Anyone Ever Use Ducolax Stool Softener ? Options

[SST]

This morning I went to feed and then ride only to find my gelding on the ground colicing . Took care of that he's fine now .
I am not going to feed him till tomorrow . We dont have metamucil for fiber but I have ducolax stool softener . I am considering adding a human adult dose to his partial feeding tomorrow . I know it is used in humans to loosen up our impactions . He seems slright now and shows no signs but I want to make sure .
Its still warm here and he is drinking and grazing . I think he ate something that didnt agree with him.

[ozland]

Add salt instead. A horse needs WATER to keep from impacting. They get PLENTY of fiber in hay and grass.

[RixKatToy]

You're in Florida, yes? Is your horse on sand? He might be sand colicing. Have you tested his poop for sand? Take a few apples and put them in a zip lock, glove or jar with some water, shake it up and let hang or stand. You will see the sand particles sink to the bottom. According to my vet a 1/4 inch of sand in the fingers of a full sleeved glove is about a bucket full in the gut.

Do NOT use Ducolax.


In any event if I found my horse on the ground colicing I'd have the vet out.

[SST]

Yes I am in cnetral Fl.
Iam doing the sand test now. I put 2 or 3 nuggets in a mason jar with water . Still waiting for it to settle.
I researched colic a lot last year. What I concluded was if you get sand in the test ,it's good cause that means he is passing sand. If you dont ,cause all horses that graze get sand , means either the sand is impacting or you have live on a rock .
If the horses lips touch the ground , he gets sand especially here .
The grass is thick here still , you can put you hand in the grass and not touch sand , but sometimes they pull up grass roots and all.
Also metamucil was reccomended to help prevent sand colic. Also mineral oil , tried and true method has been proven not to work ,it just slides past the sand. doesnt move it out.
According to U of FL. equine research , they said if you move the horse out within the first 30 min of onset , he can push it out when passing gas . I fhave done this before. I saw he was coming on so I moved him out. He passed gas and material . Was fine after that. Our other horse has zero problems he could eat concrete and pass it.

[RixKatToy]

Yes I am in cnetral Fl.
Iam doing the sand test now. I put 2 or 3 nuggets in a mason jar with water . Still waiting for it to settle.
I researched colic a lot last year. What I concluded was if you get sand in the test ,it's good cause that means he is passing sand. If you dont ,cause all horses that graze get sand , means either the sand is impacting or you have live on a rock .
If the horses lips touch the ground , he gets sand especially here .
The grass is thick here still , you can put you hand in the grass and not touch sand , but sometimes they pull up grass roots and all.
Also metamucil was reccomended to help prevent sand colic. Also mineral oil , tried and true method has been proven not to work ,it just slides past the sand. doesnt move it out.
According to U of FL. equine research , they said if you move the horse out within the first 30 min of onset , he can push it out when passing gas . I fhave done this before. I saw he was coming on so I moved him out. He passed gas and material . Was fine after that. Our other horse has zero problems he could eat concrete and pass it.

My horses too live on sand so I'm familiar with sand colic. My husbands old toothless gelding coliced HARD after we first got him. He was like a Hoover thru the sand looking for alfalfa flowers and was ingesting quite a bit of sand. My vet put him on double doses of psyllium along with a bucket of beet pulp twice a day for a month to move the sand thru. It worked. We changed his diet to one that suited a toothless guy and fed him on rubber mats and never had a problem again.

The 2 I have now both are fed on rubber mats to lower the risk of ingesting sand, a regular feeding of psyllium and beetpulp (along with their regular hay & supplements) and we've been fortunate to not have had a sand colic with either of them in 5 or 6 years.

[corrupt_corpse66...]

So let me get this right...
You found your horse on the ground colicing, and you didnt call the vet. You dont have any metamucil and don't want to run to walmart to spend the $7 on a jar of it, but you have ducolax and want to give him an adult dose of it?

