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'Scoping horses nose...CVM? (update, vet was out)


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#1 Arabianmom85

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 08:27 PM

Here is the story. Near the end of January, my horse started to get some trickling bloody noses on and off. Called the vet talked to her, about what it possibly could be. The next day she came out and did a respitory exam (feb. 6) We decided not to scope him at that time. I was going to keep a log of when he had one and report back to her. The nose bleeds stopped the following week. Then there was nothing for about 5 days, then the eye on the same side started weeping. He always has "eye boggies" on that side and it has started to result in hair loss. Called the vet today and she is alittle concerned now. He is not sensitive to light, eye is not red or inflamed, and he isn't painful. She is coming out tomorrow night (Mar 14) to recheck and now we will likely do the scope.

So what do you guys thinks of this situation? And what are the pros and cons of scoping? Is there anything "side effects" of scoping that I need to worry about?

Thanks again

[ 03-14-2006, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Arabianmom85 ]

#2 ..::Felda::..

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 08:59 PM

The old hunter barn that I used to work at had a strangles outbreak after going to a show. It swept through the entire barn. One of the horses started exhibiting signs just like this after most of the horses had gotten over the outbreak. Horse was scoped and ended up being hauled off to a clinic to spend a few nights in quarantine. I don't know exaclty what was wrong with him, but his gutteral pouch was extremely inflamed.

#3 ringersuz

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 12:57 AM

After James had his vac. the end of January, he exhibited strangles like symptoms. After the nasal swab came back negative, one of the steps my vet did was to scope him to get a better view of his throat looking for a possible abcessed lymph. He was sedated for the scope, but had no problems with it during or after - no side effects if you will. He wasn't thrilled with the initial insertion of the tube, but the scope went smoothly after the insertion.

It was a fairly quick and easy procedure.

I hope your vet is able to figure out the problem. It's heck having an illness that's hard to diagnosis.

Keep us posted.

#4 screaminghawk2000

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 01:46 AM

My little yearling has been scoped 6 times from the time he was 4 months old up until about 3 weeks ago. He had a gutteral pouch infection and has had his pouches flushed out with antibiotics several times. Theve been "up there" a lot and he has never had any side effects. It'a pretty common procedure and is your best shot at finding and fixing the problem. Good luck!

#5 Cactus Rose

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 10:38 AM

....I'd go for it.

Any procedure that might give you a more definitive diagnosis - is better in the long run.

Otherwise you may be just be throwing money and antibiotics at the wall in a shotgun effect.

My 3 year old was scoped this past year. She had happy drugs and could have cared less. There were no negative side repercussions.

CR

#6 burnin_3_barrels

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 05:22 PM

My soon to be 4 yr old was scoped in the fall for ulcers and she was fine.

#7 Arabianmom85

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 08:14 PM

well, my vet ended up having an emergency tonight. (she in on call tonight) anyway, canceled the appt at 6:30. She may still beable to come out but not until 8ish, if no other emerg. calls come in. Or we will have to reschedule.

#8 Arabianmom85

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 11:05 PM

Dr. Huffman ended up coming out about 8:00. We sedated Guff. She noticed that on the right side below his eye and what would be along his tear duct "tube" there was a lump, raised very little, but about the size of a ping pong ball. (can't believe I didn't notice it before)Anyway, she started out trying to flush his tear duct- from the bottom up we had decent amount of trouble getting the saline to move through the tube then from his eye down the saline drained fairly easy. Then we scoped his nasal passage. She went to the back of his throat (where everything comes together) and moved out slowly looking at all the areas inside. Well, she didn't seen anything alarming. But is still concerned about the lump under his eye. We had talked about possible trama to his head (back when he had the nose bleeds) and again today (might be calcium deposit?).

Here are the options she came up with. 1)wait and see if anything changes with bump/ nosebleeds/ eye discharge, 2) have her come back out and x-ray (she didn't have the machine with her tonight)

And here are some poss. Dx- 1) trama/ calcium depsit 2) mass/ deformity in tearduct or near tearduct, causing a narrowing of tube or 3) E__?___ Hematoma (not sure of full name) that may be in a fold or area within the nasal cavity that she couldn't see with the scope or it is just tiny enough to not be pushing in toward the nasel cavity and just pushing outward causing the bump.

She didn't put any restrictions on he activiy, wants me to continue using him as I have been.

So, what does everybody think? Have you ever had experience with any of these problems? And what would be your next step?

Thanks guys. This thing is starting to stress me out [Confused] . Most of me wants to run tests and x-rays, but the other part is saying wait and see. Dr. said the scientist part of her says lets do the x-rays and search deeper for an answer. She also said we may not get the answer we are looking for but we will beable to cross a few more things off the list. [Surrender]

Thanks again.

