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ExtraHannah

OK Guys - Educate Me! Long.....

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First let me say that I both talk and type too much, so sorry this will be so long, I just want to get most everything in. Everyone at HC has been so helpfull already, I'm hoping to get a little more!

I know I've "met" some of the people that are here on the Western Board in the General, but here's a quick run down. I've been riding for 25+ years, but all of my formal training has been in hunters and bit of dressage. I did have a few years where I had my horses at home and had a wonderful retired barrel app, who I trail rode western and adored, but that's the extent of my western experience.

I now have a really cool, Paint/Trekehner cross, who seems to mostly take after the Paint side! I always like learning new things and just don't know anything about western riding and showing. I have been riding him hunter and that was the way he was trained. He's still fairly green and very out of shape at the moment, due to darn life disasters getting in the way for awhile. However, I would like to be able to trail ride him western and maybe even someday show him both hunter and in a western discipline? ANYWAY, I have just changed barns due to distance and this new facility is mostly western. I believe they mostly show at AQHA and Paint shows. I feel like a complete idiot and out of my element, since I know so little. I mean I was surprised that all of their show horses have pulled mane's - I thought that was only english horses. Everyone out there is helpful, and I'm sure will teach me, but I would like to go in with a "little" knowledge of at least what to ask.

I really like the trainer out there and after watching him work several horses kindly, but effectively, have arranged for him to put at least 60 days training, starting on Monday, on Gulliver. I asked that he just get to be more consistent in his canter leads, to continue learning that all leg doesn't mean go faster, become a better trail horse and a few other things. We'll get more specific as he gets into training. I want him to be able to go nicely in the ring and on the trail. I will also eventually take some western lessons out there for myself.

So FINALLY, to a few questions. What's with the manes? Are there decent quality western shows that aren't breed specific? He obviously doesn't have papers Are there non-speed events, other than western pleasure? I guess from my years with hunters, I really don't like the super slow, very low kind of deal. No insult meant to those of you who do it - just not my thing. Can he be trained western and maybe even show and still carry his poll above the withers a bit? How far along is a western horse before you teach neck reining? Do you think he can go back and forth between hunters and western? Can anyone suggest good magazine/books I should read? What questions should I ask the trainer and what do ya'll think I should know? I have pics of him I can post if that would be helpful. Basically, HELP me not feel like an idiot please! Thanks so very much and again I'm sorry it was so long.

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First let me say that I both talk and type too much, so sorry this will be so long, I just want to get most everything in. Everyone at HC has been so helpfull already, I'm hoping to get a little more!

I know I've "met" some of the people that are here on the Western Board in the General, but here's a quick run down. I've been riding for 25+ years, but all of my formal training has been in hunters and bit of dressage. I did have a few years where I had my horses at home and had a wonderful retired barrel app, who I trail rode western and adored, but that's the extent of my western experience.

I now have a really cool, Paint/Trekehner cross, who seems to mostly take after the Paint side! I always like learning new things and just don't know anything about western riding and showing. I have been riding him hunter and that was the way he was trained. He's still fairly green and very out of shape at the moment, due to darn life disasters getting in the way for awhile. However, I would like to be able to trail ride him western and maybe even someday show him both hunter and in a western discipline? ANYWAY, I have just changed barns due to distance and this new facility is mostly western. I believe they mostly show at AQHA and Paint shows. I feel like a complete idiot and out of my element, since I know so little. I mean I was surprised that all of their show horses have pulled mane's - I thought that was only english horses. Everyone out there is helpful, and I'm sure will teach me, but I would like to go in with a "little" knowledge of at least what to ask.

I really like the trainer out there and after watching him work several horses kindly, but effectively, have arranged for him to put at least 60 days training, starting on Monday, on Gulliver. I asked that he just get to be more consistent in his canter leads, to continue learning that all leg doesn't mean go faster, become a better trail horse and a few other things. We'll get more specific as he gets into training. I want him to be able to go nicely in the ring and on the trail. I will also eventually take some western lessons out there for myself.

