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Everything posted by missyclare

  1. Hoof Help

    http://www.flickr.co...N03/8451038680/ The toe and heel need to come back more and will be a work in progress. The reason the band is jammed up, is not so much that the quarters are long, but that this whole side is longer than the other side. (medial/lateral imbalance) You're doing a good job trimming, just that you need to see balance better. http://www.flickr.co...N03/8451038240/ Think of the heel balance as the horizon line on water. The red line going around the hoof is the sunset going down on the water. The heel line should be straight across, like my line, with heels even in height and the surfaces of them, flat to ground. When you think of this perfect sunset (both red lines) you can automatically see whats high. The left heel and all the way to 11 o'clock is high. The quarter on the other side is a tad high as well. All I've done is tweak that heel on the right to have a straight, flat surface that faces the ground and fits my straight heel line. The heel on the left has been brought down to balance with the right one and also be flat surface. In front of that, I've taken down the left side to the red line to be balanced and create that perfect sunset. I've also gone lightly across the toe to eliminate the divot at the toe and create even support all around the toe. When you take the heel shot, not so steep. You should hold the front of the fetlock and let the hoof hang, lean forward so that you can see the frog and which way its pointing, along with the toe. There should also be more picture below, showing the run of the cannon bone as well. So, you needed to back up the camera more and lean forward a bit more. The heel shots are the most important ones. What did you do differently from the first shots vs. the last two? The first ones, I can work with, but the last two are thumbnail size and I couldn't save them even, to work on them. I run into this problem all the time and would like to know why. Did you take them with your cell phone or something http://www.flickr.co...N03/8449951391/ This one, I believe is a hind. Most of your hooves, the bars are great. This one has some excess bar, so I wanted to show you how to deal with it, see it and be able to handle any bars that you see. I've outlined in black the sections of bar tops. On this hoof, the right side is all high, so the bar on the right is also high. Everything in this picture that is solid white is a surface that is also flat to ground and even with the sole, then the bevel is applied. Note that the bar sufaces are also white. Perfect ramps that emerge from the sole halfway back on the frog and ramp up to meet the heel platforms dead on. The ramps should be established right away. The right side (arrows) show that they need to be lowered more than the left. The more rearward arrow on the right is coming from a blob of bar that is sitting on the sole like a stone in his foot. It needs to be slivered down to sole and gone. There's another one right in front of it. You don't want those coming into play when you lower the higher right side. What is in front of the ramp, should only be taken in paper thin slivers over several trims. Start by only taking the lumps and bumps out of its run, smoothing it out and merging it with the ramp. The left side needs the ramp shaped more than brought down and only one occasion to sliver what's out front to see it good. Note the shape of the bar ramps. That is the structure they should have. http://www.flickr.co...N03/8454751770/ The heels do not need to be lowered, just the higher one brought down to match the other side. Some of the problems that started you on medial/later imbalance, is that the wall height goes up and up higher as you go around, leaving the heel, so the inner heel platforms are good on some, but its the outside that is higher...straight/flat, just like my heel line is, is what you should see. Reverse the rasp in your hand and pull back on them towards yourself. Just a tweak for a flat to ground surface on the shorter one and more on the higher heel to bring it down to balance with the other. Both in profile, should be straight across the whole back of the foot in a straight line. Then stay there, with the sole, following it. When you close your eyes and run your thumb over sole/wall and off, you should feel no difference in their heights, all level and flat to ground like the white area on the hind pic. The bevel should leave the inside half of the wall intact and the outside half taken in 45 bevel. The bar ramps should merge from the sole halfway back on the frog and ramp straight up to meet the heel height dead on...flat to ground surface. The rest of the bar in front of the ramps should be taken gradually in slivers. Where the sole looks like its crowding the frog, its bar invading the groove. The groove should be clear to the eyesight. Once you see these horizons on the heel views, you can correct what's high and you should be able to just follow the sole next trim. The goal is to keep the heel height that you have, just get balanced. It's the bevel at the toe maintained that will allow the heels to come back and stand up (side shot) When you hold the front of the pastern and let the hoof hang, it lines up all the bones, if they are in line, if not I'll see it. From the cannon, to the ergot, to the central sulcis, to the frog apex, to 12 o'clock at the toe "should" be all one straight line with perpendicular heel balance and beautiful sunset. Then you're getting balance. Do you understand that with the heel shots so steep and no cannons, that I cannot see the true run of bone? Sorry about the pic sizes. I have just disgustingly abandoned Photobucket and am trying to make Flickr work.
  2. Hoof Help