[ 03-14-2006, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Arabianmom85 ]

#9 ..::Felda::..

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 11:11 PM

Wow. It sounds like it will be more aggrivating having to sit and wait for anything to change internally with him. It's too bad it isn't something you can just knock out with some antibiotics, but then, that would make it too easy.

#10 screaminghawk2000

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 01:52 AM

If you can afford it, I'd go further. Can she take it out?

#11 Arabianmom85

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 11:33 PM

I think tomorrow I am going to call to see when she can come out and x-ray him.

If it is the hematoma thing up there, I will probably have to go to a university or referral center to have surgery. But at this point that is worst case senario.

I wonder what CVM thinks, if she is out there and not too busy yet will foaling season [Wink] .

#12 cvm2002

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 11:42 PM

Ethmoid hematomas shouldn't be that difficult to find. They don't "hide" in the nasal folds at all, since they are ONLY found over the ethmoid bone. They don't cause deformity either. Did you scope inside the guttural pouches too?? That's a pretty important spot that should've been checked.

With a lump under the eye and a history of nose bleeds, a full oral evaluation and skull x-rays should be next on the list...

#13 Arabianmom85

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 11:04 AM

CVM- I talked to my vet and I missed understood her about the Ethmoid hematomas and poss. being another mass/ deformity of some sort. Thanks for bringing that up- now I am set straight. [Duh] As for the Gutterol pouches- She didn't "drive" down into them, but had looked at the opennings and didn't see any drainage or anything to make her want to "drive" the scope into them.

I did set up an appt to get x-rays done.

Thanks CVM [Smiley Wavey]

#14 Boocoo

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 12:49 AM

Are Guttural Poucn infections contagious to other horses?

#15 Arabianmom85

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 10:22 PM

Hmm, i don't know. Good queston hopefully someone esle knows the answer.

#16 Boocoo

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 12:09 AM

I am wondering, cause there is a girl at my barn who says her mare has one???

#17 screaminghawk2000

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Posted 22 March 2006 - 02:12 AM

Our colt's infection was caused by Strep Zooepidemicus and initially caused the same symptoms as strangles but it is a close cousin of that and a lot more low grade. It does cause abortion in mares though and so one vet said because we couldn't rid of it we should put him down as it would infect our mares and the whole farm. Then a vet at the university said most horses have it naturally in their systems as part of their normal flora and fauna and are immune to it. He said for him to pass it on to another horse, he would have to blow his snot directly in their nose, they would have to inhale it perfectly and be so immune compromised that their system could not beat it. Even if they ate or drank food or water with the not in it, their digestive systems would kill it. Foals are susceptible to it because their immune systems are immature so we will keep him away from next year's foals though. He has been kept with all our other horses and there has been no problem. I think it depends on the infection. I would imagine a lot of horses that get pouch infections are immune compromised as it has to be pretty bad and back up into the pouches in order to cause an infection there. It sure would be nice if CVM or another vet could elaborate though as I'm not a vet and only know this little bit about it because I was unfortunate enough to have to learn about it.

#18 Arabianmom85

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 08:27 PM

Here is the story. Near the end of January, my horse started to get some trickling bloody noses on and off. Called the vet talked to her, about what it possibly could be. The next day she came out and did a respitory exam (feb. 6) We decided not to scope him at that time. I was going to keep a log of when he had one and report back to her. The nose bleeds stopped the following week. Then there was nothing for about 5 days, then the eye on the same side started weeping. He always has "eye boggies" on that side and it has started to result in hair loss. Called the vet today and she is alittle concerned now. He is not sensitive to light, eye is not red or inflamed, and he isn't painful. She is coming out tomorrow night (Mar 14) to recheck and now we will likely do the scope.

So what do you guys thinks of this situation? And what are the pros and cons of scoping? Is there anything "side effects" of scoping that I need to worry about?

Thanks again

[ 03-14-2006, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Arabianmom85 ]

#19 ..::Felda::..

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 08:59 PM

The old hunter barn that I used to work at had a strangles outbreak after going to a show. It swept through the entire barn. One of the horses started exhibiting signs just like this after most of the horses had gotten over the outbreak. Horse was scoped and ended up being hauled off to a clinic to spend a few nights in quarantine. I don't know exaclty what was wrong with him, but his gutteral pouch was extremely inflamed.

#20 ringersuz

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 12:57 AM

After James had his vac. the end of January, he exhibited strangles like symptoms. After the nasal swab came back negative, one of the steps my vet did was to scope him to get a better view of his throat looking for a possible abcessed lymph. He was sedated for the scope, but had no problems with it during or after - no side effects if you will. He wasn't thrilled with the initial insertion of the tube, but the scope went smoothly after the insertion.