So FINALLY, to a few questions. What's with the manes? Are there decent quality western shows that aren't breed specific? He obviously doesn't have papers Are there non-speed events, other than western pleasure? I guess from my years with hunters, I really don't like the super slow, very low kind of deal. No insult meant to those of you who do it - just not my thing. Can he be trained western and maybe even show and still carry his poll above the withers a bit? How far along is a western horse before you teach neck reining? Do you think he can go back and forth between hunters and western? Can anyone suggest good magazine/books I should read? What questions should I ask the trainer and what do ya'll think I should know? I have pics of him I can post if that would be helpful. Basically, HELP me not feel like an idiot please! Thanks so very much and again I'm sorry it was so long.

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"JMO" Try Going to some Western Shows! I found that to be very helpfull.

Type Western Pleasure in yahoo.com or msn.com.

One other non-speed event is Halter and that is very fun to get you started in Western.

Try getting some leesons at a stables with one of there western plaesure horses.

A lot of horses can go back and forth between different disciplines(sp)

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"JMO" Try Going to some Western Shows! I found that to be very helpfull.

Type Western Pleasure in yahoo.com or msn.com.

One other non-speed event is Halter and that is very fun to get you started in Western.

Try getting some leesons at a stables with one of there western plaesure horses.

A lot of horses can go back and forth between different disciplines(sp)

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Sounds like you might enjoy reining.

You can start at the "green as grass" level at local club shows, which are not breed specific, it doesn't matter if your horse is registered or not.

You go a little faster than in Pleasure, and your horse's head doesn't need to be down below his knees. (no offense intended to pleasure people).

Reiners have nice long manes, too! [smile]

With your background in hunters/dressage, you will probably like the pattern-specific maneuvers and precision you must have for reining.

As far as Western horse showing goes, there is more than just Pleasure and Halter. There is Trail, and Western Riding, which is an equitation type class where you do lead changes and patterns, weave in and out of cones, etc, although you do it very very slow with a western pleasure type horse.

There are also things like Ranch Horse Versatility and Penning, Working Cowhorse and Cutting.

Have fun!

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Sounds like you might enjoy reining.

You can start at the "green as grass" level at local club shows, which are not breed specific, it doesn't matter if your horse is registered or not.

You go a little faster than in Pleasure, and your horse's head doesn't need to be down below his knees. (no offense intended to pleasure people).

Reiners have nice long manes, too! [smile]

With your background in hunters/dressage, you will probably like the pattern-specific maneuvers and precision you must have for reining.

As far as Western horse showing goes, there is more than just Pleasure and Halter. There is Trail, and Western Riding, which is an equitation type class where you do lead changes and patterns, weave in and out of cones, etc, although you do it very very slow with a western pleasure type horse.

There are also things like Ranch Horse Versatility and Penning, Working Cowhorse and Cutting.

Have fun!

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Cool cutter123, and thanks for the reply! I'll check it out! I've actually seen some of the reining at Arab shows and really thought it was neat. You're right - that might be fun and I'm certainly used to patterns!!

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Cool cutter123, and thanks for the reply! I'll check it out! I've actually seen some of the reining at Arab shows and really thought it was neat. You're right - that might be fun and I'm certainly used to patterns!!

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quote:

Originally posted by ExtraHannah:

So FINALLY, to a few questions. What's with the manes? Are there decent quality western shows that aren't breed specific? He obviously doesn't have papers Are there non-speed events, other than western pleasure? I guess from my years with hunters, I really don't like the super slow, very low kind of deal. No insult meant to those of you who do it - just not my thing. Can he be trained western and maybe even show and still carry his poll above the withers a bit? How far along is a western horse before you teach neck reining? Do you think he can go back and forth between hunters and western? Can anyone suggest good magazine/books I should read? What questions should I ask the trainer and what do ya'll think I should know? I have pics of him I can post if that would be helpful. Basically, HELP me not feel like an idiot please! Thanks so very much and again I'm sorry it was so long.

Western show horses that are non-reiners, cutters, or cow horses, have short pulled manes. They band them but don't braid. It's not mandatory, just one of those things that everyone does.

The quality of open shows vary GREATLY. There is one series near me that is as difficult as any breed show out there. And others that are so small and relaxed that they can barely be called shows. Check out your local area, the folks at your barn can help point you to the shows.

