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Horse has NO frogs!


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#1 BlueRibbonHunter2002

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 10:40 PM

How do you suggest helping a horse with basically no frog? This horse has always grown hoof VERY VERY VERY quickly. To the point that his bars grow so fast that if he goes more than four weeks they grow across his frog. Grows a TON of heel. Horse has chronic issues with thrush as a result.

Owner hasn't been able to get trims done more often than every 10-12 weeks or so. However, owner will be in a position within the next 6 months to a year to move horses and get them farrier care as often as necessary.

Is there anything that can be done in the meantime? Thanks for any input!

PS, please keep the bashing to a minimum. Owner is doing the best they can with what they have to work with. [Wink]

#2 Mudder

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 10:58 PM

To get the frog going you need to stimulate it. So she needs to keep those heels down so the frog can do it's thing. It will help a lot with the thrush problem as well. [Big Grin]

#3 BethanyW

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Posted 17 June 2008 - 11:01 PM

Basically the only way I know to help a horse in this position is to get on top of the trimming.

A good trim will not only take care of the wall length, it will address the bars and take off any bits of the frog that are helping to let that thrush live happily.

In the meantime, I'd have the owner cleaning those feet daily and applying a thrush treatment. There are some great ones to be found here if you search. Making sure that there is dry ground that will let the feet dry out when they need to.

I'd also speak to the owner about trying to find a way to trim those feet more often. 10-12 weeks is a super long time in between. And it's the major contributing factor to the horse's current issues.

#4 BlueRibbonHunter2002

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Posted 18 June 2008 - 07:29 PM

I COMPLETELY agree, I guess I just needed someone to back me up. [Big Grin]

Trims will be MUCH more frequent once the owner has the horse at her home. In addition to that, the horse will be out 24/7 as opposed to stalled most of the time.

Thank you VERY much for the confirmation I needed to help her! [Smile]

#5 DragonsGait

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:01 AM

I just got a horse with the same issue. He has no frog at all. I am putting Tomorrow on his hoof and wrapping. His foot is really really long and the ferrier is coming out to trim. I'd show you a picture but how do you attach one? Keeps asking for an http:???. It's an image not a website. Any suggestions?
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Edited by DragonsGait, 28 February 2012 - 10:22 AM.


#6 Ardent

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:29 AM

Upload it to photobucket (which is free image hosting). Once it is on there, if you hold you cursor over the image you should be able to copy the code that says IMG and paste it here.
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#7 DragonsGait

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:42 AM

Upload it to photobucket (which is free image hosting). Once it is on there, if you hold you cursor over the image you should be able to copy the code that says IMG and paste it here.


Thanks!

#8 This Is It

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:00 AM

Yikes!!! Those frogs are atrophied, and won't correct without proper trimming. At least 2/3 of that foot is extra length and will need to come off. Of course, it has to be gradual. Any major trimming is going to make him sore. Length taken off, and trimmed regularly until proper foot length is reached. You can stimulate the frog to allow it to come back, but not when its 3-4 inches up inside the hoof capsule. That foot needs trimmed, and that horse needs to be out of those high-heels and back where he naturally should be. Its like he's walking in platform shoes!

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#9 DragonsGait

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:08 AM

Thanks! Should I continue wrapping it after it's trimmed? There is this product called Tomorrow which is an antibiotic (see link) Tomorrow

I'm applying it for 9 days total and packing it with cotton then, lining the bottom with a piece of plastic and vet wrap.

After the vet comes, should I just leave him barefoot. Can he walk out in my field or should I continue to pen him in a confined area?

#10 This Is It

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:29 AM

Does he actually have thrush or are you treating with it as a preventative? Honestly, it depends on what the farrier does with the trim, and how aggressive he is as to what you can do with him after. I've pulled shoes on horses that long and trimmed then conservatively and they walked off sound, and that should always be the number 1 goal in my book. I trimmed him every 2-3 weeks for about 4 months before he started looking normal. No matter WHAT comes off of that foot, they should always walk off sound. If he takes off a LOT, then boots and pads are recommended to promote proper movement. Lots of moving will help promote growth and blood flow, and will help heal that foot. Its going to take a while for the foot to be right, but it will happen if you've got a good farrier and you and he keep on top of his trim.

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#11 spanish_walkin_wannabe

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 06:54 PM

Oh. My. Goodness. Those feet are awful aren't they. Yikes.