    Yes......will help if you can get these pics. a) picture 4' out tront of the horse, camera on the ground and get all the way just past the knees. Centered, both feet. RF Side: Camera on the ground 4'away, centered between heel and toe, Same with the LF. c) RF and LF SOLAR: Pick up foot, bring toe towards you, lean until you are directly above the middle of the frog, 2'away. d) RF and LF HEEL: Pick up foot, Cup hand over fetlock and let the foot hang. Lean forward, holding the cameral vertically and catch the heel profile, but also be able to see well to the toe and below the heel to catch part of the cannon bone. Get centered right behind the central sulcis and again, 2' away. Clean feet, good light, Don't worry about the background and sometimes its easier to get your eye into position, then bring the camera to your eye. No, we're not going to argue about his weight. Just an observation and it is connected to the feet. Glad to hear of your efforts. I will not worry about him. He's is in good hands. Going slow with patience and persistence on both fronts. Sounds like a good plan to me.
  3. Hoof Help

    This horse is terribly thin. Fact is, is that the feet are low on the totem pole in terms of survival vs. this body weight. Any nutrition he gets, he's got other priorities than his feet right now. He is uncomfortable to look at and the word dangerous comes to mind. This is not a nasty opinion, but a fact. His facial expression says that he is not well. You've got some other things to address at the same time as you address the trim. The best, most safest way to put on weight is more hay. If your hay is truly crap, I'd go hunting for some. Even if you can only get a 5 or 10 bale load of better hay, it would be a plus. He should have hay in front of him 24/7. Go for better hay. You'll need to wean him onto the better hay slowly by mixing it with the old and for the same reason, slow feeders are very much called for because they regulate intake. If its dusty, give it a light sprinkling with a watering can. Clean, fresh water 24/7. I'd also have a homemade meal for him, fed 2x/day, consisting of beet pulp, flax, salt, Vitamin A and E, probiotics, and minerals. No iron, no grain. If you don't have any grass, then maybe you can think of a place where you can pick him an armful and take it to him or take him for a walk and go find it together. A gentle walk is good exercise and will lift the spirits. Horses love new ground. Avoid farmers crops and roadside ditches. Continue to fight thrush. If, for any reason you may feel that he could get chilled (think of 5am in the morning), blanket him appropriately. He'll be conserving those calories and have some padding until he gets some meat on his bones. These are the things he needs help with. He needs somebody to brush him with a soft brush and tell him they love him.....he'll know. As for the trim, I think you got some good advice on the other forum and that you came over here to see it. That gives me an unbalanced feeling. I would not dare to second guess anyone else's advice. The lines I draw are simply my own opinion, no more, no less. The trim you can work on, the nutrition comes first. You will not get a positive response in your trim, unless he has the food to fuel healthy new growth. So with the feet and the body, you have your homework cut out for you. Are you up for it? If so, I need better pictures provided by the sticky at the top, here. I'm curious to know how he got so thin. It may help in understanding him better and his needs. Name,age, breed, medical history, weight, lifestyle, stall time vs. pasture time.....anything you tell us. You also need to take a poo sample into the vet to get tested for worms. You need to know how bad the worm load is, If you down a tube into him and he's loaded with worms, the die off will put him into trouble right away. Take the vet's advice on how to deworm him properly and know how much he weighs. If you have the mind to call the vet in, then do so. It is a better option that the vet see the whole horse. At the very least, take the first picture you posted here with you, along with the poo. Leave them both at the office and ask for a call back, and have a good conversation with him. What's RB?. What are you feeding in all and how much in a day?
  4. An Urgent Message From Jaime Jackson About Laminitis

    There are a few reasons why laminitis strikes, not just what's going in the horse's mouth. Metabolic upset for any reason. A bad colic is like fast-tracked laminitis to founder, pain doesn't help,,nor does stress from being 3-legged lame. (Barbaro) Lyme Disease is another one, then there is the effects from past damage in winter as well. People could be more informed on balanced nutrition, but I really don't think its preventable. It they find a wonder drug to stop it in its tracks.....maybe. Jaime seems like he's blaming how people take care of their horses for getting into laminitis/ IR, but its a much broader picture than that. Laminitis is a symptom of IR, but its also a symptom of other things too.
  5. Hairline Angles?

    Yup, you'd better tell us his name and introduce us to him! Are all your horses white???
  6. At 20 he's at a higher risk of PPID and this is one of the symptoms, along with cresty neck and hair coat,.... or not. I would think it would be worth asking the vet about it and possible ACTH test and Prescend, if necessary. The answer to this one is the same as Trinity's also....movement.
  7. Hairline Angles?

    Oops! Sorry Faaron. I'm sure you're doing fine too. P3 should be 3-5 degrees from ground parallel, but just ask a club footed horse about that! As long as he is comfortable and with your care, it is right for him. It would be nice if we lived in a perfect world, but we know its not even close. I can tell you more, possibly, with pics that open up larger than thumbnail in photoshop.
  8. Hairline Angles?

