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Honey For Thrush


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#1 aredhorse

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 09:15 AM

A couple of years ago I posted a thread about an article I'd found that discussed using honey to treat thrush. Just curious if anyone has heard anything about this approach recently. I know Southergurl recently mentioned having alot of success, would love to hear more.

Here are a couple of interesting links,
http://www.pr.com/press-release/229108

http://www.naturestrim.com/Thrush.htm

"For stubborn cases of deep seated infection, nothing seems to be as effective as raw honey."
http://www.barehoofcare.com/thrush.htm

#2 K. Blue

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 10:42 AM

It's interesting. I wish the second and third links would have discussed how the honey helps more. The third link only mentioned it in passing.

It's counter-intuitive to me that honey would work well because, in most cases, honey is about 80% sugar. We keep talking and reading about how we should limit the sugars in our horses' diets as it's bad for their overall health and their hooves.

I'd love for someone to actually conduct a study with it so we can see how and why it works, how it compares to other treatments, etc.

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#3 Mudder

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 03:16 PM

If honey can cure syphilis lip ( cold sores) as hubby calls it, winking0073.gif I don't see why it wouldn't help a case of thrush too. Honey used to be used to cure lots of things. confused0024.gif
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#4 Southerngurl01

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 08:08 PM

Honey is a very broad spectrum antibiotic and antifungal. It's why honey is the only food that NEVER goes bad. It is being used for antibiotic resistant MRSA infections. There are properties in honey that have not even been identified.

It is also sticky and, being water based, makes it's way into all the crevices nicely.

Edited by Southerngurl01, 13 May 2010 - 01:03 PM.

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#5 K. Blue

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 11:43 AM

QUOTE (Southerngurl01 @ May 12 2010, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Honey is a very broad spectrum antibiotic and anti-fungal.



This is info that's helpful, as it states some of the properties the honey has.

The first link only states that "honey is a natural anti-bacterial." That's the only mention of what it does. Obviously, they've been using her salve. I would have loved to see before and after pictures, some statistics on the product, something to back up the claims.

The second link refers to raw honey as being an ingredient in one of the products the author recommends. However, there are many other ingredients in the products that help with the healing. I'm not trying to discredit the honey, but it seems that in most cases, they combine it with other ingredients with known healing properties.

All the third link said about honey was, "For stubborn cases of deep seated infection, nothing seems to be as effective as raw honey." It doesn't state why it's effective, how it works, etc.

I just want more info to back up the claims. I blame it on being a business major and all the analysis I had to do on research and studies.


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#6 Southerngurl01

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 01:05 PM

I understand what you're saying, problem is with most natural products, there isn't much research. People research things they can patent.

Honey has been used for thousands of years. Try it and see if it works for you or not :)
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Owner of Zip and Doc, also have dairy goats, chickens and cats, and three dogs, Missy (the ancient- 17), Allie (the GOOD dog) and Safara (the dog's dog)

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#7 bex DK

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 02:40 PM

No study for you, but my husband ALWAYS uses honey on his own wounds. Basically he uses honey like americans use antibiotic salve. But wihtout comparitive study, who knows if it really works.

Honey in this country is way thicker than normal honey in the US. I think it is closer to the raw state.

Maybe I should try that on the thrush....

#8 manesntails

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 02:54 PM

With the amount of ants I have, I'd be afraid I'd come out to find a skeletonized horse next day~!!








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#9 Mia'sMom

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 03:04 PM

Honey is good for burns too. It seems that too much sugar is as inhibiting to bacterias as is too much salt. Highly sugared and salted items don't spoil because bacteria just can't grow in those environments. The fact that it is so sticky and adhesive would also make it an enemy to aerobic bacterias that need oxygen to grow as it seeps into all the nooks and crannies of wounds.

There. That's the sum of my knowledge about honey!!! Well, that and that I like it on peanut butter sandwiches!!!!
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#10 Better Hooves By Justice

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 08:36 PM

QUOTE (manesntails @ May 13 2010, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
With the amount of ants I have, I'd be afraid I'd come out to find a skeletonized horse next day~!!



HA! Very valid concern. Especially here in TX.
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#11 K. Blue

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 09:31 PM

Good info, Mia's Mom.

I'm storing it in my info inventory. It's always great to learn something new. I'm just a skeptic on most things. If anyone ends up using it more and documents the progress, I'd love to see it.
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#12 missyclare

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 11:49 AM

I did some looking around and didn't find much substantial information either.
The star player is Manuka honey grown only in New Zealand.....and guess what....its made from the pollen of the Tea Tree....the magic component it has over all other honeys. Gee, I've got tea tree oil at the barn, but back to the honey.
I did find out that it attracts water, so it has pulling power on a wound as well.

