustment.??

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I trained my gelding to a lot of city street riding, and we also rode (still do just not as often) a lot of gravel and road packed back roads, so we could enter an endurance race later that year, when he first started before he go callous built up, he would wear hos hoof in odd patterns from striking the ground....asphalt i learned was the fastest way to build good solud foot, just let him walk out on that a few hours a ride 3-4 times a week, and then get hime do a quick balancing rasp to even oyt the other side (he toes out in front, and wears one side more than the other. So i did a quick millimeter or 2 off the other side to maintain even wear.) I found after 3 months even a new rasp wont cut through those feet anymore, and though he grows fast, a trim every 2 weeks, his feet dont get worn down on our training routines.

My boy hasnt worn shoes in 6 years, he is naturaly a bit club footed in the front, and toes out starting at the knee, he is 10 this year, and accused of being part goat where we ride. He has great traction on ice, snow, mudd, cement, asphalt, and grasses, he doesnt need shoes, rarely needs boots, had a ton of rocks to climb around in hus feed stalls, and soon to be around some other locations in hus paddock, and his rides out for hoyrs, and soundly each time....

Just like my feet from winter boots, to shoeless summer, my horses feet get calluses, and they get really tough....He has no need for shoes, wether moving cattle, riding trails, or riding with friends training for endurance....

Good luck with your ways of thinking, mine works for my horses, and has made sound many who were thaught couldnt be sound wthout shoes very comfy in their own feet, never had one go lame unless I lustened to the wrong people, and not the foot in front of me. I changed from that to where I am now, works for me, glad your works for you, but I would never pasture yours with mine, those studs cause damage to other horses....

Edited by kitten-kat

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A typical winter shoe. borium on the toe with Drill Tec on the heal. 4 crystals of drill tec washed with golden rod on each heal

2mq8bxh.jpg

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Only horses I ever used, or have ridden, that needed those were heavy draft driving horses driven on steep hills, city requirement, not a choice I would practice, but that is the only time Ive ever or would consider such.

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Only horses I ever used, or have ridden, that needed those were heavy draft driving horses driven on steep hills, city requirement, not a choice I would practice, but that is the only time Ive ever or would consider such.

If you rode through all kinds of winter weather shoes are a must. Often I ride over glare ice and no barefoot horse would make it safely across. I hear his studs biting into the ice and know he will not slip.

While summer doesn't cause any traction problems wear does and if an aluminum shoe wears out in a week and iron in 8 the soft hoof has no chance.

I agree with barefoot but I am not going to change his or my lifestyle to accommodate it.

Smilie did say it requires compromise, a change in how you turn out and I will not compromise.

You can even feel the confidence in a horse wearing shoes. He is unconcerned with where he puts his foot while barefoot his is always watching, always ouchy?? Often my guy barefoot will try and run partly in the ditch trying to protect his feet from the gravel. Even traction in dirt is superior with shoes and from day to day I can tell the difference in how much he slips. Shod one day, barefoot the next , then back to shoes. YOu can feel the difference, the confidence with shoes.

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Your welcome to your opinion.... it is your own, and if that works for you, great, didnt work for me. But honestly, this is supposed to be about oppinions on the tool in the OP. Not your bashing what you think sou d knowledge into my brain, I dont need information on your shoe'ing technique... As Im not a supporter of steel shoes, your opinions on them dont apply here...

Have a great day.

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Your welcome to your opinion.... it is your own, and if that works for you, great, didnt work for me. But honestly, this is supposed to be about oppinions on the tool in the OP. Not your bashing what you think sou d knowledge into my brain, I dont need information on your shoe'ing technique... As Im not a supporter of steel shoes, your opinions on them dont apply here...

Have a great day.

I did give you my support of the tool and if I was still into shoing on a larger scale I would certainly buy the tool . I am tempted as it is to buy it.

Simlie and others said you can not cut sole thus not recommending the tool. I disagreed and say that sole needs to be cut thus the tool to me looks very good.

Mine is not an opinion it is fact, fact obtained by 10 of thousands of miles put on horses.