    Rightly so. This was Jan 2012.
  9. Olive oil, just a tbn., enough to mix with the vitamin E. No to the Khonkesow. There is no copper in it and the site won't show the analysis. The Equilibrium is interesting. Its beyond me, though this is an Australian product. I would also ask the vet or nutritionist who knows your area what he recommends. Yes, low iron, but speak to the vet. Australian soils are quite different than over here. See what else is available and products recommended. With Equilibrium, the feeding directions according to the pleasure horse category, feed 1 1/2 scoops. 1 scoop delivers 70g, so 105g/day delivered/day in that category. I would also take a harder look at it. A product like this would cover more bases, like the selenium, for example. If you fed this, you would probably be able to drop the Vit E.supplementation. It definitely looks better than the Kohnkesow. This would be a very good person to talk to: Carol Layton. She balanced diets for Dr. Kellon in Nutrition class. She knows her stuff. http://www.balancedequine.com.au/
  10. Hairline Angles?

    The heels are still blocky. I would like to see them open up a bit more, but when the hoof say so, due to the very hard/dry ground conditions. The toe length looks perfect and if you have 3/4" from from the bottom of the groove at the apex to the top of the wall, it is perfect .What's happening, is that the blockiness of the heels is hiding the true structure of them to your eye. The heel platforms are almost back to the widest part of the heel, the heels are still slightly contracted, which is also contributing to hiding the true heel structure, pushing the heels together like an accordion and melded together because of the ground. So, the heels still need to come back and down a bit and open up and be wider. If you look at the original photos, you will see that it is has opened up and bloomed in the back from what it was. Considering the ground, the navicular diagnosis etc., obeying the sole diligently and not taking anything before it tells you to, is an excellent plan. That means patience on your sleeve more than ever .There is a small blob of flattened frog ahead of the apex that is being pounded, is over the sole, pressing into it and thinning/bruising the sole underneath. That could be gently coaxed off. Its evidence that the breakover is coming back and the frog structure is getting back to end at the apex where it should. Things like this, with this ground, gets pounded in, made part of the structure and adds to the blockiness, which in turn impedes mechanism. The distance from the coronary band to the top of the heel pillars is a good example of this blockiness. They need to widen when weighted, and be flexible, have less distance and more profile, with the groove showing itself coming out the back and delineating the difference in structures between the heel and the frog. The heel bulbs should also have better definitiion, like two cheeks on a face. These heels are landing like a block, not spreading when weighted and the pressure is having to sort itself out within the block instead. What you do want is strength for that ground, but flexible strength. I think the hard ground is giving the hoof a hard time at transitioning and development. Is he getting his feet into water at all during the course of his day? I would try a Davis boot with a couple inches of water (dollop of vinegar and a pad) in it and walk him for 30 minutes every day or every other day to soften and open a window to work this trim. You don't want to create a soggy foot in general against this ground, just open a temporary window of encouraged flexibility to allow him to develop the hoof better and deal with the blockiness. The hoof will harden up again very shortly after removing the boot. Treat for thrush, just because, It will prevent blooming and widening as well.You can see that he has developed in the face of the hard ground at the quarters. The sole at the quarters on the right side is developed and telling the truth. IT's lower/thicker. This side is in the brunt a bit, because its higher than the other side. This extra impact has developed the sole, despite the hard ground and opened its own window. The other side has a patch of sole callous that is higher. This is a bandaid of thickened sole from the splat created by the high side. So there is a small medial/lateral imbalance going on. If you look closely, you'll see that the wall at the quarters on the high side is just a tad longer above sole than the other side. The extra impact on this side has develop the sole, reduced/lower/thicker and left the wall standing. No big deal, but look at the sway in the back of the hoof in relation to the run of the pastern. That's how strictly that ground dictates and with no forgiveness. If these heels were were flexible, it would take more lateral/medial imbalance to make the foot sway so and you'd first see flaring on the outside in answer to it, but since it is a block, the whole block sways, make sense? So following the sole critically is important for him. I'd just breathe on the right side with the fine side of the rasp until the wall height on the high side matches the other side. From 1 o'clock to the front of the heel platform. The bar ramp is also a tad higher on that side and contributing to the sway. As for the heels, I saved the heel shot and put it in Photoshop and it came in at a thumbnail size, and when I blew it up, it blew up. Good angle on the shot, though. I'd like to take a closer look. Basically, the bone is fine, the trim is good, the toe is a good length and heels, all you can do at the moment. Its development, widening, blooming, flexibility and mechanism in the back, that is going to allow you to lower the heels and bring them back and give you that 30 degree angle without changing the trim, much at all.
  11. Agreed. This is going to clean up nicely and the padding will protect for awhile to get him over the hump. The concavity isn't half bad Just a lot of flare, flared forward and flared heels. Once the parts and pieces are back where they belong and balanced, things will start working properly and it will make all the difference to this navicular diagnosis. As Trinity mentioned, the pounded flat frog to the slate-like appearane of the sole, it looks like its pretty dry around there. .Know that thrush can thrive in this environment as well .The frog is incredibly dynamic. It should be bulging and rounded into a perfect heart shape and feel like Indian Rubber.. When I look at this foot, I am also reminded of copper deficiency as well. Too much iron, too many carbs, overweight. I took a look at the Retread, and it fits it name. A bunch of methionine and a very inadequate amount of biotin. The Easi-Response addresses the whole horse better, but is still inadequate for needs or balance and adds more iron which kills the copper and zinc. All this stuff is already in the hay, including the iron and 3/4's or more of his daily intake is hay, so he's getting it and getting more in his hay than any store bought supplement would contribute. If this were my horse, what I would do strip the diet right down. a) Determine how much he weighs,..in kilograms, then feed him 1.5% of his weight and when he loses to just right (ideal weight), then start feeding him 1.5% of his ideal weight. I would put the hay in slow feeders for all and hang them around so that when one gets piggy, all he does is rotate the herd. The slow feeders