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A Once Sweet Easy To Ride Horse Now A Skittish Bucker...


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#1 Norcalracer88

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 01:27 AM

So my horse Seven (in siggy) has been undersaddle a few months over a year and has never had a single issue with bucking spooking or any of your typical issues he's been a dream to work with and ride, I've even started hauling him to local gymkhanas we won the High Point Championship in the FC 13&over class (didn't push him at all just worked on being calm and consistent in his turns no spurs or over under used nice)

Well last month Seven and I were in a demo with Chris Cox when he was spooked by the crowd applauding and I got dumped. Chris proceeded to work the tar out of Seven on the ground and undersaddle. It all seemed fine and dandy the crowd ate it up but IMO I couldnt stand what Chris was saying and nor did I agree with his training method.

Anyway I'm rambling back to my issue...ever since then my nice calm trusting sweet friendly gelding flinches with any sudden or fast movements (fixed that recently with desensitizing) and he bucks when lunged now saddle or not and kicks out in MY direction (I get after him by disengaging his HQ and making move his feet) I lunge him and RP before I even feel safe to get on ( I didn't ride for two weeks after cause I was scared of my once sweet horse). He backs away from me when he used to walk straight to me. The last 3 times I've worked with him its gotten slightly better I don't have to lunge AND RP before him now but still when i first get on I can feel him "hump" up his back and he tosses his head and prances like a pumped up barrel or roping horse getting ready for their run. I can usually get him under control with one rein stops and more disengaging HQs but his back still says up until about 20min into our ride when he finally calms down.

I'm continually getting discouraged when he acts this way when I can remember the first year of absolute bliss with him :-(

**he's been seen by a vet to rule out any pain and receives regular bodywork by myself and my teacher (I've been apprenticing my bodyworker for the past 3years) when she worked on him (2days after the demo) he was pretty messed up was seen once a week by my teacher but I did his "yoga" every day and last time she saw him was 2 wks ago and said he was in great shape and didn't have anything out of whack. Vet was out yesterday for teeth floating I had him give Seven another once over to just check and make sure he wasn't in pain and the same conclusion couldn't find anywhere he was sore**

What else is there to do? Will he eventually get over this?


Sorry for the novel Im just at a loss as to where to go next :'-(

Owned By
Decco Double O Cat "SEVEN" 5y/o APHA Gelding LOVE OF MY LIFE!!
Reggie 4yo female Bordercollie Aussie mix my agility prospect
Lucy 7y/o AKC Chow Chow my couch potato
Rosemarry 17y/o Black Cat my best friend RIP 1996-2013
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#2 WalkTrotCanter

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 08:35 AM

That really is a bummer :( I dont have much sound advice to give you but it sound like maybe some trust has gone backwards rather than forwards? Not your fault, just the way it went. When things like this happen to me ive been advised by more experienced trainer to start all over pretty much. It sucks and its a long road but it rebuilds the steps, foundation and training. Take thinks super slow under saddle practice walking exersize with ground poles or trail obstacles to keep his mind busy? Hope things work out for you!

#3 WalkTrotCanter

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 08:37 AM

another thought id have...could this horse have taken chris as his leader and now hes testing you again? I have no idea, but its just a thought that came to me.

#4 cowgirl4_him

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 10:35 AM

I had a young mare get like that after a friend (not a friend anymore) cowboyed around on her, reaching back to spank her to get her to go faster etc. Really ruined her for a while and she'd spook, bolt and overall too touchy and extra sensitive which made me nervous to ride her. I finally sent her to a friend who is a horse trainer for 30 days of ground work and desensitizing then another 30 days of riding. She was so perfect when I got her back, totally unflappable, no spooks, just perfect. This trainer does some of the mustang makeover competitions, trully talented, patient and gentle with the horses.

