dixieangel02

Shock Collar On Horses?

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I'm sure glad I have good sensible boys then! They are stalled next to mares; their paddocks have mares on both sides, and the only time they raise a fuss is when one of the girls stands right next to the fence and teases. After a few minutes, when they realize they can't get to the lady of their dreams, they just go on about the business of eating or hanging out in the sun. They WATCH that girl, but they don't keep acting the idiot. And both are 10 years old. If they were that nuts about it, they'd be geldings.

You are so lucky. My boss got a stallion in training recently who is perfectly fine stabled next to a mare. However, once you get him outside in the wild blue yonder, he gets out his stud muffin alter ego. Poor guy even goes ga-ga over my gelding. I think he's confused.... :tongue9:

I think he'll get over it though. He's one of the ones who are inside their whole lives until they're brought out to the breeding shed, so whenever he goes outside, he thinks it's go time. Hopefully, he'll realize that my mare is the only mare he's ever going to see on this farm, and he doesn't want to go anywhere near that! [ROTFL]

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"Saying that this situation is a lack of respect and training is like saying a mare who gets upset at weaning time is showing a lack of respect and training. Silly."

A stallion reacting to a mare in the stated situation IS a lack of respect of training! A mare getting up set when she is separated from her foal is NATURAL! Two totally different things! I would never disciple a mare for getting upset when we separate her from her foal! Wouldn't you be up set in that situation. Some mare will get use to it when they've had a couple foals but first time mothers you kind of expect it because she dosnt understand whats going on.

That is what im saying!! That situation could have been completly avoided with proper training. Yes horses are all different BUT i would have never let someone else care for my stud when i knew he was going to act like that i wouldnt have even took him from home

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Ok, so how are you going to train your stallion to behave like a perfect gentleman when he's all by himself with you nowhere in sight? How would you teach him not to get excited about mares? Not run the paddock fence when other horses are brought in/out? Not do any of the plethora of silly things that horses can and will do when left to their own devices?

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I personally don't like the idea of using shock collars on ANY animal, especially horses, since they are so reactive. It's just a quick-fix solution, instead of putting in necessary training time.

On dogs, I can understand it during brief, supervised training periods. What I would have a problem with is, say, leaving one for hours on a dog who barks too much to suit its owner. The dog is left alone in the yard all day, and it barks because it's lonely. Instead of spending more time with the dog or at least getting a companion for it, the owner just sticks a shock collar on it and hopes that will cure the problem. Not only is this cruel (like cutting out a dog's vocal cords) but the dog will often resort to other means of venting its frustration, like digging or even aggression toward the owner.

I'm not a big advocate of shock collars on ANY animal, at ANY time. There are better ways to get your point across with an animal.

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I was dead set against shock collars on anything. Until I met a man who hunted with Labs. He had me test it out on myself. There wasn't a jolt, but a mild tingling sensation.

Then he showed me how he used them. It wasn't at all what I expected. He actually used it to build upon his training. It wasn't something he used often either. Just usually as a touch up for his more stubborn dogs. Nor was it ever used as punishment. Merely as a tool to get a willful dog's attention when verbal and hand signals are being ignored.

Would I use it on a horse? I doubt it. I don't think I would use one period. It's not my particular style. I am not nearly as opposed to them I used to be though. In the right hands of course.

Edited by lcrutcher

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way back in 1992 i worked for a guy who owned shires. When he took them to the state fair, his stud was nuts.

As he was showing the mare he gave me a controll box. The stud wore a shock halter. He said if he starts to get goofy hit number 1. Said that it will most likely settle him down. Like touching an electric fence. When that didn't work hit number 2, only hit number 3 if he was climbing the walls.

Mare left, stud went crazy. hit number 1 didn't even effect him. Hit number 2 he just shook his head. Hit number 3 after he had his front feet over the top of the stall wall(remember he was over 18 hands) I hit number 3 it dropped him to his knees.

Never again. A collar like that to help a charging horse will not help anything, just make the situtation worse.

Problem it never cured the stallion from going nuts when the mare left did it?.Really think,this guy had to bring that halter/collar, control box with him every time he brought this stallion to a show, used this method to control this stallion's behavior it was more convient.. he knew this stallion would act goofy, this stallion has done it before in the past .., he had to use it each and every time. Otherwise he wouldn't have had to remark about his stallions behavior handed you the control box....

that halter alone didn't make him behave any differently ,only when he got shocked...it only subdued him for a time...

not any diferent than when they gave shock treatments to mental patients...