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#12 Trinity

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:09 PM

Looks like this horse has a very very nasty sulcus infection on top of some loooooooong feet. VERY nasty. See that HUGE fissure back there that looks like it goes wayyyy into the cartilage there? I would probably X ray this foot just to have a good look inside.


I would not allow this foot to be naked on anything but a clean stall right now and treat it as a large open wound. Have you explored that crack to see how deep it goes? This may need vet involvement/antibiotics if it does not get on the healing path quickly. I normally am all for barefoot healing but this might be one Id temporarily keep shod if it is truely painful till the infection is in hand and is sound enough to tolerate stimulation. It really depends tho.
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#13 ..::Felda::..

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:11 PM

I'd stop by a hardware store and buy some 1" foam wall insulation and duct tape in case this horse is crippled after getting an appropriate trim. He's going to need to be comfortable. I have to vouch for No Thrush hoof powder here. By far, in wetland environment, it is best thing since sliced bread on thrush.
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#14 ..::Felda::..

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:15 PM




I normally am all for barefoot healing but this might be one Id temporarily keep shod if it is truely painful till the infection is in hand and is sound enough to tolerate stimulation. It really depends tho.



Keeping him in a set of shoes for a few more cycles would be a very good suggestion here.
Is it possible to stay on topic to what the thread is about? Or has the population become so distracted it must resort to addressing every little allusion thus changing the direction of this thread and losing the topic? Have we lost the ability to recognize this problem and just start a new topic if the oppportunity arises? Please do so now if you feel so inclined to seek attention.


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#15 Smilie

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:45 PM

I would rather get this horse trimmed and use hoof boots and pads, while also treating the thrush, and get him moving!
How did his feet ever get this long? I assume his last shoing wasn't 6 months ago, as is shoes are not over grown to the extent to suggest that, but rather that the farrier has let that hoof just get longer over time
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#16 ..::Felda::..

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:50 PM

I'm wondering if this horse is a gaited horse? I know some folks down here who shoe for this because they feel it helps the horse gait better, particularly the flat shod TWH show folks who won't use weight packages, but do grow the foot long like this. At least when this horse is trimmed right, he'll still have a heel.
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#17 Trinity

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:03 PM

I am worried that padding or anything at all touching and certainly pressing on that frog right now will cause great pain. It may not be able to tolerate any stimulation for now and actually need the shoe till the infection is dealt with and it can put out some growth and protection for the internal structures. I feel an infection pocket in there deeply from the looks of things and it feels like raw and completely unprotected internal structure. I might change my mind seeing the horse in person but This is my gut feeling from here and its screaming at me.


ETA, I am curious how far those heels move separately of each other. I feel no connection between them from that one pict. Anything less than a metal shoe in this case might cause a broken coffin bone with a bad step and too much flex heel to heel due to the lack of connection and strength back there...IDK....Wish i could see them in person....

Pain from padding can happen and the boots will hold moisture too much for this IMO till the raw structure is more covered and healed. I vote shoe for now most likely to allow airflow and treatment for a setting or two. JMO tho. You guys know Im usually All about barefoot or at least rubber shoes, but when i put myself in those hooves, I feel intense raw pain when I think about anything other than a metal shoe at this time. First time ever for me on here and in real life. I MIGHT go for some vettec fill, CS or the soft version leaving the frogs open for daily treatment for now.

Edited by Trinity, 28 February 2012 - 10:06 PM.

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#18 Smilie

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:53 PM

Well, if shod, certainly not by the same farrier!
If ever a hooves were a poster boy for how not to allow feet to grow, these certainly are great examples!
If gaited people truly shoe their horses this way for gaiting, then the horse would be much better off shod with correctly trimmed feet and shoes with built up pads! I am amazed if they stay sound, for it goes against every principle for promoting soundness in horses, and I don't care if the horse is gaited or not!
I would still prefer trimming the foot correctly , and then using two pads, with the second pad having the frog area cut out
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#19 ..::Felda::..

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:26 PM

Misguided people shoe their gaited horses like this. They're looking for that high knee action.
Is it possible to stay on topic to what the thread is about? Or has the population become so distracted it must resort to addressing every little allusion thus changing the direction of this thread and losing the topic? Have we lost the ability to recognize this problem and just start a new topic if the oppportunity arises? Please do so now if you feel so inclined to seek attention.


