Pigeon Fever In Colorado Options

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

I'm thought I was so lucky, earlier this year we had an outbreak of pigeon fever in mid northwest colorado. My barn had 3 horses infected with it and they all managed to recover decently since then. Well, it reappeared. In my horse. My barn owners didn't think it was pigeon fever, they said it never looked like that before. I called up my vet and she says there's no point in her coming out, diagnosis over the phone and told me what to do. I haven't seen any previous topics following any cases with photos, so i'm going to keep pictures up in mine.

I discovered the lump 10/13/09. Sofar there's only one, it's hard. No heat, like a ball floating just under her skin.

[Paws]

What exactly is pigeon fever?

[daisysmom]

I too managed to dodge it too all summer. I've now had 2 cases in one week. Different herds with at least 1/8 mile between them. The mare has me stumped as it initially involved the chest and most of the neck. The swelling mostly went down before it started to drain and now it drains painfully slow but there is no pocket to flush out. I'm thinking she also had a hemotoma from a kick at the same time the PF showed up.

[mrs]

I too managed to dodge it too all summer. I've now had 2 cases in one week. Different herds with at least 1/8 mile between them. The mare has me stumped as it initially involved the chest and most of the neck. The swelling mostly went down before it started to drain and now it drains painfully slow but there is no pocket to flush out. I'm thinking she also had a hemotoma from a kick at the same time the PF showed up.

Note to self: Don't ride at Daisy's moms for awhile. I guess it's a good thing I don't get the truck this week while my husband is gone hunting. I'll be stuck wandering the roads of Frederick.

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

Paws ~ Pigeon Fever is a bacterial infection that lives in the ground and is suppose to only exist in California/Texas. I don't know to much about it other then what the internet all over has told me.

Daisysmom ~ I knew my horse would get it. She gets everything. Not once has she been healthy this year. Weather her feet are crumbling, she's got mud fever/scratches, ulcers, pregnant (which I didn't breed her), bad sunburn, massive fly problems, and now this. What makes it horrible is I live up in the Mountains and she's boarded in the flat lands. I literally am unable to get down there every day to take care of her. Not only gas prices but ice in the canyon and work!

Current update:
My barn owners are not being helpful at all. And say "oh well" that I'm not going to be able to keep the ruptured bump clean because I am unable to get down there while the sun is up (the stables are only open when the sun's up. No lighting) every day. That or i'm battling ice.
A couple of weeks ago she had a line down her belly of fly bites/attacks that was actually open and actively bleeding. I'm blaming those.
Today the bump is harder, a bit larger, and slightly less round.
I posted her up for sale on dreamhorse and craigstlist today too. Being unable to take care of her when she needs it is a serious set back and I'm willing to sell her to someone who can take care of her and get her off of this swampland she's being boarded on.

Picture of the bump:


Links to pictures of her:
today: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/Hel...es/IMG_8971.jpg
early last winter: http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1193/img1646g.jpg

[reinnin4fun]

Years ago I had a horse with Pigeon fever, the vet drained the abcess and she healed fine, I made a makeshift 'bra' to cover the wound with a light sheet and she was on antibiotics for about 10 days, she healed just fine and because I had the vet drain the abcess at the clinic she was less contagious to other horses.

Note if you sell this horse you may not be able to get a health certificate if she crosses state lines, as it is a contagious disease, I think you'd be better to let it heal then to sell her.

PS pigeon fever is common in many areas, as far north as North Dakota, it occurs in dry seasons more than wet.

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

rennin4fun ~ My vet doesn't see the point in coming out -_-; plus I don't have a trailer so getting her to the clinic is a bit of a conundrum. Also not sure what kind of sheet this is, but my barn is a bit weary of even using flymasks. (as in, they're not to keen on it, but we do it anyway)... so depending on the sheet that might just be out of the question. Afterall a sheet would solve her sunburn issues but I can't put on on her.

I hope to not sell her over state lines, and I'd be disclosing all the information about her to the potential buyer. I don't understand how people can sell animals and forget big details like, you know. Being pregnant. "This horse is not in foal" in the add, and yet four months later there's a stillborn five month old foal on the ground. Besides that, the horse economy in my area is kind of crap. So having her listed doesn't mean she's going to sell any time soon, i'd rather sell her healthy then sick anyway. But I can't afford a horse who's never 100% because the area she's kept is a bacterial breeding ground.
And about where you can find it-ahh, i heard it was just in those areas. Everywhere else is like a freak case. Where I live, this summer it was as common as flys. "oh you got it to? cool" -_-

[mrs]

Not once has she been healthy this year. Weather her feet are crumbling, she's got mud fever/scratches, ulcers, pregnant (which I didn't breed her), bad sunburn, massive fly problems, and now this. ...

