My trimmer *usually* does a good job, but this time I'm not so sure. Our last trim was not quite two weeks ago. The horse is an eleven year old paint, ridden primarily in dressage and occasionally on trail. Said horse has been noticeably stiff for a couple weeks, but better the last few days with much warmer weather. I want to take a rasp and even things a bit, but I'm nervous about making the hoof balance worse.


front hooves


front hooves again




left front, side view


left front, bottom view




right front, side view


right front, bottom view

Back hooves


Back hooves again



left hind, side view


left hind, bottom view



right hind, side view


right hind, bottom view




Could I even these up myself with a rasp or do I need to call the farrier back out? I'm tempted to learn how to trim my horse myself, but again I worry about doing more harm than good.

Tracy

I'm not a pro, and only trim my own horses, but this is what I see.

His fronts look like the heels are underrun, and the poor frogs are not looking healthy. I'd be treating the frogs on all four for thrush. The hinds have a bull-nose appearance from the side, and sometimes this can indicate a negative palmar angle (only x-rays can confirm). There does seem to be a bit of a bevel on the fronts, does your trimmer do a barefoot trim or pasture trim?

The more knowledgeable people on here can give you more info than I can. But I just wanted to take a moment to let you know what jumped out at me. I started trimming my own 1 1/2 years ago and won't go back to regular farriers.

Good luck!!!

The heels all around are under-run, which could very well make him sore. The frogs also look to be an ideal breeding ground for thrush, which again could make him a bit sore.

If you want to learn to trim, it's really not too difficult if you are at all technically inclined. I can forward you some of the information I studied when I first decided to learn, and I can also send you my album of hoof pics.

If the stiffness has cleared up some with warmed weather, it would make less since that it is due to the trim or thrush. It could be a contributing factor, but there is probably also some stiffness just from Fess being cold. Muscles are more tense in cold weather, and cold can also bother arthritis.

Oh, I almost forgot, the bullnosing on the hinds is, IME, a type of flaring. NOT due to negative palmer angle. Bringing the toes back usually helps with that.

These feet are short enough for now and fairly balanced. Movement is what they need. Have faith that the horse will run with this trim and forge the foot he needs...he's wearing it. Move. Move for the arthritis too. Promenade walks on asphalt, 30 min./day.

I would rather blanket a horse for warmth and outside to move and promote circulation for warmth as well, rather than sitting in a stall getting stiff.

Thanks, all. Fessor lives outside in a paddock. It rained most of October, so even with a fairly dry week we still have more mud than anything in the paddocks. Fortunately, it looks like we are having more dry weather, and one of the projects around the barn this week is to grade the paddocks and dig some drainage trenches in an attempt to get them to dry better. I'll ask the farrier what we can do to encourage some heel growth. Underslung heels is a long term battle. I wish I had before pics from when this farrier's predecessor started working on the hooves, work that the current farrier is continuing. I foolishly thought that the farrier preceeding the predecessor would have told me that I had hoof issues to deal with. Instead, we kept shoeing (NOT the issue) in such a way as to maintain or exacerbate the issues. A long move and the accompanying stress was shortly followed with MAJOR abcess issues. Only then did I find out that there was something really wrong with the flat surface, overly long toes, and contracted heels practically on the ground. We still have work to do, but I cannot tell you how excited I was after eight months of work when I could distinguish bars from sole from wall on the hooves. I'll get the boy moving more, look for improvement on the degree of flaring and keep bringing the toe and heel back. And I will get the vet out to look at joints to see if it is time to start managing his joint health.

Keratex is on the way, and I'll borrow some thrush preventative just in case. I'm not noticing any smell from the hooves indicating thrush, but it wouldn't hurt to treat him on a preventative basis once in awhile. He was a bit ouchy on the gravelly road yesterday, but I suspect that is a side effect of walking and standing in mud, hence the Keratex order. I'll have to hand walk him on the harder surface to encourage the hooves to grow in nice and strong.

Thanks everyone for the advice. We have been dealing with ongoing hoof issues, and while they are getting better, I need to keep learning what to look for. I will say that with the current farrier, Fessor *usually* moves much better than he does with other trimmers working on him. I'm trying to rule out the possible causes of the stiffness, partly by observation and partly with the vet. I suppose he could have slipped in the paddock, but I would have expected one limb to present lame instead of an overall generalized stiffness. I guess it is time to have the vet out (again) and look at joints this time. It may be time for some Adequan. Or simply that I need to allow more time for the warmup. It may take longer some days, but we still get some *nice* work once we get moving freely.

Tracy

Geez, if you have the whereforall to grade and trench the paddock, then go one step farther. Put down a base to solidify things and hold pea gravel from sinking in. Pea gravel is the best material for conditioning a hoof and keeping thrush at bay because it also keeps a hoof dry. Even if you can do a section of it (4" deep), he will retreat to it from the mud and still improve.