#5 fastfilly79

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 07:54 PM

not surprised to hear this. have had to deal with a few horses that have been ruined by 'professionals' or wannabe 'trainers'. like said above you are going to have to start over and back to basics. my guess is he is also over anticipating everything you're doing. i had a poor little mare that had 'reining training' by some dumb@$$ wannabe, every time i picked up a rein she would over anticipate what i was going to ask, so i would just have to drop the rein and ask her to just walk forward. what bit are you using? i had to drop back to a snaffle with the mare or light bosal. so sorry to hear your having to go through this! :huggy:

#6 Zoe84

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:13 AM

Agh the same thing happened to me!! I had an OTTB gelding who was a sweet, quiet guy for 3 years. I'd strapped him at the track since he was a yearling, till he was 2 1/2yo, then he went to the country to race for 6 months or so & I got him when he was finished when he was about 3/4yo. Did everything with him, trail riding, jumping, dressage etc. We were travelling along at a slow pace due to my time restraints and affording lessons etc, but I was very happy with our progress. But then we had a lesson with a up & coming eventer at the time (can't say he's not professional - he's now on the Olympic team for London) and he got stuck into me & my horse, said I wasn't working him hard enough, letting him slob along and he should be so much further along in training then he was. That one lesson ruined my horse for good. He started rearing in protest with this rider, and that was it, he never stopped. Rider hopped back on the plane to England, never giving us a second thought and I was left with my pride & joy fave. horse going up on me every time I put contact on the reins. It was terrible.
I won't tell you the rest of the story coz it didn't end well & I don't want to give you negative vibes.
All I can say is I'm so sorry this is happening and I really hope things get better. It is the worst thing seeing an animal that you know and love turn into something you don't even recognise :huggy: :(

#7 TXhorseman

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 09:46 AM

So my horse Seven (in siggy) has been undersaddle a few months over a year and has never had a single issue with bucking spooking or any of your typical issues he's been a dream to work with and ride, I've even started hauling him to local gymkhanas we won the High Point Championship in the FC 13&over class (didn't push him at all just worked on being calm and consistent in his turns no spurs or over under used nice)

Well last month Seven and I were in a demo with Chris Cox when he was spooked by the crowd applauding and I got dumped. Chris proceeded to work the tar out of Seven on the ground and undersaddle. It all seemed fine and dandy the crowd ate it up but IMO I couldnt stand what Chris was saying and nor did I agree with his training method.

Anyway I'm rambling back to my issue...ever since then my nice calm trusting sweet friendly gelding flinches with any sudden or fast movements (fixed that recently with desensitizing) and he bucks when lunged now saddle or not and kicks out in MY direction (I get after him by disengaging his HQ and making move his feet) I lunge him and RP before I even feel safe to get on ( I didn't ride for two weeks after cause I was scared of my once sweet horse). He backs away from me when he used to walk straight to me. The last 3 times I've worked with him its gotten slightly better I don't have to lunge AND RP before him now but still when i first get on I can feel him "hump" up his back and he tosses his head and prances like a pumped up barrel or roping horse getting ready for their run. I can usually get him under control with one rein stops and more disengaging HQs but his back still says up until about 20min into our ride when he finally calms down.

I'm continually getting discouraged when he acts this way when I can remember the first year of absolute bliss with him :-(

**he's been seen by a vet to rule out any pain and receives regular bodywork by myself and my teacher (I've been apprenticing my bodyworker for the past 3years) when she worked on him (2days after the demo) he was pretty messed up was seen once a week by my teacher but I did his "yoga" every day and last time she saw him was 2 wks ago and said he was in great shape and didn't have anything out of whack. Vet was out yesterday for teeth floating I had him give Seven another once over to just check and make sure he wasn't in pain and the same conclusion couldn't find anywhere he was sore**

What else is there to do? Will he eventually get over this?


Sorry for the novel Im just at a loss as to where to go next :'-(


A clinician is often tempted to perform a “quick fix” on a horse in a public situation. Spectators are impressed by “results” they can see. Having only been exposed to the horse for a very limited time, he can seldom discern the horse’s individual personality. Heavy handed methods can usually get the desired response from a horse if one does not care what happens emotionally to the horse. Wearing a horse out physically can certainly keep it from bucking.

It sounds as though your horse felt the trust he had given you was violated. He is now acting defensively. In such a case, one generally has two major options. You could try employing the methods used by the clinician. This could mean wearing your horse out physically each time before riding. Or, you could start over, trying to earn your horse’s trust once more. The second is the best, most rewarding, and longest-lasting route, but it may take some time. Every time a horse’s trust in people is violated, it is harder to regain that trust. Thankfully, horses are generally very forgiving.

