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Stallion Prospect


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#1 Suniac

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:40 AM

Hello. I am interested in an AQHA perlino colt and would like to know what you guys think of him. The pix I have so far are of this summer when he was still very little. If I get new pix from her I will post them. I am planning on going to see him either sometime this week or next week. His barn name is Dually she is still waiting to get his papers back from AQHA. His Sire is http://www.allbreedp...e pine dual nic and his Dam is http://www.allbreedp...hy prescription Please check out his pedigree as well. I am not really farmiliar with blood lines so I'm also wondering with his bloodlines what do you think he is bred for?

Here he is with his dam.
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Dually and his sire.
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His sire.
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Thanks. :smilie:

If the all breed pedigree links do not work his sire is Little Pine Dual Nic and his dam is Docs Shy Prescription.
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#2 Alaskandraft

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:26 AM

Color don't make a stallion.. Conformation and breeding is top on the list , plus any kind of performance record besides covering mares is a plus as well..
I also look for attitude and if the horse has a good temperament. Hard to find this in a baby.. It comes with age.. Too many people breed for color without the consideration of any of the above.

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#3 Suniac

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:07 PM

I am not planning to breed him untill he is at least 4 or 5. He will be broke to ride long before he ever gets close to a mare. I am well aware of the fact horses need more than color to be succesfull. I also plan on him learning a discipline but I'm not sure what he would excel the most at. Even adult successfull stallions started out as foals. Just saying. Someone must have seen something in them that made them decide they would make a nice breeding stallion. Other wise they would have probably gelded at 6 to 24 months like most geldings are.

Please look at him as a horse and NOT just a perlino. Don't judge him on his color alone. Pretend he is sorrel and if you still see a colt that will make a better gelding than a stallion I will respect and still apretiate your opinion. Please don't assume I don't care about conformation, breeding, bloodlines and performance. I would not have asked if I did not care. Please read through my posts carefully before replying.
Thanks agian.

Also please take a look at his pedigree. I would like opinions on his bloodlines and what he was possibly bred for. His owner has him listed for cutting.

Edited by Suniac, 21 February 2012 - 01:18 PM.

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#4 exes blue eyed devil

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:41 PM

Well he isn't bred for pleasure, I don't see ANYTHING that notable in that are but A SHY PERSCRIPTION and that is pretty far back. What do you plan to show him in? His sire has NO AQHA show record, which makes me suspicious that the sire has never actually done anything (usually even reining/cutting etc quarter horses have SOME AQHA record). If you don't know what this stallion's get is good at then how are you going to market this stallion?
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#5 ..::Felda::..

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:44 PM

His pedigree is really all over the place. Stud's side makes me think reining or cutting while the dam side says ranch work and western pleasure. I don't like critiquing babies as they may be in awkward stages so try to get a confo worthy pic of sire and dam.

I would really go out and try different things before you settle into what his pedigree is. I don't see any special thought put into creating this colt except for making a nice riding horse. It would be up to you decide what he would be best at if you choose to go the show route.
Is it possible to stay on topic to what the thread is about? Or has the population become so distracted it must resort to addressing every little allusion thus changing the direction of this thread and losing the topic? Have we lost the ability to recognize this problem and just start a new topic if the oppportunity arises? Please do so now if you feel so inclined to seek attention.


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#6 exes blue eyed devil

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:45 PM

His sire has one registered buckskin foal 2011. Which means he hit the breeding shed as a 2 year old, which means his sire has accomplished exactly nothing, but be perlino.
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#7 exes blue eyed devil

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 01:48 PM

dam side says ranch work and western pleasure.

Honestly western pleasure is stretching it a lot!
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#8 ..::Felda::..

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:07 PM

Show wise yes it is stretching, but I'm going by recognition here if that explains anything. If the OP wants a nice stud to possibly breed a few babies later on I see no error in this colt unless he's confo defective. She may choose to show him too, but I feel a successful show record will rely alot on the OP's ability to ride and train for a specific discipline. If she's not good at chosen discipline I still wouldn't fault the horse for her short coming.
Is it possible to stay on topic to what the thread is about? Or has the population become so distracted it must resort to addressing every little allusion thus changing the direction of this thread and losing the topic? Have we lost the ability to recognize this problem and just start a new topic if the oppportunity arises? Please do so now if you feel so inclined to seek attention.


