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UsaEqGurl

'Whipping horses mercilessly'

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Do race riders really whip horses mercilessly?

As much as I am against racing (at last), I know there's regulations against heavy use of the whip\crop and that any trainer with sense knows a horse will go rank on overuse of the whip.

If you really study it, it's almost like the jockey is using the stick in rhythm with the stride to urge the horse, reminding it to keep going.

It may sting a little, but no more than when you accidentally snag a rubber band, and that's when I tried hitting MYSELF (lol). Horses also have thicker skin and hair over the shoulder and neck.

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most of the noise you will hear is the crop hitting the saddle pad,and jockeys will fan with the whip instead of hitting.

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A lot of times, all the jock has to do is show the horse the stick. If you watch a race closely, they are in rythim with the horse, and it is not a beating. I would think that the over and unders would sting more than the bats the jock use.

Cols

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"whipping" I think is a term used to describe it by people who aren't watching closely and don't know what they're seeing. Watching a lot of morning works and races, I would say in most cases where the horse needs more urging, jocks only make contact with the horse a few times. Most of the time the whip is used to help create and lengthen the rhythm- fanned alonside for two or three strides, then hit the boot or saddlepad one stride, and fan again.

The whip is also used as a steering mechanism, remember jockeys have no leg ON the horse, so if a horse is drifting or lugging, the whip is often used to direct the horse's path.

There's really an art to whip use in racing, and you have to watch closely to see it.

And if a horse has nothing left to give, most jocks put the whip away, because it's not going to make the horse go faster and they know it. I do think occasionally in the stretch, with the endorphins going, a jockey may hit the horse a few times in a row, but for the most part this "merciless whipping" stuff is a myth fueled by people who don't take the time to really learn about what they're seeing, who are making assumptions without looking closely. Really whipping a horse often makes them upset/nervous which can slow them down, so it's totally counterproductive.

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It doesn't help that in the movie "Seabiscuit" when he's with his first owner/trainer he tells the jock to "see how many times you can hit him between" one point and another (I forget the actual line). People who have seen that movie and don't know anything about horses thinks thats the norm instead of the exception.

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When i was on the track my boss would look at a horse's butt when they got back from a workout. If he saw whip tracks anywhere they were NOT supposed to be he'd ream the jockey out. It's an art. They apply the whip in exercise with just enough force to stir the dust and train the horse. On race day they make minimal contact.

But really...smacking a horse with a whip in a race (flat race, barrel race, same thing) does no damage unless done with no restraint. Mostly it's fanned, but when it does make contact it is a cue, nothing else. It's not a horrible beating.

But as we know, some people are stupid sheep and believe everything they read, especially if it suits their agenda.

HTTY & GBTUSA

BUMPER

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I think we should show PETA the difference between "whipping mercilessly" and using the bat like a jockey uses his bat. We should demonstrate right on their little buttucks.

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There are always bad apples.

im sure some jokeys hit their horses harder than nessecary.

But MOST of them don't.

I talked with a jokey once and he said that he just waved it and rarely ever hit the horse with it, that just them seeing it is good enough.

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Plus, a crop doesn't hurt THAT bad. I hit myself in the arm the other day (Don't ask how, I have NO clue) with a crop and it stung for a couple of seconds but didn't really HURT persay.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lash Man and Al Girl:

Plus, a crop doesn't hurt THAT bad. I hit myself in the arm the other day (Don't ask how, I have NO clue) with a crop and it stung for a couple of seconds but didn't really HURT persay.

Oh man, yea they can.

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quote:

Originally posted by All Apologies:

quote:

Originally posted by Lash Man and Al Girl:

Plus, a crop doesn't hurt THAT bad. I hit myself in the arm the other day (Don't ask how, I have NO clue) with a crop and it stung for a couple of seconds but didn't really HURT persay.

Oh man, yea they can.

Well, they may hurt a little more on us than they do on horses anyways.

A crop doesn't hurt as bad as a lunge whip. I wrapped a lunge whip around my ankle one time with jeans on and I almost fell to the ground.