Besides that, the horse economy in my area is kind of crap. So having her listed doesn't mean she's going to sell any time soon, i'd rather sell her healthy then sick anyway.

I'm not sure exactly where in Colorado you are however I'm finding that the horse market is a little bit stunted but over all alive and well on the front range.

Is there a reason that you don't move her to a new boarding facility if your convinced that's the source of your problems? Well, I wouldn't right now but after the PF goes away?

Sorry you're having such problems with your mare. I hope this wasn't your first horse!!!

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

I'm not sure exactly where in Colorado you are however I'm finding that the horse market is a little bit stunted but over all alive and well on the front range.

Is there a reason that you don't move her to a new boarding facility if your convinced that's the source of your problems? Well, I wouldn't right now but after the PF goes away?

Sorry you're having such problems with your mare. I hope this wasn't your first horse!!!

I'm up in Estes Park. Horse is in the Carter Lake area. Moving her only means moving her further away. Up here there's one stable which is incredibly picky and charges well over my monthly income. I tried to move there earlier after working something out - which kind of got me into a bad situation at my barn. (hey i'm moving, five days before i'm gone i'm no longer moving...and frantic to stay there). That's nice that it's moving in some places, hasn't budged for me in the past.
after the PF goes away i'd reconsider moving her. But only closer, all the good places are out by ft collins-thus further away.

This is actually my first horse. I co-owned one afew years back but was more of the person to tell the real owner when to vet her, how to groom her, ect ect. That owner abandoned the horse at a boarding facility earlier this year (after ditching me).

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

Today. 10/18/09
around 9 in the morning.

Still very hard, grew a bit. Her fur is getting very static. I feel a bit bad since it's 80 outside today. Not much we can do when winter is returning soon.

Rode, she did well. Kandy wasn't lame today. Not much else to update on.

[NoTimeToDance]

I too dealt with PF this summer with my pony. Vet was out three times to lance the areas on his chest. Vet's instructions to me was to apply heat to help it surface. It would start off hard and as the time came for the vet to lance it the hair would have fallen off and the area would be very soft. After he lanced it his instructions were to keep the area clean by flushing it out two to three times a day and to apply flies off and a wound cream around wound. It seemed when one was ready to be lanced another would surface. It has been about 3 months since the last one and I am crossing my fingers my little guy is done with it. I also have two other horses that are stalled next to him and they never got PF.

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

Nice to hear about the other two not getting it. I hope one is all she gets...
Vet and barn owner told me there's no point to lance it. It'll pop when it's ready? I can't clean 2/3 times a day, so once every couple and lots of swat should hopefully manage...

[CoolRabbit]

I REALLY recommend you have a vet come out. You should not be lancing it yourself. This can be potentially serious, and it is a horse owner's responsibility to take care if something like this happens. I also do not think selling her should even be an option right now. Selling a horse with a highly contagious disease is wrong...this does NOT need to be spread to other barns!

Here is some good information:
Pigeon Fever - Colorado

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

I would not let her LEAVE my barn until she's healthy. I'm not lancing it myself. Vet won't come out, or if she does she says there's nothing she can do. bump is to hard.
Barn refuses to do anything special about it, they didn't even warn the other boarders.
I've read that website before. Thanks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Update today, swelling is less obvious. Sinking slightly but overall has a larger in width appearance. Kandy's attitude is normal. bump not showing signs of tenderness today.

[CoolRabbit]

If your vet refuses to come out, then call another one. I find it hard to believe a vet refuses to come out even if you asked...especially for something as contagious and hard to heal as Pigeon Fever.

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

She said there's no point, if i really wanted she could come out. Poke it, and tell me that I wasted my money calling her out.

My BO, nor my barn, is the most sanitary place i've ever been. trust me, i'm doing what I can and what's in my budget. My work place burnt down so i'm even more tight on my cash. if the vet doesn't want to come, i'm not gonna make her.

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

Bump is getting soft... winter's here as of tonight so I'm hoping it holds off from bursting.

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

Still nothing really. Her chest is still soft at the head.. Think of a sunny side up egg.

new horse at the barn is tormenting my mare :/

[RixKatToy]

If your vet refuses to come out, then call another one. I find it hard to believe a vet refuses to come out even if you asked...especially for something as contagious and hard to heal as Pigeon Fever.

Actually, vets are split right down the middle as to whether it's "highly" contagious or not. We had the pony at UC Davis earlier this year for unresolved colic-y type issues. His pen backs up to one of the horses at our place that had PF. Our regular vet was concerned about internal PF because he was nose to abscess to the one with the outbreak. Davis basically poo-poo'd the whole idea. Said they'd never seen a case from that and said there was no need to even move Wallace away from the horse with the active PF.

There's 38 horses at our place. Only the 1 has it, he is not and never has been in isolation, and this is his 3rd reoccurance of it.

