xcanchaserchicx

What Is This Bit For?

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don't want to highjack your thread, but I'm wanting to know what this bit is used for.

mcb120.jpg

how does that thing work? does the ropey-thing go under the chin or over the nose or poll or what????? :confused0024:

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Thanks.

I saw that bit being used by a trail rider.

Most trail riders I know would never think to put something like that in their horses mouths.

I personally thought it looked extremely harsh ..

Let's review the action of that bit...

The thin (very) noseband appears to be designed to crush the nasal bone to get the horses attention if he can get past the endorphin rush crash.

The flat mouth piece with the port and roller seems like it will smush the upper pallet (sp?) in between the noseband and the port. The roller is for the horse to continue to be a figety mess in between cues from the rider. I'm also willing to bet that the mouth piece will put pressure on the bars when the bit is brought into action and the lower edge will be the rotating point. Come to think of it, when that bit rotates in the mouth, I bet that the upper bars will be pressed on as well.

The horse will have his head squeezed in between the poll and the mouth due to the shanks and leverage, there will be curb pressure behind the horse's lower jaw, there will be nose pressure and pallet (sp?) pressure....seems kind of like a nut cracker effect to me.

Over all, when you start looking at the actions that will happen when you lift those reins...I can't think of a single good reason to use a bit like that, except in an isolated training session. I certainly wouldn't want that as my every day bit!!!!

I guess if you have a problem and wish to use a hatchet instead of a scapel or a tweezers, you could use that bit... [Duh] :twitch::thud:

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The rope goes over the nose to be used as a hackamore.

Then there's the bit with the gear teeth rollers inside the mouth.

I was told the 'idea' of it was that if the horse didn't listen to the hackamore then the bit went into action.

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The rope goes over the nose to be used as a hackamore.

Then there's the bit with the gear teeth rollers inside the mouth.

I was told the 'idea' of it was that if the horse didn't listen to the hackamore then the bit went into action.

Sure, that's the "idea" of it. I'm sorry if I had the order of action out of order, but I got struck by how incredibly painful this bit is designed to be. Even if the "hackamore" portion of the bit comes into play *after* the horse ignores the bit, it will be a very painful bit. That rope is very thin, so the pressure will be very focused. That will equal more pain.

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Interesting. I think this is one of those situations where we think a prescription is necessary. In the right hands and in an enclosed environment that would be one **** of an attention getting device but using the thin rope alone to fly the horse like a kite, softly. My point as others keep reminding as well is that it could be a useful tool to make a specific lesson in a training situation. Not for the heavy handed or careless weekend warrior to yank a horse around for certain. When people start caring more about riding their horses bodies than their heads and using their legs as more primary aids leaving reins and hands for correction and shape their enjoyment of riding soars. (finger cramp!)

Sorry. comic relief. The bit becomes less important as a result.

William (historyrider)

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Well, I've been to some boards where the turbo lifter bit was discussed,but had to go to the sales site to even see what the contraption looked like

I have never seen anyone on the breed circut I show on use such a bit in western pleasure, and we do have classes where bit checks are done and the bridle dropped. I'm amased that it is actually a legal show bit

I keep things very simple, and use pretty much the bits that Doug Carpenter describes in his book on western pleasure

A junior horse is ridden in a plain snaffle, alternated often with a bosel

I transition a horse to a curb, using a short shanked loose jawed curb with abroken mouth piece.

From there I go to a short shanked curb with fixed shanks and a low port.

My finished western pleasure horse is ridden in an aluminium grazing bit or a klapper.

No catheral bits or any other extremes

I aso use legs to rate a horse, not spurs. The spur stop is controversial in western pleasure, and many are speaking out against it, including judges.So I must disagree with Blue eyed Devil on this point. I ride with spurs, as aids, but not as something to stick into a horse's sides inorder to have them suck back and be intimidated to move foreward. I think we have dealt with the spur stop under another post.

The spur stop-or riding the brakes-is not part of my western pleasure program, nor is it the general method used by all western pleasure trainers.

Whether it is part of your program, is a choice I guess.

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So I must disagree with Blue eyed Devil on this point. I ride with spurs, as aids, but not as something to stick into a horse's sides inorder to have them suck back and be intimidated to move foreward. I think we have dealt with the spur stop under another post.

The spur stop-or riding the brakes-is not part of my western pleasure program, nor is it the general method used by all western pleasure trainers.