Ducolax is not a stool softener, it is a full blown laxative. I know this because I had a conversation with my obgyn about it the other day, asking if I could take it because im pregnant and backed up. The answer was no, because it can cause very very bad cramping, and can cause women to start contractions. Prior to becoming pregnant I would occasionally take it, and it did cause the bad cramps.
You do not want your horse who just coliced to have those kinds of cramps, he'll be back down again in no time.

I do know my vet has recommended giving milk of magnesia and banamine for a colic if it was going to be a bit before they got out. Last year when my mare coliced it took 4 hours for her to get there from an emergency surgery, and they did help.

If you live in the area where theres a lot of sand year round, get rubber matts to feed on, and feed generic Metamucil year round.

[cvm2002]

I sure wish I could diagnose the cause of colic this easily.

[SST]

Luclily we keep a supply of bantamine . When he colics he gets it . You can set a watch by the effect . In 15 mins after injection he settles . After close obseravtion , the impaction be it gas or sand seems to pass. I dont call the vet for every colic , no one in this area does. Unless it fails to clear. It has never failed to clear yet. I have been adding salt and soaking hay so far ,so good. Next week I will be adding oils to his feed. I figure he gets enough fiber from the hay and graze.
Metamucil is my next step but I dont know the dose.
My fear is that he colices when noone is here to catch it. Hopefully; my more aggressive intervention will prevent it.

To add to this , I will be testing for hypp , have read that some symptoms are often mistaken as colic.This will happen very soon.

[ozland]

The usual is one cup added to the feed daily for one week of each month. That is NOT twice a day.

[SST]

thanks

[BethanyW]

I guess my question is why is this horse colicing enough that you seem to have a system down for it?

If that's not the case I retract my question, but from the tone of your second to last post it seems like this is becoming a semi-regular occurrence.

If it is I'd have that investigated.

[Hibiscus]

I'd be scared ****less to be giving Banamine as often as you are implying. PLEASE tell me you are giving it orally or IV (if you know how to give a proper IV injection of course).

[SST]

I can see where my writing skills hahah or lack of ,lead you to believe it's a frequent thing .
There are two horses in my area that tend to colic at the first cold snap . So he will colic once a year for sure , maybe twice .
So many horses colic and I have studied this immensely . As previous stated and as you all know , once things start to dry and cool , he starts drinking less. Add hay and browse . There you have it , I relate it to eating a lot of hmmmmm shredded wheat cereal dry without milk , except I am sure his pains at ten times worse than mine.
I also learned that bantamine can be injected IV and intrmuscular and orally. So nope he doesnt get loaded on the stuff as I made it sound cause I expect it ,like Christmas, dont know when . I am prepared for it.
He is passing sand but not much at all not as much as I antacipated . It's a good sign cause my other horse is apssing sand to . It's good because if the sand wasnt passing then it would be building up. In my research through many venues it was determined that all horses take up sand . When they dont pass it it becomes an issue. I do believe I have the cold snap colic issue taken care of , knock on wood.
This colic last week I think was something else . I believe he ate something that didnt agree with him.
We had or cold snap and he is fine , I fed up this morning , prior to that , he was stomping running playing bucking like he was a colt. I fed his usual feed , with salt added THANKS OZLAND , soaked his hay , he is doing great. Ill be riding as soon as I finish eating.

I watched someone administer bantamine into a mucsle ,cause she couldnt find a vein ,winter fuzz . I was a little surprised but it wasnt my horse wasnt my call . The reaction time was the same as I/V injection. NO knotts no hematoma nothing . Just the exact same reaction from the horse.It worked great.

[SST]

to add to my overwirting , his hay is off the ground and as a precaution since he has a lot of good grass cover they dont like to eat, I move his hay holder and feed bowl around , cause he will paw the ground while eating and make a sand pit if I dont move it. So along with everything else , he will always eat on grass ,not sand.
Ducolax is definately off the table, heCK I dont think I would use it should the need arise . Anyone who wants cramps RAISE YOUR HANDS!!!!

