edenn3583

Sweet Itch/mtg -pics New Symptoms

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Our gelding gets what I assume is sweet itch every summer and ruins his hair. I've put him on anti-hist and daily MTG treatments and I roached his mane because he had none left and figured a fresh start and treatment would be eaiser. he has stopped itching so much but the MTG is causing him to scurf and be sore to the touch. Has anyone had this experience with this product or with the condition in general.

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Here is one of overall body condition

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Edited by edenn3583

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MTG has worked great for me. I've used it for just about everything on my horses...hair loss, rain rot, sweet itch, etc. I've never had them experience any soreness from it, though. I would make sure the skin and hair was clean and completely dry before I put on the MTG. Try washing with a gentle iodine solution (keeping it clean and disinfected) and then using a gentle conditioner like Mane n' Tail. Afterwards let it dry and then gently rub on the MTG.

The instructions on the MTG say not to wash between applications, so I would wash every 2-3 days and condition when needed. With two of the horses I'm training, I wash them every day and it still doesn't effect the MTG, so use your discretion.

Good luck!

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Just a thought here could be wrong but have you had him checked for mange. I saw horse that had that on an animal rescue show and the horse looked like that. He was sore to the touch too. Course the owner was treating it with motor oil so that could have been the reason for that. Its just a thought but your horse reminded me of the show. Good luck!

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Ack, I saw that episode...and the show where an owner was treating his dog's hair loss with some kind of purple horse/cow medicine (the name escapes me...). The dog was entirely purple afterwards, not to mention pitiful.

And I don't think it's mange since it's seasonal...?

Edit: Also, use lots of fly spray! He could be allergic to insect bites.

Edited by mlong13

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I do think he is allergic to the bugs, and it is seasonal, so I don't believe it is mange, he just scratches on EVERYTHING, poor guy. I don't wash between treatments, but today I did wash him w/iodine shampoo and did not put anything back on him. His belly is one whole raw spot from where he itches it with his teeth. I think I will just put the MTG on every other day or every couple of days, also if it were mange his pasture buddy would have it too and he does not. All summer I have laid the fly spray to him and it does not help. I thought about a feed thorough like insideout (or whatever that stuff is that makes black as knight) The bugs have died down here quite a bit, but he is still itchy, could it be some type of grass or weed he rolls on?

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Poor baby!

I've never seen one that's allergic to weeds or grass...and you said he's on an antihistamine?

Edit: do you put him on any supplements during the summer time? has the quality or type of hay changed? he could be allergic to that...

Edited by mlong13

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I have had two horse with the same kind of problems. One of them had allergies(sp?) and other had a fungas. The one with the allergies we were told to keep fly spray on and the one with fungas athletes foot cream and that works great. Don't know if this helps but worth a shot.

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FLAX SEED!! My gelding Joe, gets the same thing, well, it wasn't as bad your horse, but it was still bad. We tried EVERYTHING! Steroid shots, antihistamines, creams, dewormers, listerine/baby oil. NOthing worked until I had read on here about Flax seed. Now, Joe gets started in the spring(March) and never gets started on the itchies!! I buy a 50lb bag, and it will last me all through sprin into the fall, and when it runs out, I don't buy any again until March. I should keep him on it though.

Try the flax, you will see resuilts!!

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MTG is horrible stuff. I have never/would never use it, but I have heard hundreds of horror stories of it causing horrible hair loss and other skin issues.

Like cols said, I have heard 100% great results from using flax seed. One of my horses gets summer itch a little bit. I have had about 75% results from using Absorbine Kills all fly spray daily, and absorbines medicated spray and wash. The first summer my filly got it I couldnt ride her with a saddle because it was so bad on her belly. I havnt had that problem since.

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Just had my horse have half his tail fall out thanks to MTG. Evil stuff. Get a skin scraping on your horse done so you know what you're dealing with. Sounds like he's pretty uncomfortable and it looks like he has some pretty extreme problems.

Edited by scapoose

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Wow...I never heard horror stories from MTG before! I use it all the time for anything, but I only use it for a few weeks at a time. What exactly happened when you used it so I don't end up over-doing it?

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Here are some new pics I have taken this evening. The first ones were from a week ago, so every thing does look better except now he is getting the flaky skin, he did this last year also We cut our own hay and it is from the same field every year so that has not changed, his feed has changed but he did the same thing last year on a diff feed, now he is on Nut. Safe Choice which is a pelleted feed. The only sup. he is on how is the anit-hist. I\'ve never fed flax seed, so how would you go about feeding it, he is about 1,000 lbs Oh and I did want to add the reason I feel it is the bugs, when he is out w/ my other gelding he stomps and swishes his tail like he is being eaten up and Dancer (the bay is banjo) acts like there is hardly a bug on him. Pics in a min when they load up...

Skin Flakes after I used a curry on his crest:

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Flakes on his dock

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Throatlatch

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Edited by edenn3583

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MTG is petroleum (oil) based and also contains sulfur. Both components that many horses are allergic to.