There are plenty of non-pleasure events to choose from. Some shows may have all of these classes, others may have just some of them. There are several in hand classes - halter, showmanship, grooming & conditioning, and color. Sounds like your guy may do good in color! Halter is judged on your horse's conformation. Showmanship is judged on you, the horse is a prop but will still need to be very well trained. Generally you'll perform a pattern that can include a number of different manuevers including walking and trotting straight lines, serpentines, or circles; stopping; pivots (from 90 to 450 degrees, though lately I've seen some that require two complete 360s); backing; and all kinds of combinations. Grooming and conditioning is just that, how well your horse is groomed and how good of condition he is in - basically you can think of this class as the "white glove" test. [smile]

For riding classes, you have pleasure and horsemanship - pleasure judged on the horse's way of going, horsemanship will have a pattern and is judged on your execution of the pattern and your overall equitation. Then there is western riding (NOT an equitation class, it's judged on the horse's way of going with lead changes - 90% of the class is at the lope. You do a pattern with an average of 10 or so flying lead changes). Then there's trail - this may be something that you will like. An obstacle course on horse back, consisting of 5-10 obstables, anything from walking/jogging/loping over poles in any number of different designs, back throughs, sidepasses, opening/closing of gates, mailboxes, rain slickers, carrying a bucket, bridges, even water boxes. Fun class.

Those are the classes you'll normally find - though I rarely see western riding offered at open shows.

Then there's reining. Sliding stops, spins, lead changes, circles large and small, backing. At the upper levels it's super competitive but there is plenty of room at the green or novice level. Some shows offer it, or you can go to NRHA shows like cutter mentioned.

You may want to go to http://www.aqha.com , then click on showing (on the left menu) then under Resources on the top menu a drop down list will appear - click on AQHA Handbook. It will give you the rules per AQHA which will be very helpful to you. Most (not all, but most) open shows use AQHA rules.

Good luck! And welcome to the wonderful world of western!

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quote:

Originally posted by ExtraHannah:

So FINALLY, to a few questions. What's with the manes? Are there decent quality western shows that aren't breed specific? He obviously doesn't have papers Are there non-speed events, other than western pleasure? I guess from my years with hunters, I really don't like the super slow, very low kind of deal. No insult meant to those of you who do it - just not my thing. Can he be trained western and maybe even show and still carry his poll above the withers a bit? How far along is a western horse before you teach neck reining? Do you think he can go back and forth between hunters and western? Can anyone suggest good magazine/books I should read? What questions should I ask the trainer and what do ya'll think I should know? I have pics of him I can post if that would be helpful. Basically, HELP me not feel like an idiot please! Thanks so very much and again I'm sorry it was so long.

Western show horses that are non-reiners, cutters, or cow horses, have short pulled manes. They band them but don't braid. It's not mandatory, just one of those things that everyone does.

The quality of open shows vary GREATLY. There is one series near me that is as difficult as any breed show out there. And others that are so small and relaxed that they can barely be called shows. Check out your local area, the folks at your barn can help point you to the shows.

There are plenty of non-pleasure events to choose from. Some shows may have all of these classes, others may have just some of them. There are several in hand classes - halter, showmanship, grooming & conditioning, and color. Sounds like your guy may do good in color! Halter is judged on your horse's conformation. Showmanship is judged on you, the horse is a prop but will still need to be very well trained. Generally you'll perform a pattern that can include a number of different manuevers including walking and trotting straight lines, serpentines, or circles; stopping; pivots (from 90 to 450 degrees, though lately I've seen some that require two complete 360s); backing; and all kinds of combinations. Grooming and conditioning is just that, how well your horse is groomed and how good of condition he is in - basically you can think of this class as the "white glove" test. [smile]

For riding classes, you have pleasure and horsemanship - pleasure judged on the horse's way of going, horsemanship will have a pattern and is judged on your execution of the pattern and your overall equitation. Then there is western riding (NOT an equitation class, it's judged on the horse's way of going with lead changes - 90% of the class is at the lope. You do a pattern with an average of 10 or so flying lead changes). Then there's trail - this may be something that you will like. An obstacle course on horse back, consisting of 5-10 obstables, anything from walking/jogging/loping over poles in any number of different designs, back throughs, sidepasses, opening/closing of gates, mailboxes, rain slickers, carrying a bucket, bridges, even water boxes. Fun class.

