Sign in to follow this  
equicrzy

White German Shepherds.....AKC Registered?

Recommended Posts

Not sure this is even a debatable topic....but here goes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't White Shepherds white, due to a genetic defect?

I keep seeing ads for, "Registered, rare white German Shepherds", and it makes me cringe every time.

Sure they're 'rare', the defect doesn't occur very often, and from what I know, the AKC doesn't even recognize them as a breed, much less register them.

Am I right? Does anyone else know anything more about White German Shepherds, and registration?

[ 01-02-2008, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: equicrzy ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

White coloration is not a genetic defect. It is a recessive gene that masks a regular GSD color pattern. White shepherd dogs helped found the breed. They are allowed to be registered by AKC, but cannot be shown in conformation (they can still show in other AKC events). They were allowed to show in conformation until about 30 years ago when the AKC and GSDCA changed the rulings to make white coloration a disqualification. Diluted colors (blues/livers) can be shown in conformation but carry serious faults if I remember right.

[ 01-02-2008, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: sddeadeye ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a vet that told me it was a defect, same as with a white Boxer, and neither one could be registered.

I knew a lady that bred Boxers, and every once in a while she would get a white one, and would either sell it real cheap, or give it away, because it couldn't be registered, and I was told it was the same with a white German Shepherd.

So, the white ones don't have the same conformation as the black/tan ones, and that is why they can't compete in the confo classes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by sddeadeye:

White coloration is not a genetic defect. It is a recessive gene that masks a regular GSD color pattern. White shepherd dogs helped found the breed. They are allowed to be registered by AKC, but cannot be shown in conformation (they can still show in other AKC events). They were allowed to show in conformation until about 30 years ago when the AKC and GSDCA changed the rulings to make white coloration a disqualification. Diluted colors (blues/livers) can be shown in conformation but carry serious faults if I remember right.

Blues and Livers CAN'T be shown. One of the disqualifications is "Dogs that don't have a black nose." Blues and Livers don't have black noses.

To the origional poster, whites are not "rare". They ARE undesireable to TRUE German Shepherd people.(Especially in Germany.) That is the reason there aren't as many of them as the other "desireable" colors. Same can be said of the black and silvers and the black and creams.

The folks that LIKE the whites have formed their own breed club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The white dogs can't be shown in conformation because one of the disqualifications in the conformation ring is "White dogs".

White isn't a genetic defect in German Shepherds, it is just a color. But it is an UNDESIREABLE color. And as such, is not allowed in the conformation ring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it comes down to preference.... personally, I prefer the black/tan...don't really care for the white, or all black. Those colors just don't seem like a true Shepherd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If white is considered undesirable by the AKC, why do they allow them to be registered, and possibly bred?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by equicrzy:

It was a vet that told me it was a defect, same as with a white Boxer, and neither one could be registered.


White is undesireable in Boxers too. But that vet is just plain WRONG. Both white GSDs and white boxers ARE AKC registerable.

White Boxers can NOT be shown in conformation either. A Boxer must have less than 1/3 of his coat color as white. With Boxers, deafness is a possibility with all white dogs. But not ALL white ones are deaf. (I have heard that approximately 18% of white Boxers are deaf.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by RacingQH:

Originally posted by sddeadeye:

Blues and Livers CAN'T be shown. One of the disqualifications is "Dogs that don't have a black nose." Blues and Livers don't have black noses.

Thanks for correcting me. I wasn't 100% sure on the blues and livers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by equicrzy:

I guess it comes down to preference.... personally, I prefer the black/tan...don't really care for the white, or all black. Those colors just don't seem like a true Shepherd.

Actually these days,(in Germany) most of the true "working dogs" are not black and tan either. They are solid black, sable or bi-color. (Black with tan markings like a Rottweiler.) As are the dogs that are imported for police work.

The german "show dogs"(conformation) are black and red.