Whether it is part of your program, is a choice I guess.

I maybe I wasn't clear about spur training, what I meant was legs are used to ask the horse to collect and rate, with a spur roll for greater collection. I by no means advocate "riding the brakes" , that is not the purpose of proper spur training. Proper spur training allows a rider to rate and "remind" the horse without going to the bit. That is what I mean.

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Spurs are odd tools.

I know many barrel racers who look to a spur to encourage speed ... FORWARD motion.

Personally, I look to spurs to move a horse off of my leg ... to emphasize my 'away from pressure' cues ... to teach a horse to disengage or engage a hip, to put arc in a ribcage, to keep a 'fishy' horses from falling out behind.

I know that there are many things I don't know .... I find this concept interesting. REAL hard for me to conceptualize, but interesting, none the less.

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I've used that bit for a little fine tuning with Phoenix occasionally. It's an advanced bit and should only be worn by a horse that knows how to carry a bit and a rider that knows how to use it.

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The Mikmar bit listed above is actually designed to evenly distribute pressure throughout the contact points (nose, bars, tongue) so that it's actually relatively difficult to apply the same pressure to the tongue with that bit as it is with a standard snaffle.

The same goes for the "very" thin noseband. I've seen lots of folks riding in rope hackamores, yet they snatch up on the face when they stop their horse. This bit was designed to allow for the excess of pressure in that situation, to be distributed to the bars and tongue more evenly.

This is also designed to achieve the clarity by allowing a subtler, yet more clearly communicative action of hand engaging the bit. By subtler, I am saying that because of the action of the bit being spread out, this bit reaches the pain threshold far slower than just a snaffle, or just a rope hack. That, when you consider the hands of the average rider, is a great comfort to a horse.

Most of the people I work with have bricks for hands and the timing of a sundial at night. They wonder why their horse tosses their head. Well, it's because instead of politely readying the horse through a series of clear communications, they snatch up on the horses mouth. They may think they're being soft, but in fact, they're being ridiculously hard on their horses. This bit was designed to slow that down.

When engaged, the pressures are also applied more clearly, applied more "politely" and often times, bits of these nature can be a tremendous aid to make up for what the rider lacks.

And in case I was mistaken in any point of my post (heck, I was writin' that from memory) -- here's their video page.

MIKMAR videos - Click "Why Mikmar Bits Were Invented"

As for fixing the problem horses who need to be "convinced" that they should do something, well, the only real piece of equipment that will help is this.

casio-super-chronograph-watch-020608.jpg

And it will only work if you let the HORSE set the time on it, not you.

As for spurs, I agree with QF. I hate getting on a horse only to discover that it has Screaming Cheetah Wheelie speed when you even brush it's sides, yet you have no lateral control, except to drag the face. And the ones I've ridden like that (and on a couple of occasions, fallen off of), are barrel racers. Frankly, I think that if you can't train a horse to do the pattern bridleless at a walk, trot, canter and then full blast, you ought not to be riding that horse. Coming from the other side of things, it's a heckuva lot of fun to be sitting there having someone come up to you and say, "Gee, I just bought this failed barrel prospect, and I can't get him/her/it to slow down. I've got everything strapped to his head but the kitchen sink, and his bit looks like the equine dentist left the speculum in, but he still won't stop. Oh, and he's Parelli Level Seven trained. What am I doing wrong?"

Oh my, oh my. Where does one start?

Edited by RollingThunder

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Snarkiness follows. So that bit is a quick fix gimmick for those people who don't want to bother learning how to properly ride their horse or develop light hands?

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Nice to hear from you again Roland!!

He wasn't recomending that bit Jazz, he was just trying to help us understand what it was "designed" for. I do see what the makers are after Roland and I guess it's old fashioned of me to not wish to embrace technology. Perhaps it's pride but I didn't spend decades working on my feel so that someone can invent something that might communicate better with a horse's mouth than I could with a smooth snaffle. One thing is for sure. There are no shortage of "tools" out there to help seperate a horse owner from his or her money.

William (historyrider)

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Perhaps my understanding of this bit is somewhat less than perfect, but the gist of the website is that for ~$160, I can skip out on teaching myself or my horse something. [Question] :thud:

I have my pride. I will continue to keep it simple. Snaffle to start and progress to a simple curb. I will work with the horse to find one they like, but anytime you start playing with bits to "fix" something long term, it's a training issue and not a bit issue. Certain bits have their place for "tuning" a horse, but "tuning" is similar to "training" and you should not have to stay with a bit that you use for tuning. Then it's no longer tuning the horse....the only tuning is the horse tuning you out.