[ozland]

You are quite welcome. And FYI, it does happen often that injectible Banamine going muscular will cause HUGE abcesses. Not always, but often enough to want to be cautious with it. I use the paste, if anything. Had to throw away the last tube and get a new one last month. Stuff was 4 years old and never used.

[SST]

I had an interesting conversation with a breeder a local qh breeder . About a lot of things . I said I was going to ride last Sun. but I found my gelding on the ground . You all know that part of the story. Her first responce right off the bat was , "it's weather related" she said she had two mares that colic when cold fronts approach.
when she was in Palm Beach , a paint horse would colic everytime a hurricane approached.
I was thinking "OKKEE DOKEE , I know why the colic I want to prevent it" before I said it she said what I was told before , fluid fluid fluid make him drink, add salt , wet the hay.

She also said that bantaimine can be adminstered in the muscle and could abcess but if you admininster it slowly into the muscle or in two different places it's not to common. Just be slow with it. She shaves the winter coat to find a vein though , its preferred.

[Crazy-appy_event...]

banamine can cause very nasty reactions in the muscle by causing severe muscle necrosis which can lead to abscesss as well as a high risk of clostridial infections due to injection site contamination. Always use it IV if you have the skills to.
Stimulating gut motility which is what buscopan, the active ingredient of ducolax, dose is contraindicated if you don't know what the cause of the colic is, and you can't do that from just watching the horse. If we could it would certainly make my schooling a heck of a lot easier!!!( I can wish right?) If the horse has an impaction, torsion, or strangulating lipoma causing the colic this drug can make it worse if given orally!! the enema version targets the distal colopn so other then cause your horse to take a nice poop of whatever is left in that distal colon, it will do little to help anything further up where problems are more likely to be occuring. The banamine isn't a cure, it is symptom relief of the pain and nothing more. it is simply a tide over till the vet can get there to do a full examination and prevent the horse from making the situation worse due to rolling, etc.
colic= at least call your vet so they know there is a situation they may be needed with, it will help make sure they can get there all the more quickly when you really do need them there.

[Hibiscus]

I had an interesting conversation with a breeder a local qh breeder . About a lot of things . I said I was going to ride last Sun. but I found my gelding on the ground . You all know that part of the story. Her first responce right off the bat was , "it's weather related" she said she had two mares that colic when cold fronts approach.
when she was in Palm Beach , a paint horse would colic everytime a hurricane approached.
I was thinking "OKKEE DOKEE , I know why the colic I want to prevent it" before I said it she said what I was told before , fluid fluid fluid make him drink, add salt , wet the hay.

She also said that bantaimine can be adminstered in the muscle and could abcess but if you admininster it slowly into the muscle or in two different places it's not to common. Just be slow with it. She shaves the winter coat to find a vein though , its preferred.

I personally wouldn't be listening to a BREEDER telling you Banamine is okay to give IM. It causes Clostridial Myonecrosis. Nasty, nasty stuff. Banamine should NEVER be given IM, even though it says it can be done on the packaging.


These are all from IM Banamine. Yes, graphic, but you need to be educated about the possible consequences before this happens to your horse.

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=6466
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/f...317&start=1
Scroll down about half-way to see more pictures.

[ozland]

Not all breeders are stupid, you know. That's why I stick to the paste variety.

[Hibiscus]

Not all breeders are stupid, you know. That's why I stick to the paste variety.

Of course not, Oz. She just made it sound like this particular breeder was giving out medical advice and she was listening to it as if it were veterinary advice. I know quite a few intelligent breeders, not all in real-life. I was just referring to the fact that she was listening to the breeder as if the breeder were a vet. No offence meant at all.

[ozland]

I know, not offended. Just pointing that out.

[cvm2002]

Stimulating gut motility which is what buscopan, the active ingredient of ducolax, .

Incorrect. Buscopan actually SLOWS the gut, and is an anti-spasmodic which is why its indicated for gas colic. Active ingredient is n-butylscopolammonium bromide.

