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karakk

Parelli thoughts

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Aspects of Natural Horsemanship have been around since man first started training horses. When it became a trade-marked term, with a trainer's name in front of it, it reached out to the world at large and helped connect the average horse owner with, for the most part, good basic principles of safety and empathy for the horse.

I don't care for the "sexy"-ing up of traditional training that Parelli does (and it especially irritates me that he tries to make it sound like he originated the ideas), but if it means horses will be treated better and misunderstood less then I guess it's not all bad.

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Agreed, this could be a train wreck, however if we all try, we can keep it civil! [big Grin]

That said, nothing wrong with Natural Horsemanship. I am not, however, a Parelli fan. I boarded at a place where the owners trained it and were very big into it. I do not care for a lot of the methods and things he teaches. I felt so strongly about it that I read some of his book in Barnes & Noble one night and discovered that a lot of the things Parelli teaches, go against the classic principals of dressage. That clinched it for me.

I had a friend that was getting into it out there also and she was really enjoying it, so power to her. We agreed to not even talk about it together since we both leaned such opposite ways on it. My thought on that is, if she was enjoying it, that was her business, just don't try to drag me into it. I read the book and it is not for me. [Wink]

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My sister an i have both done parelli with our horses and like all training it depends on the horse as to what works best. My horse could have cared less but he is just that kind of stuborn horse anyways while my sisters horse is mores spooky and it help him to trust her better. Now mind you it did not make him brave because he will do the same old thing with everyone else. It just helped the two of them build a relationship. So just remeber that it never hurt to try something new but just stick with what works for your horse the best. There is never only one right way and the only wrong way is when people turn to abuse because they have no other tools to use.

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As overheard in the barn a couple of days ago: "I knew old cowboys doing that stuff long before they were sellin' tickets for it."

A lot of it is common sense: just some smart business people figured out a great way to market to the people most likely to buy into it.

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i think of it like this..

GOOD Horsemanship is 100% natural horsemanship.....

But

Natural horsemanship is not always good horsemanship

it all depends on the person who is using it.

i personally am NOT a fan of parelli.. hes a decent rider, none the less, but is backed by GOOD marketing staff.. if we all had the marketing he does, wed be rich too.. im not a real fan of the smoke and lights he usually puts out.. hes also not afraid to admit that nothing hes done is "new". natural horsemanship is based on GOOD horsemanship skills and has been around since the beginning of humans riding..

the problem i see in alot of the parelli program lies in the majority of its participants.. looking for a way to become "natural" adn develope those areas that we are all lacking in, especially when we are green... repitition is good, in the right dosage..

timing and feel are also somethign that cannot be taught properly through some videos, a book or even lessons and clinics (in the case of the parelli people i know)..

example: last summer i had just bought a 4 yo mare, who had about 100 rides as a 2yo.. i decided to take her to a "parelli" clinic. thinking it woudl be a good experience for both of us.. was it ever.. i thought it was a good time for me to check out things outside of my "western pleasure & dressage" box.

i watch the first day's groundwork portion.. knowing that almost all of the participants had been riding with this clinician for 3-6 years (numourous times per year). i was litterally [Eek!][Duh][shocked] . granted i have seen some parelli disiples who are VERY good, as was the clinician. but the other participants had absolutley no sence of TIMING or FEEL.. let alone horses that had any manners or respect. So after seeing some fo teh rest of the riding, i decided that i was going to take part in teh collection adn flying changes portions of the clinic, what could it hurt? i knew my horse was farther along than all of the horses there, and she only had 100 days plus abbout 10 rides from me...

so my sessions included an 8 year old, (who i knew from birth) ground work since birth and hadn't even been RIDDEN! a couple "level 2's" that i would call bare bones beginnners.. several spoiled beyond belief horses and their excuse making owners.. one dressage rider (very good rider), and the clinican who was on a 2yo..

now taking into consideration that these riders (minus the clinician and dressage rider) had lots of trouble with leads, posting on the correct diagonal, and just plain keeping their horse moving FORWARD... but "knew everything" and continue to look down their noses at me and my mare wearing my show saddle (the only western saddle i had that fit her at the time)..