Not any different than when our electric fence goes off, our one horse knows it, she will get out. but once it is on stays on,she will not go near it.......she will be subdued for a time as long as it is on...once it goes off she may stay in for awhile,but she will test it get out..usually happens when ourf encer blows a fuse once in awhile.

using a shock collar won't cure the behavior, only stop the behavior a the time. only subdue the horse at the time..as with the stallion...

person still had use it and repeat to stop the behavior again....once the halter wasn't working, the horse still acted goofy, until that button was hit...

next day same thing. all over again

so Okay horse that charges with shock collar on ....gets shocked stops his behavior, behavior is subdued. repeat this a few times....

okay owner thinks horse is cured from charging.......

takes the collar,off the horse seems okay until next day the owner walks in , out of the blue the horse charges..horse doesn't have shock collar, horse knows this, horse keeps charging

the owner....

the horse will never be cured only subdued, by repeating this quick fix...to subdue

If the horse was cured there would be no need for repeating procedure again.....

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You are so lucky. My boss got a stallion in training recently who is perfectly fine stabled next to a mare. However, once you get him outside in the wild blue yonder, he gets out his stud muffin alter ego. Poor guy even goes ga-ga over my gelding. I think he's confused.... :tongue9:

I think he'll get over it though. ***He's one of the ones who are inside their whole lives until they're brought out to the breeding shed,*** so whenever he goes outside, he thinks it's go time. Hopefully, he'll realize that my mare is the only mare he's ever going to see on this farm, and he doesn't want to go anywhere near that! [ROTFL]

And that right there is the problem with many stallions. Mine don't live in stalls, they run out in large paddocks, and often have a companion in paddock with them. Once even a jack donkey served as a companion for one of the boys for a time.

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I personally would use shock collars on a horse if need. They learn do not do what gets them shocked. I don?t know if I in your case, depends on what all I tried. I have never used them on horses, but I have on dogs. I own 3 dogs. We don?t sue the shock collar on my olden, she is also only 15 pounds. We use it on my German Shorthair pointer, who is 45 pounds. We have a setting up to 5 and have to use 4 on her at times, a 4 sometimes takes her on her knees. We hate going that high and try to use a 2 sometimes a 3. Then my bloodhound who is 70 to 80 pounds, we use it on sometimes. When we was training her to stay in our yard, which she needs reminded. We had to use 5 once on her, which takes her down. But 3 or 5 dosen?t bug her. So I?m with the use of shock collars for certain reasons, but it depends. Used right shock collars are not cruel.

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Oz then me and you have something in common. We both stall our studs next to girls. Judge is stalled next to his girls. And i mean stalled right next to them. At our new place because of the lack of a full barn, the boys have stalls and the aer penned right up against the girls. Their panels are used as a fence for the girls. Judge does not act stupid at all. In fact i think it actually helps him. When we take him out away from the girls, or we go to a show, he acts just like a gelding.

So it is ALL in the training. This guy i used to work for took the easy way out when it came to his stud. If you train them right there is no need for shock collars, halters. Dogs yes, sometimes they need them for training purposes. My BIL uses them on his coon dogs while training.

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ITS ALL IN TRAINING.

I had a stud a few yrs bag around five yrs old. When i got im he would run thru fences, bust stalls down, jerk a kead rope from you when leading, anything to get to a mare. After months of training i tought him not to be that way. The only time that he acted studdy was when he has his stud chain on over his nose and that was when he was being bred! I could look from my house and see him in the paddock mares all around him in other pastures and he never paid no mind to them not once. He ate his grass, played alone. I ended up having to get him a goat for company cause he started to crib, and show signs of being lonely....Him and his goat were sold together and they are still together to this day is still go and see him now and then. I just thought that story was cute about him and his goat LOL But like i said and so many others its all in training and i totally agree with ANN WHEELER!

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Ouch! CR ... you know I'm on here. Please don't bring around that mental picture again!

Now there goes my bad attitude again......thinking up stuff like that.........muahahahaaaa..................

Sorry about that RT............hubba.gif

It's just that the perception of frothing at the mouth and laying on the ground convulsing after a zap from a collar is one of those "old wives tales" same as the one about how your are blown back twenty feet should you get hit by a bullet.......