They're either going to get it or not. It's pretty much a flip of the coin.

This post has been edited by RixKatToy: Oct 26 2009, 06:16 PM

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

RixKatToy ~ so i've begun to notice. There were five horses at our... 60ish horse barn. (30 are boarded, 30 are the owners). 5 of the owners caught it. My mare was the only one being boarded that got it. :/

[Topaz]

howdy Hisoka-

My 5 month old filly has pigeon fever on her neck, we had the same problem with the vet not coming out to lance it, because the scar tissue that is circling the abscesses was too hard. adding heat really helped alot. i used hot water and paper towels, and i held it on the mass for a few minutes at a time, and kept dunking the towel in the hot water. the only time pigeon fever is contagious is when it ruptures. if flies can get into the pus and nasty stuff, then goes and bites another horse, theres a good chance its going to spread the infection. and what ive been having to do, they finally lanced my filly's neck, i could only clean it out once a day and give her the antibiotics. (we used Uni prem or w.e its called, i can never pronounce it, or spell it)
Honestly, a majority of horses have really strong immune systems. my filly was around 30 horses for a week before the vet told us to quaruntine her, and none of the horses have gotten PF.
when you can, add heat!

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

Topaz ~ thanks a bunch for that advice. The only problem is I live 30-45 minutes away on a good day and my barn doesn't have anything to heat water with! Last year I carted boiling water down to her that was mildly warm by time we arrived. So I'm really not sure how much I'm going to be able to do that. But I will try! it's always worth a shot IMO. The tissue is getting soft which is really nice, but the other problem is; I'm leaving in a couple of weeks!! I'm really hoping it doesn't burst until I come back and can tend to it. But at the same time I'd love to get it over and done with.

How long would you say it takes to heal once it's been lanced?

~~~~~~~
My newest picture (taken today).

[dc848704]

We had a huge outbreak of Pigeon Fever in my area last year. I'd say about 25 horses that I know of, on my road, caught it. All 6 of one friends horses, and 1 horse at another friends house. I was very fortunate and neither of my horses got it.

They were instructed by the vet to hot compact it twice a day, that would help bring the absess to a head, it would become hot, the hair would fall out, and then they took the horses in to be lanced (it may pop on its own). It was projectile puss, no joke, the vet assistant stood in front of the horse with a 5 gallon bucket.

If you can't get down there to care for the horse, the infection could spread, it will also affect the mammary glands or sheath.

Please remember to change out of all your clothes, boots, gloves and anything before coming in contact with any other horse, or before going to the feed store, etc. Once the absess pops, it will drain, and the bacteria can live in the ground for an amount of time, and be pickep up by flies and spread to other horses. I am surprised that your riding her, my friends mare could barely walk.

Don't even try to sell, do whatever you can to get this healed. Good luck.

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

dc848704 ~ i'm aware i should be able to get to her every day. But unless I'd like to end up upsidown in a river or smashed into a rock cliff it's impossible. I've been keeping my eye out for those mutliple use hot packs you can buy for hiking stuff. But no luck (at least in my budget). the hair's already falling out so that's good.
PF is a serious hit and miss, it's already been mentioned.

[RixKatToy]

Didn't I post a link to the stuff we've been using on this thread? Must've been the other one. Anyway, this is what we use for heat

http://www.thermacare.com/products-back-hip.aspx

sure beats messing with rags and hot water!! Plus they're sticky so they stay attached.

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

Ooh hey cool! that's awesome :3 I wouldn't have thought to use that.

On another note, vet's coming out tomorrow to lance it. Fingers crossed two feet of snow DOESN'T fall tonight like it's suppose to...

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

Whelp, hoping to reschedule the appointment till after this storm is passed. It's dumped a good four or so inches in the few hours it's been falling. Overnight and half way through tomorrow is going to make it almost impossible to get down the canyon. That, and there are travel warnings up...
Well darn, i was hoping it'd miss us. Maybe friday? Storm should be over then...


Edit...

Next Wednesday!

This post has been edited by Hisoka Kurosaki: Oct 28 2009, 10:37 AM

[dc848704]

I was just passing on what I remember them having to do, and they still ended up with multiple absesses'.

What about using those "hothands" hand warmers for when you can get there? Hopefully you'll be able to make it after all this snow your talking about! I wish we had snow where I'm at....we only get it a couple times a year.

[Hisoka Kurosaki]

funny sad thing is, the only place i KNEW you could get those hand warmer things is now burnt down. Otherwise I know you can buy it down the canyon but at the moment it's a bit difficult to get down there. Over a foot of snow and all. XD

[SilverCharm]

We had a horse in our barn that at first they thought it had Pigeon Fever and turned out it had a splinter in its chest that got infected.

Sorry about your work burning down. I heard about it on the news and was just in Estes Park days before it happened.

Good luck!