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About ExtraHannah

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    Chief Stall Mucker
  • Birthday 08/26/1971

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    Friesians, horses of all sorts, dogs, cats, books and photography.
  1. How Do Teenagers Manage To Grow Up?

    I am sorry Mo's! Lots of good thoughts that she's learned a valuable lesson and this won't come back to haunt her.
  2. Berandee

    The area around the mouth and nostrils is called the muzzle in English, skjotta. I too always find your threads very informative. It hasn't been mentioned yet here, but I believe the slaughter practice in Iceland is much more humane. I think I remember you saying that great care is taken to ensure the horses are not stressed as that negatively impacts the flavor of the meat? ETA: I've also really enjoyed watching how much your written English as improved over the years on the boards. The things you word slightly differently are now generally just interesting/neat. I seldom ever have any issue with understanding exactly what you are saying any longer.
  3. Best Breeds Of Dogs To Be Around Young Children?

    Fabulous dogs. I wouldn't trade my Mal for anything. I would have one in second with a small child. Once something or someone is part of their "flock" they will protect it with their life. They are truly terrifying when protecting their own, yet can be so gentle. My girl loves kittens and will play fight with them all day. She's so gentle and careful not to injure them, it's amazing. That said, they are generally higher drive and even more sensitive than GSD's. They take a lot of training, though they are so smart it's easy. However, they also need a lot of mental and physical stimulation constantly. Probably not exactly what LC is in the market for at this point.
  4. Stallions

    OK, I'm going to rude and post without having read the entire thread. But I have actual thoughts floating about in my brain and want to get them down before they go "poof". I see a lot of similarity between breeding horses and breeding dogs. When I was young my aunt and a few older friends showed and bred dogs. At that time I believed the only dogs that should be bred were those with their AKC Championships, in addition to excellent marks on all appropriate health issues for the breed. The breeders I knew required a Championship of both males and females before even considering a cross.When I was young I was actually completely unaware that anyone kept a horse as a stallion if he hadn't proven himself in the ring. The only stallions I knew of were owned by huge farms, advertised heavily in breed magazines, etc. All of my horse exposure came from the Hunter farm where I took lessons and boarded. It really never crossed my mind that there were backyard breeders of horses. Of course, at that age I also believed that the only people that rode Western were those that needed the horn to hold onto. Well, those or Cowboys in the movies that couldn't ride worth a **** and yanked on their big old bits to get their horses to rear. You must remember that there was no internet, very little cable tv, etc. All I had to go on was what I had seen with my own eyes. The only people I saw in Western saddles were those that paid for an hour guided trail ride at the farm or those in the old westerns. Thirty plus years later, I've been exposed to much more, both through the internet and in real life. Hopefully, I've gained just a tiny bit of wisdom in that time. I've never been to a hunting dog trial, nor have I been lucky enough to visit a true working ranch. However, I've read about and seen these things online and on tv. I've also seen dog and horse shows in a bit of a new light. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that horse shows, and to some extent dog shows, were initially conceived (way, way back when) in order to provide a venue for owners to show off their working dogs or horses and have fun competing against each other. That has changed so much that it barely has anything in common with most shows for dogs and horses today. With dogs you now have "working lines" and "show lines" in many breeds now. The show dogs have been bred to look in a way that is most appealing to the humans that set the guidelines. This doesn't necessarily mean that they have the best conformation or personality to do the job they were originally bred for. This is even more obvious to me in the stock breeds. A halter class used to be a chace to show off how well your stallion was built to hold up and to do his job. The job of stock horses was mostly on working ranches. Now? Do you really think that even half of the top ten QH stallions in the country could be successful working ranch horses? There is no darn way! Now, whether that is a bad thing or just change in tastes and desires is a completely different debate. But what it does mean to me is that there are two different worlds in many breeds of horses and dogs. I, for one, am hugely thankful that there are still breeders out there producing dogs and horses that can work all day at their originally intended discipline. To me, it would be huge loss to the world if only AKC or breed show Champions were allowed to reproduce. Sure, some breeds can't prove themselves outside the show ring. My aunt's Rhodesian Ridgebacks don't get to prove themselves in the field. There just isn't a lot of call here for hunting lions. But those breeds that can and have proven themselves in the real world have every bit as much right to keep their jewels, IMHO, as the show winners. Yes, there will always be BYB's that claim their stallion is a great ranch horse when it's really just average. Just as many dog owner's believe their dogs deserve to be bred even if they haven't proven themselves in the ring or in the real world. (We have several members right here that breed their untitled dogs if I remember correctly.) However, I'm pretty sure any of the real ranchers know exactly what they are looking for in a ranch horse and have no problem separating the wheat from the chaff. It's pretty much the same way my last farrier could tell a truly exceptional coon dog from one he would never want to cross his expensive, proven females with. No matter what is that you are out doing constantly, hunting, ranching, etc. you start to know the other people's dogs and horses. You hear tales and you see with your own eyes. If you know what you're doing, you don't need those titles to tell you if that animal is worthy of reproducing.
  5. Thank you RP. I would like to chime in here as someone that is "crazy" and has been "institutionalized" due to my psychiatric disorders. Actually, the term "crazy" doesn't bother me nearly as much as "insane". I tell people up front that I'm crazy - LOL! I think insane has worse connotations because we hear so often about the "criminally insane". However, I've also been lucky enough to never have had someone use either of those terms in a negative manner towards me. If I had been demeaned by being called crazy, I'd probably feel very differently. My diagnosis is Bi-Polar II, with an extreme anxiety disorder and likely mild Asperger's syndrome. And yes, I do believe I'm a kind, caring, useful human being. Because my problems started so early I have had every test known to man including multiple IQ tests. I know it's probably hard to believe from reading my posts, but my IQ is well within the genius range. At least some of my issues are due to a "genetic abnormality". My Mom had serious issues, as did her mother. My great grandmother spent the last 20 years of her life without ever leaving her bedroom. She was not physically disabled, so I think it's a good bet that she too had mental issues. I personally began treatment at age 8. I have a ton I want to say here. However, it's my 1st Wedding Anniversary and my DH just ran out to get something from the store. If anyone cares, I'll come back and post my thoughts, feelings and experiences when I can devote my full attention to my reply.
  6. Ignore-Ance....