CR

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And that right there is the problem with many stallions. Mine don't live in stalls, they run out in large paddocks, and often have a companion in paddock with them. Once even a jack donkey served as a companion for one of the boys for a time.

Agreed. While stallions can do all kinds of silly things, there's no reason to lock them away. It makes me so sad to hear about all the stallions (dressage stallions especially) who get locked away and only get out to be handwalked and ridden. He's still a horse for goodness sakes!

Treating them like freaks never works. We've had a couple stallions come in who were handled by complete amateurs, and had all kinds of weird breeding tendencies. One had been told "NO!" and gotten after every time he got excited or made noise. His owner had no idea, and got scared easily, so he was often chastised in the breeding shed, even for normal behavior. It took him a good hours worth of teasing to get him ready, and we finally told the owner they couldn't come anymore, because it took even longer when they were there! Then there was the one where EVERYTHING was a 5 man ordeal for the first few months he was here because he was so dangerous. I think that 75% of the people that have stallions shouldn't because the stud is the one who'll pay for it in the end.

Dixie- you still didn't answer my question. All I gathered from your post was that you had a cute goat friend, and he eventually got used to your place. :confused0024:

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Coppersmom, if people had the good sense to socialize their stallions when young, and KEEP them socialized, they would ALL be the better for it! They really ARE horses first, and should be treated as such, not as though they were a stick of dynamite that would blow up if it ever got near another horse. I can put colts, geldings, pregnant mares in with my boys, and after the first few minutes of squealing and posturing (from BOTH horses), they just settle in and enjoy the company. I can take them anywhere, and know they will behave. Makes breeding them a whole lot less dramatic too, as they don't just 'go nuts'.

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I was in a 6 page debate over shock collars on the barrel board a couple of years ago now I think. They hung me up to dry, well tried to! For dogs yes, for horses no. Not going into it anymore than that.

I will say this about stallions though. Some may remember my stallion Sam, I breed broke and trained him. I could put him in a yard with a mare to breed. If she wasn't interested I could call him off, he would listen and back down so I could catch him. When I took him to a station to breed a mare who wasn't ready and I told him to back off, the mare owners couldn't believe it. I should have filmed it really. He listened to me and he was trained well enough to do as he was told. So yes on his own time a well trained stallion can still listen no matter what is around him. And I believe it was nothing more than good training. For those who don't believe me, that's cool I was there lol!

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Oh, I believe you charliesgirl! I've been handling my own stallions for 40 years, and that IS what I expect of them! It IS all in the training.

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Now there goes my bad attitude again......thinking up stuff like that.........muahahahaaaa..................

Sorry about that RT............hubba.gif

It's just that the perception of frothing at the mouth and laying on the ground convulsing after a zap from a collar is one of those "old wives tales" same as the one about how your are blown back twenty feet should you get hit by a bullet.......

CR

Depends on the size of the bullet, and the voltage in the electrified object. Had a buddy pee on an electric fence once. Cow fence. 25,000 volts.

10 feet. No lie. ER visit too. Serious burns. Not funny. Not pretty, and I can still remember that scream very well.

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I read somewhere in an ad about horse shock collars that the "jolt" they give out isn't as strong as a dog shock collar. I don't know how true that is and it's been a long time since I read it but I do remember that. O do also remember the ad saying something about the horse can learn that when the collar isn't on they can get away with the behavior.

Personally, I would use one if all other training "tricks" didn't work. Like (I think) Bumper said, My own horses don't get far enough to need something like that. But if I get a horse that comes with a bad habit I wouldn't totally rule that out. But I'm also the one that suggested using a bb gun to break a pawing horse and got flamed for that. I must say too, the bb gun worked, in a short amount of time.

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I read somewhere in an ad about horse shock collars that the "jolt" they give out isn't as strong as a dog shock collar. I don't know how true that is and it's been a long time since I read it but I do remember that. O do also remember the ad saying something about the horse can learn that when the collar isn't on they can get away with the behavior.

Personally, I would use one if all other training "tricks" didn't work. Like (I think) Bumper said, My own horses don't get far enough to need something like that. But if I get a horse that comes with a bad habit I wouldn't totally rule that out. But I'm also the one that suggested using a bb gun to break a pawing horse and got flamed for that. I must say too, the bb gun worked, in a short amount of time.

