thejazzyone

Members
  • Content count

    52
  • Joined

  • Last visited

    Never

About thejazzyone

  • Rank
    Newbie

Contact Methods

  • ICQ
    0

Profile Information

  • Location
    San Francisco, CA
  • Interests
    Horses, fiction writing, astronomy, Egyptology, paleontology, etc.
  1. No disrespect.

    Okay, nobody has come up with any reason at all for me to believe in this fairy tale of horse "disrespect." I was fairly certain that would happen. If it were a real phenomenon, research scientists would be studying it because it would indicate a vast change in the horses' intellectual evolution. Research scientists are ignoring it, so I presume that it's a figment of your imaginations. I've read your anecdotal tales regarding your horses' "disrespect" and there are alternative explanations in all cases for the behavior. For whatever reason, you don't want to consider those alternatives and make your horses' lives better. Some of you have gotten openly hostile over the mere suggestion. I can only learn what not to do from you, so I will not say anything more about this. I wish you all well -- but please remember: consider the horse. Rita
  2. No disrespect.

    Okay, nobody has come up with any reason at all for me to believe in this fairy tale of horse "disrespect." I was fairly certain that would happen. If it were a real phenomenon, research scientists would be studying it because it would indicate a vast change in the horses' intellectual evolution. Research scientists are ignoring it, so I presume that it's a figment of your imaginations. I've read your anecdotal tales regarding your horses' "disrespect" and there are alternative explanations in all cases for the behavior. For whatever reason, you don't want to consider those alternatives and make your horses' lives better. Some of you have gotten openly hostile over the mere suggestion. I can only learn what not to do from you, so I will not say anything more about this. I wish you all well -- but please remember: consider the horse. Rita
  3. Disrespect?

  4. Disrespect?

  5. Disrespect?

    quote: Originally posted by jumpinghorses: Why do I think that? Because I have lived that. My own personal gelding thinks that if he can kick out in my direction, even when he is on the other side of a fence and nowhere near me, he got points in his score column. By not allowing that, I keep those points. If you watch them in a herd the alpha horse will punish even the smallest transgression in order to maintain his/her position in the herd. That is what we must do too. So I don't strike them, I make them move their feet and I maintain my position in the herd by telling them when to go, how fast to go, where to go and when they get to stop. I see. Your horse is keeping SCORE! Talk about anthropomorphizing! You are attributing to that horse the properties of a.) mathematical skill, b.) logical progression, c.) vengeance and d.) prior planning. Your horse should be given to science if he's capable of all that! Horses ARE very smart. Their brains are the most effective and complex of all the terrestial herbivores except for the African elephant. They have a complex set of emotions, an extraordinary memory, and the ability to learn complex patterns. However, they can't plan -- certainly not plan the way you are suggesting. That sort of planning requires a time sense and knowledge of the existence of the future and how their behavior impacts the future. Their brains are not wired for that. They are very good at being horses, but not so good at being human. Rita
  6. Disrespect?

    quote: Originally posted by jumpinghorses: Why do I think that? Because I have lived that. My own personal gelding thinks that if he can kick out in my direction, even when he is on the other side of a fence and nowhere near me, he got points in his score column. By not allowing that, I keep those points. If you watch them in a herd the alpha horse will punish even the smallest transgression in order to maintain his/her position in the herd. That is what we must do too. So I don't strike them, I make them move their feet and I maintain my position in the herd by telling them when to go, how fast to go, where to go and when they get to stop. I see. Your horse is keeping SCORE! Talk about anthropomorphizing! You are attributing to that horse the properties of a.) mathematical skill, b.) logical progression, c.) vengeance and d.) prior planning. Your horse should be given to science if he's capable of all that! Horses ARE very smart. Their brains are the most effective and complex of all the terrestial herbivores except for the African elephant. They have a complex set of emotions, an extraordinary memory, and the ability to learn complex patterns. However, they can't plan -- certainly not plan the way you are suggesting. That sort of planning requires a time sense and knowledge of the existence of the future and how their behavior impacts the future. Their brains are not wired for that. They are very good at being horses, but not so good at being human. Rita
  7. Disrespect?