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#9 Suniac

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:22 PM

Thanks for the comments everyone. The fact that his sire has acomplished nothing is his owners porogative not mine. Just because she thinks being pelino was good enough doesn't mean I think the same way she does. I think he is worth a look at least. If he isn't what I'm looking for I will definitly keep looking. I am not set on this particular colt. I have always had an interest in reining and my friend know a gal about a half hour from me that does it and works with a trainer thats about an hour drive from me. She said she would be willing to help if either of us was interested in the sport. I might see if I can get him or her to take a look at his pix and pedigree for me.
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#10 Stinger

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:34 PM

So you want a stud... To have a stud? Usually those who get into breeding have a specific discipline they're in, get a good reputation in said discipline, then go find a stud/stud prospect...for that discipline. Seems like you're going about it backwards. JMO.

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#11 exes blue eyed devil

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:25 PM

So you want a stud... To have a stud? Usually those who get into breeding have a specific discipline they're in, get a good reputation in said discipline, then go find a stud/stud prospect...for that discipline. Seems like you're going about it backwards. JMO.


I absolutely agree!

You just don't buy a stud and decide to learn reining - how will you promote him when you are learning himself? No one serious will want to breed to a 'novice level' stallion. Either buy him and send him to a respected trainer to promote (expect it to cost you) or buy a nice gelding :winking:
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#12 nick

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:35 PM

and do the math. BACKWARDS. it's called "top down costing". if you don't know what that is you are destined to LOSE MONEY. hey! if you've got it, go for it.
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#13 Suniac

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:52 PM

Ok Thanks for the advice. I would plan on sending him to a trainer. I'm just looking to get as much info as I can at this stage. I haven't bought anything yet so it's just in the thinking and planning stages. I don't plan on showing him myself at this stage. I am going to contact a trainer tonight and see what he says about his pedigree first and go from there. I'm also going to keep looking for colts that are more specificly bred for reining only. I still might give this colt a look. Ya never know I might spend two years on the drawing board before I ever find what I'm looking for. Thanks agian every one. :smilie:

Stud fee's are looking cheaper and cheaper!!! :happy0203: lol

Might just be simpler and easier just to own a mare or two. I wouldn't want to breed any more than that any way and a lot of stallion owners would be willing to breed both mares just for choice of the foals. I've done that before and was very happy with the results.


You have all given me a lot to think about. Thanks agian. :happy0203:

Edited by Suniac, 21 February 2012 - 04:59 PM.

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#14 dondie

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:48 PM

Let's be honest here.
When some one uses the phrase "keep him as a stud"....Sirens go off, lights start flashing and people here at HC get real worried that someone is going to get seriously hurt or killed, by a horse.
Add in the words "I don't know" or "I don't have a clear plan" and HC people are running around waving their hands in the air and yelling "Danger! Danger! Will Robinson! Danger!"

Please answer a few questions about your back ground and your facilities to train and breed horses.
1. Where did you learn stallion & breeding management?
2. How many studs have you owned in the past?
3. Were/Are you a successful businessperson in showing, training, breeding, raising or eventing horses?
4. Do you own a licensed and insured breeding facility including stud barns with correct containment fencing, barns & pastures for quarantine and visiting mares & foals that meet your state & local laws?
5. Have you talked with a CPA to formulate a sound business plan that will be acceptable to the IRS and pass auditing laws so that your not hit with fines and penalties?
6. Do you have sufficient financial security set in place to offset all expenses incurred by your breeding enterprise for a minimum of three to four years until your stallion and his get have proven themselves in the show ring or other venues such as cutting or reining futurities?

If you can't answer "Yes" to all of these questions.
You need to start working and get everything in place. Before you even think about keeping and showing a stud.

The horse market is down.
Even owners of proven/winning Cremello & Perlino stallions with stellar bloodlines and get who have won awards and money ...are struggling...and lowering stud fees.