Those are the classes you'll normally find - though I rarely see western riding offered at open shows.

Then there's reining. Sliding stops, spins, lead changes, circles large and small, backing. At the upper levels it's super competitive but there is plenty of room at the green or novice level. Some shows offer it, or you can go to NRHA shows like cutter mentioned.

You may want to go to http://www.aqha.com , then click on showing (on the left menu) then under Resources on the top menu a drop down list will appear - click on AQHA Handbook. It will give you the rules per AQHA which will be very helpful to you. Most (not all, but most) open shows use AQHA rules.

Good luck! And welcome to the wonderful world of western!

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WOW Debbie - thank you so much for taking the time to type all that out for me! I've just printed it out so I can read over it 15 or 20 times and take everything in [big Grin] ! I will check out the link and I try to get to some shows so I can see what's out there. It's exciting to hear there are so many possibilities! I certainly like Gulliver's color and think it's flashy and that would be a fun class. Of course, anything that's not bay, chestnut or grey is novel to me! He does have a nasty scar down his off front cannon bone from going through a fence as a yearling. I figured that would keep him out of any halter kind of classes, but would it affect color or grooming and conditioning? Here's a pic that shows his markings pretty well, though he's actually brighter - it was foggy:

-

Thanks again!

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WOW Debbie - thank you so much for taking the time to type all that out for me! I've just printed it out so I can read over it 15 or 20 times and take everything in [big Grin] ! I will check out the link and I try to get to some shows so I can see what's out there. It's exciting to hear there are so many possibilities! I certainly like Gulliver's color and think it's flashy and that would be a fun class. Of course, anything that's not bay, chestnut or grey is novel to me! He does have a nasty scar down his off front cannon bone from going through a fence as a yearling. I figured that would keep him out of any halter kind of classes, but would it affect color or grooming and conditioning? Here's a pic that shows his markings pretty well, though he's actually brighter - it was foggy:

-

Thanks again!

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He's gorgeous! Showing western isn't necessarily about having a pulled mane and going slow, as they've already pointed out. There are tons of different things to do from pleasure to mounted shooting to cutting, there's something for everybody really. Western riding may be something good to look into, it's very methodical and a little faster than the pleasure classes. I used to show pleasure and to me it gets old quickly. Some people love it, but it would certainly be slower than the english you're used to.

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He's gorgeous! Showing western isn't necessarily about having a pulled mane and going slow, as they've already pointed out. There are tons of different things to do from pleasure to mounted shooting to cutting, there's something for everybody really. Western riding may be something good to look into, it's very methodical and a little faster than the pleasure classes. I used to show pleasure and to me it gets old quickly. Some people love it, but it would certainly be slower than the english you're used to.

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Thanks Painted.Cowgirl - I will look into the western riding - as well as all the other fun things that have been listed! And thanks for the compliment on my boy! I had gotten kind of bored with my hunter stuff and it's really exciting to be looking at getting out on the trails again, as well as even thinking about future showing! I know we would never get to the really high end shows, but I enjoy a little competition that's fun and not too full of pressure. I've posted these once before on another thread, but thought I would stick up few more pics. Sorry if ya'll have already seen them. These are more recent and he's fat and out of shape in them. We're making progress there, but it's slow. Once with the trainer, it will hopefully speed up the losing weight and gaining of muscle.

Here's a shot of his other side:

-

And the big ol' butt:

-

And the chest:

-

Would love to see pics of your horses and what you do with them. Either just pics and say tell me it's a WP horse or pics of them actually in action doing things. Trying to learn about what kind of confo works best for what disciplines. Plus, I just love seeing pictures! [big Grin]

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Thanks Painted.Cowgirl - I will look into the western riding - as well as all the other fun things that have been listed! And thanks for the compliment on my boy! I had gotten kind of bored with my hunter stuff and it's really exciting to be looking at getting out on the trails again, as well as even thinking about future showing! I know we would never get to the really high end shows, but I enjoy a little competition that's fun and not too full of pressure. I've posted these once before on another thread, but thought I would stick up few more pics. Sorry if ya'll have already seen them. These are more recent and he's fat and out of shape in them. We're making progress there, but it's slow. Once with the trainer, it will hopefully speed up the losing weight and gaining of muscle.