It sounds as though you are on the right track, but it may help to take your training back a step or two.
Don Matschull
www.quietriding.com

#8 nick

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 01:54 PM

i'm not so sure. it sounds like your nice horse is ready to learn a little self-discipline--bucking you off because the crowd applauded sounds like either a) misjudgement on your part that the horse was ready for it, or B) the horse didn't trust you to take care of him no matter what happened in the first place.

either way, i wouldn't automatically blame chris cox, just like i don't blame ANYBODY for my horse behaving badly. the responsibility is MINE. my bet is that your horse is just having a wee bit of a temper tantrum (a little bit spoiled) and you just go through it with him, but you stay on the ground. don't get angry, just hang with him and be unimpressed and he'll cut it out. i do NOT think there is a loss of trust here, just the horse finding out he actually has to RESPECT the human. you have to earn it--hard to earn, easy to lose. good luck.
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#9 Smilie

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:02 PM

I'm gonna agree with Nick on this one.
Chris, being a professional, saw holes in your horse's training that you did not
Your horse should not have bucked you off just because the crowd applauded , or you should have had enough body control on the horse to keep his mind with you, in a strange situation
Many times horses, just because they are fairly trusting and forgiving, let people start them under saddle, that maybe haven't started that many horses in their life, but then when someone really pushes them beyond their comfort zone, they explode.
Sorry, but when I hear people describe their horse as 'sweet' , my first impression is 'barnyard pet' Many one one horses fall into this classification.
Chris has a lot of experience reading horses, as you have to be able to do that when taking part in colt starting clinics, and I suspect he saw some lack of respect that you probably missed. Yes, in a clinic situation, he might have tried to work through the problem quicker than if he had the horse in training, because of the time factor, and lets face it, even people like Stacy Westfall will remind people what they see at colt starting clinics, far as how much is asked of those un broke horses in that short time span, is not what their usual training program is all about
Instead of blaming the clinic experience, i would go back and see what holes are there, that had your horse buck you off in the first place

Edited by Smilie, 15 July 2012 - 06:04 PM.

Raising attractive , athletic Appaloosas, equally at home in the show ring and on the open trails
Cody Chrome Supreme member of the breed( superiors in trail,halter western pleasure hunter under saddle )
San Stone Image superiors in reining, western riding and trail
Miss Kilo Bright ApHC championship ROMs western pl, trail, HUS , hunter in hand, halter
A New Dimension three year old filly presently working with
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Frankie hubby's senior trail horse
Rubix Hubby's jr trail horse
Dont Skip The Cadence by don't Skip This chip-three year old in training Sold
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#10 TXhorseman

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:15 AM

Nick and Smilie bring up some good points. It is often easy to think a horse is well trained if he has not been asked for too much. However, exposing a horse to too much, too fast can have a deleterious effect.

Some people equate obedience with respect. I don't. I may obey a boss, but that doesn't mean I respect him. I find a very close relationship between trust and respect. I would work much better for a boss I trusted and respected than I would for one I simply feared. I might do what both ask of me, but I would do even more than what was asked for the one I both trusted and respected.
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#11 Smilie

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:38 AM

I agree that trust is a big factor, and what helps a horse over ride his instinctive flight response.
Also, I think a young horse should have lots of basics and slow type of show work, before ever gaming them
Raising attractive , athletic Appaloosas, equally at home in the show ring and on the open trails
Cody Chrome Supreme member of the breed( superiors in trail,halter western pleasure hunter under saddle )
San Stone Image superiors in reining, western riding and trail
Miss Kilo Bright ApHC championship ROMs western pl, trail, HUS , hunter in hand, halter
A New Dimension three year old filly presently working with
Awarded With love 6 year old mare by Awarded, riding well and proven producer
Frankie hubby's senior trail horse
Rubix Hubby's jr trail horse
Dont Skip The Cadence by don't Skip This chip-three year old in training Sold
Mex , Dun Boy and Image, three yr old prospects

http://s335.photobuc...home/KiloBright

#12 Norcalracer88

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 04:35 AM

I don't disagree that there are a few holes in the training I've done and I wont try to make any excuses for that. As far as being a "barnyard pet" I strongly have to disagree with that, BUT I understand where you're coming from. I do find it hard to understand how you can make that assumption without seeing or working with my horse so maybe our definition of the word "sweet" means two different things when describing a horse.