Stallion ownership is for the trained professional who knows what they are doing.
Anything else, is a disaster waiting to happen.
Sad, but true

Edited by dondie, 21 February 2012 - 05:52 PM.

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#15 Suniac

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:27 PM

I hear ya. I have been raising dairy steers for the past year and a half and running your own buisness is harder than it looks. We have changed a lot of things since our first year. I do apreciate the advise and believe it or not I totaly get where you are coming from.

You have all given me a lot to think about. Thanks agian. :smilie:
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#16 dondie

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:56 PM

I hear ya. I have been raising dairy steers for the past year and a half and running your own buisness is harder than it looks. We have changed a lot of things since our first year. I do apreciate the advise and believe it or not I totaly get where you are coming from.

You have all given me a lot to think about. Thanks agian. :smilie:

Welcome.
I'm so glad that your a level headed person with knowledge in managing a cattle program.

It is scary when people are so unprepared and jump into a breeding endeavor without knowledge or training. Owning & correctly managing a breeding stallion is a challenge that can harm or kill the unprepared.

Are there classes or a local breeding barn where you can get hands on training?
:smileywavey:
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#17 lopen28

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:06 PM

I agree with everyone else. You need a plan. You also need to ask yourself WHY you are going to breed. Just to get into "breeding reining horses"....that's a tough game. And if you want someone to purchase your babies for reining, you'd better do your research on bloodlines, what it takes mentally and physically for a horse to be prepared to show in reining successfully, and be sure the bloodlines are proven, top and bottom. Breeding for ability in a specific area is a crap shoot anyways...but breeding unproven to unproven will lessen the chances your horse will be successful at anything in particular....you SHOULD care that his sire hasn't done anything.

If I were you, I would do some heavy research aside from the business aspect of it. I would travel around and watch many reining trainers work horses...ask questions. Contact other big breeders of reining horses. Ask questions. Learn the bloodlines and become VERY familiar with them and what they've done. Look at big name studs and thier conformation, who they are built...watch videos of them and see how they move. Some big reining studs produce hotter headed horses that would be better open quality horses...some produce quieter, non-pro type horses. What kind of horse do you want to produce for your customers? Are you working on selling to a local market or a more widespread market? Look at reining horses for sale in different areas that you'd like to market to. See what they are selling for, what their bloodlines are and what kind of ability they have so you know what you're up against.

As for this particular horse....He IS young so it's hard to say in these pictures. But I see a horse that has a bigger chest than hip. If i want a horse with lots of stopping power, i want to see a good strong hip on that youngster, no matter what age. I an not a fan of his front legs in these pics either. Who knows if he's grown out of it yet but his front pasterns look long-ish to me and he looks a touch over at the knees. As for his bloodlines, his grandsire was big in the cutting pen, but according to allbreed, that's the onlything on top that's relatively close that's done anything. Cutting and reining are very different disciplines and the horses are typically bred a touch hotter...they need an "edge" to cut well. The bottom has nothing that speaks reining at all. I'd say a little pleasure blood with the Zippo Pat Bars. The docs Prescription earned a little in reining and cutting but that's so far back I wouldn't get to excited about it. Other than that, nothing really on the bottom.

The reining business is still a competitive market and if you want a GOOD stud....well, you should expect to spend a bit of money still. Quality stud colts in reining have held their value. When it comes to horses in general...cheaper is rarely better. Especially if you're going to breed it. Good luck in your stud shopping!
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#18 equi-librium

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:31 PM

based on the pictures.. its color breeding.

color NEVER comes over quality. its a bonus to have a pretty color.

a good horse is never a bad color. but there are LOTS of bad ones with pretty colors. inexperienced people see color first. and often times thats all they see..

not much of a pedigree, no real records on any of them... meaning he doesnt deserve his dangly bits. and hes yellow... :sick:
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#19 Wildkat

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:35 PM

dondie said "Let's be honest here.
When some one uses the phrase "keep him as a stud"....Sirens go off, lights start flashing and people here at HC get real worried that someone is going to get seriously hurt or killed, by a horse.
Add in the words "I don't know" or "I don't have a clear plan" and HC people are running around waving their hands in the air and yelling "Danger! Danger! Will Robinson! Danger!"