    quote: Originally posted by oldtimegirl: humm.... You throw a rock at your weanling, and that is "okay", and yet a young girl hits her horse for biting and it is NOT okay? Well, it was hardly a boulder. It hit him in the shoulder and he hasn't charged me since. As for hitting with the hand for biting, here's the truth about that -- hitting with the hand "personalizes" it. The horse knows exactly what hit him and how. If she WANTS her horse to bite her, that's a great way to make that happen. She is training that horse to bite by hitting him with her hand. I don't think that's what she wanted. Besides, nobody has convinced me yet that her horse SHOULD have been punished. Perhaps that horse had every good reason to bite her. I don't know the person or the horse, so it's hard to say -- but if the silly woman went ahead and hit her horse out of ignorance because you TOLD her to, she probably deserves whatever she gets. Rita
  8. Disrespect?

    quote: Originally posted by oldtimegirl: humm.... You throw a rock at your weanling, and that is "okay", and yet a young girl hits her horse for biting and it is NOT okay? Well, it was hardly a boulder. It hit him in the shoulder and he hasn't charged me since. As for hitting with the hand for biting, here's the truth about that -- hitting with the hand "personalizes" it. The horse knows exactly what hit him and how. If she WANTS her horse to bite her, that's a great way to make that happen. She is training that horse to bite by hitting him with her hand. I don't think that's what she wanted. Besides, nobody has convinced me yet that her horse SHOULD have been punished. Perhaps that horse had every good reason to bite her. I don't know the person or the horse, so it's hard to say -- but if the silly woman went ahead and hit her horse out of ignorance because you TOLD her to, she probably deserves whatever she gets. Rita
  9. Disrespect?

    quote: Originally posted by Merry: By the time a horse does unnacceptable things, as that colt is, someone has been missing too many other situations that is letting that colt think it can do them. If we manage well, we won't be in those situations, where a colt may want to charge/kick/bite at us, or mash us on a fence, etc. Well, the point is, he no longer does those dangerous things and hasn't done any of them for a while now. It required six occasions of physical punishment -- one thrown rock, one strike with the longe whip and four hits with a soft cotton lead rope over eight and a half months of time. If I were to micromanage him, or even just manage him, now, when he's not doing anything dangerous, he'd get awfully sick of having me around. In fact, he might well resume some of those bad behaviors. Well, THAT is not what I want! Talk about self-defeating. I believe in leaving my colt alone when he's doing what I want and not doing what I don't want. If he is longeing perfectly and doing his stops, walks and trots, why would I want to muck that up? Rita
  10. Disrespect?

    quote: Originally posted by Merry: By the time a horse does unnacceptable things, as that colt is, someone has been missing too many other situations that is letting that colt think it can do them. If we manage well, we won't be in those situations, where a colt may want to charge/kick/bite at us, or mash us on a fence, etc. Well, the point is, he no longer does those dangerous things and hasn't done any of them for a while now. It required six occasions of physical punishment -- one thrown rock, one strike with the longe whip and four hits with a soft cotton lead rope over eight and a half months of time. If I were to micromanage him, or even just manage him, now, when he's not doing anything dangerous, he'd get awfully sick of having me around. In fact, he might well resume some of those bad behaviors. Well, THAT is not what I want! Talk about self-defeating. I believe in leaving my colt alone when he's doing what I want and not doing what I don't want. If he is longeing perfectly and doing his stops, walks and trots, why would I want to muck that up? Rita
  11. Disrespect?

    quote: Originally posted by jumpinghorses: I can't speak for others but when I say a horse is being disrespectful is when they are virtually giving the horsey version of the "bird". This is, we are working with them and they are showing disrespect to us like they do other horses in the herd. Pinning ears, kicking towards us (even if they are 20 or 30 feet away), nipping/biting, even raising a leg to offer to kick is a sign of disrespect. Anything that would get him punished if he did it to the alpha mare is disrespect and reason to move his feet. If I think it is a fear response I use a different approach that is calmer and more towards showing that there is nothing to be afraid of than if it is just out of attitude. Our horses have to work even if they are having a bad day just like we do. We both need to work with respect even if we are in a bad mood. The only time I strike a horse is if he is putting me in emminent danger. Like the 3 yo that tried to pin me against a fence when I was putting his sheet on a couple of weeks ago. There was no room or time to send him off and make him move his feet to I elbowed him to get him off. I then made him disengage and back and he hasn't done it since. I don't think striking a horse is necessary unless you are in danger and then never on/near the head. Anyway, I hope I made it a little more clear of what I consider disrespect. Why do you think that a horse kicking 20 or 30 feet away is somehow dangerous to you? It sounds like playfulness to me. My colt does the same thing, and he also knows never to behave that way anywhere near people or other horses. He's a colt, a baby. Of course he's going to play. It isn't disrespect. It's high spirits. I like that. I wouldn't want him to be anything else. Of course, if he comes near me or anyone else with that act of his, he will get wapped a good one. Dangerous behavior is not acceptable and never will be -- but I still don't see how anything a horse does in this sense is "disrespectful." I don't claim to be able to read his mind, of course. I just know that Jazz looks to be having fun when he bucks and kicks his way across the arena. That goes for my two older horses, too, and I am even more glad to see it when they do it. There's life in those old guys! I am also not an alpha mare. I can't expect my horses to know that I'm not a horse and so they are not to play with me as though I were one and then expect them to treat me as though I were a horse! My horses know I am not a horse. They also know I am their friend, whatever species I happen to be. That seems to work best of all. Rita
  12. Disrespect?