I have definitely gone back to basics and also working with my trainer again to help me with the holes I've forgotten about. We've had some progress today, went back to the roundpen for the better part of our ride. We worked on transitions and direction changes before I got on. Then proceeded to work on lateral flexion and getting control of his body parts. It all went surprisingly smooth and the only time he gave me a fuss was when we were leg yielding to the gate and opening it. He wanted to just rush out of the gate so we did some more roundpen work like turning into the fence by the gate then walking off calmly and relaxing at the opposite end of the gate. After that I could walk him past the gate on a loose rein and he didn't try to head out until I said it was ok. So I figured since I hadn't ridden him in the indoor arena in a while and just in the outdoor I would try my hand at the "scary indoor" and it went really good. He isn't as forward in the indoor arena as he is in the outdoor, but I liked that he was a little more reserved with his speed today and wasn't as high strung.


It's amazing how much your own attitude going into a training session really effects your horses attitude and I think that was a huge lesson for me to learn today as a young woman who wants training to be a huge part in my life. I sat and reflected back on how I was mentally before my previous sessions and even at the demo and I was a nervous wreck. Today before I started with Seven I told myself(and him! :crazy: ) that I had to leave my nerves at the door and just be confident in myself and him and everything would work out and I feel as if it really did.

Sometimes it just takes having a conversation with your horse to "see the light at the end of the tunnel" so to speak...oh and the crazy looks for talking to him from the other barn goers helped a little too haha :crazy:

Thank you everyone :huggy: I have a feeling more good posts are to come and I hope y'all don't mind if I post how my rides go every now and then. The good and any not so good that may occur. Even though I'm working with my trainer again it's always good to get outside opinions from my HC friends :smileywavey: :smileywavey:

Thanks again oh and sorry for another novel I just got carried away from my good,no issues ride :happy0203: :yay:


ETA: As far as gaming him goes, I maybe went faster than a trot twice the entire show. He has a very large, yet controlled, trot and most of the people I was up against were either just starting out new horses in gymkhana(like me) or just didn't know what they were doing and just having fun. I hadn't even planned on paying to go for points, but I figured what the heck. We didn't win highpoint for going fast we won for being consistent and controlled. Whereas some were making their horses go fast but making mistakes and in turn causing them to loose time or get penalties. So please don't assume that just because I have hauled him to a show or two that I just intend to start running him into the ground. I could care less about winning titles, buckles, saddles, and cash that will all come in good time. All I care about is me and my horse having a good time and so far so good.

Edited by Norcalracer88, 18 July 2012 - 04:46 AM.

Owned By
Decco Double O Cat "SEVEN" 5y/o APHA Gelding LOVE OF MY LIFE!!
Reggie 4yo female Bordercollie Aussie mix my agility prospect
Lucy 7y/o AKC Chow Chow my couch potato
Rosemarry 17y/o Black Cat my best friend RIP 1996-2013
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#13 TXhorseman

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 06:38 AM

I am glad to hear how well things went for you Norcalracer88.

Attitude and emotions have a great effect on how things go with a horse. Horses are so much more attuned to such things than we are. I am currently reviewing "The Riding Teacher" by Alois Podhajsky who was both a cavalry instructor and, later, the director of the Spanish Riding School in Vienna for 26 years. He emphasizes how important it is for the riding teacher to remain calm and for him to instill this trait into his students. I have found that firm persistence is much more effective than forceful actions. As Podhajsky points out, you may get obedience from the later action but the horse will not display the grace and joy in his work that you see in one that is working of his own free will. I was at a low level horse show once and felt compelled to approach one rider afterwards. I told her what a pleasure I felt in watching her and her horse working together. Her horse was the only one at the show that looked like he was "wanting" to do what he was asked. She told me that it took six years to get him to that point, but that she had refused to rush him. I replied, "So what if it took six years? It might take a lifetime. It is how you make the journey that is important."