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OK ... baby is 4. Was broke at 3. Came home after 60 days (maybe 90) wearing a shanked curb bit with a medium diameter double twisted wire mouthpiece.

Wow. I shudder to think of the time I wasted with Dakota. I rode him in a D-ring snaffle with a copper mouthpiece for 2 1/2 years before moving him up into a very soft, shorter shanked curb late this summer. And to think I could have done it at 60 days. [Crazy]

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I know you're jokin', Kota .... but I should point out that at 4, this colt is running through a bit that a seasoned, finished, heavy~headed barrel horse will view as a good reason to get behind the bit ... poise himself and think about it. I own one of these devices and use it BRIEFLY on runaways. After a few sessions when respect has re~entered the picture, I go right back down the scale to the lightest thing he'll work with that I can still get into his head when I need to ... then as he starts becoming honest and trusting in his efforts, down the scale again.

I'm guessing that with out doing the serious retraining that she's incapable of and likely WON'T turn loose of the money in these hard times to hire done ... this colt will find himself in a bit that is shanked like the first bit in this thread.

All thanks to the 'trainer' who couldn't take the time to teach this prospective trail horse that a flat footed walk was a wonderful thing.

SAME trainer sent her home with instructions to keep this colt's hoof angles in the high 40s so he could 'get in his gait'.

This is a trail horse. TRAIL HORSE shod upright and soon to be sporting like 12" shanks on a curb bit.

I try to explain to my friend .... she dismisses me as a non~gaited horse person. She's owned horses for under 5 years.

Sad stuff.

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The bits themselves are not the problem. The problem arises when any training tool or new-fangled gimmick(thinking buckstopper) is put in the hands of those who do not have a clue.

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When you worked at the tack shop, did you run to hide bits when certain people would pull up?

Did you throw yourself in front of the bit display .... arms spread .... BEGGING for the very sanity of some poor, unseen horse?

Did you SWEAR you were ALL OUT of the little, tiny twisted wire o~rings when they were fashionable?

Did you say things like "OH! Haven't you HEARD? John Lyons JUST threw away ALL of his full cheeks and declared that the SIDEPULL was the ONLY bit suitable for the TRUE, bear stalking, helicopted standing under NH horse?"

Be true, Jazzmatazz.

You DID these things and MORE, didn't you?

(BUT ... she NEVER EVER breathed 'drop dead jerk' under her breath as anybody walked out the door. EVER.)

[ROTFL]

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When you worked at the tack shop, did you run to hide bits when certain people would pull up?

Did you throw yourself in front of the bit display .... arms spread .... BEGGING for the very sanity of some poor, unseen horse?

Did you SWEAR you were ALL OUT of the little, tiny twisted wire o~rings when they were fashionable?

Did you say things like "OH! Haven't you HEARD? John Lyons JUST threw away ALL of his full cheeks and declared that the SIDEPULL was the ONLY bit suitable for the TRUE, bear stalking, helicopted standing under NH horse?"

Be true, Jazzmatazz.

You DID these things and MORE, didn't you?

(BUT ... she NEVER EVER breathed 'drop dead jerk' under her breath as anybody walked out the door. EVER.)

[ROTFL]

[ROTFL] Yes to all of the above, except the the last sentence. Sometimes I used a stronger descriptive. :grin:

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I'm sorry Flash. I honestly wasn't trying to make light of your point. I was just trying to be snarkastic. [Huggy] I am in total agreement with you.

I know how many hours I had in on Dakota before I even considered changing bits. In the end, the only real reason I changed at all was because he was neck reining almost exclusively and I prefer to do that in a curb. He doesn't do anything in a curb that he couldn't do in a snaffle. I personally think that the horse SHOULD be able to do anything asked of him in a snaffle before he is ready for a curb. Speaking just for myself personally, I know I could NEVER get a horse truly ready for a curb in 60 days. Just seeing the picture of that first bit (second one too for that matter) just kind of makes me sick to my stomach. If a person has to put that much hardware ON their head, they probably haven't put enough IN it. Of course, I speak from the enviable position of never having to RE-train anything. All the young horses I work with are blank slates.