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quote:

Originally posted by All Apologies:

You've not seen a horse get welts? Or be opened up but a crop? Those things HURT, otherwise there would not be regulations about how they can be used.

Sure haven't. Then again, I ride Western.

I should have worded it differently. What I meant in the first place is that a crop that is used properly doesn't hurt that bad. (I'm studying for finals and my brain is dead) From what I've seen, (and I live in Kentucky) at races, it's more just a flick. A flick with a crop isn't going to hurt. A good pop is going to sting and get some attention. "Whipping mercilessly" is going to hurt, yes.

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I've ridden English, and enjoyed racing all my life, and NEVER seen a horse with welts or laid open by a crop. I have to admit I have, in the right instance, laid a whip on very hard, and never seen a mark. I've even cracked a horse with the buckle end of my reins so hard she jumped to the side and seen nothing on her shoulder. ( Not proud of that, but there was a reason, and escalating pressure).

The racing stewards pay close attention to the use of whips, and if they are used to much, the jockey is severly penialized.

To the OP why SHOULD you be against racing?

PS Can I apply for the position of applying the whip "mercilessly" to PETA? I'll show them the definition of the word!

[ 05-06-2008, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: OTTB-LUVER ]

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quote:

Originally posted by All Apologies:

No, they do not beat them. Well, good jocks do not, at least. They flag the whip moreso than actually make contact with it.

that's what I have always heard. One of my best buddies growing up, her father was a jockey.

I could see how it would easily confuse people that don't pay enough attention. I'm sure that the whip does make contact at times, but they're not beating horses mercilessly at all. If that was true, more horses would protest work and become dangerously sour.

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quote:

Originally posted by All Apologies:

You've not seen a horse get welts? Or be opened up but a crop? Those things HURT, otherwise there would not be regulations about how they can be used.

I have. It was one of the most horrible experiences of my life. Not in horse racing though, that was a dressage horse.

I think the PETA's argument is ridiculous. [Roll Eyes] I have such respect for jockeys (well the majority of them at least), and anyone who knows what they're talking about and has actually watched horse racing will realize that they do not "mercilessly whip" their horses.

[ 05-07-2008, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: -half halt- ]

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Originally posted by All Apologies:

You've not seen a horse get welts? Or be opened up but a crop? Those things HURT, otherwise there would not be regulations about how they can be used.

______________________________

I once saw a three year old in reining training that had the skin split on several places on her rump and her sides. Where was PETA then? Did they take any action? Of course not-not high profile enough for their "cause".

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quote:

Originally posted by Lash Man and Al Girl:

Plus, a crop doesn't hurt THAT bad. I hit myself in the arm the other day (Don't ask how, I have NO clue) with a crop and it stung for a couple of seconds but didn't really HURT persay.

After being beaten by a former trainer I can tell you that is bogus. Same woman left welts on the horse, before I begged her to stop. That's when she turned on me. Her life sucked, so she took it out on my horse and me. Trust me.. it hurts to have your skin ripped open and welts left.. it HURTS. No worries, horse was moved immediately following that. I think she had a nervous breakdown shortly after we left though. LOOONG story.

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If you are a jockey that has attained a reputation that has trainers choosing you to ride thier filly/colt in the Derby you are the top in your field and have worked hard to gain and keep that reputation. You will protect that reputation no matter what it takes with very few exceptions. This includes following all of the rules and making sure you are not doing things that will get you fined by the stewards on race day. The jockey's do not whip the horses in most cases (not to say some of the jockey's at small track's around the country are not guilty of whipping, there are bad apples in all professions). The jockey's that are racing in the Derby, Preakness, Belmont, etc. want the trainers to remember thier clean rides and ask them to ride for them in the future where they can get a bigger payday also.

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I honestly can't imagine that the horses wouldn't slow up and buck the jockeys off if they whipped them hard repeatedly with a whip. I don't know a ton about racing TBs, but I don't know too many horses in general that would take been hit really hard over and over while they were trying to do their job. I also wouldn't bet it is too easy to ride a buck out in one of those jockey saddles, though I would like to see someone try.

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