There is other info on this site as well.
http://www.honeymark....com/index.aspx

Also here:
http://www.drgrotte.com/honey-medicine



#13 Southerngurl01

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 12:03 PM

While all honey is antibiotic and antifungal, this manuka honey is supposed to have a little extra kick. Just don't let yourself think you have to have that kind! Honey made from any plant has the necessary properties.
Ashley

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#14 Southerngurl01

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 07:20 AM

Just wanted to update the honey is really working great for me. I'm only getting to put it on about twice a week and the frogs that had central crevices are really opening and look clean and uninfected. Even when we've been getting rain and humid weather! I wish I had known about this a long time ago. At least for whatever mix of bacteria/yeast my horses have it's working better than anything I have used before.
Ashley

Owner of Zip and Doc, also have dairy goats, chickens and cats, and three dogs, Missy (the ancient- 17), Allie (the GOOD dog) and Safara (the dog's dog)

Flint River Ranch Natural Pet Food
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Ozark Herbal Association - Superfood, Supertonic, Echinacea, Liver Flushes...

#15 Wild Rose

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 07:33 AM

The thing I worry about is the sugar. I don't think you should put sugar on a yeast infection in the hooves. Or is the the sugar in honey different?

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#16 missyclare

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 09:30 AM

http://talkpsoriasis...-quot-THE-BEAST!

I found this forum. It is about people, but information none the less. Yes, any sugar is bad, including fruits and the yeast in bread and honey...and vinegar on the matter. Its a good read. When I googled it, it took me to a Psoriasis forum, which is another big problem with yeast. Psoriasis is also a big problem with obesity and diabetics.

Obesity is another factor as well and Rosie still needs to lose weight. Tons of sugar in spring grass.

Yeast infection of hoof/nail rather than skin, indicates that the infection is systemic (like from antiobiotics) rather than topical (skin lesions)

I ventured on and a lot of links led me to products for sale.

I wonder...................I wonder.....if switching the Ramey Goo to something like Femmisil would help?

But Rosie weight, the fact that you are still battling it, tells me that it just may be systemic. Now we're talking immune system health. I certainly think that you've done a lot to correct this area with getting the minerals balanced. But, are you still feeding this? I wonder if this has been dropped until next hay season, that it has set her back on this in the face of the grass? (High fructose) That maybe you were starting to see a difference that losing weight/minerals/treatment were starting to have made a difference?

If Rosie were mine, I would continue the efforts on good hoof hygiene on the topical side and continue to cleanse her diet by keeping the minerals balanced and taking her off the grass or atleast limiting it. Lots of movement for hoof health and continuous weight loss and good colony of enzymes for optimal digestive health. I get this strong feeling that her weight and this situation is still encouraging the proliferation of yeast.
The digestive tract is exactly where her immune system against all life is either made or broken, including the inability to control yeast proliferation. When yeast grows, it moves through the digestive tract and plugs up other places as well. It might take some time to back it off, clean it up and get it under control. When I see a over weight horse, I think "plugged up". I'm inclined to ask...is it possible that your efforts only got her half unplugged? That restricted diet, good immune system, continued weight loss and mostly movement would have her literally walking away from this problem?



#17 Southerngurl01

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 02:45 PM

QUOTE (Wild Rose @ May 24 2010, 08:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The thing I worry about is the sugar. I don't think you should put sugar on a yeast infection in the hooves. Or is the the sugar in honey different?


Because the sugar is without enough water for it to be utilized it doesn't feed yeast, it kills it.

Sorta like overfertilizing grass?
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#18 Wild Rose

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 03:47 PM

Missy, no, I'm not feeding Rosie the supplement anymore. I did feed it a little while after they were off the hay, though, until it was gone. She's been off it for a couple weeks now. Now she's on Opt E Horse, which has probiotics in it..

Rosie has lost weight. My vet, trimmer, and riding instructor all say she looks really good now. I'll have to get a good picture of her. Her saddle even sits lower on her because the fat is gone. I have to make a new flank cinch....I ran out of holes to shorten it. Of course, she might add the weight back on with the grass. I can't exercise her right now. She is sore.

Rosie gets grass, Opt E Horse, a handful of beet pulp (soaked and rinsed well) morning and night so she can get her salt, two carrots a day, Simplifly (feed through fly control), and that's it.

I don't think she needs to be limited on grass. I really feel this whole problem stems from 3 winters of eating that fertilized hay, and I have just not been able to get rid of the infection because I have not been cleaning thoroughly since she has been off the hay. I am now cleaning VERY thoroughly. I do see improvement, or at least nothing worse.

I am getting different hay for next winter.

She started getting that fertilized hay the fall of 2006. She was barefoot trimmed first on Aug 22, 2007. That's when my trimmer told me she had a yeast infection. That summer of 2007 she was sore off and on...like a week after each trim. I'm thinking it was the yeast infection then.

Before she was EVER on this hay, she got grass and weed hay from my brother from unfertilized fields that were not plowed or planted for years. She did fine. No soreness ever, even though her hooves were flared and cracking.