Honestly, I didn't even get as far as your post before I was doing this, I was doing it based on your subject line! This forum is a great place to ask questions of people who have been around horses, some professionally and for a very long time. My opinion (and this is free - you get what you pay for) is that, if you are posting on here asking about a stud prospect, and you haven't done your bloodlines homework, and you become defensive when you don't get the answer you want, then you need to wait until you have more scar tissue and experience before you own, campaign, and stand a stud. Raising "dairy steers" for a year and a half does not make you a horse breeder. And since this is an educational forum, and I'm ignorant about such things, what does one do with a dairy-bred castrated male bovine? Are they good to eat?

Edited by Wildkat, 22 February 2012 - 06:37 PM.


#20 Bryna

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:00 PM

Conformation wise, neither the colt or his sire look impressive to me -from what I can see. Which admittedly, isn't a ton. However, even if he were the best looking colt in the entire world, if I were looking for a breeding stallion, I would absolutely pass. The reason being, even if the colt does turn out to have ability, (even more of a gamble then usual, from unproven parents and a mixed pedigree), and you spend the money, find a good trainer and promote the heck out of him, and he actually makes good as a performance horse, you still will find few, if any, serious performance people willing to breed to him -because he doesn't have a pedigree that anyone will want to breed to. Since, even if everything goes right, it will cost you $20-30K in training before your reining prospect even sets foot in the show pen, saving money on the purchase price is false economy -unless you start out with a top bred prospect, you wont have even a prayer of getting your money back.
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#21 exes blue eyed devil

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:20 AM

Conformation wise, neither the colt or his sire look impressive to me -from what I can see. Which admittedly, isn't a ton. However, even if he were the best looking colt in the entire world, if I were looking for a breeding stallion, I would absolutely pass. The reason being, even if the colt does turn out to have ability, (even more of a gamble then usual, from unproven parents and a mixed pedigree), and you spend the money, find a good trainer and promote the heck out of him, and he actually makes good as a performance horse, you still will find few, if any, serious performance people willing to breed to him -because he doesn't have a pedigree that anyone will want to breed to. Since, even if everything goes right, it will cost you $20-30K in training before your reining prospect even sets foot in the show pen, saving money on the purchase price is false economy -unless you start out with a top bred prospect, you wont have even a prayer of getting your money back.



TOTALLY THIS^^^^^^
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#22 teampenninglady123

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:05 AM

The answers may be strong...but they are clear.

I see a unanimous...he ain't got much to be breeding for' in the answers of those who KNOW and have replied here.

Now, if you want to cut him and train him and have a pretty fun gelding that can bebop along with you in your horsey endeavors, to me, he seems to have just enough of a little bit of everything in him to make an all around ranch horse...a handy fella and a fun fella to have.

If you are 'showing or breeding' serious...I agree with all of above:

1. do homework
2. research
3. maybe find a breeding farm/ranch and get savvy on how it is done by watching and learning.
4. do homework again
5. then regroup and start the hunt for the stallion/mares.

6. and realize that this will cost cash...lots of cash...to do it right.

would anyone wish to elaborate on how much $$$ that means...once the stallion is bought? Just to get his namesake out there for people to want to breed with?
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#23 HollywoodStarlette

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:43 AM

I agree with all of the above and just want to add that a good stallion makes a GREAT gelding!

In the long run it is much more cost effective to bred a mare to your choice of top of line stallions. If you don't like that cross you can pick a differant one next time. Your not stuck with the commitment of your stallion.

Do your homework! Talk to top stallion owners in your area and in the discipline in which you interessed in. Intern at a breeding farm, learn all you can before you make that huge commitment.
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#24 cowgurlup1983

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:24 AM

I think your idea of owning and showing a few mares then breed them is the way to go. You can buy nice mares with good pedigree for next to nothing. Then train them and show them. Then breed them to pretty much any stallion you want

Honestly, I was not impressed by his sire at all. I my self have a stallion that is due to get gelded soon. He's got a great mind and personality and bred eh decently, I've also had 4 people ask to breed to him, he's 3, but honestly I just don't want to deal with it. He will be gelded and then get to live with the other geldings happy and healthy.

