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Arabian Stallion Injures Handler At Scottsdale


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#1 Mo's Mom

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 09:40 AM

On FUGLY today they are talking about the incident. Does anyone know more? They are holding the current handler blameless. He has been released from the hospital with a concussion and skull fracture. angel3.gif I love the Arabs, smart, sensitive, beautiful horses. I would love to hear more, or they are hoping someone got video. People can't believe that with all the people watching and taking video, that one hasn't been found that shows what happened. confused0024.gif
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#2 Tazzin

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 10:31 AM

If you go over to ABN, there are posters there that actually saw the incident. I sure wish I had, I missed it by several minutes.
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#3 SpottedTApps

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 11:06 AM

OK, I did a fair amount of research on this yesterday (aka, followed the gossip around the interwebs) and have formed my own conclusion.

This was not a "vicious attack." I believe the horse was jazzed up and out of control/spooked. I know dang sure that if I'm leading a young horse of mine and something gets it spooked and it jumps... unfortunately they quite often come toward me. We work hard to teach them respect to stay off of us as humans, but instinct can kick in.

I think this horse, already being asked to run and act like an idiot, in idiot surroundings where people scream and wave things at him trying to get him to act like an idiot, ran/jumped to his handler for protection. I don't think he was focused on anything, much less his handler. The handler got "run over" not attacked, by running in front of the animal with his back to him. The animal then ran him down... litterally.

Personally... you get what you ask for. I don't want my horses to act like idiots on the end of a lead rope, so I don't train them too.
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#4 cvm2002

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 12:48 PM

Yeah, that's MY post that's there on Fugly. I'm thrilled.

I didn't see the incident either, and only reported what had been previously described.

SpottedTApps...sadly, you're WAY off on this. The horse wasn't "jazzed up" or spooked or asked to run like an idiot. His previous trainers completely FRIED this horse to "prepare" him for Main Ring Halter. He was sent to Matthew Gales to "rehab" him and the horse just wasn't ready to be back in the ring and he (the horse) had a meltdown. Both times he got loose, there was no wild, jazzed up stallion. He trotted to the end of the ring and stood quietly to be collected. No aggression towards the other stallions at all. When a stallion is seen with his knees on the handlers back, how do you NOT call that at attack?

There IS video. Don't expect to see it any time soon though. SeeHorse video has it all and they're already editing tapes before they'll be released.

Edited by cvm2002, 25 February 2010 - 12:49 PM.

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#5 DiluteMe

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 01:06 PM

From the way they were discribing it sounds a lot like a yearling at my niece's county fair show at the beginning of this month. He just was a spaz and had no respect for his handler. In the "asle" before the arena he spazzed and came down at and ontop of his youth handler. Luckily EMS was there, one of them and my father in law (who is a police officer) stabilized her. Put a neck brace on she declined to goto the hospital and wanted to continue showing. It was oked. Well she wanted to show that yearling in the class! Her parents let her, that was the same class my niece showed my yearling in. The girl went first. Everything was ok, my niece started going. Well the girl tried to square the yearling. The yearling flipped out again and standing at on it's back legs went after his handler. Kept going at her. There was nothing anyone could do. Unfortunately she was holding the lead wrong, wrapped around her hand, and the yearling had snapped her finger. This yearling got away with her, and every time he'd step on his lead would go back up and lash out at anyone near him.

Some horses just have that loose bolt up there. I hope the handler is ok and recovers.

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#6 SpottedTApps

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 01:15 PM

See? That's the thing. The people that didn't see it are claiming it was attack. The people that DID see it are NOT claiming attack. They state they truly don't know what happened, yet no one saw an ears pinned angry horse.

And not jazzed up? This was an Arab halter class right? At Scottsdale?

It was stated in several places that one should do their own research and form their own opinion. I read on 4 different boards accounts from specatators as well as people who talked to spectators as well as people who talked to people who talked to spectators as well as people who read somehting somewhere.... yeah.

I formed my opinion from the mouths of those who were there.
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#7 MondaesMom

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 01:26 PM

I would tend to believe the eyewitnesses who were experienced horse people. No offense intended cvm, but it only takes a moment for a horse to spook with a handler whose attention is momentarily engaged elsewhere to create this kind of trainwreck.

One of my horses has the kite on a string in high wind tendency when on the lead. His trainer, very well respected and very good at his occupation, was never able to train it out of him.