will regulate his intake and make it last longer. He won't be able to eat faster/finish and then go steal others. He'll move to the next bag, make everyone rotate and they'll all be eating at the same speed. More importantly, this rotation is the horses moving themselves = more movement. It isn't exact science, feeding multiple horses at multiple bags, but know the weight of hay you need, memorize the bulk of it, and know at least that you are not overfeeding. A handful of oats, no more, or beet pulp, just as a carrier for... c) 4oz. of fresh ground flax, ground up in a $10 coffee grinder just before feeding. These are a perfect balance of omegas with higher 3 than 6 and acts as an anti-inflammatory. It will also put a deep shine on his coat d) 2000Iu of E/day, If its natural E, which is better absorbed, then you only need to go to 1600IU. Know his weight and use the guide of 2IU/kg.of body weight. If you go the powdered E route, which can be pricier, you'll can also get Selenium with it and they need to be together to be absorbed. The E needs oil to be absorbed as well, so mixing the powder in a tbn. of oil, then mixing it in to the feed, does the trick...or you can get Vit E gelcaps at Walmart. (Selenium needs E and E needs oil..3 musketeers of optimal absorption) e) Diamond V Yeast for a healthy gut. The directions on the bag say 1/8 cup, which I interpet as a small handful. Both the flax and yeast will last forever. f) California Trace Minerals. will see you add adequate amounts of Copper and Zinc, without the iron added. Copper will deepen his true color, tighten up his feet, make them stronger and help to spit out thrush. This is where you are really going to hit the nail on the head. g) 1 tbn. of iodized salt which gets you your electroylytes and some iodine thrown in as well. If he is worked hard and sweating sometime in the future, or its so hot that he's standing there sweating, don't be afraid to up the salt to 2 or 3 tbns. The California Trace is a bit pricey, but the rest is cheap and I'd quit the Easi-Response too. Just what's above listed here. Once she has the horse set up and comfortable, it will be time to work it and make him move. Also fight thrush. Getting clean is half the battle. Hold the foot over a bucket and with a long handled brush like people keep at their kitchen sink, scrub vigorously with Dawn Dish soap, then go to a toothbrush to get into the cracks and if the toothbrush doesn't go down to the very bottom of those cracks, get the Q-Tips out and clean gently but deeply. Thrush can hide in the bottom of a crack and continue to eat internally, while you think everything is fine at the surface. Then treat for thrush, including the remaining seedy toe areas. Once the torque of the flare is removed, the seedy toe will start to resolve itself. This treatment will also help greatly to waking up that leather-looking frog and make it come alive again, with the pads putting it back to work and helping it also. Getting the hoof balanced and working properly will also improve blood flow. The health of that frog IS the padding under the navicular bone....go for it. If the heels are shortened and weighted and the frog is not ready to work with the heels, they hurt and the horse will go right back to a toe first landing again....completely defeated. Start this cleaning regime now and continue it after the trimmer has left. So, thrush treatment and when comfortable....movement to develop the hoof and lose weight. Every step he takes towards this is a step away from IR or Cushings, and you don't want to go there. With this in mind, you have to be a mean Mom....no tired grass, no green spring grass, no sugar, no treats. Ok, you can give him an apple a day to keep the vet away, but make him earn it in movement first. I don't feed from my hand, so I started dropping them on the ground. Now I call a name and throw it 50', call another, throw again and watch them all chase them down. Whatever works, make him move every chance you get. Check out Uckele.com for supplements in mind with this thinking. Also mybesthorse.com. Joan will talk to you and help. There is a product there called Move-Ease that she has put together and I'm feeding right now. Its made my eyebrows go up on killing pain a few times now. It's a great alternative to Bute, is not a NSAID and is totally safe. The California Trace has Selenium in it, and lysine and iodine and methionine. The E in it has 750IU and could easily be be brought up to par at 2000IU with 3-400IU gelcaps per day.....done. It also has the proper amount of Biotin at 20mg/day, not 2mg, like the Retread or the Easi-Response. And most importantly, NO IRON. Its exactly what he needs. Most of all be patient. He didn't get this way overnight and it won't be fixed overnight, but if you do your homework you'll get there much faster.
  12. He's gorgeous! I do see signs of long toe, long breakover and flare, but that's all I'll say with these pics. He could have been due for a trim at the time. Ok, but need to be on top of the trim at all times to move forward. What has his schedule been like.... should be 4 weeks, in the future. Flare forward is one of the culprits of navicular. This can be a trimming error and even be coupled with metabolic unrest. What's he eating? Have you borrowed the xrays proper from the vet to have in hand or whatever? I'd take a full set of good pics with a camera, clean feet, good lighting, put them up on here.. We can show you what you're seeing and explain why. In a month's time, take another set of pictures and if you think you're not moving forward for any reason, all you have to do is look back. If the hoof is to be covered, then get the trim shots before this happens. Are you feeding minerals? Particularly zinc and copper? It would give him the coat color he was born with and possibly all the brown on him would fade to his darker color. (and then add some dapples as well) Copper is also key to good connective tissue strength for the hooves. I turned a horse with this color to jet black and in the summer sun in 3 months. The more I find and find out about copper, the higher esteem I give it. No Thrush made my eyebrows go up and I had used it on the skin, against fungus. Copper is lined in one pair of my socks and my feet have never been warmer. As for the negativity, let it ride over you and continue to be friendly. As long as he's booted and comfortable, they should be satisfied. That's your priority too anyway. He's going to walk away from this. He's just too darn young for this BS. (sorry) He needs to be balanced in foot and food. The trimmer will take care of the balance, the rest is your homework to see him comfortable in boots and start moving to work that trim with the padding. Always fight thrush. If thrush is eating the hoof away, nothing can build and develop. Promenade Walks, 20 min./day on a hard/flat surface...asphalt, driveway, concrete barn aisle, etc. I suspect that not only will he walk away, but fly away from this and in the end, the strong/balanced hooves won't need boots and if the heels need to be a little longer than usual, so be it, its right for him. The movement/development is key. I suspect that the tendon sheaths may be inflamed, where they crunch backwards from a toe first landing. Things are supposed to be flowing forward and that takes a heel first landing, just like you. Are you feeding any supplements? Ask the trimmer's opinion on this as well.
  13. Converting To Pea-Gravel Drylot