Here's a shot of his other side:

-

And the big ol' butt:

-

And the chest:

-

Would love to see pics of your horses and what you do with them. Either just pics and say tell me it's a WP horse or pics of them actually in action doing things. Trying to learn about what kind of confo works best for what disciplines. Plus, I just love seeing pictures! [big Grin]

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Here's a couple of my boy. His registered name is Justa Buck O Lena. He's a grandson of Mr San Peppy, which gives him great bloodlines for cutting and such. He's only four so he'll fill out a bit more as he matures. He's around 14.2-14.3. The cow horses at the barn are all fairly short and in his size range. Sorry they're so big!!

-

-

And here's a couple of my paint. His registered name is Jos Super King. He's done well at WP and western riding, but we never tried any really big shows. He likes english a lot better so we stuck with a lot of all around showing. He's 15.2hh.

- A really old WP picture. He was just learning.

-

A close up. That may give you an idea about how he's built, but I know it's not much help. That's from when he hurt his leg. (notice the bandage in the back)

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Here's a couple of my boy. His registered name is Justa Buck O Lena. He's a grandson of Mr San Peppy, which gives him great bloodlines for cutting and such. He's only four so he'll fill out a bit more as he matures. He's around 14.2-14.3. The cow horses at the barn are all fairly short and in his size range. Sorry they're so big!!

-

-

And here's a couple of my paint. His registered name is Jos Super King. He's done well at WP and western riding, but we never tried any really big shows. He likes english a lot better so we stuck with a lot of all around showing. He's 15.2hh.

- A really old WP picture. He was just learning.

-

A close up. That may give you an idea about how he's built, but I know it's not much help. That's from when he hurt his leg. (notice the bandage in the back)

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Thanks painted.cowgirl - handsome guys! Just wanted to give an update that Gulliver was worked for the first time yesterday by his new trainer and did great! I was proud of him and really pleased with the trainer. Gully's only ever had a western saddle on once before, but he acted like an old hand. He is working him in an Argentine "snaffle" (OK, I know it's not a real snaffle due to the shanks - I'm trying to learn more about bits too). I've always ridden him in some sort of regular snaffle and had settled on a quality french link, but he honestly seemed happier in the Argentine then anything I've used. Course that could be because the trainer has better hands than I do, but it's one of the few things I'm fairly confident in - I've always been told I have really good hands. Do you guys like the Argentine for changing from a snaffle? ANYWAY, just wanted to say thanks again for the tips and brag on my boy. It was so fun to get to see a good rider on him and how well he went. He still has a lot of learning to do, but it was a great start! I think he looks really good as a western horse, too!

[ 08-09-2005, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: ExtraHannah ]

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Thanks painted.cowgirl - handsome guys! Just wanted to give an update that Gulliver was worked for the first time yesterday by his new trainer and did great! I was proud of him and really pleased with the trainer. Gully's only ever had a western saddle on once before, but he acted like an old hand. He is working him in an Argentine "snaffle" (OK, I know it's not a real snaffle due to the shanks - I'm trying to learn more about bits too). I've always ridden him in some sort of regular snaffle and had settled on a quality french link, but he honestly seemed happier in the Argentine then anything I've used. Course that could be because the trainer has better hands than I do, but it's one of the few things I'm fairly confident in - I've always been told I have really good hands. Do you guys like the Argentine for changing from a snaffle? ANYWAY, just wanted to say thanks again for the tips and brag on my boy. It was so fun to get to see a good rider on him and how well he went. He still has a lot of learning to do, but it was a great start! I think he looks really good as a western horse, too!

[ 08-09-2005, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: ExtraHannah ]

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Nice photos, everyone! Gulliver is a good looking boy! Nice hip on him, very balanced. He should have the athleticism to do whatever you want to do with him.

Here is my pony, Little Purples Gem, by Smart Little Pistol (Smart Little Lena x Miss Silver Pistol) out of Gems Miss Heleo (by Doc Bar Gem). She's 14.1h, five years old. --

Us working. Not the best photo. I just started showing her and will have more photos first.