Here is a picture of a male that I had. (I gave him to the Sherrifs Dept to be trained as a drug dog.) He is what is called a "black sable". He was born in America and is AKC registered. But his sire was imported from the Czech Republic and his dam (she was solid black) was imported from Solvakia.

-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by sddeadeye:

quote:

Originally posted by RacingQH:

Originally posted by sddeadeye:

Blues and Livers CAN'T be shown. One of the disqualifications is "Dogs that don't have a black nose." Blues and Livers don't have black noses.

Thanks for correcting me. I wasn't 100% sure on the blues and livers.
No problem. They don't come right out and say "no blues or livers". But the "must have a black nose," keeps the blues and livers OUT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very nice looking dog...I didn't mean I thought anything other than black/tan was ugly, but just what I prefer.

I would have had a hard time giving that guy up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by equicrzy:

Very nice looking dog...I didn't mean I thought anything other than black/tan was ugly, but just what I prefer.

I would have had a hard time giving that guy up.

No problem, I didn't take what you said as anything other than your preference.

Giving him up was a little hard but it is what was best for HIM. (AND my sanity. He was the type of dog that was going "full tilt" 24/7.) He makes Border Collies look lazy.

Here is my current GSD. She will be 10 in May.

(As you can tell I live the "other colors" [Wink] (I have only had 2 that were black and tan. I have had the 1 sable pictured and 3 that were solid black) I have had GSDs since 1978.

-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She's a pretty girl.

I have had Shepherds since 1997, and they have all been black/tan, so that's were the preference thing comes into play.

My newest one, just got him 3 days ago, has some silver on him , too, so I CAN change..hee hee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RacingQH that is a pretty dog. I tend to like the balck ones.It probab;y has to do to the fact the breeder I worked for. The black pups she had were very playful and usually my favs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Learn something new every day! Cool. Beautiful dogs, by the way. [smile]

Question about labs and colors, if anyone knows...there is a "silver" lab color, looks like a weimeraner coloring far as i'm concerned. Is this a 'fad' color and undesirable or a 'rare' color and thus worth more? Reason i'm asking is that i know some folks who are raising "silver" labs and they told me they are rare, desirable and very expensive. I have my doubts. Anyone care to clue me in?

HTTY & GBTUSA

BUMPER

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as I am concerned they are a "fad" color.

Most colors that folks advertise as "rare" are rare for a REASON. Usually that reason is that it is undesireable in that breed. And those that breed for these colors intentionally are only doing it to try to get extra money for the pups. They are NOT trying to "better the breed". They are only trying to "better" their WALLET.

For instance, there are Long Coated German Shepherds. Long coats are undesireable. A GOOD breeder will usually sell the coated puppies cheaper than the "regular" coated ones. Or they will sell for the same price. But NEVER for MORE money.

(It is just another gene in the breed, it is not that they are "defectice" nor are there and extra problems that the dogs are prome to.)

Then you have those that breed coated dogs intentionally and call them "rare" and try to sell them for a bunch of money. [Mad]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the position of the Labrador Retriever Club on "Silver Labs". (The LRC gets to "make the rules" on Labs as far as the AKC standard is concerned.)

Labrador Retriever Club website.

(This is copied and pasted from their site.)

"There is no genetic basis for the silver gene in Labradors. The silver color is a disqualification under the Standard for the breed. The LRC does not recognize, accept or condone the sale or advertising of any Labrador as a silver Labrador. The Club opposes the practice of registering silver as chocolate."

[ 01-02-2008, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: RacingQH ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, look at that, A question I had got answered even though I didn't ask it. Some guy up the road just put up a sign for silver labs and my husband asked me what the h*** those were and I had no clue. Now I know. I'm so tempted to call him and ask about them but... I'm not in the mood to deal with it right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't even know there WAS a 'Silver Lab'.