When i worked on the racetracks in TX we used BB guns to keep horses moving on the hot walkers. Ours was an old, wheezy gun with hardly any air pressure...you could SEE the BB arc through the air. It was useless on a windy day. You had to learn how to aim it to adjust for the arc. And i know exactly how that BB gun felt because we often had BB gun wars. I got shot with that very gun...among others...more than once. Yes, we always aimed below the waist. I had lots of little BB sized red spots, but a horse's skin is way tougher than mine.

I'm all about what works. LOL

HTTY & GBTUSA

BUMPER

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COOPERSMOM- its all about training....i have never owned or handled a stud that just went compltly bonkars came by.Its dangerous for one...i dont think that studs should be allowed to act like that just because they have BALLS. Those balls only come out when i say so.! Thats the way it should be. no you cant control a stud on thier own time but if you train them well those training habits will turn over into his "alone" time and he wont act like that. have seen it done myself

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Totally off subject but I read a forward email about a man that tested out a tazar. He bought one for his wife so he decided to test it out on himself. He seemed to think it wasn't that powerful. He gave himself one little zap and then he was convulsing on the floor and peed all over his self. So the zappers really do work. I don't use these shock collars but a family member used one on her cripping gelding, still didn't stop him from doing it. I suppose it depends on how you use it and the person behind it. Anyone can take something and make it a bad thing. I have a Aunt that has invisible fence and it works, the animals have the little shock collars so they don't run off the property. I guess that could be the same principle in a way.

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COOPERSMOM- its all about training....i have never owned or handled a stud that just went compltly bonkars came by.Its dangerous for one...i dont think that studs should be allowed to act like that just because they have BALLS. Those balls only come out when i say so.! Thats the way it should be. no you cant control a stud on thier own time but if you train them well those training habits will turn over into his "alone" time and he wont act like that. have seen it done myself

*sigh*

You can say it's all about training as much as you want, but I'm asking you how you would train a stallion to sit in his corner when he's all by his lonesome and contemplate worldly things rather than notice that hey buddy, there's a mare over there!

Yes, a stallion can be trained to be a perfect angel under saddle. When you're there, it's a lot easier to direct his attention. But, since you think that you can train a stud to ignore all stimuli when you're not there, I want to know how. Sure, desensitization, exposure, and temperament play into how well behaved he is in a stall next to a mare, but I'm not buying that the training crosses over to when he's by himself and a mare in heat is peeing in his face.

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When a mare is peeing in his face, and one thing. Just removing a non-seasonal mare from his immediate sight is another, and it IS a training problem. As my boys well know. If they throw a fit when I remove a mare from the stall next to them, they get tied short with their face in the corner til they get over it, so they don't do that any more.

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a shock collar has its use and its time and place. at least in knowlegeble hands.

as for stallions. they are all different. some have more hormones than others. i have seen barns with several stallions. all owned from birth by the same owner. they were not all equally respectful at all times. some had a much stronger sex-drive than others, and were therefore harder to control around mares, while others were perfect gentlemen around mares in heat.

alot is in the training, but the individual does play a part.

i trained a stallion once, who was a perfect gentleman. the owner decided to geld him, because he did not gait (icelandic) so he was not breeding material. after the horse was gelded, his herding instincts went wacko. he would not leave the mares alone, wether under saddle or free in a herd. he eventually was put down because of it.

horses are wierd animals ;)

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Hmmmm, I'm thinking of all the times my mare farted in my face as I lovingly brushed her tail, pooped on me while I picked out her feet, slapped me in the face with her tail as I removed the mud from her legs...surely a little zap now and then would only be sweet, appropriate justice, yes? ;)

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It seems a lot of people have passed judgment on using shock collars for animal training. It seems like most people think they can do better training dogs and horses without shock collars but I have heard the same thing from many people who I have hunted pheasants with.

As it turns out, the dogs trained without shock collars are not much fun to hunt behind because they are ill behaved and more often then not ruin the hunt.

I use shock collars on my dogs and my friends who do not use them on their dogs prefer to hunt behind my dogs. You can't force a dog to be a great hunting dog but when you use a shock collar you can train a dog to hunt perfectly. With the use of a shock collars you can get better results in half the time. It seems like this fact might get me labeled lazy because I took the more efficient way to train my dogs.

It is my bet that those dead set against shock collars have a different opinion on what is a perfectly trained dog or horse. It is my bet that those who successfully train with shock collars have on average better trained animals. It is my bet that my dogs are as happy as any of the dogs trained without collars.

Now with all that being said, I would like to see people be honest with their responses when it comes to using shock collars on horses. I have a mule I am considering using my collars on and I would like to visit with someone on the use of collars who does not get overly emotional.

