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Great_Whitey

Wow *Video*

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I have honestly never seen a horse have this much fun in dressage or during a freestyle...I waited like an hour for this video and it was worth it...This mare is definitely getting into it, the music was a great selection, definitely made for her!

Andreas Helgstrand and Blue Hors Matine(9 yo Danish Warmblood mare) at the 2006 WEG.

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[big Grin] That horse has SOOOO much talent and it JUST 9! Just think about how great she will be in a couple years! I love that horse and rider they are absoultey beautiful to whatch! Thanks for posting it! [big Grin]

[ 03-06-2007, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: Canadian Dressage Rider ]

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I bought this DVD just because of that ride! What an amazing horse especially at that age. Really makes you want to start dancing along, they chose a very catchie song for the piaffe and passage.

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An amazing ride. It made my mom, just an admirer of horses want to watch many more Freestyle videos!

It's a shame Anky won. Or I do believe so. In her '06 WEG Freestyle, she looked off, and wasn't in sync with her horse. The first lengthening I believe, as atrocious. She just was bouncing everywhere in the saddle. And it didn't flow as well as Andreas.

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She's one of the best horses I've EVER seen! I was so mad that they didn't win! In my opinion, they were SO much better than Anky! But I'm bitter cause Anky wins everything, and she really doesn't deserve it... Wait, let me correct myself: Anky doesn't win everything, her Fancy horses do. Okay, done being bitter.

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You guys have to remember that Anky did her test meticulously. While it may not have had the brilliance of Andreas Helgstrands test, it was more accurate. Accuracy and correctness should win over brilliance. He didn't perform an accurate test, and therefore he shouldn't have won. He did deserve the good second though, and I have never seen a horse try that hard.

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quote:

Originally posted by dressagewannabe:

You guys have to remember that Anky did her test meticulously. While it may not have had the brilliance of Andreas Helgstrands test, it was more accurate. Accuracy and correctness
should
win over brilliance. He didn't perform an accurate test, and therefore he shouldn't have won. He did deserve the good second though, and I have never seen a horse try that hard.

In my opinion, Anky is not that great of a rider, she just has fancy horses and a country that will back her because of said horses. Yes, accuracy should win over brilliance in a NORMAL test, but in a freestyle it doesn't matter as much, seeing as the only thing telling the judge where you're not accurate is your music. I rode a rather brilliant (though highly unaccruate to what we had coreagraphed) freestyle and still managed almost a 64% from our local freestyle QUEEN. Yes, Anky rides very accruate tests, but Andreas's WAS more brilliant and in a freestyle, brilliance deserves to win over accuracy.

I'm not here to start a fight, I'm just stating my opinion, so don't take this personally. I'm not an expert, I'm just very observant (and very opinionated).

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quote:

Originally posted by SpotsAtX:

and in a freestyle, brilliance deserves to win over accuracy.

Okay. Situation.

Plain Jane the QH doing a musical freestyle VS Scintillating the Dutch Warmblood doing a m freestyle.

Both riders have obviously put work into choreographing their tests, strides match music and beats, the test is to the point.

Plain Jane is a decent looking QH mare, sorta long backed but a balanced mover. Based on the name, she's nothing fancy but still correct.

Scintillating is a gorgeous DW gelding, BRILLIANT gaits, working off his hind end, has schwung going on, and again his name is based on him-Just breathtaking.

The warmblood pair has pretty gaits and all, but some things in the test are not accurate...a couple boo-boos.

Plain Jane pair is precise and to the point with all the movements, but just doens't have that 'wow' factor, although obviously giving her all despite conformation. The ride is correct. Nice ride overall, but yeah...Not a WOW ride.

Correct VS brilliance? What's your view in this situation?

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quote:

Originally posted by SpotsAtX:

In my opinion, Anky is not that great of a rider, she just has fancy horses and a country that will back her because of said horses. [/QB]

Have you ever ridden her horses? Sat down and talked to her about the ride she's giving them?

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Oh goodness Emily, stop your Anky bashing. Its not worth it. If you must bash her, do it to me, on AIM, where I will ignore you.

I'm not even going to take a stance on this one

And I LOVE that video. I watch it all the time.

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Answer to the situation:

In a musical freestyle situation, the Warmblood should (and in most cases: would) win. When you bring that situation into normal tests, your warmblood will still win even if they don't deserve it. My trainer and I have had this conversation several times, seeing as I have to ride the perfectly accurate test to score as well as the warmbloods who will mess up but have the gaits to score the 7+ scores.

To put it in perspective for people who may not know: Anything up to a 6 in dressage is how accurately you ride the movement. 7 and up is how briliantly it was done. So a warmblood can get a 7 on just cantering down the rail because his gaits are oh my gosh amazing, whereas my Appaloosa who is a SEVEN mover on a GOOD DAY with all his shoes, can only get 7's and higher on things like Transitions, not even circles. Is this fair? No. But this is the way it is.