    I put two rubber mats in the entrance of the barn to help hold the ramp/barn floor intersection. Before I put the felt on the ramp, I only had 3" drainage rock on it. I found when the horses either came in or went out, the divot direction was down the ramp, regardless. The crushed gravel is small and all the same size rock. That was my request, finely ground with no bigger rocks in there...all the same size. Also the reason for the felt in the barn separating the two layers, so the 3" stone wouldn't migrate to the surface. I still hesitate to flood the stall, though, even though all the ground around the barn is downhill. I have no qualms about pressure washing the walls and ceilings during annual cleanup time, though. If I flooded things, I'd expect it would 2-4 weeks to dry out properly. By eliminating the stalls and opening up the barn at their leisure makes for things not getting so intense, moisture-wise. If I have a wet spot, no matter what the temperature is, its usually dry in 3 days. I watered the barn down initially to drive the dust down and make it more manageable, but haven't felt the need to do it since, either puddle or odor-wise. Otherwise, I feed them outside and and glad I am. If they are hanging around in the barn with the hay bags, they poo more there and attract flies, which means they have lost their summer refuge from them. I have very few flies in the barn and the horses can get away from them. Cut down on the amt. of fly spray used as well. I have a felt across the 8' opening that I only hung from the top and put a slit in the middle and is about 1' off the ground as an added wind/fly barrier. The crushed gravel is a slower drain. I was told it wouldn't drain at all, but it is. If you had pea gravel over crushed limestone, It would quickly drain away through the pea gravel, but a slower process once it hits the crushed gravel, but still drain. If the section is higher than the surrounding, you've got drainage happening that way as well. I have some pics on file, of the 3" gravel, but not the limestone. I also have a glitch going on with Photobucket and need a kid to come straighten things out. They will be coming for dinner this weekend. In the meantime, I will take a pic of the limestone in my hand so that you can get an idea of it. I've found it has so many names, depending on who's talking and where you are...crusher run, fines, etc. The best thing to do is to go to the gravel place, drag the guy out there, pick the stuff up in your hand and ask questions. There are three sizes of pea gravel and you want the size that is literally pea-sized. Any bigger than these 3 sizes, you start getting into river rock designation. Also look at the many-tined forks and spacing between them. Feel good that the size of the rock will fall through the tines and stay where it belongs. A grass rake will even get finer stuff, raked lightly, moves poo without the gravel. The pea gravel may require a garden rake if its heavier, but regardless, its a real "zen" experience to rake this stuff. lol.
  14. Converting To Pea-Gravel Drylot