Edited by mydakota

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I never said I used it, nor do I condone or accept the Mikmar bit. However, if I have a finished horse and I am about to put a green rider on him, I might consider using that bit to save my horse some issues, and to help the rider find the lightness they need.

Just sayin'.

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The latest marketing name of that bit is a ported mullen. It is a very nice little bit, not too heavy, fairly well balanced. The port on it makes it really nice for horses with wide or thick tongues, as well as those with a low palate. The short "S" curve of the shank reduces the amount of leverage on the horse and gives him an earlier cue to sit up and pay attention because something is about to happen here.

The only drawbacks I've seen on this bit is sometimes there will be sharp spots on or around the roller, and the dots on the shanks have a tendancy to fall off. It is an imported, mass produced bit with either a gunsmoke or brushed stainless finish. All in all, a nice bit. I have no qualms about using it.

Edited by Jazzmatazz

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Tokoro - As I previously said...there is no such thing as "stealing" or "hijacking" this thread. It's a free for all...that's why I said post bits you may be interested in knowing about. :grin:

Is this a stylish, diguised Tom Thumb?!

256710.JPG

Is this a spoon type bit?

PB8801.JPG

This looks like a pleasant bit...what's it for?

238312.JPG

Thanks! [smiley Wavey]

Edited by xcanchaserchicx

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First and foremost ... PLEASE oh PLEASE HIDE that first bit!

[ROTFL]

Somethings just have no place in public view!

Second, yes. But I don't like it. <shivers> I use a Springsteen that has it's place in certain moments of a horse's training, such as after a horse is well mouthed and beginning to understand 'lateral flex from the poll' a few easy rides in a Springsteen snaffle will sort of be a combination short grad course/pop quiz in the movement. You can show him more effectively what you are asking and by his response, you can tell if he understands it or not.

It's not a mild bit and it should be used under controlled circumstances to emphasize an already grasped concept. (Shall I say that a third time? LOL ... sorry.)

I can't see any hope of release in the bit pictured and wouldn't use if for much more than hangin' on the shed wall with the old, shredded Argentine and the spring, but very nice in it's day, pony bit. (After just taking a glance in my bit drawer ... I'm wondering if I should sort a few off before I start in with the steel wool and WD~40? Hmmmmm ....... shed wall? Or ... RIGHT there where I could grab you READY EDDY in a moment of need? Bit fetish ... it's a barrel racer thing.)

Third bit I'd love to add to my collection. It'd probably find itself in the drawer, BUT I like the fact that the shank and the purchase are equal ... it won't be a bet that will have a lot of leverage, you'll not be able to use this bit to achieve a horse getting vertical from the poll. What you will be able to do is to use a direct rein effectively, translate a nice soft uptake on the reins to a firm command if you'd need to. It's got a little bit of gag action, which I personally appreciate and I believe my horses do, as well. I wouldn't use this bit with out a pair of bit guards and WOULD use it as a transition from the snaffle to a curb .... to lighten and freshen a horse who's been working hard in a fairly 'stiff' bit for awhile.

I'd ALSO likely hand it on your rear up turn around and go home gelding.

As long as you apply your hands to it with a good shoulder~length spread, it shouldn't encourage him up and you should be able to get his face and 'double' him back to the direction you wanted to go with out causing a lot of panic on his part.

If I was expected a contest ... and a snaffle wasn't going to be enough (wide open spaces and previous history of running through one) I'd use this bit.

Because of the equality in purchase and shank ... I'd be careful using a standing martingale with this bit and if there were issues of my horse elevating his head to evade my hands ... I'd go with a running martingale and let my hands go up with him.

I like #3.

Edited by quarterflash

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The first bit looks to me to have a flat spoon mouth. That coupled with the straight shanks makes it very severe in most hands. It gives the horse no forewarning of rein cues.

The second bit is more of a modified Springsteen. That particular one I recognize, as we were wheelin' and dealin' on being the sole U.S. distributor for it. It was totally ignored at market so we dropped it. The one pictured was "designed" by an Australian gentleman who swore it was the cure of every horse's ills. Brought the sample home and everyone of my horses HATED it! I never even put any pressure on it and they were trying to get rid of it. The mouthpiece is super thin and the bars that go behind the chin act like a quick stop. Dangerous. This bit also has several different configurations, none of which worked to my or my horse's satisfaction. Use it only as a wall decoration IMHO.

I'm not familiar with the third bit, it I can see where it might ne a nice little training bit or transitional type bit.

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