    Ann - I agree completely about fencing. No fencing is totally safe. The worst wreck I ever saw was when my Mini gelding was tearing around in a wet pasture. He slipped trying to make a turn, lowered his head, hit the fence with his neck, flipped completely and lay still with what we thought was a broken neck. Thankfully, he was just stunned and sore. That was a five board wooden fence. Certainly considered one of the more safe options. If it had been the woven wire we had in other places he likely would have bounced some and it wouldn't have been as bad. Our lower pasture, used only by my full sized horses, was 6 strands of very tight barbed wire. Would I use it now? No, not personally. However, we never had a problem with it. We put it up right and tight and we kept it that way. I won't ever give anyone crap about the type of fencing they choose to use. What I might say something about is the installation or maintenance. Because any type of fence is going to be much, much safer if it is well maintained and strung tightly. When posts are leaning, boards are broken or wire is sagging, then it becomes an issue to me. Because honestly it generally just takes a some hard work and little if any money to correct that sort of thing and it makes a huge difference in safety. Plain laziness, isn't a good excuse to me. It's also my personal belief that any fence is safer with at least one strand of hot wire, rope, or tape along the top. I won't give anyone crap for not having it, though if they ask, I'll suggest it. Any fencing, of any type I have in the future for pasture, will have a hot strand. The only time I don't like them is in smaller runs, etc. when it's too easy for a horse to hit it inadvertently.
  7. Mystery Illness

    Thank you everyone. I apologize zibadit! I need to learn to read for comprehension. That does sound like a possibility. Florida, I really have no clue where the water comes from beyond out of the woods. I will ask the BO. She's had horses on this property for over a decade and never an issue before, but that doesn't mean something new couldn't be being used "up creek". Blondy, it's so hard to know what the improvement was in response too. I suppose it could have been the removal of the tick, could have happened on it's own or could have been the DMSO tubing. Whatever it was, it was a very quick turn around which makes me think it was not the antibiotics that made the biggest difference. I'll let you guys know if I anything comes back in the blood work!
  8. Mystery Illness