    I couldn't afford the pea gravel either. I removed 2' of dirt from the barn and filled it with 4" of 3" drainage rock, a felt off a paper machine, then 4" of crushed limestone. The 60' round pen has 3 loads of crushed gravel and still needs a load to go. I also spilled the drainage rock out the barn door to make a ramp and covered it with felt and Its holding like a charm. This has all been done by hand. I don't have access to any large equipment. When a load gets dumped in the middle of the ring, it usually takes me a few months to get it spread. I have one sick stall, but other than that, I don't use bedding anymore and got rid of the stalls. I use a 10-tined fork with 1" spacing and can clean inside and outside with it. I give each fork load a little bop and am rewarded by no gravel hitting the sled. Manure is moist, so some gravel is going to stick to it, but its not encrusted with gravel. The odd faint sprinkling and the fork lets me pick it up cleanly without rolling it around and picking up more, nor disturbing what I don't need to. It goes to the garden and is never noticed again. Its all about 4 years old and I don't feel the need to top anything up, other than get finished what I started. I've heard that even if you can grade/scrape/compact the area first, it helps. Maybe if you do it in strips, you can afford to lay the drainage gravel first. Along the fence would be great. You could hang slow feeders and create a track for maximum movement within the area. No, pea gravel is too expensive to let sink in the ground. I've found the crushed limestone works just as well. Pea gravel is round and rolly. I decided against putting it in the round pen and I've heard that hay falling into it is no picnic either to clean up . The limestone compacts itself and still drains. No puddles in the barn and the traction is excellent in the ring. I feed hay outside the barn and most of the poo is out there too. Right now, they are in the round pen taking a break from the mud. The slow feeders again, minimize waste and help to keep things clean. The gravel is not spilling out of the riding ring, even with the horses going around and I don't have to do constant levelling along the edges. The first year I did, but not since. I never put drainage rock in the ring first. I'm just going up with each load. Its holding its shape beautifully too. No puddles, bogs, lumps, highest in the middle etc. Hope this helps....
  15. Yes Jubal, good story! Good endings are always more than welcome. Ditto to Trinity's post as well. You are wise to not give an an answer to anyone, until you've had time to digest it, including the cost. Definitely not the wedges. That's old school. It has been deemed by the higher ups that wedging is not supportive and is detrimental. I cringe when I see it still being prescribed. I am in hopes that these two farriers will have something refreshing to say, in line with your thinking....and the vet...he's not the only vet in world, either. Definitely have those xrays in hand when they come. They will be able to give you a 2nd and 3rd opinion on them. What's his name?...your horse, that is.
  16. Knot On Neck

    Would a blood test to check the thyroid be called for? Would Levothyroxine possibly help? Would this investigation be even more important if there was other stresses going on, like IR?:
  17. Thoughts On This Shoe?

    I agree. The hoof has been given a barefoot trim all in one go to be able to fit the shoe. The balance achieved is a good improvement, but what if the hoof wasn't ready for this kind of trim? Say the heels are pulled forward and non-existent, or thrush prevails. Bringing back the toe like that so drastically, could cause lameness in the toe itself, but it also causes the horse to weight his heel for a heel first landing as well. So, what if the back of the foot isn't ready? I see possible sensitivity at the toe and definite sensitivity at the heel. Is the shoe going to be enough to mask that? Doubtful, but then shoes kill circulation. Now I'm thinking of the sudden change in tendons and bone due to the trim, despite the balance achieved and would like to see the effects of the shoe on the sole in terms of concavity gained. after 6 weeks. I am also reminded that its the pads in the boots that create that give and take that works like magic. I don't see it happening here with steel. I hope to be able to change this thought some day, but a shoe is still a shoe....total dictation.
  18. We Knew It All Along

    That was exactly my first thought. Gee, that was slow! I've been at this for over 10 years. It does help to contribute to the general attitude out there though and that's a good thing.
  19. Hoof Confermation