Active ingredient of dulcolax is docusate sodium, which is an osmotic cathartic with or without bisacodyl which is a stimulant laxative. Very different products!!!

[SST]

uh hum " HE" lol
Is that from an injection site ?wow

[Hibiscus]

uh hum " HE" lol
Is that from an injection site ?wow

I'm sorry about the mix-up. I'm so used to this being a women-dominated board that I automatically assume that a member is a woman unless the signature shows other was.

Yes, that is from a banamine injection site. It was one of the LEAST graphic photos I could find. The others were much, much worse. Why risk it? Either have you vet teach you the proper way to give banamine IV or dose the injectable medicine in the mouth like a dewormer. It always makes me cringe to hear about or see people giving banamine IM. Better safe than sorry.

[SST]

I can administer I/V and have . I have seen it done intermuscular w/o problems . TILL NOW!!!! my gosh ,did that horse live? Could it recover?
The best way I find a vein is buy wetting the winter coat enough to expose a vein ,problem with that is , when it's cold out it's hard to find the veins.
My vet taught me where to inject by using my hand as a tool to find the vein . I tried that once. I must have missed something cause everytime I'd check to make sure I was in a vein, I got nothing. I dont like hit or miss.
I am gonna show that picture, if it's ok.
During hot months it's easy to find veins. You never miss.

As much as some women would like to cut me , I still gottem .

[ozland]

Just hang on to em, guy!

[Crazy-appy_event...]

yikes, didn't mean to get my trade and chemical names all mixed up, this is what happens when they give us 9 final exams in 2 weeks.

Buscopan ( aka hyoscine butylbromide) decreases gut motility is the new antispasmodic in Canada, don't know how long you guys have had it but its fairly novel up here.
Dulcolax (aka bisacodyl) is the laxative, and can increase gut motility via a cholinergic effect.
Both would be useful then for very different causes of colic. Be it spasmodic vs. impaction

How do they ever expect us to remember all this?!? 300 drugs to know by next friday alone!! Guess that why they make us write the NAVLE right?

On a side note: the reaction in the photo isn't due to muscle necrosis directly due to the chemical, but rather is usually from a clostridial myositis due to contamination during the injection. I saw a case where the horse was injected into the gluteal muscle and ended up with clostridial myositis. The bacteria is an anaerobe so one of the methods of treatment is to get as much oxygen into the muscle tissue is possible. The filleted foot long incisions in the horses skin from with withers all the way down the affected hind leg. Looked horrible and seemed archaic but it saved the horses life. That is likely what they were trying to acheive in this photo... can't say for sure though.

[Hibiscus]

It says in the article (on thehorse.com) that the horse received Banamine IM and the tissue died and sloughed off. On the other side of the neck the horse did receive the incisions:

Here's another picture of the incisions on a different horse with clostridial myonecrosis from a Banamine injection:
http://board.horsechannel.com/Uploads/Imag...6-9e98-405e.jpg
This one is a link because it is extremely graphic. Just thought I would throw it up here, too. Scary stuff. Good luck with your exams!

[SST]

I went to the banamine .com website. got in contact with Chris Cochran at intervet .com . I asked about the I/M abcesses .
The response was that Banamine is safe for I/M and I/v in horses. On rare occasions I/M has resulted in clostridial infections thought to be from surface bacteria being carried deep into the muscle tissue by the needle . It is listed under adverse reactions.
I asked a human medical worker about this . She said there is always a higher risk of abcess(?) in any IM injection be it human or animal .

If it was a pressing situation and I couldnt find a vein , sterilize the site and inject I/M. I would do it to myself if I had to so I would as a last option do it to my horse .

I am pleased to anounce that things are going great . Had our cold fronts without incident .

[cvm2002]

And because a drug company says its safe it must be, right? And everything you read on the Internet is the truth.

Why even risk it when you can give the product orally?