    Thanks guys! Yes, there is a natural run-off type of creek in the pasture. It runs sometimes and not at others. Some of thee symptoms of PHF seem to fit. However, he was never anorexic, never lethargic, never dehydrated and his gums retained normal color. He showed no colic symptoms at any time that anyone saw. The diarrhea was quite mild and occurred about a week after all of the other symptoms. He'd have a normal pile and then one that was a little runny. I would assume, however, that this is one of the things the "tick guy" will test for. I know it's not tick born, but I got the feeling he was going to run every test possible on the blood to try to determine a cause. If it was PHF, is there a risk of recurrence since we used Doxy instead of Tetracycline?
  9. Mystery Illness

    :smileywavey:Hi guys! I have been going through an issue with Gulliver and figured the more people that read about it, the more likely that someone would have experienced something similar and be able to make a suggestion. An entire clinic of vets is at a loss. On the positive side, he now seems fully recovered from whatever it was. However, I hate not knowing the cause. With no idea of what happened, I can't be sure of preventing it from occurring again. Here's the rundown: 13 year old Paint cross gelding. On pasture with very minimal grass, but lots of room and free access to good quality grass hay - mostly fescue. Gets recommended amount of Enrich 32, Flax Supplement and small amount of beat pulp twice daily. No recent major changes. This was several weeks ago. Thursday night: Gulliver came in from the pasture moving stiffly in the back end. It was muddy and the BO thought maybe he'd slipped and pulled something. However, when she started feeling his hind end it was hot to the touch and he was quite sweaty despite very moderate temperatures. She took his temp and it was at 102. She also noticed his muscles in the back looked taut all the way up through his rib cage. She called me. I arrived and took his temp with my thermometer and it was 101.5. His back end was running with sweat and under his mane. However, only his hindquarters and back legs felt hot to the touch. When I asked him to move, it seemed more like pain in the back hooves then muscle stiffness at this point. I called the vet. He was not acting abnormal in any other way. In fact, he kept trying to play with the new barn kitten while we had him in the aisle. Bright, alert, peeing, pooping - all normal. Urine was not dark or smelly. When the vet arrived his temp was down to 100.5. However, he was now showing signs of pain in all four hooves and really didn't want to move at all. He had a bounding pulse in both hinds. He showed much more discomfort with the hoof testers on the hinds, but some in one front hoof and a tiny bit in the other. Vet treated him with a shot of banamine and then tubing with DMSO. She padded and wrapped all four hooves and we put him in his stall with deep bedding. She also prescribed bute twice a day for four days and then once a day for four days. Joe found a tick in his mane, but it was not a deer tick. However, the vet did take it with her. I headed home around 11 I think. Friday Very early Friday morning Gulliver's temp was back to his normal of around 99. He was showing probably an 80% or more improvement in his walking. Something most people only would have noticed if they were looking. Vet came out and tubed him again. Was amazed at his progress. We discussed either a toxin, Lyme disease, or one of many other not well understood tick born illnesses. Since there was a chance it was tick born, we first drew plenty of blood and then started him on a three week course of Doxy. She asked if I wanted to do a Lyme titer at that point and I said no. That I would rather wait until she came out the next week to do x-rays as I felt by then it would be less likely to get a false negative. Saturday Since it was a weekend I got the on call guy - a different vet. This was our normal vet and it was nice to have another take on what was going on. He tubed him a last time with the DMSO and had me move Gulliver around at walk with tight turns. Gulliver appeared completely sound at that point with his pads. Vet said we should leave pads on for a week or until they wore through. He also said that we didn't have to keep him stalled full time anymore. He didn't want him going out with the horses though as he didn't want him to get pushed around and be forced to move more than wanted. So, we put Gulliver in a dry lot/paddock. Sunday: No real change. He seemed perfectly healthy. Monday When I got there and called him, Gulliver trotted up to me on his own. Completely sound. He had worn through his boots, so I took them off. BO and I took turns walking and turning him in hand and neither of us could see even a tiny bit of lameness. His temp has stayed normal all this time as well. Thursday: Vet came out and took x-rays of all four. Other than the fact that he had thin soles (which I knew and am working on) his x-rays looked perfect. No obvious changes at all. Vet still wanted him to be shod all the way around with pour in support for a while. Farrier will be out this week to do so. He's willing to use Ground Control shoes, which I would prefer, so I have those ready for him. The only real bump in Gully's lightning fast recovery was that he got some diarrhea for a while. I think I would too if someone dumped bute, DMSO and antibiotics into my poor stomach all at once. That cleared up quickly with two doses of bio-sponge and then daily probiotics. So, a thousand dollars later, the discussion about what actually happened has everyone stumped. Some are telling me Lyme. Others are saying there's no way it's Lyme and probably not anything tick born as he responded so incredibly quickly to treatment and had no issues with his joints. That side is leaning towards some kind of toxin that raised his temp significantly enough to cause the hoof issues and was already dropping by the time he was brought in.Tying up has been mentioned. Ummm, can't think what all else, but nothing seems to fit exactly. It's an odd enough case that the "tick born disease specialist" at NC State agreed to test the tick and run complete blood work, from before the antibiotics were given, for free. Haven't heard back on that yet. Thoughts?
  10. The Best $400 I Have Ever Spent!