Just one more way for people to make money from 'designer' dogs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have heard of silver labs before. Unfortunately, I believe it is a fad. The only three acceptable colors for labs are black, yellow, and chocolate. Some people advertise other colors such as white. A white lab is simply a really light yellow lab.

I have been wanting to get a GSD for my next dog and have been doing extensive research into the breed. If I could pick out a color I would like a sable or bicolor as those are my two favorite colors. I do know somebody with a white GSD and her coloring does not appeal to me at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by RacingQH:

Here is the position of the Labrador Retriever Club on "Silver Labs". (The LRC gets to "make the rules" on Labs as far as the AKC standard is concerned.)

(This is copied and pasted from their site.)

"There is no genetic basis for the silver gene in Labradors. The silver color is a disqualification under the Standard for the breed. The LRC does not recognize, accept or condone the sale or advertising of any Labrador as a silver Labrador. The Club opposes the practice of registering silver as chocolate."

That's exactly what i thought. [Wink]

Sad, and they get $1,500 a pup.

HTTY & GBTUSA

BUMPER

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, I didn't know Silver was a bad color, I just met a gal who flew all the way to Dallas from Alaska to buy her "Silver" lab....she paid...do I dare say....$3500 for it.

I breed Dachshunds, but I stick to Reds and Black and Tans, I don't like dapples and I CAN'T STAND pie balds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

quote:

Originally posted by RacingQH:

As far as I am concerned they are a "fad" color.

Most colors that folks advertise as "rare" are rare for a REASON. Usually that reason is that it is undesireable in that breed. And those that breed for these colors intentionally are only doing it to try to get extra money for the pups. They are NOT trying to "better the breed". They are only trying to "better" their WALLET.

For instance, there are Long Coated German Shepherds. Long coats are undesireable. A GOOD breeder will usually sell the coated puppies cheaper than the "regular" coated ones. Or they will sell for the same price. But NEVER for MORE money.

(It is just another gene in the breed, it is not that they are "defectice" nor are there and extra problems that the dogs are prome to.)

Then you have those that breed coated dogs intentionally and call them "rare" and try to sell them for a bunch of money.
[Mad]

Imagine all the vacuuming necessary with a long haired shepherd? [Eek!] And I thought it was bad with my girl...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by equicrzy:

I don't know, maybe it is just a real light shade of Chocolate, and they pass it off as Silver?

Picture the color of a weimeraner and you've got it. My husbad was SURE the pup we saw was half Weimer, but it wasn't.

HTTY & GBTUSA

BUMPER

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by O'Reilly:

quote:

Originally posted by RacingQH:

As far as I am concerned they are a "fad" color.

Most colors that folks advertise as "rare" are rare for a REASON. Usually that reason is that it is undesireable in that breed. And those that breed for these colors intentionally are only doing it to try to get extra money for the pups. They are NOT trying to "better the breed". They are only trying to "better" their WALLET.

For instance, there are Long Coated German Shepherds. Long coats are undesireable. A GOOD breeder will usually sell the coated puppies cheaper than the "regular" coated ones. Or they will sell for the same price. But NEVER for MORE money.

(It is just another gene in the breed, it is not that they are "defectice" nor are there and extra problems that the dogs are prome to.)

Then you have those that breed coated dogs intentionally and call them "rare" and try to sell them for a bunch of money.
[Mad]

Imagine all the vacuuming necessary with a long haired shepherd?
[Eek!]
And I thought it was bad with my girl...

It really isn't that bad. I have had 3 coated dogs and while the hair is LONGER it isn't any thicker and with some of the coats it is longer but not as thick. (The black male that is pictured in the snow had a long coat, but it wasn't as thick as the black female I have now.)

Here are the 3 "coats" I have had. The 2 black males are NOT the same dog. As far as the "rareness" [Roll Eyes] , I paid half as much for the black and tan female as they got for the "regular" coats in the same litter.

The males were the same price as the regular coated ones in their litters.

-

-

-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this