Working with your own horse, you can enjoy the benefit of not having to feel pressured to perform. Work towards perfection,but not at all cost. Always consider your horse and you will find that your own life improves.
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#14 nick

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 02:15 PM

^^this. and if you take the time it takes, it takes LESS TIME.

read that book txhorseman. i've been to the spanish riding school. pretty incredible. NOBODY is in a hurry to do ANYTHING--they just WAIT until the horse figures it out and decides for himself, (all stallions) but they really have the attitude if it takes three days or weeks or months or years, who cares? has a pretty amazing effect on the level of progress.
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#15 Cactus Rose

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 03:14 PM

....just having a look.

How old is this horse?

Under five?

I'm thinking that perhaps there was a random circumstance (clapping or whatever) that was the catalyst for the horse to act up. He might have even been kind of LOOKING for something to booger at.....to get out of work......to give you the middle hoof.

Although the clinician may have used duct tape to get results at the event - I can't say as I would blame him in any way for what you are seeing now.

I would bet that the horse is sensing your tenseness.....is not willing to give you respect......is starting to feel his oats.....he had grabbed that inch and is now trying to push you a mile.

Rather than get back on again and again letting him repeat the behaviour, you MAY even be advised to let a trainer or more experienced rider get on him for the next week or two just to break this........this.........."habit"..........that may be developing.

If you can't change what YOU are doing (because of fear, experience or nerves) it means you are not going to be able to change/improve the horse.
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#16 Cheri Wolfe

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:59 PM

The applause that set him off was not something planned by Chris, you or the horse. But, once it happened and your horse reacted badly, it was what it was.

I think Chris did the best (and only) thing he could do once it was done. I think the only problem was that you did not try to continue the lesson for several days. A 'one time' experience can really set any horse off (even one with a good foundation). The key to it not becoming the one thing that defines the horse is to repeat the lesson day after day until the horse learns to accept it.

The more 'broke' a horse is, the better the chance of having the horse yield to a 'one rein stop' or the 'hind quarter disengagement'. Any 'holes' in a horse's foundation come to bite any of us if the unexpected happens.

I had a horse once that I was riding along a busy road. He was always very good in traffic, never spooking as big trucks, tractors and big farm equipment passed, loads with loose tarps, anything. One day, a truck had a blow-out, slung a huge piece of rubber off the tire and it almost hit us. This horse got over it somewhat, but was never as comfortable as trucks approached. It did the most good to tie him out for hours at a time to the fence bordering the busy US highway we live along. Before that, he never flinched at anything going by.

If this were my horse, I would take him to playdays, practice ropings, any place that is very busy with lots of noise and many strange horse. The reining associations set up 'paid works' where you take young reining horses headed for the futurities or new to showing. They have sound tracks from big shows with music, announcers and lots of applause playing through the sound systems. It is best to just tie one up and ignore it and let it stand tied until it goes to sleep (resting a hind foot). It is called 'seasoning' one. This horse had had no seasoning of any kind. One could expect that anything out of the norm for him could set him off -- and it did.

Edited by Cheri Wolfe, 18 July 2012 - 09:03 PM.


#17 Floridacracker

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 12:10 PM

Cherie, your experience reminds me of something that happened years ago to me.We had a two year that we decided to try and get some halter points on before riding her.Back then,they could halter first & then ride.We thought she would be a good prospect anyway. We had hauled her to some small local shows and a few D grade Breed shows.We decided to take her to Tampa when the futurity show in February was going on and of course our State fair. Got her off the trailer and all H broke loose.Don't know if you showed there for clients, but if so you know the stalls and parking were super close to the fair activity, rides, sounds and just general high level activity of all sorts. this heightened this horses comfort zone by three fold.We were there for the week and of course the horses were stalled right close to the fair. So, by the end of the week they pretty much took all this in stride. I could have lead her down the midway by then.The police do this each year at the fair to work on their Cert.training.Often times it's easy to underestimate how relevant mental pressure can have on our horses.Just like us some folks deal with it better than others, and others take everything in stride.