    I'm not here much anymore, but I couldn't resist a post with "Pony" mentioned. I do so love ponies! She is very cute and looks wonderful as a driving pony. I will say that I don't know anything about barrel racing. Nor would I ever "attack" a child or adult rider for their equitation. Well, unless it was an adult that insisted they "knew it all" and were actually a crummy rider and semi-abusive in their practices. As was mentioned, we all started out green as grass. I started at a hunter barn taking lessons once a week at age 8. I'm sure I had chicken wings and heels up at first.. However, we weren't allowed to trot until we could hold a decent position and had some semblance of body control and communication at the walk. It then progressed from there. Slowly. If you were bored because the instructor wasn't letting you jump, then you weren't committed enough to ride. Period. I had a year of lessons - approximately 50 - before I had the basics down well enough to be allowed to jump. At the same time, I went to my first show and entered a walk/trot class. I was always taught that you should show at least one "level" below what you're doing at home. That went for hunters and it was the same when I changed to dressage lessons as an adult. If you're schooling 1st Level at home, you show in Training Level. At least that's what I was taught. So, my point is not that your kid is an awful rider or that he shouldn't be riding or anything of the sort. I'm all for getting more kids interested in riding. I just kind of equate it to jumping for me. I personally wouldn't allow my child to run barrels at all, until they could show good position and body control over their horse at first a walk, then a trot and then a canter. Once they could hold that position and communicate reasonably well then maybe I'd have them spend time trotting the barrel pattern. Working on their own position and the bend, responsiveness, etc of the pony. Just like even after I started jumping, I was only initially allowed to trot over single, small, jumps. This allowed me to focus on my communication and position, without worrying about strides and speed. As I improved I was eventually allowed to jump multiple fences and start cantering them. However, we all look at things differently. Your child, your pony, totally your call. It's a well cared for looking pony who is not being abused in the true sense. She looks like she has a lot of potential and it would be awesome if she and your son could reach that potential that is in both of them. In retrospect, I am very thankful that as a green rider on a green pony, I had the instructor I did and that he beat the basics into my brain before allowing me to advance. I think it made me a better rider with a happier, more willing pony in the long run. That said, I was a much better rider at 25 than I am now at almost 40. I took a long time off and I've lost a lot of my finesse and ease in the saddle. I feel like a potato up there sometimes these days and it's frustrating. However, due to those lessons over the years, I at least have a good idea of what I'm doing wrong and need to work on. Even if my body won't always cooperate. ETA: I am well aware that many parents can't afford weekly riding lessons. I was very lucky my Grandmother paid for it as my Christmas/Birthday present every year. However, if they can afford to keep horses than I would think they could find the money for an occasional lesson. Then parent and child can work on the things the instructor suggested until they can take another lesson. In addition, be longed without reins is something that can be done at home for no cost. Eventually working up to being longed without reins or stirrups is hugely helpful when a rider is trying to learn to balance and follow the horse. It can also teach how rely much less on the reins for communication. If a safe horse is available, riding bareback in a halter can be useful as well.
  11. Pics Of My 2Yo From The Trainer Today