I am fully aware that there are people out there that should not use shock collars; these are the same people that shouldn't have children. So let?s agree that shock collars need to be used with responsibility and discuss the potential uses of a shock collar.

If I could get my mule to behave half as well as my dogs I would be a happy man.

Is there any reason why a shock collar will not work as well on a horse or a mule as it does on a dog?

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Is there any reason why a shock collar will not work as well on a horse or a mule as it does on a dog?

IMO, no. The success of the outcome will depend on the animal itself, how it is presented with the right thing to do and most importantly, how the negative "wrong thing to do" is presented and/or enforced. Myself, I think I would use a shock collar as a last resort. There are too many training methods out there that *do* work for me to try a shock collar first.

Dogs, and hunting dogs in particular, I can absolutely see the benefits of using it as a training tool, especially in the scenarios presented. I'm not sure I can see where the same amount of immediate combined with long-distance response would be needed for any equine unless the situation was lethally dangerous for the handler.

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IMO, no. The success of the outcome will depend on the animal itself, how it is presented with the right thing to do and most importantly, how the negative "wrong thing to do" is presented and/or enforced. Myself, I think I would use a shock collar as a last resort. There are too many training methods out there that *do* work for me to try a shock collar first.

Dogs, and hunting dogs in particular, I can absolutely see the benefits of using it as a training tool, especially in the scenarios presented. I'm not sure I can see where the same amount of immediate combined with long-distance response would be needed for any equine unless the situation was lethally dangerous for the handler.

I think that you can use an e-collar on anything and anyone, even children, if you have the knowledge to use one properly.

I think those collars should not be sold to the general public, only to trainers, or require some classes on how to use them.

Our local bird dog club uses them to train their dogs, so do the herding trainers, because both work their dogs from far away and the collars are used as a tap on the shoulder, on a dog that knows what it is wanted of them, as a help with the training, to get the dog's attention, which the beep does long before any level of shock is used.

There are ten levels of shock and even on the strongest, if you put it on your arm, it is not even half as strong as touching a hot wire by mistake.

I don't know what kind of collar that stallion had on, to "make it drop to it's knees". :twitch:

We use the e-collar as an aversive, to shock a dog, when we do rattlesnake proofing and even then, all the dogs do, even the littlest ones, is barely jump, enough to not want to get close to the snakes any more, but they are not jumping out of their skin and flopping around like a fish at the end of a line, those collars just don't shock that much. [surrender]

I have never seen them used on a horse, just seen the ads and the trouble with that again is that most people really don't have the knowledge and timing to be using those collars.

I heard of someone trying to get their horse to quit cribbing and shocked it so the horse though the water bucked was doing it and would not drink. Not good.

If you want to use one of those collars, do go learn first how they can be used, as an aversive, or as an extension of your voice/long leash and use it properly.

Depending on them, like depending on a leash or any other training tool too much just means that you are not a good enough trainer, as the goal is to have a trained animals that doesn't need tools to stay trained.

If you keep needing a leash, you can't really herd or hunt with your dogs.

Many top trainers before e-collars got their dogs trained well without them. :winking:

If you use a collar, be sure what your goal is and use it sparingly and in the right place and time. :smilie:

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I think e-collars are the 'method of choice' for stall kickers and trailer kickers.

For all of you 'holy-er than thou' 'perfect' non-horse trainers that think you know more than anyone else -- I hope you never have a horse that cripples itself and has to be put down because it kicked a stall wall just wrong. I've seen it happen and I'll tke the shock collar any day over any and all of the alternatives.

With a shock collar, you can 'cure' such behavior without the whipping and beating I have seen some owners resort to and still fail to stop the behavior. How much more preferable is it to hit a little button 2 or 3 times and have the horse blame the behavior and not the person?

As for 'training' stallions with one -- well, those people are evidently not qualified to train one the right way.

But, for kickers and 'new' cribbers -- I think they are great. I also think that both kickers and cribbers should have their background and stabling conditions looked at. While the shock collar may stop the behavior, kicking and cribbing can start because of too little exercise or too little hay and fiber are being fed, ulcers and other management problems exist. These should also be addressed and not have the person just focus on the problem. These are usually common problems NOT found with good management. The problem is, the management can be corrected (as it is when a horse changes hands) and the problem persistes. So, it would still be my method of choice to address these problems.

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