#18 EscapetoAspen

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 05:57 PM

I would rule out any medical issues and have the veterinarian out, maybe something happened when you weren't there and it was right after the clinic. He could be sore or otherwise in his back. Behaviorally I would recommend working natural horsemanship methods with him and gaining his respect on the ground showing yourself as the leader and immediately reprimanded any undesirable behavior. While riding there are many exercises you can do to engage your horses mind and keep him focuses on the task at hand. Try labrynths and poles, serpentines, leg yields etc. Just because you are on top of the horse doesn't mean you've lost control. A forward moving horse cannot stop to get the momentum needed for a good buck. Bending of the head and neck in stretchs also helps in their flexibility but doesn't allow for the bucking. Our first instinct when something goes wrong is to pull back and try to stop. However in the case of bucking this gives the horse more time to gather themselves up and get that good buck going. Instead have a steady deep seat (being a bit behind the vertical gives you a safety seat and you'll be going nowhere no matter what) and push him forward. Get his mind focused elsewhere and the bucking will stop and the trust will grow. Good luck!

#19 qheventer

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 04:10 PM

You've gotten some great food for thought. And I agree -- Chris probably did as good as anybody could with the situation that happened in the environment that it happened and the amount of time that he had.

I'd only like to add that you don't really know who your horse really is or how well they're really trained until you've pushed all the buttons. It's always the buttons we don't push that suprise us and show up our problems in our training. You really have to push on a horse to find the buttons that set them off and sometimes they do reveal a horse or lack of training we didn't realize was there.

One thing that I would do --- I would contact Chris Cox and tell him what's going on and how you feel and what you've observed. I think it could benefit you both if you did that.

I will say this too ----- it's a rare horse that doesn't take advantage of person's fear or lack of assertiveness. And the smarter the horse, the more advantage they take and the easier they pick up on fear. I would say, from your post, your horse is picking up on your apprehension. He's either doing one of two things -- he's either taking full advantage of it and giving you the middle hoof, or he needs someone to lead and you're not so he's taking the lead.

Good luck & be safe!
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#20 Smilie

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 05:52 PM

Sorry about the gymkana comment, but I am not familiar with shows where there is a trot type gymkana-the horses are run-all out .So when you stated your horse was a hi pt games champion, I never figured on a level of compitition where that was possible, just trotting!
What I do see often, is young horses asked to run those patterns before they have basic good body control, thus able to run them at speed off of seat and legs and not by heavy hands , jerking on the reins. I see so many kids in particular at the all breed level, that would benefit from basic equitation classes and classes that take finesse, versus speed-like trail, before ever running games
I have also seen riders bucked off when the audience appaulds the placings, esp if they are not in the placing and their horse has to wait fro the other horses to exit the arena first. What I focused on was you stating that Chris Cox somehow ruined your horse ,that was 'so well trained before
One never knows how well a horse is trained until he is pushed way beyond his comfort zone
For instance, when my gelding Einstein was two, I was giving a demo on starting a pleasure horse at Spruce Meadows, during the Masters. Anyone who has ever been there, knows the things ahorse is exposed to-marching bands, heavy horse hitches, INternational show jumping, huge trade fair, tons of people, etc, etc
Anyway, this ws an extremely quiet two year old, but they sent me to the sand ring to warm up, where the driving horses were also warming up. My horse had never seen driving horses. It took a half hour of lunging before I could get on him
Once inside the demo ring, he was his usual calm self.
I also did a reining demo there once, on my App reining bred mare. All the demo horses had to go in the parade in the InternaTIONAL RING in the evening.My horse was right behind some lamas, animals she had never seen. There were marching bands, many prancing show jumpers with coolers on, huge crowds, big heavy horse hitches-and yes, she was somewhat excited, but she was also broke, so handled the situation
Taking a green horse out lots, is very valuable. In fact, I would forget about showing him at the moment. Just take him along, and tie him up to watch the sights, and just ride him in the arena during breaks
Raising attractive , athletic Appaloosas, equally at home in the show ring and on the open trails
Cody Chrome Supreme member of the breed( superiors in trail,halter western pleasure hunter under saddle )
San Stone Image superiors in reining, western riding and trail
Miss Kilo Bright ApHC championship ROMs western pl, trail, HUS , hunter in hand, halter
A New Dimension three year old filly presently working with
Awarded With love 6 year old mare by Awarded, riding well and proven producer
Frankie hubby's senior trail horse
Rubix Hubby's jr trail horse
Dont Skip The Cadence by don't Skip This chip-three year old in training Sold
Mex , Dun Boy and Image, three yr old prospects

http://s335.photobuc...home/KiloBright

#21 LassieLu

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:53 AM

I just read an article in one of my horse magazines yesterday that discussed this very same thing! Will have to find it for you.