    Shoes come in all shapes and sizes. What you want is a trim that is right for the horse, not the shoe. This is the difference between shod and barefoot. Seeing pictures will help you see the hooves for what they are and what to do for improvements that are right for her.
  20. To Trim Or Not To Trim

    More answers could be found in a set of xrays. It would get the trim exactly right for the horse and give you insight as to what's going on in there. Are the abscesses always on the RF? Are they happening in the same place? How long does she wear the boots? Just for the abscesses and not for all around therapeutic effect to get her over the hump permanently? I would want xrays, good digital ones. I'd want to get to know the pathology involved with the "event" and periosteal reaction results...if there is a bone infection involved. There may be a core of infection that is existing and everytime she's trimmed, they are hitting the tip of the ice berg and aggravating things. She may need to spit this thing out for once and for all. Maybe, but I think the xrays would help a lot to help you know what you are dealing with. I too would like to see pics. It may help. They'll have to be good ones according to the sticky on the hoof forum. I'd want to see the twists and turns in her delivery, the trim and hoof health. I agree with all that has been said here. You guys are so smart!
  21. Oh Yuck.

    After the craziness of Christmas, I consider myself on holiday, sort of. The poo is frozen to the ground, so I can't do anything about that. and the snow keeps covering the old ones up, so is easier on the eye and helps take the guilt away, but I forgot that I still have to shovel snow, and the snow blower won't start, ugh! We got 2' a couple of days ago and another 2' last night. I'm on the end of a dead end road and with no school bus aged children anymore, so the plow comes when it comes and not before. I have a sacro-illiac to rehab and must walk the mile driveway. I have a feeling I'll be tailing him the whole way. I hope the plow doesn't decide to come then, cause then I will be skijoring without the proper equipment, lol! Still sounds like fun!
  22. An Urgent Message From Jaime Jackson About Laminitis

    Well, this is disappointing. I wonder if Peta went to Jackson, or Jackson went to Peta on this. I'll bet that Peta came to Jackson because of these laminitis studies. Neither one of them have any expertise in a horse's metabolic processes. Way back Pete Ramey started the barefoot trim with Jamie Jackson. Jamie went on to start the AANHCP and picked up certain hoof trimming details that Pete soundly disagreed with, so they parted ways and it wasn't pretty. I believe Pete has an article up on his site addressing that divorce. Pete was actually in my nutrition class when I took it. Studies on horses have been going on for years. This is nothing new. There was an earlier study done that was discussed in class and Dr. K held no merit in it, because the laminitis was artificially induced with traumatic results like this one. She had nothing else to say, except that point. It did nothing for her. She has been collecting data from live studies done and her students following protocol on the farm with their horses. She just did one last summer. She seems to have gotten so many more answers this way, because the horse as a living subject, keeps talking to you. From glucose and insulin and now leptin testing for IR to ACTH for Cushings, to AAKG, Jiagulan, balancing the diet, the seasonal rise, the pergolide veil, winter laminitis, many have found answers that make things easier to cope with this disease. Chasteberry has been shunted to the side a long time ago. It only helps in the beginning. Mega Vit. C has been supplemented to help the immune system for various specific reasons, but its always a short course of it. I am an enemy of store bought feeds, always have been. Now, more than ever. Anything you add to the horse's diet other than hay and water, is a supplement, whether it be salt, flax or an apple. Don't appreciate it all being lumped in together....not fair. As far as the store bought feeds go, though, I will agree. The problem is the iron content. Whether it be 5lbs. fed or 2oz. fed/day, depending on the supplement, it doubles, even triples the iron intake/day on top of the hay. Most all IR horses are found to be iron overloaded. That's what the major goal is, to be aware of that iron, as well as the copper and zinc deficiency it causes. It's copper and zinc that strengthens the connective tissue in the hoof. Surprisingly, a lot of troubles went away, just by getting the diet balanced...in other words, getting the iron under control, but then there's the sensitivity to deal with as well. No where is the grass mentioned, which can be the real culprit. Its not the fructans, Fructans are simply the container that holds fructose + 1 glucose. Its the fructose that causes trouble, not the fructans. Any word with "ose" on the end...beware. Glucosamine, yucca both promote IR and Vit. C promotes Iron uptake as well. No, I'm disappointed in Jackson. I haven't paid much attention to him since the divorce. He wanted to create a barefoot registry to make things official. All of us that were already apprised of the trim would have to take the classes, learn again his way to be official. It was disappointing then. Nobody around me bothered much to go back and get official with Jamie. He says that the trim is going to fix things??? Well, mine are fully transitioned and I have to keep an eye on that grass if I want those feet kept. I've seen their feet slowly go splat, flare begin and the white line stretch right through a great trim, so I'll have to disagree..definitely metabolic related. I find this article unhelpful. There are no answers in it, little explanation. No breakthroughs and no reason to call it urgent. If I had a good career going, the last thing I'd do is hook up with Peta. Seems he's lost his way. I will give him one for kicking the feed people in the pants, though. They are not going to happy to see this, especially the ones who have moved forward and addressed this problem to answer the need. I'm going to keep an eye out on the Cushings Forum and see what happens when this hits the fan. Those "supplements" are dearly needed. Many horses are already on the far side of the hill and need help. People need to recognize early laminitis and do something then, rather than waiting for the laminitic stance to come along. Interestingly, In Europe, some owners have been charged lately with abuse for fat/laminitic horses, not just the skinny ones.
  23. How To Apply Cotton Balls With Thrushbuster