This is not one of our Arabs and, therefore, the fiery behavior at halter is a handicap in the ring for this breed. Both his breeder and trainer have stated that was why he was redirected to park saddle and park harness.

With this horse, I never let my guard down and we always use a stud chain to maintain control on the lead.

There are just some horses that are like that. I think this horse is probably one. Now, I may not have been around as many horses as some on here, but probably more than many of the members and I think its irresponsible to be tagging this horse with a label of vicious by implication.

I've only come across two horses in my lifetime that I would feel comfortable labeling as vicious and deliberately so. One was a retired top end TB racehorse. The other was one of his colts. I saw the racehorse charge a groom who was handling him and young boy who was standing about 10 feet away and it was quite deliberate. I never worked around the colt without at least a crop or something else to beat him off me or anyone else.

That's two horses in over a hundred. So, at the maximum, from a subjective observation, that's less than 2% of the population.

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#8 exes blue eyed devil

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 01:36 PM

QUOTE (SpottedTApps @ Feb 25 2010, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
See? That's the thing. The people that didn't see it are claiming it was attack. The people that DID see it are NOT claiming attack. They state they truly don't know what happened, yet no one saw an ears pinned angry horse.
I formed my opinion from the mouths of those who were there.



I actually don't know if I would trust the spin from the Arabian world either, they are WAY INTO damage control mode by the time I checked the BBs and were very worried about how this would play along with the 'stereotype' of butt-crazy arab halter horses.

I think the witnesses are spinning because 1. they like the stallion and 2. they are protecting their industry.

Edited by exes blue eyed devil, 25 February 2010 - 01:37 PM.

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#9 Mo's Mom

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 01:42 PM

On the Arabian board I read several eyewitness accounts that said that the second was questionable, but the third looked deliberate to them. confused0024.gif Page 23 I think.
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#10 Abadan Arabians

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 01:47 PM

And this is exactly what kills the Arabian breed..... another story of a "CRAZY" Arabian stallion. Those crazy Arabs! This is why I don't agree either with the way the halter classes are. It got to the point that they had to be all jazzed and spooked and worked up to do well in the class. I don't think that's right. That's why my Arabian stallion, Shakar, would not do well in this class although he could probably dominate in them. He's definitely halter horse material but I would never subject him to that. I like that I can hand him off to almost anyone to lead around. I like that he stands still with he head dropped and standing still.

I still don't know what happened but would love to hear the "TRUTH" or see it first hand. But until that happens, to me, it's a freak accident. I won't form an opinion until I know what happened.

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#11 manesntails

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 02:03 PM

From Fugly:

"The first two episodes were described as striking out and then shouldering the trainer out of the way, with the third time being a deliberate knock-down and savage, including the horse’s knees on the trainer. Again, as I understand it, after the first two episodes, the horse was loose in the ring, but was easily caught with no aggression shown and these episodes occurred BEFORE the class was considered “in session”

If the handler was on the ground, with the stallion's knees in his back and savaging him with his teeth, but was, as it says above, easily caught and not aggressive to those handling him afterwards; then the horse has something "personal" he's expressing.

I've been there, done that with horses. You get a horse hating you or hating something you are asking him to do, especially a stallion, you can get attacked.

From this alone, I would not call the horse a nut-case, just a horse that has had it.








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#12 Mo's Mom

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 02:08 PM

Manes I am leaning towards agreeing with you. I hope they give him a chance away from the Halter ring, he may never have the mind for it again, but be a wonderful horse other wise. Crazy-no - smart and fed up - maybe yes.
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#13 jumpin_horses

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 02:18 PM

something similar to this happened a few years ago at the "stallion expo" at Michigan State U.

we were in the back by the staging area where the stallions where getting prepped. I saw one handler where it looked like he shoved something up into a horses mouth, like in his teeth?. I asked my friend "what the heck is he doing?" we had no idea, but, it didnt look good.

by the time we got around front to sit and watch the show for a while, the stallion had already grabbed handler by the arm and had flung him (unconciously) around the entire arena. and bit his finger off, and then attacked the other another handler trying to help

honestly I think they did something bad to this animal, and he had just "had it" too.

whats really sad about it is, they pegged this horse "dangerous" and they put him down. they asked my vet if she would put him down, and she refused, so they actually had to go get another vet.

Edited by jumpin_horses, 25 February 2010 - 02:19 PM.