Needless to say, the dressage rider and my self, were the only ones to move into teh canter/lope portion of collection, and acctually achieve our flying changes..

i was completely shocked that the clinician singled me out as his example for all of his demonstrations, as were the other participants. They all knew i had NO experience with "parelli" and god-forbid learned to ride without parelli..

it was an experience to say the least. parelli has its place, but its not my place. i have found that alot of the riders who really excell with parelli have roots elsewhere...

all of this is purely my opinion and my personal experience, and should be taken as such.. free advice is just that.. take it for what its worth, NOTHING.. LOL..

Lets not turn this post into a "flame-fest" as the other parelli posts have seemed to become this past week..

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quote:

Originally posted by RollingThunder:

LOL. Whatever you do, please don't bring this discussion over to the training board.

[Eek!] just the thought... [shocked]

But I have to say that you handle it just fine over here. [big Grin]

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I definitely have more of an appreciation for Monty Roberts. He does "natural horsemanship" but it is a way that I think appeals more to the horse's natural instincts and teaches more respect- I'm not bashing, I've never personally tried Parelli. But if anyone out there has ever joined up with their horse, they know what I'm talking about. It's an amazing feeling and it totally changed things for me and my horse.

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i agree with what a lot of you are saying. i have nothing against "natural horsemanship", but i mean its common sense. i do, however, have no respect for parelli. like someone else said, they act like hey invented it. good for them that they are making money. i feel like they over analyze things way too much though. there are some NH trainers that i do like, but parelli isnt one of them.

i have a funny story i have to share. at team sorting i was standing in the arena, and there was this person having a "lesson" with a parelli trainer. they were 'lunging' the horse, and the horse wouldnt go. they were trying to use all these like hidden cues, and waves of the magic carrot stick. the horse would not move. they were trying to analyze why he wouldnt go. it took them like 15 minutes to get the horse to move. i was thinking to myself i couldve gotten that horse to move in about 2 seconds with a whap on the rump with that carrot stick. i couldnt help but laugh, i honestly couldnt believe why someone would pay money for that. ok theres my little rant.

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There is great and terrible points to the whole 'natural horsemanship' thing. There are some, like Roberts, Anderson, Parelli who know what they are doing. Wheather or not you agree is another point entirely. I have worked with a trainer who does mostly western, but has very strong dressage principles, and he considers himself a 'natural horseman' because he teaches ground manners as well as teaching the rider to move with the horse and help the horse balance correctly. His horses are calm and polite, yet they still retain their personality, they don't turn into push-button robots.

I've tried many different forms of training, kind of taking and discarding what I want. It's too bad that there are many people who claim to be 'natural' and are no more than a nasty, pushy, abuser. Those people in the horse world that are less knowlageable fall into these traps all the time, so some parts of natural horsemanship get a bad rap.

The one thing that irks me though about many of the natual horsemanship people is their refusal to wear a helmet. I'm not flaming people that ride w/out helmets, as my best horsie friend is sans one, but they are public figures in the horse world and they should provide a good example. (I have see riders under Monty Roberts ride young horses with helmets, but other that him it seems fewer do.) They say that if you are in partnership with your horse you won't fall off. I think that is crap, as there is NO way anyone, no matter how experienced, can stay on all the time.

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i don't do dressage, but this thread caught my eye.i've been thinking a lot about "big time" trainers like that.i think Pat has good intentions to help people understand horses better.

i knew some people that raised ponies, and would knock them down when the ponies did something the people didn't like.i couldn't for the life of me get them to understand that this was wrong, so i invited them to a Parelli clinic(he was in town).and it was like a smack in the face fo rthem that they need to have more respect for their horses.

i have however, seen people mis-use what they've seen parelli do.it's all about how you use what's been given to you, i think.anyways...thats all from me

[big Grin]

oh and the helmet thing...i don't wear a helmet because i think i won't fall of my horse.i KNOW i will,lol.i understand the benefits of helmets and all.it's just my preferance not to wear one.but don't look down on those that do!

anyways, now i really am done talking.

[ 02-15-2007, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: sandance kid ]

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I personally do not like Parelli (the man AND his methods), but there are people out there who swear by him. To each their own - there is more than one way to tackle the same problem.

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My only experience with a natural horsemanship "trainer" was pretty bad..

This woman put my horse on a leadline and started whacking her across the chest with a dressage whip. My horse freaked out and the lady whacked her harder and harder until finally she ran backwards and wouldn`t get within 10 feet of that lady. I took my horse away immediately and to this day, if you smack that horse on the chest she will ATTACK you.