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PrettyRosie-1.jpgChiefforsiggy-1-1-2.jpgIMG_0194cropped-1.jpg
Rosie....................Chief...........................Jedi
Rosie_in_the_mist.jpg
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R.I.P. Snow Chief, August 25, 1980 - April 16, 2009
You were the best trail horse ever.


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#19 Trinity

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 10:25 PM

I would sell those cavello boots that dont fit her right anymore and get the right size boot with a set of 10 dollar pads in them so you can get her moving and keep riding and working and using her foot properly. She shouldnt be left sore IMO. Comfortable movement is one of the crutial 4 building blocks of a good barefoot. It is just as important as trim, diet and environment. Perhaps she needs prominade walks also.

I also agree that a new trimmer might give some new insight for you and Rosie and again more frequent trims or touchups at least on her fronts.

Im back down to every 2 weeks for one horse I trim. At 4 weeks out after this last trim (his winter cycle is 4 weeks) he was going backwards and I had to play catch up after just ONE trim cycle of growing too long in a 4 week cycle.

Just letting the foot grow too long one time can set you back by two trims. One step forward two steps back when this happens....

I still have faith you and Rosie will come through this and she will have a good hard sound foot.
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#20 bex DK

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 06:25 AM

Somewhat off topic to the overall thread, but relevant to Trinity's post.

Is it unusual for horses to seem to need trims as often as every 2 weeks? It seems like my mare especially is getting hoof wall beyond the sole so quickly that she is needing retrims quite often. It seems like we just trimmed her, but cleaning her feet today I noticed a good bit of heel beyond the sole. This is my mare that has been long toe/low heel that we are finally getting back towards a healthy shape.

Does the changing season have any impact on how often trims are needed? Might a very snowy and icy winter have encouraged them to retain more sole that is now coming out in the dry spring? Our pasture is pretty sandy, if that makes a difference.


#21 Wild Rose

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 06:30 AM

Thanks, Trinity.

I hope I didn't sound snippy in my last post. I'm just getting so frustrated with this that I find myself wanting to bite people's heads off. I have even lost my temper a bit with Rosie when she decides she doesn't want me messing with her feet anymore. Then I feel really bad.

I will check on Ebay for boots, too. I have shied away from buying more boots because I hear so much controversy on one kind vs another. It just sounds like more frustration, so I've been just duct taping foam pads on her feet....made from those dense foam pads used for people who have to stand on concrete. At least with those I get the right fit!


Edited by Wild Rose, 25 May 2010 - 05:14 PM.


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Rosie, aka Hankie Doc

http://www.allbreedp....com/hankie doc

 

PrettyRosie-1.jpgChiefforsiggy-1-1-2.jpgIMG_0194cropped-1.jpg
Rosie....................Chief...........................Jedi
Rosie_in_the_mist.jpg
Rosie in the Mist

R.I.P. Snow Chief, August 25, 1980 - April 16, 2009
You were the best trail horse ever.


Old dogs and children, and watermelon wine...


#22 Trinity

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 11:17 AM

I dont think its uncommon at all for horses to need more frequent trimming depending on the envoronment weather and ride time, quality of brouse available etc etc...

Some horses are able to go 4 weeks withouth takeing backwards steps but others just cannot. Those who do best IME with waiting are horses who are in work, have no metabolic issues and a dry envorinment and usually are on tons, if not 24-7, turnout and have developed thick walls from using the foot. Horses without all these things in place seem to go backwards when left too long and you are left fixing the same things over and over again.

Its like a puzzle with variables. You have to get all the parts put together and deal with the changing tabletop....It does require some effort sometimes but the reward is really worth it IMO.

Edited by Trinity, 25 May 2010 - 11:19 AM.

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#23 Wild Rose

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 03:40 PM

Rosie has been going no longer than 5 weeks now, and my trimmer says that's about right for her. A few touchups in between wouldn't hurt, I'm sure, but I don't dare right now.

Rosie does have 24/7 turnout, but she's not ridden regularly. My plan was to ride more this summer since I have an instructor now. But, with the soreness, that's been put on hold too. We are dry right now, (and HOT), but we go from dry to very wet and back again, quite often.

Yes, it certainly is a puzzle. One that I wish were easier to solve.

I just got home from work, so I will be heading out to feed and check her hooves pretty soon.

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Rosie, aka Hankie Doc

http://www.allbreedp....com/hankie doc

 

PrettyRosie-1.jpgChiefforsiggy-1-1-2.jpgIMG_0194cropped-1.jpg
Rosie....................Chief...........................Jedi
Rosie_in_the_mist.jpg
Rosie in the Mist

R.I.P. Snow Chief, August 25, 1980 - April 16, 2009
You were the best trail horse ever.


Old dogs and children, and watermelon wine...