    I agree, you have a bay going gray, but fairly slowly. The speed at which they gray varies a lot in individuals.It generally happens in a similar order, but not always. Other, that is, than the fact that the face turns gray first. I've never seen a horse start to gray without it beginning on the head. But as soon as you put out an absolute about something, you're proven wrong it often seems. The terms rose gray or steel gray aren't really technical terms. Just designations to explain a bit more and in shorter terms what color a graying individual appears at a given time. Usually horses called steel gray have a black base coat. Most commonly rose gray is used to refer to chestnuts turning gray. However, it can also be used on bays with the gray gene if their non black portions have more of a reddish tinge, rather than brown. Certain chestnuts with gray will even go though a faze where they almost look pink! LOL The easiest way to tell a gray from a roan is that a roan's head will remain dark (other than any wight markings it may have been born with) and a gray's head will be the first area to lighten. They are often even born with gray/white "googles" around their eyes.
  12. The Time Has Come Bittersweet Goodbye

    Everyone's said it so much better than I can. It sounds like you have found a wonderful home and are doing the right thing for your family and by your horses. I'm sorry. I know how hard it must be.
  13. Straighteners

    My fairly cheap Wal-mart Wet 2 Straight Remington works great for me. I just use a leather barn glove - LOL. I use Aveda Brilliant Damage Control with Camomille before I straighten. I've got several spray shines, and really like the smell of the Aveda one and use it for touch-ups. However, I think Pureology Colour Stylist Cuticle Polisher works the best right after straightening. It's a cream.
  14. People Who Neglect And Abuse Horses...psa

    a I am far from an expert on horse rescue or neglect/abuse cases. However, I did volunteer work for a local rescue for several years. After some time with them I also took a 3 or 4 day course at our State Vet School and came out with a "certification" in Equine Neglect and Abuse Investigation. I've never even bothered to mention it, because while I did learn quite a bit, I don't think studying anything for a long weekend can make you anywhere close to an expert. However, one of the main things we were taught, what was pounded into our heads was that many, many times those that neglect and abuse animals can also be violent towards humans. We were taught how to safely document from the road and in other ways if possible, how to track down owners and addresses, etc. We were told that never should we approach the individual as it could possibly be putting our own lives in danger. Once we legally obtained as much documentation as possible, we turned it over to others in the organization and it was determined from there how to safely proceed. The main goal of this organization, at least at that time, was to educate. We never wanted to take horses - we only had so many funds, so much room in the quarantine barn and so many foster homes. My partner and I broke the rule about not approaching on our own once. She was good friends with the gentleman that lived on the property where the horses were being kept by someone else. The property owner had called and reported them himself. So, we went out there and we started checking out the horses. Unfortunately, the irate owner showed up and began screaming and threatening us. When her husband arrived soon after in a truck with an obviously full gun rack, we left. Quickly. So, yeah, I'll admit I was scared and there were lots of other situations I that I saw or heard about that scared me. People that abuse animals are much more likely to abuse or become violent with other humans. There were often times when we did talk to people and educate. AFTER it had been determined to be safe. Someone in our organization ran background checks, spoke to neighbors, etc. Many times when we did speak to them the owner's were truly appreciative of the help. These were people that just didn't know any better and needed some guidance. We shared nutritional information, the names of good hay suppliers that would deliver if needed, and lots of literature on proper care. etc. These were the most rewarding for me as the horses got to stay with their owners, but their care improved significantly. I did not report in the case on this board, but I will never fault someone for reporting anonymously rather than talking to someone first. Sometimes you can get a good feel and be confident that someone is not violent or dangerous and then approach with the offer of education or assistance in placing, etc. But if you aren't 100% sure, you've got to put your own safety first. Had I witnessed someone I didn't know, shooting two horses?? Darn right I would call the authorities and have them look into it!! Here's someone I don't know, with a gun, and I should approach him to question why he's using that gun?? No way in heck. As has been said over and over, if your care is good, there's nothing to fear. Actually, sadly, even if your care is barely adequate, there's nothing to fear. I've never been called on, but wouldn't have an issue in the world if I were. I hope, some of this long rambling dissertation does tie into Broo's original topic. This was a post offering for people that just don't have the equine education to reach out and get help in improving their own horses' care, anonymously. With no judgment if they truly wanted to improve things, but were just unsure how. It was the chance for someone who has seen abuse or neglect and didn't know how to proceed to reach out, anonymously, and get help from those with experience in neglect/abuse cases. Despite all the twists and turns, it does sound like some people and some horses have been helped because of this thread. I hope people will politely discuss what is acceptable and what is neglect in their eyes. While it would be wonderful it there was a clear cut line, there's not. Some things are obviously completely unacceptable to all but the most blind. Other things though, are in shades of gray and maybe discussion here will help even those that don't reach out make some minor changes or improvements in the care they provide.
  15. People Who Neglect And Abuse Horses...psa