Really think about just owning a few well bred mares, you can get them for a good price.
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#25 coloredcowhorse

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:47 AM

Pedigree is ho-hum....top side of sire is pretty good for performance but bottom side is lacking. Just the opposite on the dam....top side really nothing exciting, bottom side a few recognizable horses but still nothing close up. In addition you would really want to test for HERDA carrier status as well as GBED and PSSM1.

Ideally one becomes involved in a discipline (reining, cutting, whatever)and eventually becomes involved in breeding for that discipline once one knows about the bloodlines and conformation and knows some of the trainers etc.

I have been involved in horses in cutting, reining, reined cowhorse bloodlines for nearly 35 years now and am looking at seriously cutting back if not quitting completely as there is virtually no market unless one has the very top bloodlines in the country. I have a few of those in my herd so am getting interest in purchases for my breeding animals but it took a long time and a lot of money to get to this point and I'm not one of the top breeders around despite the pedigrees. In addition ot having top stock you have to have a market and that sometimes means doing nearly anything to get young animals into the hands of trainers that can and will show them. THAT is a tough group to break into.

You can lease good mares right now for minimal cost without even having to buy them, ship them or care for them. Pay to get them bred, foaled out and the foal weaned and if you don't want to use the mare again you simply don't lease her for a second foal and don't have the hassle of trying to sell her. I have several that I'm doing this with (and offers of discounted stud fees by Silver Spurs Equine in AZ....and they own several of the top stallions in the country...Boomernic, Spooks Gotta Gun and 3-4 more...just bought the #3..I think he is....all time money earning reiner, a son of Boomernic out of a Smart Chic O'Lena/Hollywood Dun It mare).

Forget color unless you are looking at a color breed such as Paints....and even there, if you are looking to compete in NRHA, NRCHA or NCHA for instance, color doesn't matter and there are some great deals to be had on solid colored Paint foals that have really good bloodlines and just missed out on color. You can always go for color later...especially if you get a filly since you would then have your choice of stallions to breed to.

Edited by coloredcowhorse, 24 February 2012 - 10:48 AM.

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#26 Sorrel1

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:42 PM

If you are serious about reining, take a look at this site. http://www.brunerquarterhorses.com/

I know this gal and every one of those stallions that she stands has a show record with winnings. While her horses are primarily bred/used for cutting, they also have reining backgrounds/are shown in reining. And they are nice looking as a bonus. You are going to pay good money for a horse from her, but you know it is bred for what you want to do.

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#27 Kina Kat

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 02:47 PM

Pedigree is ho-hum....top side of sire is pretty good for performance but bottom side is lacking. Just the opposite on the dam....top side really nothing exciting, bottom side a few recognizable horses but still nothing close up. In addition you would really want to test for HERDA carrier status as well as GBED and PSSM1.

Ideally one becomes involved in a discipline (reining, cutting, whatever)and eventually becomes involved in breeding for that discipline once one knows about the bloodlines and conformation and knows some of the trainers etc.

I have been involved in horses in cutting, reining, reined cowhorse bloodlines for nearly 35 years now and am looking at seriously cutting back if not quitting completely as there is virtually no market unless one has the very top bloodlines in the country. I have a few of those in my herd so am getting interest in purchases for my breeding animals but it took a long time and a lot of money to get to this point and I'm not one of the top breeders around despite the pedigrees. In addition ot having top stock you have to have a market and that sometimes means doing nearly anything to get young animals into the hands of trainers that can and will show them. THAT is a tough group to break into.

You can lease good mares right now for minimal cost without even having to buy them, ship them or care for them. Pay to get them bred, foaled out and the foal weaned and if you don't want to use the mare again you simply don't lease her for a second foal and don't have the hassle of trying to sell her. I have several that I'm doing this with (and offers of discounted stud fees by Silver Spurs Equine in AZ....and they own several of the top stallions in the country...Boomernic, Spooks Gotta Gun and 3-4 more...just bought the #3..I think he is....all time money earning reiner, a son of Boomernic out of a Smart Chic O'Lena/Hollywood Dun It mare).