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Let be be clear, so I am not mis qouted

I did not say there was never a time to not cut sole, as often that is done on a set up trim, and often there is false sole build up. What I said is that one does not cut into sole, just going by dorsal wall length, without mapping sole depth, using landmarks like the collateral grooves and depth of sole at the true apex of the frog

Once the hoof is properly mapped, then one does not routinely thin that sole, but leaves it alone

Of course you can't just pull shoes, esp on a horse that has had his soles thinned, and expect him to move sound barefoot. The question, though, that you have to ask yourself, is whether that horse is truly sound, or if shoes just lift that sensitive thin sole off of the ground

What is a sound horse? A horse that is barefoot sound on the ground he lives on.

What creates a truly sound horse, with able barefoot hooves? Movement, and lots of it. Confinement is not in the best interest of the horse, either for digestion or hoof health

I do use borium smear shoes in late fall in the mountains, but those shoes are on for a month, max, then the horse is barefoot again

What I said,is, that often we never have the chance to let our domestic horses develope hooves that are barefoot able on all ground,, thus need to use some sort of hoof protection,asking them to do the jobs we ask of them, riding on ground they have not had a chance to adapt to It is also true that this lack of ability to work barefoot, does show some hoof pathology. Most domestic horses have half the sole depth of wild horses,yet those horses have toe wall length of 3 " or less

My own experience-when Einstein fell prey to the results of having been shod, allowing his heels to become under run,toes long, and I pulled his shoes for good, he had a toe wall lenght at least 2inches longer than now and a completely flat foot. Without ever cutting into sole, it took a year for him to get those heels back under him, and his toe wall is tighter and 2 inches shorter, yet he has lots of sole concavity

How is this possible? By undermining the sole, constant peripheral loading, distal descent occurs. The entire horse literally sinks through that hoof capsule, and x-rays of such horses,often show p2 below the coronary band

By building up sole depth, the coffin bone is driven back up higher, allowing for shorter toe walls, yet lots of concavity. That is why just carving a sole to shorten a toe wall, not knowing how much sole you have to work with and where those internal structures are, is wrong

Yes, there are times, due to the fact that we have neither the ability or patience or movement to allow ahorse to remain barefoot, we have them shod, and , this can be a negligible ill, but never believe that shoing is in the best interest on any horse;s hoof health, esp long term-research shows otherwise

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The first example is a not just an underrun heel, but a negative palmer angle happening. This one is not going to be a quick fix. I consider this an advanced pathology. The pull on tendons and ligaments is forefront in my mind. Balance must be found, gradually, but with determination before further damage is done. The bubbled out wall at the toe is sign that this neg. palmer angle has pulled P3 straight back from the front wall by tendon pull.....consider it totally unattached laminae in that bubble and just how much attachment is left. The rasping away at the bubble from the top would not be in the the horse's interest and dubbing it at the toe only a hopeful thinned/weakened anchor of what's to come, plus a strict bevel placement is going to set him back on what heels? So, a strict bevel would not be one of my priorities either. It's going to be balance and disengaging the torque without thinning the structure he has left to stand on, to ease up on the tendons and gradually relocate that hoof under his descending weight where its supposed to be. Everything falls into place as I go...always patience. So, yes, I would rasp thru the sole at the toe, with all confidence of knowing where the bone is and what lies between and reading/obeying the sole along the way. I rehabbed a horse much worse than this. In so much pain....vet not coming for 5 days to xray, started without him. The stringhalt stopped in the first half hour, by day 3, the swaying stopped and the xrays confirmed a ground parallel P3 on day 5. But make no mistake, tender care was needed to heal the soft tissue for the next 6 months, including teeth, weight gain, abscesses uncovered and ulcers...a serious pathology indeed.