    quote: Originally posted by jumpinghorses: I can't speak for others but when I say a horse is being disrespectful is when they are virtually giving the horsey version of the "bird". This is, we are working with them and they are showing disrespect to us like they do other horses in the herd. Pinning ears, kicking towards us (even if they are 20 or 30 feet away), nipping/biting, even raising a leg to offer to kick is a sign of disrespect. Anything that would get him punished if he did it to the alpha mare is disrespect and reason to move his feet. If I think it is a fear response I use a different approach that is calmer and more towards showing that there is nothing to be afraid of than if it is just out of attitude. Our horses have to work even if they are having a bad day just like we do. We both need to work with respect even if we are in a bad mood. The only time I strike a horse is if he is putting me in emminent danger. Like the 3 yo that tried to pin me against a fence when I was putting his sheet on a couple of weeks ago. There was no room or time to send him off and make him move his feet to I elbowed him to get him off. I then made him disengage and back and he hasn't done it since. I don't think striking a horse is necessary unless you are in danger and then never on/near the head. Anyway, I hope I made it a little more clear of what I consider disrespect. Why do you think that a horse kicking 20 or 30 feet away is somehow dangerous to you? It sounds like playfulness to me. My colt does the same thing, and he also knows never to behave that way anywhere near people or other horses. He's a colt, a baby. Of course he's going to play. It isn't disrespect. It's high spirits. I like that. I wouldn't want him to be anything else. Of course, if he comes near me or anyone else with that act of his, he will get wapped a good one. Dangerous behavior is not acceptable and never will be -- but I still don't see how anything a horse does in this sense is "disrespectful." I don't claim to be able to read his mind, of course. I just know that Jazz looks to be having fun when he bucks and kicks his way across the arena. That goes for my two older horses, too, and I am even more glad to see it when they do it. There's life in those old guys! I am also not an alpha mare. I can't expect my horses to know that I'm not a horse and so they are not to play with me as though I were one and then expect them to treat me as though I were a horse! My horses know I am not a horse. They also know I am their friend, whatever species I happen to be. That seems to work best of all. Rita
  13. .. Is it supposed to be this easy?

  14. .. Is it supposed to be this easy?

  15. Attitude under saddle

    quote: Originally posted by satansfury: As most of you know by now (from my incessant posts), I have an 8 year old App mare which I started under saddle last year. She was never really ridden much before (some rides as a 2-3 year old, but nothing strenuous, just kinda letting her carry a rider around), and didn't do anything at all except sit in a pasture and play with her friends. She likes people (they feed her and scratch her), but isn't too keen on this whole "work" deal. My colt's dam was the same way. She was ridden too young, came to hate being ridden due to abuse and the fact that, every time someone rode her, her latest foal was yanked away from her, and due to pain because of damage to her back. She especially connected having her foals taken away with someone throwing a saddle on her back. Oh, she bucked! Like a rodeo horse! She sunfished! What did I do? I went back to square one in her training -- treating her like she was a young filly (she's 16 years old,) letting her catch up with her training at her own speed (and not mine,) introduced clicker training along with some natural horsemanship methods -- and now anyone can ride her. We have also let her keep her foal, my colt Jazz. He had to be removed from her presence just once, and that was when he was gelded and we didn't want him around other horses for fear of injury and infection. We returned him to her and she looked SO surprised. Apparently, that never happened to her before. She trusts people now and has become a lovely riding horse for all but the smallest children. It takes work to bring a horse back to square one (catching, haltering, leading, ground work on and off the longe line, etc.) and perhaps you don't want to be the one to do it. You may consider hiring a trainer. Or sell the mare. IMHO. Rita