    Lousy bedding material. If the dirt has a clay in it, it won't drain all by itself. That's what my barn had and looked just like yours. Was lots of fun to get out of there too! Practically needed a jack hammer. I have a feeling that this owner wants least amount of manure and not having to sift through it and spend the time to clean the stall. I think bedding might be contrary to his thinking. The mats in front of a feeder sounds like the best way to go. Trinity, what were those mats you posted a long time ago about holding the ground around a large slow feeder? Can you remember? I bet those ones wouldn't get their edges kicked up or moved. If the ground got messy around that slow feeder, even the approach to it, I'd just move it and the mat to another part of the pen and give the ground a chance to recover. The mats just may be the best answer for this situation.
  24. Good find Chocomare! It's excerpts from Chapter 2 of Care and Rehabilitation of the Equine Foot called the Feral Horse Foot. This information is the findings of studies done of the Brumby herds in Australia as well as studies done on other herds in other countries. Its like a culmination of all wild horse hoof studies so far. They did this Brumby Swap, where they traded feral horses on hard substrate to low sandy ground to see how or if the hoof changed. There are before and after pics of one horse that went from sandy to hard. Before the hoof was long heeled, long toe, hoof was long, but no flare and hardly detectible flare forward. Frog was average size, sole exfoliating and heels starting to curl forward. After 8 weeks in hard substrate, it was shorter, stronger, no flare with wider frog and false sole....the kind of hoof we dream about. No pics on the hoof that went from hard to soft, but they did mention that the hard substrate feet appeared to have no enhanced protection against the pathology created by the reduced wear in the new environment. Yup, its a really good read, even for the 3rd time for me. I encourage everyone to take the time to read it. Its a real eye opener. Thanks, Chocomare!
  25. Progress Report/check (This One Is Good!)

    Doing good! Its a good trim schedule and a nice coax at each trim. The frog is starting to bloom and the false sole is coming out. The heels are also coming down and everything has almost arrived. Yes, the bars need to be cleaned up a bit more and heels pulled back just a tad more, but they are developing very well anyway. Looks like she's taken a sliver on the bars at each trim and its all coming together nicely. Look at the side shots on the LF between Oct and Dec. Look how the heel has come back and is now under her descending weight. Look at the change of the shape of the heel bulbs! Looks a lot stronger, doesn't it? It is! As for the LF, the turn is at the knee cap. It doesn't seem like so much as a "turn", but the way the knee joint is set medial to lateral. The hoof is responding and improving with its balance on this foot. Have patience. The sole is being obeyed and and you can't go wrong when you do that. I'd have to see a heel shot of the LF ( hold hoof up by fetlock and let it hang. Hold camera vertically in your hand, catch the heels and then lean forward to see the sole and to the toe in the background and catching the leg and part of the cannon as well. Keep the camera 2' away.) This one will help me to really check on the balance of this foot. I have a feeling though, that after next trim, things will be improved even more. Patience again. I'm wondering if she might have had a run in with physitis. The LF knee also has a tad of swelling below the knee cap. Looks clean up above it, though. With physitis, the bone growth gets aggressive and bone will be laid down faster on one side of the joint than the other. If you look at the knee caps, it seems that the inside of the joint is just a tad higher than the outside, setting the joint at an angle. What's coming out of the bottom of the knee cap is compensation, but it doesn't look like there's a twist or turn involved. Wish I could see both knee caps in this pic. I do see some small lumps in the fetlocks that are still going thru transition and will smooth out as the ducks get in order. In the meantime, the balance of today is good, obeys the sole and and coaxes the hoof to find itself, no matter what that needs to be and slow is good for these kinds of changes....exactly what this trimmer is doing. The physitis is related to diet though, particularily the "hotness" of the diet and the balance between calcium and phosphorus. It's like trying to keep a smouldering campfire from leaping into flames. (managing growth) A growth spurt alone can get that fire going, so you back off even more during those times. The vet would be best to have a conversation with about this. This joint could look a little cleaner than it is. Overall, she's doing very nicely, with the trim and you're homework.