The stuff really has no proven efficacy for any of the stuff it's "supposed" to help either.

I wouldn't use it if you paid me.

That said....this horse has an allergy to something...so it would be best to isolate what that something is and try to avoid it.

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is it common to use a "burka" over there? Iceys that have been exprted often have allergies to bugs and such, and they wear special blankets like this http://www.brumby.no/kategori.php?kategori...;subkategori=21 this usually together with an anti histamin is the only thing that works.

also remember that different horses have different reactions to different types of anti histamins, so talk to your vet and get him on a different one.

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is it common to use a "burka" over there? Iceys that have been exprted often have allergies to bugs and such, and they wear special blankets like this http://www.brumby.no/kategori.php?kategori...;subkategori=21 this usually together with an anti histamin is the only thing that works.

also remember that different horses have different reactions to different types of anti histamins, so talk to your vet and get him on a different one.

I don't think it is the antihistamines because he flaked like this last year, you know the first summer we had him he did not get like this, but last/this summer he has, I know I keep adding in clues but I've been battling this for awhile and I just keep remembering stuff, the vet would give him an allergy shot

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is he stalled or pastured??

you mihgt consider using SWAT on the biggere ffected areas,

I asked if he was stalled or pastured as my Moms old mare had a severe alergy to pasture grasses, and would loose her hair and have HUGE raw spots when she would lay in it.. specially during the summer when some were polinating... she also had an alergy to Gnats, we had to use a lotion for alergies that had sunscreen in it, and then keep her in the stall an only let her graze in hand walks to keep her from rolling.. we had to import fresh pine wood chips cause she was alergic to cedar.. Once we figured out we have to be so careful, she quite loosing her hair.. Oh yea we had to keep her very very clean, couldnt use any conditioners on her, and had to use surgical iodine to bath her.. we used a head to toe fly sheet in the summer to keep the gnats off her and even had to modify it so that it covered her belly, we also had the leg covers as well..

we did this till the day she passed at the age od 23

once we figured out this mare had more algergies than the average human we were able to help her.. we had to pay for the vet to do a lot of alergy testing on her.. but she was my moms best friend, and she couldnt just let her suffer..

you might ask you vet to help test her for what she is alergic to..

I wouldnt use MTG anymore.. it really is not a good product..

only thing I use is a good clean rinsing shampoo, a good leave in conditioner, I really mane and tail myself.. and a little baby oil in the conditioner to help it be a better detangler as well..

I use the same watered down mane and tail shampoo on my horses body too.. I get a 2 gallon water bucket, fill it with water and add 2 tbsp of shampoo and 1tbps of conditioner.. and make sure i rinse it off really good.. then i use a water squeegy and get as much fo the water as possible off and rinse again, this makes sure there isnt anything left on the skin to cause irritation.. i then use the squeegy again to get the horse dry faster.. I keep them either walking or tied up or eating till they are completely dry this way dust doesnt stick to them..

Good luck with your horse.. check for alergies and go throught the antihystamine arsinal till you find what works..

[Angel] [Huggy]

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I have noticed that bugs seem to be more attracted to darker horses. Im guessing because they give off more heat. Flax seed is really good for the coat. I give it to mine when i go to show cause it keeps their coats nice and shinny and for some reason the bugs wont bother them as much. It also help keeps a black horse from fading. It kinda acts as a sunblock. I just put a scoop in the feed and away ya go lol :grin:

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All the topicals you want to apply will bring temporary relief but won't stop what's mostly likely going on: Neck Threadworms AKA Onchocerca. The emergence of the microfilia from beneath the skin cause exactly what you're seeing. Most folks say "Oh, my horse is 'allergic' to the gnats/midges/no-see-ums, so that's why he's itchy." Um, nope. It's the microfilia emerging.

NTWs won't show in a fecal exam because they don't reside in the gut. They take up residence in soft tissue, joints, ligaments, etc. When the microfilia hatch, they come out via the skin.

Double dose Equimax. Wait two weeks and then double dose again. Repeat again in two weeks if necessary. Many say, though, that you can just double dose with Ivermectin. However, the Australian studies show that the combo of Ivermectin/Praziquantal found in Equimax is more effective. Can't say exactly why since I'm no scientist nor do I have double blind studies.

WARNING: Do Not use Zimectrin Gold. A) Not enough praziquantal in it; B) Is a known source of causing mouth blisters/sores in hundreds of horses. The manufacturer is aware of it but won't change the medications carrier that is the alleged cause.