I understand the wear, and see it in the quarter horse and why he would be lame if you took those shoes off. If he's tender, then I wonder if all the aspects of a successful barefoot had been done, like development, thrush care, nutrition, staying on top of the trim and having the horse living on the same ground he works on. With a truly developed and balanced hoof, its strong enough to crush rocks, not the other way around and the wear affects phenomenal growth to compensate...good growth from good balanced use, not pathological growth that perpetuates itself because its locked in. A trim alone, does not make a barefoot horse. All these things must be in place for success.

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And you are going to return in a week?? Do you get to charge again? A trim is $40 to $50 each visit??? Good cash grab.

I'm returning at Week 4. Trims are $30. I don't do this for a living. I do it to come alongside the owner who's had it up to ^HERE^ with their farrier. I come in and give them hope that their horse CAN be rehabbed to healthy hoof form & function once more.....

Ask my client who's OTTB was unusable for 2 weeks after every farrier visit. After proper Barefoot trimming, diet & environment modification for 13 months, this mare is now schooling Prelim on the Eventing Circuit BAREFOOT.

Ask my client who's foundered Azteca (12 degrees rotation left, 10 degrees rotation right) that is now sound on almost surfaces (except super sharp rock, naturally) after 6 months of Barefoot trimming and diet modification. Prior to my arrival, she was paying $185 every 6 weeks for shoes.... shoes that did nothing because the practitioner had no clue on how to properly trim to encourage healing by the body, nor a clue on what caused it. This horse was obviously metabolic: fat pads at withers and rump, super easy keeper, etc. We stopped the cause of the founder by putting on a grazing muzzle, adding Remission & changing his feed to low starch/no sugar.

Ask my best friend who's 3 y/o pony was on stilts due to high heels, yet the farrier she had said "that's normal for them gaited ponies." This baby has now developed concavity on all four hooves and is sound on all surfaces.

I could go on and through all 30 clients I have. None of them had good, healthy or properly functioning feet when I was asked to consult on them. Most are works in progress, since we're having to undo years of improper diet & farrier work/shoe damage.

Edited by Chocomare

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Missy, I'm glad you confirmed what I saw on that palomino AQHA!

From my post:

On the foot you posted, I would pull shoes and do some progressive hoof re rehabilitation trims, getting those heels back under the horse, the toe backed up , and work on that negative palmer angle of that dubbed toe

Look how the support of the back of that horse's foot has migrated forward, . Looks like maybe a bit of heel wedging was even attempted, and the toe just dubbed. Won't fix what is wrong in the least!

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The lady moves to the barn and pays $6000 a year board. She is not interested in laying the horse off while it goes bare foot. This is my first shoeing of this horse and bring it as far as I can until the next time 8 weeks away.

That picture was 8 1/2 years ago. the horse is still sound and usefull.

The front before trimming

xelco0.jpg

After the trim but before round the edge and nailing a shoe on

n5s9py.jpg

Edited by DR650

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Weird, I posted a reply, but it seems gone, maybe into the 'Blue Yonder' ?

Certainly the profile of that foot is greatly improved in the bottom pic. Any solar shots?

So, someone else did that shoing job and has been shoing the horse for the last 8 years, up to now?

Hate toe clips, as they exaberate any negative impacts from shoing

When I run an imaginary line along those nail holes, when that foot is shod, then transfer that line to where the nail holes are on that trimmed foot, I have a hard time seeing how toes and heels could be taken down that much, yet the nail holes show not that much was taken off???? Maybe just an illusion from those pics

Of course one is a dorsal shot,and the other is a side view, but the heels really appear long in that first pic!

If ahorse has to keep working, and will wear shoes year round, then I can see arbitrarily trimming the foot by hairline parameters, allowing the horse to move sound in shoes-now rather than later. However,, in my experience that approach has always cost the horse in the end

The foot does look good in that last shot, but without a solar shot, hard to tell the 'real story', as that shod foot looks like it has a good deal of pathology

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Ones a right foot, ones a left....

I know that but I don't keep a record of people's horses and just have a few shots of some of them.

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I know that but I don't keep a record of people's horses and just have a few shots of some of them.

But beyond that, surely not the same trim and shoing cycle???? That is what I found weird, looking at the hoof and the nail holes

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