    Manonthemountain - I believe there has been some misunderstandings, not sure how many, due to the way you word things. I am open to new ideas and different philosophies as long as they don't lead to true abuse or neglect. I would love a direct reply to this post. Can you tell us what animals you have, what they do for you and how you care for them? I see from one post that you have stitched and cared for wounds in the past. Do you also do farrier work? What do you provide (or do you) in the way of feed and how do your horses look and act with what they are getting? Could you share some pictures? I'm genuinely curious! I do agree in some ways that man's belief that they can do better than mother nature is erroneous. Our pride has made us try to tweak many things in the world that have ended up disastrously. I'm thinking first and foremost of the purposeful introduction of non-endemic plants and animals to certain areas. In trying to improve on nature, we've almost always made things worse - created huge issues for the endemic species, etc. I know there are lots of different opinions on vaccinations for both humans and animals. I know someone that does not vaccinate her dogs for anything other than rabies. She is also an extremely conscientious dog owner, who's never had a dog get out and is isolated from other dogs. That's fine with me. The same can be said for horses as long as you're not going to bring your unvaccinated animals to a show, parade, etc. and possibly expose my horses to things. I know there are different beliefs on lots of care issues with horses. As long as an animal is healthy and not in pain, starving or otherwise compromised, then I don't have a problem with others doing things differently than I do. All that said, mother nature is wonderful, capricious and cruel. Feral horses, and pretty much all other wild animals, suffer regularly and greatly. And those mustangs have had many, many generations to weed out the weak and live "wild". Yet they still suffer from starvation, injury and more. Just look at those pictures of the stallion Andi posted. It's a tough life out there in the wild. We have been breeding for so long based on behaviors, looks and movements that we desire in our animals that we have nearly removed "survival of the fittest" from the equation for domesticated horses. Yes, we did that and because of that the vast majority of our horses would probably be unable to survive in the wild and would certainly suffer. They are even less capable then those mustangs. I look at it as a trade off. The horses give us something. They work for us, or even just provide the pleasure of their company. In exchange it is only right that we provide them with all the water, feed, hoof care and health care that they need. Otherwise, you've taken something from them - their freedom - and given nothing in return. How is that fair? How does that jibe with living free and being in harmony with mother nature? I don't have an issue with equines that are used primarily as helpmates and work animals. I don't have an issue with the fact that someone may humanely end the life of a horse that is no longer useful. Though that's NOT what I do with my animals and never could. However, I believe that's an individual's prerogative. I do have a serious issue with someone allowing an animal in their care to suffer for an extended time. Be that by starvation, hooves in poor repair, a lack of medical treatment, or anything else. I believe by taking on and using these animals we, at the very minimum, take on the duty to end their suffering if we cannot or will not keep them healthy and reasonably happy. A humane death is acceptable to me. Allowing extended suffering is not. As to your last question. I honestly don't know how many generations an animal must be bred in captivity to be considered domesticated and thus feral if placed back in the wild. However, I'm quite sure that these animals have wild ancestors much, much closer in their lines then the vast majority of our horses. I also know that when this is done to save a species it is done very carefully. The breedings are carefully controlled and the animals are raised as close to how they will live in the wild as is humanely possible. Not something we do with our horses. And still, there is almost always a large percentage of "failures". Meaning even with the goal from beginning to end being reintroduction, many of the animals will not be able to make the transition and successfully survive when released.