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#14 cvm2002

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 04:42 PM

Funny how my own quote comes back as the quote off of Fugly. Yes, THAT WAS ME.

I don't know what sites are being read and what accounts referred to, but I really don't know if ANYONE really knows what happened or WILL know until video is made available. Even then, everyone interprets it differently.

What IS known is 1) The trainers this horse had been with previously, before he came into Matthew Gales care. The two names I've seen are well known in the Arabian world as extremely whip-happy individuals and certainly no one I would ever send a horse to. 2) Matthew Gales only had the stallion for a few months, to try and rehab him from his previous "halter training". The goal was to get the horse working under saddle, which apparently the horse enjoyed very much. The owners wanted the horse shown at Scottsdale, Mr. Gales advised against it, the owners insisted, and the rest is history. 3) Mr. Gales ended up in the hospital with a skull fracture from injuries inflicted by the stallion.

One knock down is understandable. But THREE? A professional trainer that's worked around the world and has already been knocked out of the way once....don't you THINK precautions were taken to avoid it happening again?

Whatever happened, the horse needs to be turned out to pasture for a year before they even think about training this poor beast.

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#15 Tazzin

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 10:36 PM

Dina, are you getting your information from ABH?
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#16 MondaesMom

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 11:00 PM

Funny, I'm kind of wondering the same thing. I don't go to that site but once in a great while now and it sure sound like some of the **** Tom's cronies would spew just to try to get a little political edge.

ABN is a whole lot more pragmatic and reliable as compared to ABH if you really want to use something like that as a source.
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#17 Tazzin

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 11:25 PM

I would certainly trust the word of posters on ABN a heck of a lot more than posters on ABH. My reasons for this were already clearly stated on redmia's judging thread but I can go copy them.

I would like to hear from the handler, the owners, or view the video myself, before anything else is said about this horse and what happened in that arena. Adding to any negativity about ANY breed should only be based on truth and fact. I really suspect a lot of what is being said is rumor and being sensationalized because it is negative and thus "drama", which so many seem to love so much lately.

I was there shortly AFTER it happened (within 10 minutes, the class was still in the ring) and the crowd was not buzzing about what had occurred. The spectator I chatted with that saw it wasn't worried or upset in the least and only said he got trampled, but I don't know who she was.

I think everyone should be very careful to repeat only facts that can be backed up. I think we do this horse, the handler and the owners a disservice by doing otherwise.
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#18 MondaesMom

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 11:27 PM

notworthy.gif Exactly what I was trying to say, using the Morgans and TBs as examples, but wasn't getting across! You're much better than me and I write for a living.
CVN - 74, I will never forgive.

Beware the devil incarnate! I am a Californian. I am owned by Arabs. I don't ride western and I live in <b><i>real</i></b> cowboy country!

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#19 Mo's Mom

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 07:53 AM

angel3.gif angel3.gif prayers for the handler that he is recovering from his skull fracture.
Mom to:
Jessica and Anthony 16 year old twins.
Mo - 19 year old Arab
Cowboy - 13 year old Chincateague pony
Zeke - 8 YO Welsh cross project pony
Muchakin (Munchie) - 4YO Welsh cross project pony
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#20 ozland

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 08:37 AM

Latest word is the handler is out of the hospital and HE claims it was accidental. Blames it on all the hazing with plastic bags and whips as the halter horses enter the ring, to get them "animated".

S'cuse me, gotta go iron my birthday suit.

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#21 Abadan Arabians

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 03:20 PM

QUOTE (Tazzin @ Feb 25 2010, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would certainly trust the word of posters on ABN a heck of a lot more than posters on ABH. My reasons for this were already clearly stated on redmia's judging thread but I can go copy them.

I would like to hear from the handler, the owners, or view the video myself, before anything else is said about this horse and what happened in that arena. Adding to any negativity about ANY breed should only be based on truth and fact. I really suspect a lot of what is being said is rumor and being sensationalized because it is negative and thus "drama", which so many seem to love so much lately.

I was there shortly AFTER it happened (within 10 minutes, the class was still in the ring) and the crowd was not buzzing about what had occurred. The spectator I chatted with that saw it wasn't worried or upset in the least and only said he got trampled, but I don't know who she was.

I think everyone should be very careful to repeat only facts that can be backed up. I think we do this horse, the handler and the owners a disservice by doing otherwise.

notworthy.gif
Very well worded Taz.