Essentially, the horse was actually being overfaced with the training/work, and I want to say got into a nasty habit of bolting. Lots of trainers, and vets were consulted, and finally she was about to donate the horse to a vet school. Someone there finally figured out the problem.

The horse had to be 'restarted' so to speak, and always end on a good note, however short of a lesson. Horse regained trust, relearned the 'right answers', and could finally function. Went on to win at shows again. Was a great article. I'll try to find it tomorrow, (my beloved family horse is being picked up to go to his new 'family' tomorrow, so I can't promise that I will be in the right frame of mind to remember . ). Maybe it will have some info that can help. Good luck!!!
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#22 lovemacy

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 05:48 PM

Was your horse in the clinic at the expo?


#23 LassieLu

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 07:48 PM

Ok, its the Horse & Rider August 2012 issue, page 62, called "Keeping Kelly" - a chronically spooky western pleasure mare is almost given aware before her problem, at long last, is solved. By Rita Simonetta, with Sue M. Copeland

Definitely worth reading
When you're young and you fall off a horse, you may break something. When you're my age and you fall off, you splatter. - Roy Rogers

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#24 SpottedTApps

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 08:06 AM

Smilie, the CGA (California Gymkhana Association) has an AWESOME set up in that they run in brackets. It is split between the AAA, AA, A & FC (future champions). This way, like leveled horse/rider pairs compete against each other. The fastest compete against the fastest and the slowest against the slowest. This is FABULOUS because people aren't pressured to go faster than they or their horses are ready for.

I've tried to get it going back here in FL, but everyone is stuck in their "age group" mindset and do not want to run in the brackets. So you have a brand new 10 year old rider competing against a 10 yr old who has ridden her whole life and the the new rider feels the need to "run faster" just to get that ribbon.

Sigh.
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#25 dondie

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 05:33 AM

Hi Norcal.
I was at the Chris Cox demo when Seven came unglued and blew up into a series of huge airborne bucks across the width of the arena. You were bucked off about ten feet from where I was sitting in the front row. To be honest, I thought Seven was so out of control that the two of you were going to hit square into the high wall of the arena. When you went off, it pulled Seven's head to one side and that pulled his head at enough of an angle that the next buck took him closer to parallel to the fence instead of straight into it. Even before you were introduced and the audience clapped, Seven was wound up tight and you were having to circle him and hold tight to the reins.

What Chris said about Seven's behavior was that the horse didn't have the natural emotional control to deal with high pressure situations and that he didn't believe that Seven would make a good barrel racing or gaming horse. Because the mental stresses and demands of barrel racing would be detrimental and too much for Seven to handle.
He also said that Seven had some serious training holes and you needed to work with a professional to over come them.
He also said that he would have liked to work Seven in a round pen for a few minutes to bring his mind around and have a snaffle and different saddle on him.
Didn't you have tape wrapped around the buckles on the fenders so that he couldn't adjust the length of the stirrups? Or was it the other girl?
If I remember right he said that colts at his ranch had more of a handle on them at 90 days then Seven had at a year of riding. Because he doesn't believe in pushing them into work that they weren't emotionally or physically able to handle.
He suggested that Seven could be a good riding, ranch or low key Team Sorting horse with time since Seven has athletic talent.

Chris didn't hard ride Seven.
Seven was determined to shed a second rider and was doing his best to get Chris off.
When Seven got it together emotionally.
Chris worked on to getting Seven to disengage the hind quarters and work on turning. Eventually, he got Seven to come down from being mentally out of control and over reactive. Seven's head went from nose high and up in the air to collected and relaxed on a loose rein.
The energy and action was coming from Seven.
I've never seen Chris Cox in person and I was impressed at how controlled and quiet his hands and body were. He used just enough energy to get the job done.
More like a Dressage rider than any Cowboy I'd ever seen.
When I bought his book that day and read that he'd grown up on an island off the coast of Australia. The English/Western actions fell into place

Edited by dondie, 29 July 2012 - 05:37 AM.