Forget color unless you are looking at a color breed such as Paints....and even there, if you are looking to compete in NRHA, NRCHA or NCHA for instance, color doesn't matter and there are some great deals to be had on solid colored Paint foals that have really good bloodlines and just missed out on color. You can always go for color later...especially if you get a filly since you would then have your choice of stallions to breed to.


It's good to hear your perspective. My impression is that breeding is a lot like acting: Very, very, very few people will make it big. The rest will probably lose money trying.



#28 Bryna

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:22 PM

It's good to hear your perspective. My impression is that breeding is a lot like acting: Very, very, very few people will make it big. The rest will probably lose money trying.


Very, very true. You can't really go into it thinking you're going to make money -at least not in the short term, and not without very significant investments of time, money and education. If you aren't truly passionate about horse breeding, and your particular goals with your program, find a hobby more likely to pay off, like slot machines. Of course, saying that breeding horses is likely to be a money losing activity is not the same thing as suggesting that you should approach it without a profit motive. Once in awhile to raise a foal for your own use, sure. But systematically raising foals without making any attempt to break even just makes things worse for everybody else.

Most important thing -do your homework, make a plan, interview more experienced individuals, consider all the factors: is the pedigree going to be saleable? Pedigree is also important for getting in with a top trainer. Does the cross work conformationally? Have possible genetic diseases been tested for? Do you have the money to keep probably several colts at once in training for 2-3 years? Think $750-1500+ per month, per horse, plus the costs of injections, supplements, farrier, vet, etc. This is important-until you develop something of a name, it may not be easy to sell colts as weanlings or yearlings, unless you managed to acquire an absolutely top flight mare (think 50K and up to purchase). You will probably have to train several from your fist few crops -realize that even when you have all the pieces in place, more than 50% of well bred babies in good programs never set foot in the show pen. Do you have access to a quality trainer that you trust? When purchasing stock for your program, start with the mares. The mare is more than 50% of the equation. A good dam line is very important -mares should either be money earners or producers themselves, or if a young mare that didn't get an opportunity to show, both sire and dam should be earners and/or producers. The time to look for a stallion is after you have built of a nice and relatively homogeneous band of broodmares, raised several foals up, got some shown and developed something of a market for your babies.



Willowvale Farm
Performance Quarter Horses
Disposition, Conformation, Performance.

Home of:
Annie (Skits Princess Anne), 1999 AQHA bay mare, bred to Bet Hesa Cat, due 3/18/12.
Sis (Sister Joaquin), 1994 AQHA grulla mare
Dusty (Dusty Nu Dawn), 2003 AQHA dun gelding
Nita (Haida Magical Night), 2006 AQHA black mare

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"Remember to be flexible, you'll bounce back every time."

#29 Bryna

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:29 PM

In addition ot having top stock you have to have a market and that sometimes means doing nearly anything to get young animals into the hands of trainers that can and will show them. THAT is a tough group to break into.


Completely true!

Some advice I've heard my trainer give people starting out in the breeding business, especially when attempting to promote their own stallions: Your first couple of foal crops, take the nicest several babies and GIVE them away to top trainers. This may represent a short term loss, but is a heck of a lot cheaper than paying to train them yourself. And if they are nice babies, and you have them in the hands of several different trainers, the word will get around. Buzz among trainers about the first couple of colt crops of a young stallion will make or break him. If the word gets out that he is putting nice, trainable babies on the ground, people will breed their good mares to him -if not, you might as well pack up and go home.



Willowvale Farm
Performance Quarter Horses
Disposition, Conformation, Performance.

Home of:
Annie (Skits Princess Anne), 1999 AQHA bay mare, bred to Bet Hesa Cat, due 3/18/12.
Sis (Sister Joaquin), 1994 AQHA grulla mare
Dusty (Dusty Nu Dawn), 2003 AQHA dun gelding
Nita (Haida Magical Night), 2006 AQHA black mare

---------------------------

"Remember to be flexible, you'll bounce back every time."

#30 Kina Kat

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:08 PM

Just took a look at your site, Bryna. You've got some lovely horses. Sure wish I were in a place to consider buying.