Oz- thanks for the update. Glad to hear he's okay and also glad to hear it was "accidental".

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#22 Tazzin

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 03:54 PM

Copied from ABN, phone numbers deleted by me. You can see them over on ABN.
QUOTE
Thank you. I am so hurt and disappointed in all this that is being said.



We went to Scottsdale to simply enjoy the show and to attend the “Scapa” party Brookville Arabians had planned for us on Tues night.



Shawn Crews, Beverly Smith Embry and a few of our clients came out to the party. Scapa had never looked more beautiful. At the end of the night, Shawn suggested to Matthew Gales his trainer that we take him in the 5 year old stallion class. We all thought about how could it hurt? He would be in front of people, he might win a ribbon, he might sell a breeding or two. Sounded good.



We had NOT planned to show him in Scottsdale, he was going to the Vegas Show. We lost our minds and got caught up in the fun of the show, and he went in. They trailered him over, took the blanket off and he was second in. Scapa was scared to death. He wanted to get into Matthews pocket. It was a train wreck. Matthew is ok. He is back to work. Still loves Scapa. Still loves us, and we love him.



We all take full responsibility for taking him in. It was “Human error”, not the horses fault. Scapa is a beautiful gentle giant. His babies are fabulous and we are honored to have him.



We learned from our mistake.





Wanda Kenworthy

Paradise Arabians, Ltd.

Farm

Cell

www.paradisearabians.com

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#23 Tazzin

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 03:55 PM

P.S. I am a client of Beverly Smith-Embry, and I will see if she was present for the class.
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#24 Tazzin

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 03:55 PM

And if they hadn't planned on showing him, why was he entered and in the program? questionicon.gif
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Psaint VF+ - 11 year old Arabian gelding. Cassels Olympia, 16 year old Arabian mare, Khassandra BWB, 7 month old Arabian filly

#25 MondaesMom

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 08:32 PM

I suspect they entered him, had second thoughts and decided to withdraw him after the publication date of the programs and then changed their minds again.

I saw the Baers do this with Corinthian Squire, a Morgan stallion, in 1976ish for the Grand Nationals as I was with the Corinthian contingent for the show. Fortunately for the Baers, it was a much better outcome as Sqeeky ended up the Grand National Champion stallion that year.

The whole waffling thing happens more often with the bigger barns because the money isn't as big a consideration compared to the advertising even if the horse is withdrawn.

No, I never rode Squire so that's not where that judge I told you about knows me from. I rode his half-brother.
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#26 Tazzin

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 11:48 PM

If they were indeed throwing a "Scapa party" it may have been a private gig as I have no flyer for it. They would have had to have entered him in a class to have him present on the show grounds for a party. It's a huge penalty if you bring a horse onto the grounds that is not entered in a class, and it costs A LOT to bring a horse on the grounds to merely promote it. That could be an explanation as well.

Beverly has not answered my email, but she is 3 hours ahead of me and may have gone home for the day.
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#27 Tazzin

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 10:38 AM

This post is from another forum. The poster is not aiming at anyone on HC.
QUOTE
As the primary owner of the stallion, Scapa, I have a few things to say to set the record straight. Until recently I had no idea that a “gossip” venue like this even existed. Just the other night someone sent me an email stating that people were “trashing my horse on ABH” and attached a link to the site. After reading some of the postings it struck me as to how true the old saying is, "you don’t know what you don’t know,” but that sure didn’t stop people from posting an opinion! As I read one after the other I was struck by several emotions that spanned quite a range. At some I was amused but at some I was aghast! Some contained a glimmer of truth and some bore none at all. Some really seemed to have little to do with horse or handler, merely being an opportunity to snipe and belittle others who had posted opinions.

I was surprised at how many people were willing to pontificate on a subject about which they knew very little or nothing at all…and put it in writing! But, when I looked closer I realized the number was really quite small, and I was encouraged. Evidently there are a few people out there with way too much time on their hands. One thing I do know is that anyone who is criticizing Scapa’s owners and the way we might have treated him have never visited our farm and clearly don’t know Matthew Gales.