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#26 arena run

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 11:18 AM

I have read this thread w/interest.

I think this third-party/observer description of the event is very believable and closest to the truth. Truth has a tendency to hurt sometimes. :(

I also agree that when a horse is described as "sweet and quiet", it generaly means they are dominant, lazy or unexpressive, and have never been pushed out of their own self-established comfort zone. When things go south, their dominance explodes and the unexpressed become expressed pretty quickly, and usually in a big way. I have a gelding just like that. He is super sweet and quiet and the easiest thing in the world to be around -- but when he gets pushed past where he feels comfortable (ie, he doesn't get his own way) the gloves are off.

He is slowly and steadily coming along in his training, but something I have found that seems to work with some of the more hard-to-deal-with types is to push until I hit the right (or the wrong) button, then work through that issue and show them a better way to handle it, then back up a few steps and re-establish the relationship... then push til I hit the button again, work through that and show them the better way STILL works, then back up a few steps, rinse, repeat.

I hope you find some help for you and Seven. He sounds like quite a hand full. :) Be safe!

Edited by arena run, 02 August 2012 - 11:20 AM.


#27 Smilie

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:38 PM

Hi Norcal.
I was at the Chris Cox demo when Seven came unglued and blew up into a series of huge airborne bucks across the width of the arena. You were bucked off about ten feet from where I was sitting in the front row. To be honest, I thought Seven was so out of control that the two of you were going to hit square into the high wall of the arena. When you went off, it pulled Seven's head to one side and that pulled his head at enough of an angle that the next buck took him closer to parallel to the fence instead of straight into it. Even before you were introduced and the audience clapped, Seven was wound up tight and you were having to circle him and hold tight to the reins.

What Chris said about Seven's behavior was that the horse didn't have the natural emotional control to deal with high pressure situations and that he didn't believe that Seven would make a good barrel racing or gaming horse. Because the mental stresses and demands of barrel racing would be detrimental and too much for Seven to handle.
He also said that Seven had some serious training holes and you needed to work with a professional to over come them.
He also said that he would have liked to work Seven in a round pen for a few minutes to bring his mind around and have a snaffle and different saddle on him.
Didn't you have tape wrapped around the buckles on the fenders so that he couldn't adjust the length of the stirrups? Or was it the other girl?
If I remember right he said that colts at his ranch had more of a handle on them at 90 days then Seven had at a year of riding. Because he doesn't believe in pushing them into work that they weren't emotionally or physically able to handle.
He suggested that Seven could be a good riding, ranch or low key Team Sorting horse with time since Seven has athletic talent.

Chris didn't hard ride Seven.
Seven was determined to shed a second rider and was doing his best to get Chris off.
When Seven got it together emotionally.
Chris worked on to getting Seven to disengage the hind quarters and work on turning. Eventually, he got Seven to come down from being mentally out of control and over reactive. Seven's head went from nose high and up in the air to collected and relaxed on a loose rein.
The energy and action was coming from Seven.
I've never seen Chris Cox in person and I was impressed at how controlled and quiet his hands and body were. He used just enough energy to get the job done.
More like a Dressage rider than any Cowboy I'd ever seen.
When I bought his book that day and read that he'd grown up on an island off the coast of Australia. The English/Western actions fell into place



Thanks for that observation from another perspective, and personnally watching that clinic
It sure matches the impression I got, reading between the OP's lines, and having watched some Chris Cox DVDs!
Raising attractive , athletic Appaloosas, equally at home in the show ring and on the open trails
Cody Chrome Supreme member of the breed( superiors in trail,halter western pleasure hunter under saddle )
San Stone Image superiors in reining, western riding and trail
Miss Kilo Bright ApHC championship ROMs western pl, trail, HUS , hunter in hand, halter
A New Dimension three year old filly presently working with
Awarded With love 6 year old mare by Awarded, riding well and proven producer
Frankie hubby's senior trail horse
Rubix Hubby's jr trail horse
Dont Skip The Cadence by don't Skip This chip-three year old in training Sold
Mex , Dun Boy and Image, three yr old prospects

http://s335.photobuc...home/KiloBright