If you can, pop over to this thread on COTH: http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=155469. Verrrry informative and helpful. Here is some other info, though, in the meanwhile:

http://www.horsehealthdewormer.com/neck_thrdwrms.htm

http://horsehints.org/Parasites.htm

Edited by Chocomare

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Ok I read all your info and I do think that it is a good possibility that is what he has, I was going to double dose equimax but they had Equimectrin (it says it treats neck threadworms) on sale for 5.99 so I went for that and he was wormed w/equimectrin about three weeks ago. I still don't understand, is this just a maintance or a cure? If I worm well all winter shouldn't the adults die after their 5month life cycle and next summer he should be fine right? We get lots of snow here in the winter and the flies die off I suppose. I gave him one tube today and will do another tube sat night is that close enough together? I also got the healingtree stuff for the skin, I hope that helps. His eyes run and everything just like the description says. So in two weeks double dose again? or wait a month? And is this a cure? Also after I treat aggressivly then what about a daily wormer? Would that prevent this next summer or is it not strong enough?

Edited by edenn3583

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Double dose today. Wait 2 weeks. Double dose again.

A) If it's not NTWs, you won't hurt him ...he'll just be squeaky clean. It will also let you rule out NTWs and then I'd say Get the Vet Out for Steroids.

B) If it is NTWs, you'll see healing and hair regrowth.

As to the word "cure," well I won't go that far but you will have some peace of mind knowing that the parasites are under control.

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My horse used to do that. I started him on flax seed and he's been on it now for a couple of years. He still itches, but not to the point where he will rub himself raw anymore. Before that, we had the vet do steroid injections with Vetalog, I beliive. He made me nervous when he said the steroids carry a significant risk of acute founder, but I had no problems.

I didn't know about the NTW thing. If I have a problem again with Phoenix, I try double dosing him with dewormer.

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The double dose thing is what is getting me... I've always used quest or zgold I have never double dosed a horse. Do you give both syringes today? one today and one tomorrow? ...

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Oh and Fielda.. I looked for the flax seed and they did not have it at the farmers co-op? any ideas? What about flaxseed oil from grocery store? Do you crush it? I would not mind having him on it, I know several people who have had him on it, so if i can find it...

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The double dose thing is what is getting me... I've always used quest or zgold I have never double dosed a horse. Do you give both syringes today? one today and one tomorrow? ...

Double dosing means: if your horse weighs 700 pounds, draw up to the 1400 pound measure on the tube. Administer.

In two weeks, do the same thing.

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If you want to try the flax as well, some info on that.I think it is awesome stuff. All of my horses are on it year round. In addition to helping some horses with itching issues, it really benefits the coat. You'll have a nice shine after awhile. It also contains Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids (EFA's) that are only available to horses from green grass. They are lost in the making of hay, so I like to feed it all winter as well.

The two easiest ways to go are ordering it preprepared or having your feed store order a bag of the flax seeds. Preprepared, the cheapest way to go is probably Nutra-Flax. It is already ground and stabilized so it won't go bad before you can feed it. You can order it from HorseTech

(1 cup=4 ounces I believe - would have to double check) The Nutra-Flax does have the calcium/phosphorous ratio adjusted so that it is ideal. However, Flax is such a small percentage of what a horse consumes in a day, I'm not sure how important that is.

The other cheaper, but slightly more bothersome option is to ask your feed store to order a bag of flax seed for you. Mine doesn't keep it in stock, since it can go bad quickly in the heat, but can order it. The seed will get buggy, so I keep the bag in the house and just keep a bit in a bucket at the barn. I grind mine, daily, with a coffee grinder. If you grind it too far ahead, it will go rancid. You can feed from 1/2 to 1 cup a day. I feed about 3/4 of a cup, though I'm going to up my two that are itchy this year to a full cup. That's post grinding amounts. It measures more ground than in the seed form. As with any feed, build up gradually.

I hope that was some help! Even if it doesn't fix your horse's issues, it's wonderful stuff. You won't believe the shine it will put on a horse's coat. All my horses will be on it from now on. Good luck fixing your poor boys issues! [smiley Wavey]

Edited by ExtraHannah

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Part of the reason I'm thinking the worms is I knew the horse one yr. before we bought him and the first summer we owned him he did not have it and he developed in only after about half way thru. the summer last year, I thought it was flies but this is just a new thing going on

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Oh and Fielda.. I looked for the flax seed and they did not have it at the farmers co-op? any ideas? What about flaxseed oil from grocery store? Do you crush it? I would not mind having him on it, I know several people who have had him on it, so if i can find it...

There are different locations to find the stuff. It might take some searching or asking for special ordering. The local Southern States where I live is where I get it from. Anyways, I feed it ground fresh every morning. I have a single serve coffee grinder that will hold about 1/2 cup of seed. I grind that amount every morning before I feed and give that for the day's ration per horse. I'm not sure about the oil or how much you'd have to give to get a sustainable effect that would suit a horse of his size.

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Well, banjo and I are going to the vet at 3:15, I double dosed him last night and I knew if it was the NTW that he had there might be swelling but this is what I found when i went out to bring them in today. Yikes! I'm hoping to confirm the Worms and get him some relief. I'll let you know when we get back, it does appear to be tender and swollen not to mention all the dead skin, which may be from all the itching. I'm just worried about it being near his windpipe. I'm going to find out if a daily wormer will prevent this again once I get it cleared up.

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