In a regular test, Brilliance and Accuracy will score the same if you have one but not the other, but if you have Both, you'll be scoring in the high 70's at the bare MINIMUM. I'm not bitter about Anky and her horses because I have an Appaloosa, really, I'm not. For those of you who don't believe what I mean about her horses are fancy: Go watch her Grand Prix A/B/Special tests. They're not NEARLY as accurate, but they're just accruate enough that with the brilliance of her horse she can score well.

For any of you that would like an example of a 6 or 7 mover that needs to be just as accurate to score well, watch the USDF On The Levels. The horse doing 4th level test 4. He's a 7 mover. I know this horse personally. He's also a Grand Prix horse. Yes, this test was not his most accurate or his best (seeing as he was bored and not understanding why they were only doing 4th level), but he scores just as well as they fancier horses who don't ride as accurate of tests, because he's still rather accurate.

Okay, I'm done ranting, seeing as I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore. [Confused]

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These rides are been much discussed by the experts for the same reasons mentioned here. There is somewhat of a "halo" effect with the top riders. This means the judges have a preconvieved idea of who will most likely put in the best ride and win (one reason ice skating judging was changed). But in the end, it is really just a matter of not necessarily better, just different. And dressage judging is subjective, not objective. It's just someone opinion.

As everyone is entitled to their opinion, and as much as I dislike some of Stef and Anky's training techniques (and too think some of her wins have been a gift), to say Anky isn't that good a rider is just kind of silly. But as always, that is JMHO.

[ 03-15-2007, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: lightness ]

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Er, I'd love to see you ride any of Anky's horses. They are not easy rides (I know someone who knows her and has ridden one of them [big Grin] ).

As for this mare, I absolutely ADORE her! She is amazing. She also reminds me of Ocean [Razz]

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"In a musical freestyle situation, the Warmblood should (and in most cases: would) win."

This isn't correct, and you prove it by contradicting your points in your post.

You are right about if a warmblood just canters down the long side of an arena, he's probably going to get the better score.

That doesn't mean he 'should' get the score. Sure, he 'did' get the score, but 'should' he?

Not always the case of course, but all too often it happens.

lightness is right about'And dressage judging is subjective, not objective. It's just someone opinion." and something else that was said that I forgot...It is, but there is a certain point from opinions and biased.

My little 14.2 Quarab and I were trying to qualify for Regionals last year(Just training level). My grandma pretty much just popped the idea up as the entries to the last qualifying show were closing, but we were ready. Unfortunately, this show was a more well known show, everyone and their dam were there. If I remember correctly, except for the warmbloods, there was one quarab(Us), a NSH, 3 Arabs, and 4 Thoroughbreds. And we're talking about a two day show with a little more than 100 entries each day.

The first day, our classes were early in the morning, we had the first rides in our class, and did well. It was our better test, she was more alive and we ended up with like a 65%. Placed like 8th?

2nd day, 2nd to the last ride of the day. Last class of the day for the show too. Wasn't a *bad* ride, but certainly could have done better. Apparently the judge thought nothing of us, because free walk was aswesome and the mare was working off her back end in the canter...Normally we get 8's on our free walk. Got a 6 on the free walk and don't remember the canter. Score was like a 60, that,s what, 1 point short? The last horse of the day was a Warmblood that was all over the place, free walk, there was no stretch, broke to trot through canter, and managed to get a 67.

I compared my 1st ride of the weekend to that, and was a little appalled.

Correctness, and accuracy should come before brilliance, especially in the lower levels, if there's brilliance that's great...

So, yes, a lot of times they "do" get the score, but do they truly deserve it?

Not saying this is the case with all warmbloods, I like them, beautiful horses, brilliant gaits(like we've been saying), etc etc, but sometimes...

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Okay, to clairfy: When I say that Anky isn't "that good of a rider", I mean it in the sense that she doesn't deserve to win every International Competition she walks into. She has to have something in order to GET to said competitions, so she must be a good rider, she's just not-- well.. I know what I mean.

WBduet - I don't doubt that her horses are not easy rides, but just because a horse is fancy doesn't mean it's easy.

As for the "situation", my answer was only contradicting because the situation was not exactly what we were talking about. If the Quater Horse has the brilliant test, and the Fany Warmblood had the less brilliant but more accurate one, the QH would deserve to win. In the situation, you put the brilliant test with the Warmblood, which means the Warmblood would/should win.

In your true example, I can pretty much gaurentee you that the judge you were showing under was breed descriminating. It doesn't happen as much with Quarter Horses, ARabs, Thoroughbreds, etc. You see it more with colored breeds, or, more specifically, Appaloosas. It is rather unseen in this day and time, but you do still see it, and you do still see it with breeds that are anything BUT warmblood. This was probably the judge and did not truly reflect either test in any way, so this is not a fair example.

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