What follows is the truth behind the awful situation that unfolded on Friday, February 19th in Scottsdale. Scapa did go to a different training facility in Scottsdale in the fall of 2008 and when he came home he had stomach ulcers and a new attitude. We attributed it to the fact that in Scottsdale he had very little out time and he was used to wide open pastures and lots of green grass back home. We had no intention of showing him in 2009, he stayed home to breed his book of mares. In May of 2009 Annabella Gelbard and Matthew Gales of Brookville Arabians visited our farm and they got to meet Scapa. They both immediately fell in love. Matthew, especially, fell in love and was eager to be associated with him so we gave him the opportunity to school him here. It was obvious from the first moment that Scapa loved Matthew and Matthew loved Scapa. It seemed a match made in heaven, so Matthew made several trips back and forth to school Scapa and help us in many ways to prepare his future.

In December Scapa was transported to Brookville to begin his preparation for the World Cup in Las Vegas. We had no intention of showing him in Scottsdale, but we entered him just to keep his name out there and our options open. When he was presented at the Brookville Open House on Tuesday evening, the 16th, he was incredible. He looked great, behaved well and people actually wept upon seeing him! A groundswell developed and several attendees encouraged us to show him. Not for the ribbon as some have suggested, but for the exposure. As it turns out, that exposure wasn’t so good. As to what actually happened in the ring, I was there but I DID NOT actually see, with my own eyes, any of the occurrences, even though I was in the arena myself! But according to Matthew, it was not at all as has been portrayed! Nonetheless, I will not speak for Matthew but rather allow him to post if he so chooses.

The outcome was terrible, and almost tragic. I, like several others, am highly upset that there was no ambulance on site. Waiting on an ambulance to arrive from central Scottsdale is unacceptable but I will reserve judgment because it’s possible that there may have been another accident about which I am unaware and they may have been in route to a hospital with another injured party. Thankfully, Matthew is doing well. It could have been much worse. Matthew’s first words after we were allowed to visit him in the hospital trauma center were, “It wasn’t Scapa’s fault. He wasn’t ready.” For those of you who are so eager to criticize halter trainers and owners, I suppose some may be deserving but Matthew Gales certainly is not. We are proud to have him train our horses precisely because of how he treats our animals: with love, dignity and respect. Any suggestion that Matthew beat or otherwise mistreated Scapa obviously comes from an uninformed source.

The good news is Matthew will be fine. He is out of the hospital and back to work, albeit in a limited capacity for a while. As to the future, Scapa will be heading back home soon and we will take it one day at a time. He may or may not ever show again, we’ll see. Certainly we will be letting his babies show for him in any case.

As for me, I will not comment further on this site but if you’d like to discuss anything about this incident, or any other topic, please feel free to contact me by phone, (deleted by Tazzin) or email, (deleted by Tazzin).

In the meantime the relationship between Paradise Arabians and Brookville Arabians, the Kenworthy family and Matthew Gales, remains strong, and our love of Scapa remains strong as well. And, Scapa’s international legacy as a sire continues with another successful sale to Germany. We'd like to extend a special thanks to Matthew Gales, Elisa and Frank Sponle, and Frank Sponle Training Center for their assistance.


Gary Kenworthy

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There is no value and respect for love without experiencing heartache. No bliss without despair. No prosperity without failure. No loyalty without betrayal. No faith without abandonment. No passion without suffering. - Sean Getty Lowe

I met a board buddy - JrRodeoMom, brlracr624, caseygrey, GemEllie0613, JPParadiseRanch, Quincy's Keeper, HolyJeezers, Quartermutt, Silk, SkyFireDelight, HeGotSpots, Sweet Caroline and kidlets, Kina Kat, Lynnehall, Equi-Librium, LongingToRun, TrottingRightBehind, Driftin Mom, Driftin Cowboy, Driftin Cowgirl, Hi Tech Redneck, iluvspots, CindyP, Katy BlackJack, Mrs, Buck, Andi, Mondaes Mom, Jacks Dad, Buck, mrs, KatyCox. and probably many others whose screen names I don't know ;)

Psaint VF+ - 11 year old Arabian gelding. Cassels Olympia, 16 year old Arabian mare, Khassandra BWB, 7 month old Arabian filly

#28 Mo's Mom

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 10:53 AM

That sound like a caring owner, for horse and handler. smileywavey.gif
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#29 GlowingTrickPony

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 11:16 AM

that was sweet! its goes to show you that if you post ANYthing on this board expect it to come up on GOOGLE! Especially if you name-names I've seen stuff i've posted! ashamed0002.gif

#30 SpottedTApps

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 12:02 PM

I see no reason not to believe what the owner says. As I stated from the start, it sounds more like a terrified horse than an attack horse. But then... what do I know?
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