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lilmissme

'Proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free'?

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Hi all,

Been looking at representations of war and of the war in Iraq, and I came across an array of YouTube videos such as this

.

It got me thinking, is America really that free?

So I looked up global rankings of freedom.

On the economic freedom ranking ( here) the USA ranked 5th world wide. However, on the freedom of the press ranking ( here) , it came 48th globally for domestic affairs and 111th for overseas. The UK also did pretty poorly, coming 10th economically and 24th for the press.

So do you think America is truly 'the land of the free'? Do you think it matters if it isn't?

Karen xx

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Free? Right! Lots of nice government regulated freedom! Uncle Sam has his long nose into everything these days. As for the press, they have the freedom to sensationalize just about anything, never mind the facts.

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Having only lived in this country, I enjoy the freedoms we have, but I will admit they are getting more controled al the time. We have become a complacent society, hard to get freedoms back once they are gone. PD

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So ... although we are officially no longer the land of the free or, obviously the home of the brave or the richest nation in the world, we are still the nation with the MOST troops deployed on foreign soil.

We ostracized the Dixie Chicks for saying our president was a 'cowboy' and have tried to derail the Obama campaign because his wife failed to put her hand over her heart during our national anthem.

Wow.

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HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Free? Yeah right! The government controls almost every aspect of our lives. They want us to THINK we are free, because thats less protesting the government, and too much protesting and havoc leads to them having no jobs,

so NO we are not as free as we would like to think. The government is a sneaky little *******. Exuse my french... speaking of France...... I think i'll be moving there after this election, either there or Canada.

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We don't even follow our own Constatution any more...so where is the freedom? The government controls our lives. The government is not even a government as far as I am concerned. Just a bunch of hypocrites doing whatever they want. They can't even hold an election without bickering and pulling up as much dirt on thier oponent as possible. What do I care if someone smoked a bit of pot 30 years ago, or had sex with thier girlfriend in high school...oh my she was underaged! Our forefathers had slaves, mistresses and snuff! Please. We as Americans are fooling ourselves if we think we are actually free. Everything comes with a price.

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Oh don't go getting excited about Canada. We're going to the hot house in a hand basket real fast. It's not as rosey here as some of you think.

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So the thing with freedom.

We trade it in for security.

For instance, real freedom would mean being allowed to do precisely what you want with no repercussions. You could steal a candy bar, if you wanted to.

We don't want our candy bars stolen, so we trade in our freedom to steal candy bars so that nobody else can steal ours, at least not without consequences.

The government is going further than people would like, though. Like the law in California about how you must wear a helmet while riding a bike. Of course the government wants everyone to be safe, but wearing a helmet is a personal choice. You should wear one, but should you really get in trouble if you don't?

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quote:

Originally posted by HolleysRider010:

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Free? Yeah right! The government controls almost every aspect of our lives. They want us to THINK we are free, because thats less protesting the government, and too much protesting and havoc leads to them having no jobs,

so NO we are not as free as we would like to think. The government is a sneaky little *******. Exuse my french... speaking of France...... I think i'll be moving there after this election, either there or Canada.

Have a blast with that! [smiley Wavey]

Hope you don't get sick. [Angel]

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I've considered buying my own planet, but I can't find a moving van big enough to get me there!

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quote:

Originally posted by phurgus:

quote:

Originally posted by HolleysRider010:

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Free? Yeah right! The government controls almost every aspect of our lives. They want us to THINK we are free, because thats less protesting the government, and too much protesting and havoc leads to them having no jobs,

so NO we are not as free as we would like to think. The government is a sneaky little *******. Exuse my french... speaking of France...... I think i'll be moving there after this election, either there or Canada.

Have a blast with that!
[smiley Wavey]

Hope you don't get sick.
[Angel]
why would she get sick?? from canada? or france? or is it just a comment that i am too dumb at this moment to figure out haha

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quote:

Originally posted by Mudder:

Oh don't go getting excited about Canada. We're going to the hot house in a hand basket real fast. It's not as rosey here as some of you think.

I was just kidding [Razz] butt I still like Canada for various reasons (aka. I have a death grip on the door when my dad is driving across the detroit border and on their highways haha) some people DO NO know how to drive. I know it can happen here too... but just saying from MY experience [Razz]

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(Edit: Oh. For one thing, patriotic songs are allowed poetic license. Or patriotic license. I mean, the fact that we've got some of the lowest Army recruitment standards in quite some time shows that it was a pleasant hyperbole on the line about how "I'll gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today". Of course, you could argue that the army isn't doing too terribly much defense lately. That's an entirely different argument, though.)

quote:

Originally posted by ozland:

I've considered buying my own planet, but I can't find a moving van big enough to get me there!