--

[ 08-09-2005, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: cutter123 ]

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Nice photos, everyone! Gulliver is a good looking boy! Nice hip on him, very balanced. He should have the athleticism to do whatever you want to do with him.

Here is my pony, Little Purples Gem, by Smart Little Pistol (Smart Little Lena x Miss Silver Pistol) out of Gems Miss Heleo (by Doc Bar Gem). She's 14.1h, five years old. --

Us working. Not the best photo. I just started showing her and will have more photos first.

--

[ 08-09-2005, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: cutter123 ]

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Paintedcowgirl, does your Mr. San Peppy buck?? (snort! [big Grin] )

I know, I"m just funnin; I figure someone was a buckskin and that explains the name? I just know a lot of those Peppy horses have a litle bronc in them. We have a Little Peppy who humps up every time you get on! And a Mr. San Peppy that will sure as heck make you pay attention. They are both really good cutting horses, though. [Yay]

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Paintedcowgirl, does your Mr. San Peppy buck?? (snort! [big Grin] )

I know, I"m just funnin; I figure someone was a buckskin and that explains the name? I just know a lot of those Peppy horses have a litle bronc in them. We have a Little Peppy who humps up every time you get on! And a Mr. San Peppy that will sure as heck make you pay attention. They are both really good cutting horses, though. [Yay]

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OHHHH! She's lovely cutter123!! Those shots were great to see how she's built and how she uses it. From what I've read, the cutting horses are usually in the 14 - 14.2 hand range? Is that accurate? I'm guessing having less to move around makes them quicker? After years of big old warmbloods and TB's, I've always thought of Gulliver as short at 15.1 [big Grin] . Learning all this is so fun and HC people have been awesome! I'm really learning to appreciate all different types of horses in a way I never had before. Sigh...I was so underexposed.

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OHHHH! She's lovely cutter123!! Those shots were great to see how she's built and how she uses it. From what I've read, the cutting horses are usually in the 14 - 14.2 hand range? Is that accurate? I'm guessing having less to move around makes them quicker? After years of big old warmbloods and TB's, I've always thought of Gulliver as short at 15.1 [big Grin] . Learning all this is so fun and HC people have been awesome! I'm really learning to appreciate all different types of horses in a way I never had before. Sigh...I was so underexposed.

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?What's with the manes??

Stock horses show in banded manes and have their manes pulled so they lie flat in bands. I don?t have a picture of a banded mane, but maybe someone else does?

?Are there decent quality western shows that aren't breed specific??

Depending on where you are at, there are a lot of open shows out there that are competitive but don?t have breed restrictions.

?Are there non-speed events, other than western pleasure??

Western horsemanship and western riding are two non-speed events. Horsemanship is judged on your riding. Depending on the judge and the show circuit, horsemanship may have a pattern or may be judged on rail work.

Western riding is a pattern class consisting of lead changes, pattern, etc. I don?t do western riding at this time so I honestly don?t know as much about it. 

Some shows also have bareback pleasure.

?Do you think he can go back and forth between hunters and western??

Yes!

?Can anyone suggest good magazine/books I should read??

Try Horse & Rider.

Btw, he?s really pretty.. [smile]

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?What's with the manes??

Stock horses show in banded manes and have their manes pulled so they lie flat in bands. I don?t have a picture of a banded mane, but maybe someone else does?

?Are there decent quality western shows that aren't breed specific??

Depending on where you are at, there are a lot of open shows out there that are competitive but don?t have breed restrictions.

?Are there non-speed events, other than western pleasure??

Western horsemanship and western riding are two non-speed events. Horsemanship is judged on your riding. Depending on the judge and the show circuit, horsemanship may have a pattern or may be judged on rail work.

Western riding is a pattern class consisting of lead changes, pattern, etc. I don?t do western riding at this time so I honestly don?t know as much about it. 

Some shows also have bareback pleasure.

?Do you think he can go back and forth between hunters and western??

Yes!

?Can anyone suggest good magazine/books I should read??

Try Horse & Rider.

Btw, he?s really pretty.. [smile]

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