I too am at the point in life where I'm asking myself if my 24 year old needed arthritis supplements. Its her knees.
A few years ago, I spent half the winter with my knees screaming at me. It had become chronic pain. I then realized that I myself had been landing toe first, trying not to slip in the snow. I made the old man plow paths for me and concentrated on landing heel first like I had been dictating to people for so long. That chronic pain in my knees went away in 2 days and never came back. When my toes jammed first, it went straight to my knees. Simply by changing things, I completely fixed it.
So I concentrated on doing the same for my old horse. She was reluctant to trot, never cantered and walked toe first despite the trim. I got after her trim and stayed on top of it with the bevel placement at the toe. The first couple of trims, she was a bit sore, then not sore after that. Her hoof was already in good shape and there wasn't any excess length. Her heels wouldn't completely de- contract and toe always wanting to flare, though and she has permanent pathology from being born pidgeon-toed. So I'm only talking about the power of the bevel here. The first thing I noticed was that the heels got wider and the thrush moved into the background. I was tempted to do a rocker at the toes, but didn't. Instead I established a strict bevel, obeyed the sole and kept it maintained. She voluntarily galloped up to the gate yesterday, looking like a 6 year old! (I had a video of her, but it won't work.)

So, give the trim a chance before deciding on supplements, though I do suggest that the major and trace minerals be present for good hoof health.

Tracy, I would ask your farrier to put a stronger roll on the toes. Many times, the farrier cannot know what issues you are having under saddle because no one tells him. If you have a good relationship, just try asking him to roll the toe a bit more, just to see. You can safely roll the toe to the white line with no issues.

Is Fess tripping occasionally? I've found that bringing the toes back, sometimes weekly, will eliminate the tripping on fairly even ground. If he's having that issue.

I would still put my money on the cold weather though.

Also, with the mud, he's not going to wear his hoof down. The mud just gives way. If he's ouchy on gravel, I certainly would not push him to walk on it unless you have a path you have to cross.

I would not rely on my nose to detect thrush. Press on the frog with your thumb or the blunt end of your hoofpick...if your horse flinches, you have an infected frog, most likely deep in the central cleft (sulcus). It doesn't take much tenderness in the frog for a horse to start voluntarily landing toe first. Horses who land toe first look stiff, trip frequently, and wear their hooves unevenly. Mineral balancing is a powerful tool to fight thrush, as it strengthens the immune system.

Ditto the much stronger roll on the front toes. Before his next trim, take ground-level pictures again and print them for your trimmer. Just like us, it helps him/her see instantly where work is needed.

Please do ask that they STOP bull nosing the hinds. It does NOT help with tripping (maybe forging but still)....only taking the front toe back and rolling the snot out of them will help in either aspectd.

Bullnosing the hinds isn't something that is done to the hoof. It's just how the hind hoof flares when the toes are too long. Taking the toe back regularly and then allowing the hoof to grow out will fix it.

I beg to differ (a little bit) on that one, due to my newest addition.

His previous owner kept him shod for trailriding. When I asked who the farrier was, she declined to answer, saying he wasn't the best, but did great with her WP horse.

Anyway, the poor guy had awful angles and the bull nose going on- the front of the hoof had been taken way back and be put into a shoe that was several sizes too small. He did not have a long toe, but it was cut back to fit the shoe. So, not always a long toe situation. I am happy to say that the last of the holes have grown out and we are progressing with healthy feet!!

You will be spinning your wheels if you don't build thick calloused sole.
If the groove at the apex is only 1/2" deep, then being sore on gravel is understandable. It should be 5/8"-3/4" deep. He should not be on gravel without boots. Not enough sole has been built yet.

If the groove depth is more than 3/4" at the heels, then the heels can be lowered accordingly until they are. If they are not, they can't. If they are lowered, sole will not build. The lateral cartilages won't raise and allow the heels to be lowered.

It looks like there was a negative palmer angle in the past. The groove is shallow at both ends, but looks like its slightly deeper in the back now and that is improving. The bevel is adequate, the breakover is good and the groove at the toe is also shallow.

Just need to keep building the sole. Work that trim. Boots with pads to stimulate growth, or pea gravel will also stimulate. This stimulation creates sole that builds and outruns thrush. Keratex will make for comfort, but does not give the you the stimulation.

To me, despite the remaining pathology, this hoof is on top of its trim right now. Movement and stimulation is what will keep you going forward.

Thanks all. I'll go ahead and post a brief update.

Fessor's stiffness has all but disappeared on its own. I'm guessing this means that the trim is not the primary issue. I'll keep monitoring to try and increase sole depth and improvement on his angles. The next time the farrier is out, I'll ask him to try rolling the toes a bit more. And yes, movement sounds like a very good idea (for both of us!). We'll avoid the gravel for now, but since he is fine walking on asphalt I'll try to do that with him on a regular basis. I have a call into the vet to take some films of his hocks, just to see where we are and if Fess is starting to develop a bit of arthritis. We haven't had another cold snap yet, so I don't know how much cold might be playing into the stiffness. If the x-rays come back clean, I'll have to assume he tweaked something in the mud that did not cause a limb lameness, and the the tweak has healed itself. If nothing else, I'm learning to really feel how my horse is moving. That can only help as I work on building awareness and "feel" for both his body and mine. :)

Tracy