Just get abducted. It's so much easier. Plus, Tralfamadorians are fairly fascinating.

[ 04-13-2008, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: shadow13 ]

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quote:

Originally posted by phurgus:

quote:

Originally posted by HolleysRider010:

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Free? Yeah right! The government controls almost every aspect of our lives. They want us to THINK we are free, because thats less protesting the government, and too much protesting and havoc leads to them having no jobs,

so NO we are not as free as we would like to think. The government is a sneaky little *******. Exuse my french... speaking of France...... I think i'll be moving there after this election, either there or Canada.

Have a blast with that!
[smiley Wavey]

Hope you don't get sick.
[Angel]
I would much rather get sick in France or Canada then the U.S. where you pay out of you pocket for health care and they check to make sure you have the money BEFORE they do anything for you.

Yes Canadians pay higher taxes, but for me it will be worth it in the long run if anything ever happens which require extensive health care.

JMO of course.

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Those countries might not MAKE her sick (but they would me, sorry Mudder). But they won't make her well either.

There is not a single consarned place on this planet that I would rather live. Period.

Y'all can take your socialism and GO SOMEWHERE SOCIALIST.

I am a capitalist sow.

And our press IS free. And we HAVE guns (to defend ourselves from our GOVERNMENT if needed). And you or I or anybody else is welcome to be as industrious or as slovenly as we choose.

Nobody is saying, "you got a 97 on this test, so you will be a doctor. But sorry Billy, you got a 12, so you will be a ditchdigger."

NO NO NO.

We are FREE to pursue LIFE, LIBERTY and PROPERTY (you can call it happiness if you want, but I've read the original.)

And as one of the most conservative members of HC, I would like to let everyone know that I do NOT mind having to buy a $4 water on the other side of security at the airport. Nor do I mind having to check all of my hair products (and I NEED a few), and you know what, they can listen to my phone conversations until they are blue in the face. All they will be is bored.

And I agree fully with PD, that as soon as you give up a freedom, consider it GONE.

But you go ahead and tell me how many planes have flown into large buildings in the past 6 years? How many embassies have been compromised? How many naval vessels have been bombed?

You think THAT is because nobody is attempting anything? I disagree wholeheartedly.

I say keep "them" occupied over in Iraq as long as possible. I would prefer they engage our trained military over there than our civilian population over here. And so would those folks fighting for YOU (even IF you are a pinko commie) and me....

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quote:

Originally posted by Savvy in Canada:

quote:

Originally posted by phurgus:

quote:

Originally posted by HolleysRider010:

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Free? Yeah right! The government controls almost every aspect of our lives. They want us to THINK we are free, because thats less protesting the government, and too much protesting and havoc leads to them having no jobs,

so NO we are not as free as we would like to think. The government is a sneaky little *******. Exuse my french... speaking of France...... I think i'll be moving there after this election, either there or Canada.

Have a blast with that!
[smiley Wavey]

Hope you don't get sick.
[Angel]
I would much rather get sick in France or Canada then the U.S. where you pay out of you pocket for health care and they check to make sure you have the money BEFORE they do anything for you.

Yes Canadians pay higher taxes, but for me it will be worth it in the long run if anything ever happens which require extensive health care.

JMO of course.

Actually, I will make the assumption that you ARE in Canada from your screen name. Stay there, thanks. Our welfare rolls and comped medical are big enough....

eta: FYI, the hospitals her CANNOT refuse treatment, regardless of coverage and/or money. That's a fact jack.

[ 04-13-2008, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: phurgus ]

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We're responsible for the loss of our freedoms. Every time someone feels victimized they run crying to government, which, in turn grows larger and tries to control that aspect of society. Hobbes said it all in Leviathan. The state is a monster of epic proportions, only concerned about its own growth and development. The US gov't is a great example.

That said, I don't know where I would rather live. No state defies that Leviathan principle -- they all restrict freedoms.

Sometimes I actually think we're gaining freedoms, especially when I think about the Japanese internment camps during WWII.

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quote:

Originally posted by lilmissme:

is America really that free?

So I looked up global rankings of freedom.