I had the sense to understand that this woman was CLEARLY misusing the principles of natural horsemanship training. Just shows how some people can totally twist what the clinicians and trainers are putting out there.

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Different people have different goals...I know someone who badly wanted their own horse, but was pretty much physically unable to ride; so the ground games worked for her.

Along with a lot of others here...and yes, I borrowed the dvd's and watched most of them, I think that these ideas have been around forever and this is all marketing...I have seen these people buy things that have his name on it and the stuff is so pricey!!!

So nope, not a fan...don't want to ride my horse out of a moving trailer, without a helmet, using only a carrot stick to guide him...seems a bit dangerous!

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I don't know his methods specifically. I do know that I use some methods from one of them...the person will remain unnamed.

I feel that my time spent on the ground with my horses, translates or helps my undersaddle work in a positive way.

I feel I wouldn't ride my daughters fizzy horse as well as I do , if it wasn't for the obediance work I do with him on the ground. (he doesn't need it, he came with impeccable ground manners) but that's not the point. It's him responding to my commands specifically. Me being a leader to him. He would like to take over as lead when I ride him. I swear the ground work is what makes us work together.

My daughter feels I should work with a persons horse at the farm....teach her my ground exercises. She is very advanced, yet struggles with her horse. We feel it's the terrible way he behaves on the ground.

I dunno. I just strongly feel a horse should not ever be in your space on the ground. And should always move out of your way.

ya.

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The commercial aspect of natural horsemanship is what I hate. If you are a good horse man, you are using natural horsemanship. It really is just common sense, care, and understanding.

On top of what many people have said, I decided Parelli was not for me after reading some of his ideas. Fluidity is good in theory, but the moment I read something to the effect that to get your horse to round his back, do the samething to yourself, I was out. Maybe I misunderstood, but somethings that he said just seem to contradict basic training principles (and the laws of physics). Also, I watched a video where Linda jumped a metal pinic table with no protection on her horse's legs, with no helmet, and a halter and a lead rope. That just isn't smart. She also let her horse run out, and said "hmm, that's interesting" whenever he stopped. She never changed her ride though. Her jumping position also looked like it inhibited her horse. The "butterfly relese" would get you shunned in any show ring.

Maybe it works for some, and if so, that's great. For me, I just perfer to train my horse, with understanding, care, and traditional methods. We get along great and I have never had to chase her around waving a orange stick.

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quote:

Originally posted by Barklays my Bay:

I dunno. I just strongly feel a horse should not ever be in your space on the ground. And should always move out of your way.


This goes without saying and is not, in any way shape or form, Parelli. This is good horsemanship and has been around for hundreds of thousands of years, as has good ground manners.

That said, Parelli has his methods of doing ground work, which I do not agree with at all and I don't care for the "carrot" stick, nor do I care for the huge buckle they attach to the worthless rope halters that they use. As someone else stated, he tapped into a money making market and now is literally taking thousands of people for a "ride"

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I think there are certain aspects of NH that I like, and others I completely disagree with. What we have to remember is horses are individuals, what works for one horse might not work for the next. Just as we have our own training preferences, our horses do to.

I personally have never done NH as I find what I do works. What I do is not not NH, I think the name itself fools people into thinking it’s better because it is “natural”. I find a lot of NH to be common sense. I also find it funny how people will buy all these sticks and halters etc. just to make it more “natural”. If you think about it, what we are doing is unnatural. I think we just need an umbrella and call it “horsemanship”.

So do I use it? Common sense, sure. I don’t, however, call what I do anything other than creating a trusting relationship with my horse, so that we can accomplish a safe and secure situation. (So, no PNH for me, or anything of that sort, just horsemanship)

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I do dressage with my moms arabian and let me tell you, parelli and Natural horsemanship helps a LOT! I'm just staring L2 with my mare and it's awesome! I know everyone has an opinion on NH, and i respect that. I must say though, you guys handle this topic MUCH MUCH MUCH better that it would in the training section ( no offense to anybody or anything, but it's true!) Anyhow, I love natural horsemanship, and it helps my horses, so that's all that matters to me! Everyone is different, so, some might love it, some might not. I think whatever makes you and your horse happy and what is humane and safe is what really counts!

~KW [smiley Wavey]

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