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#20 Smilie

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 06:59 PM

Misguided people shoe their gaited horses like this. They're looking for that high knee action.


All I can say is 'sad' The Chinesse have learned not to bind the feet of their women, and maybe 'we' can learn to not destroy the feet of horses through mis guided hoof parameters that do nothing for the soundness of the horse, but attempt to enhance the gait of a horse to a human value level
The soring of TW is a great example, as is the practice of shoing race horses on purpose ,with a long toe, hoping to increase breakover, thus stride-thus speed
Raising attractive , athletic Appaloosas, equally at home in the show ring and on the open trails
Cody Chrome Supreme member of the breed( superiors in trail,halter western pleasure hunter under saddle )
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A New Dimension three year old filly presently working with
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Frankie hubby's senior trail horse
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Dont Skip The Cadence by don't Skip This chip-three year old in training Sold
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#21 DragonsGait

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 01:57 PM

Sorry guys. I don't have access to a computer until I get to work. Okay, I've been using tomorrow on his hoof everyday. The day after that picture, his frog was swollen. Now I know that frogs don't grow in 1 day so I assumed it was highly infected. My farrier did a beautiful job on trimming his feet and now I'm soaking it in ebsom salt, bedadine and icthomol?? Something like that. I will add photos soon.

#22 DragonsGait

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 01:58 PM

FYI: This horse is not gaited. He is an appendix.

#23 ..::Felda::..

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:03 PM

Gaited or not, the hoof work was pure wrong. Good to head the horse saw the farrier. Why soak in epsom salts and betadine? Are you applying icthamol after soaking? Icthamol is used for pulling infection out, but best results are seen when applied to wounds not feet. If you're having problems with infection in the feet, I'd look for one of those animal poultice pads they make specifically for feet and then wrap with vet wrap. They are very effective in providing padding and pulling out infection from icky frogs.
Is it possible to stay on topic to what the thread is about? Or has the population become so distracted it must resort to addressing every little allusion thus changing the direction of this thread and losing the topic? Have we lost the ability to recognize this problem and just start a new topic if the oppportunity arises? Please do so now if you feel so inclined to seek attention.


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#24 DragonsGait

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:10 PM

Gaited or not, the hoof work was pure wrong. Good to head the horse saw the farrier. Why soak in epsom salts and betadine? Are you applying icthamol after soaking? Icthamol is used for pulling infection out, but best results are seen when applied to wounds not feet. If you're having problems with infection in the feet, I'd look for one of those animal poultice pads they make specifically for feet and then wrap with vet wrap. They are very effective in providing padding and pulling out infection from icky frogs.


The Ferrier suggested I do that. He said to put the echthomol on first, then sprinkle some salts on it, then soak his foot. I've been putting in a bucket and he just stands there for 20 minutes. He's such a good horse.

#25 ..::Felda::..

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:30 PM

That's backwards from my point of view, but if it works, use it. I wish my horse would stand in a bucket like that.
Is it possible to stay on topic to what the thread is about? Or has the population become so distracted it must resort to addressing every little allusion thus changing the direction of this thread and losing the topic? Have we lost the ability to recognize this problem and just start a new topic if the oppportunity arises? Please do so now if you feel so inclined to seek attention.


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#26 journeysgirl

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:07 PM

Sorry guys. I don't have access to a computer until I get to work. Okay, I've been using tomorrow on his hoof everyday. The day after that picture, his frog was swollen. Now I know that frogs don't grow in 1 day so I assumed it was highly infected. My farrier did a beautiful job on trimming his feet and now I'm soaking it in ebsom salt, bedadine and icthomol?? Something like that. I will add photos soon.


Did you get pics of the after? I'm curious to see what the farrier did.

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#27 DragonsGait

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:06 PM

Well, here are the after photos. Judge for yourself. He's not in pain and he has a spark in his eyes. Feet are cleaned everyday. Frog is slowly coming back and the farrier came today for another trim.


<a href="http://s1050.photobu...eandAfter-2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1050.photobu...eandAfter-2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s1050.photobu...eandAfter-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1050.photobu...eandAfter-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Edited by DragonsGait, 18 April 2012 - 01:58 PM.


#28 Serah Rose

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 01:31 PM

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#29 DragonsGait

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:00 PM

Serah Rose: Thanks for posting my pictures!



#30 Serah Rose

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:06 PM

welcome :) I'm no good at critiquing stuff...but I can at least help make pics show up! lol
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