It was a fairly quick and easy procedure.

I hope your vet is able to figure out the problem. It's heck having an illness that's hard to diagnosis.

Keep us posted.

#21 screaminghawk2000

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 01:46 AM

My little yearling has been scoped 6 times from the time he was 4 months old up until about 3 weeks ago. He had a gutteral pouch infection and has had his pouches flushed out with antibiotics several times. Theve been "up there" a lot and he has never had any side effects. It'a pretty common procedure and is your best shot at finding and fixing the problem. Good luck!

#22 Cactus Rose

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 10:38 AM

....I'd go for it.

Any procedure that might give you a more definitive diagnosis - is better in the long run.

Otherwise you may be just be throwing money and antibiotics at the wall in a shotgun effect.

My 3 year old was scoped this past year. She had happy drugs and could have cared less. There were no negative side repercussions.

CR

#23 burnin_3_barrels

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 05:22 PM

My soon to be 4 yr old was scoped in the fall for ulcers and she was fine.

#24 Arabianmom85

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 08:14 PM

well, my vet ended up having an emergency tonight. (she in on call tonight) anyway, canceled the appt at 6:30. She may still beable to come out but not until 8ish, if no other emerg. calls come in. Or we will have to reschedule.

#25 Arabianmom85

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 11:05 PM

Dr. Huffman ended up coming out about 8:00. We sedated Guff. She noticed that on the right side below his eye and what would be along his tear duct "tube" there was a lump, raised very little, but about the size of a ping pong ball. (can't believe I didn't notice it before)Anyway, she started out trying to flush his tear duct- from the bottom up we had decent amount of trouble getting the saline to move through the tube then from his eye down the saline drained fairly easy. Then we scoped his nasal passage. She went to the back of his throat (where everything comes together) and moved out slowly looking at all the areas inside. Well, she didn't seen anything alarming. But is still concerned about the lump under his eye. We had talked about possible trama to his head (back when he had the nose bleeds) and again today (might be calcium deposit?).

Here are the options she came up with. 1)wait and see if anything changes with bump/ nosebleeds/ eye discharge, 2) have her come back out and x-ray (she didn't have the machine with her tonight)

And here are some poss. Dx- 1) trama/ calcium depsit 2) mass/ deformity in tearduct or near tearduct, causing a narrowing of tube or 3) E__?___ Hematoma (not sure of full name) that may be in a fold or area within the nasal cavity that she couldn't see with the scope or it is just tiny enough to not be pushing in toward the nasel cavity and just pushing outward causing the bump.

She didn't put any restrictions on he activiy, wants me to continue using him as I have been.

So, what does everybody think? Have you ever had experience with any of these problems? And what would be your next step?

Thanks guys. This thing is starting to stress me out [Confused] . Most of me wants to run tests and x-rays, but the other part is saying wait and see. Dr. said the scientist part of her says lets do the x-rays and search deeper for an answer. She also said we may not get the answer we are looking for but we will beable to cross a few more things off the list. [Surrender]

Thanks again.

[ 03-14-2006, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Arabianmom85 ]

#26 ..::Felda::..

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 11:11 PM

Wow. It sounds like it will be more aggrivating having to sit and wait for anything to change internally with him. It's too bad it isn't something you can just knock out with some antibiotics, but then, that would make it too easy.

#27 screaminghawk2000

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 01:52 AM

If you can afford it, I'd go further. Can she take it out?

#28 Arabianmom85

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 11:33 PM

I think tomorrow I am going to call to see when she can come out and x-ray him.

If it is the hematoma thing up there, I will probably have to go to a university or referral center to have surgery. But at this point that is worst case senario.

I wonder what CVM thinks, if she is out there and not too busy yet will foaling season [Wink] .

#29 cvm2002

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 11:42 PM

Ethmoid hematomas shouldn't be that difficult to find. They don't "hide" in the nasal folds at all, since they are ONLY found over the ethmoid bone. They don't cause deformity either. Did you scope inside the guttural pouches too?? That's a pretty important spot that should've been checked.

With a lump under the eye and a history of nose bleeds, a full oral evaluation and skull x-rays should be next on the list...

#30 Arabianmom85

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 11:04 AM

CVM- I talked to my vet and I missed understood her about the Ethmoid hematomas and poss. being another mass/ deformity of some sort. Thanks for bringing that up- now I am set straight. [Duh] As for the Gutterol pouches- She didn't "drive" down into them, but had looked at the opennings and didn't see any drainage or anything to make her want to "drive" the scope into them.

I did set up an appt to get x-rays done.

Thanks CVM [Smiley Wavey]