On the economic freedom ranking (
) the USA ranked 5th world wide. However, on the freedom of the press ranking (
) , it came 48th globally for domestic affairs and 111th for overseas. The UK also did pretty poorly, coming 10th economically and 24th for the press.

So do you think America is truly 'the land of the free'? Do you think it matters if it isn't?


Having lived outside the US, I would say that I tend to see America as free, but only in a very superficial way. Meaning that instead of being openly restricted, or guided, they are manipulated in less obvious ways. The media leads everyone around by their noses. I first started to become really aware of this when I would hear on boards the stuff being fed to the public about France,during the outbreak of the war, which was for the most part, completely false. But strangely enough, supported the governments intents perfectly.

These ratings sound pretty accurate.

The thing is, any society starts out with lots of freedom, and slowly builds itself to having less. That is the normal course of things- structures are made, walls are built, in the physical and metaphorical sense. It's evolution and growth, natural cycles.

I don't think you can avoid the solidification of a society from ever happening.

Either it will have at some point a rising of the feminine energy (the collective, revolution) to balance out the over abundance of masculine expansion, or it will become decrepit and die from the inside. Like Rome. Like cancer.

It is weird for me to be around so many people on the outside, and they all see America as basically pulling it's fate upon itself unknowingly.

Freedom means no limits. What kind of people recognize no limits? What kinds of horses recognize no limits? How do you react to them?

Whether they are being "nice" or "hostile", if they are getting too close to you when they talk, or going into your property and doing things there without your permission, they are invading. They are pushing you to have to strike them backwards!

America has had no limits, and it has spread out into many countries. Is there a country with no McDonalds? With no American movies being shown in their cinema houses? The American culture has spread with the same efficiency as the Romans did. Not necessarily a bad thing in the long run- just not a permanent thing.

It seems hard for me to understand how some people can feel that continuing to spread into others even more, and instead of doing it in a "nice" way, doing it in a hostile way, that they will stop creating resentfulness and aggression from targeting them?

But whatever. The world shall continue to turn. It's all an exciting ride either way. It is true that if you aren't happy with where you are, you can go elsewhere, in a general way.

[ 04-14-2008, 04:02 AM: Message edited by: Bluesma ]

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Freedom is about basic rights not anarchy.

Freedom is about individual responsibility.

Societies have to have laws and a government.

Freedom is a fine line to walk but when laws are made based on mis-information and emotionalism not FACT then we have a major problem. [Wink]

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quote:

posted 04-13-2008 07:41 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like Canada...


Me too Cowgurl! [Wink]

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actually we're not all that free to leave. i've been looking into changing my citizenship to german, and it is not easy from the american side. i think america is a wonderful country, i just don't have a life there anymore, but it is a tricky business trying to explain this to the u.s. government.

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If we could stick to the constitution, we'd be a lot more "free"....one thing I find interesting is that some of you saying that we have such limited freedoms are also the ones vehemently supporting Hillary and Obama. You really think the things they propose grant more freedom?

I want the gov't out of my pocket and out of my life.

quote:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Note: A few terms in our preamble have vastly different meanings now.

Welfare

welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being.ME wel faren, to fare well Source: AHD

Welfare in today's context also means organized efforts on the part of public or private organizations to benefit the poor, or simply public assistance. This is not the meaning of the word as used in the Constitution.

Domestic Tranquility

One of the concerns of the Framers was that the government prior to that under the Constitution was unable, by force or persuasion, to quell rebellion or quarrels amongst the states. The government watched in horror as Shay's Rebellion transpired just before the Convention, and some states had very nearly gone to war with each other over territory (such as between Pennsylvania and Connecticut over Wilkes-Barre). One of the main goals of the Convention, then, was to ensure the federal government had powers to squash rebellion and to smooth tensions between states.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

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I am a proud American and consider myself to be very patriotic. Therefore, I am NOT willing to give up ANY of my freedoms and rights as outlined by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights under any circumstances.

Remember this quote by one of our founding fathers:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

We need to learn from history. Nazi Germany started out slowly when it closed down it's open society. Of course, there were people that felt that their government wouldn't never target them, it only targeted those other people.

H*ll no! My government can not and should not listen in on my phone calls without a warrent, even if I think I am not doing anything wrong. Otherwise, where will it end? What eventually will be considered treason against the government? The way we're headed, they will not have to tell you why you are being arrested nor will they have to give you a fair and speedy trial.

Read up on your history and help save our inalienable rights that our founding fathers and revolutionaries fought and died for.

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