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All Opinnions Needed... Christian Issues

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i would like to know christain and non-christian veiws on "God the Father", the "Son of God" and what the "Holy Spirit" is.... is there a such thing as these? im just trying to think through and find out what i belive if i believe at all... i have what i call forced faith/religon... my parents tell me what i should belive how should believe it and all that crap buit yeah... its not real at all to me. i tend to be a rebel i bet that if i wasnt forced id know what i beleive... i know that what everyone writes is opinnions but yeah... im supposed to right a paper on what i belive about go and the three forms of him but the truth is im not really sure what i belive im not sure there is a god...

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I was raised Episcopalian and when I hit my teenage years I stopped going to church. I am now 56 years old and have been searching for what I believe in for most of my life. I still come back to God.

But, I believe we are all apart of the universe and we each have a purpose no matter how small. You ask us to explain God, the Holy Spirit, etc. Everyone is going to give you a different answer becauseall of us look at God differently. If you want the book version of the trinity, that's easy. There is God, his son Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

You have to search yourself to find out what these things mean to you.

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My beliefs change. Most often I believe my own made up thing that seems to make the most sense to me. That there is spirits for everything, spirits as in good and bad. For example, if a pet is really sick, I will ask the spirits of health to heal my pet and the spirits of illness to take their sickness off my pet. Or like when we get wind storms I ask the wind spirits to please not blow the huge trees over onto my barn roof, once was enough please! I also ask the spirits of trees to make their fellow trees around my barn strong, and will ask the spirits of destruction to spare my barn. I know it sounds absolutely silly (especially when written out lmao), but it works for me.

Most of the time I know that there isnt any higher beings/power of any kind. That is what really feels right and true to me 95% of the time.

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I'm not quite grasping what your question is exactly. Are you asking if we believe in God?

I don't. I was raised Catholic and sort of like how somebody brought up in Open Debate (psst that probably would've been a better place to put this), I asked too many stinkin' questions and I've always been a skeptic. While I like reading about different religions, I do not believe in spiritual anything. Not heaven, karma, none of it.

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I'm not quite grasping what your question is exactly. Are you asking if we believe in God?

I don't. I was raised Catholic and sort of like how somebody brought up in Open Debate (psst that probably would've been a better place to put this), I asked too many stinkin' questions and I've always been a skeptic. While I like reading about different religions, I do not believe in spiritual anything. Not heaven, karma, none of it.

just asking what others think those things are... i know everyoine is going to say differnt things but i just want to se what others have to say and idk if those things are real i probably have a bette understanding... but mostly i wanna see what others belive

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I believe there is a God.

I have been raised as a Christian, and now I accept it openly as my religion. The reason why is because through faith, personal trials, and my own exploration of the "truth" I found my believes are solid. I find God, the Son of God Jesus, and the Holy Spirit something extremely hard to fathom or even wrap my mind around but when I read scripture it connects the pieces.

I know I'm opening a can of worms, but I find it so hard to believe that we evolved from micro organisms without a higher entity creating the design. I think of the complexity of the human body, have you ever closed your fingers and thought about it? There is no reason why God could not have used Science to create life and the earth.

I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to shove my believes down anyone's throat. That is not my intent when writing this, but I do encourage you to seek out the answers yourself. Reading other opinion's is great and all, but it's a personal quest of what you accept or not. When writing on your paper, write the truth. Develop your thoughts and feelings and write them out on paper, even if you aren't sure about them.

I was encouraged to read a book called The Case For Christ about a journalist who became determined to prove God didn't exist. It is an awesome book that follows his journey through tangible clues and hints and in the end allows you to draw your own conclusion. If your fascinated by religion or seeking your own beliefs it a really good read.

I wish you the best! [smiley Wavey]

(Edited for clarity)

Edited by Running_Free

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Well, to start with I am a Christian.

I was raised in the Lutheran Church since birth. after Confirmation I was no longer 'required' by my parents to go to church it was up to me, sometimes I went, most times not.

As a young adult I really began questioning 'why?' and had major doubts. I married a non-Christian and didn't go to church for ten years except to have my children baptized. The older I got, the more I felt something was missing in my life. When my daughter was born, I when back to the church I went to in elementary school, it was like 'going home', it felt so right and even some of the older people that were there when I was a child still went there and remembered me after 15 years. I have been through some rough times in my life and I find that God is always there to comfort me and help me through.

I also had a problem trying to 'wrap my brain' around the concept of the Triune God, so I asked my Pastor to explain it in simple terms.

Here are 2 examples that help to understand it.

1) the apple - It is an apple, but it has 3 parts the core (creator, seeds), the flesh (substance, nutrition) and the skin (inviting & protection). Each part has a purpose, but together they make 1 apple.

2) Man - My father is 1 man, but has different names according to his role. He is a father (to my brother and I) , a son (to his mom & dad) and a friend (to everyone) depending on who his relationship is with. But he is still only 1 man.

Hope that helped explain a bit for you.

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I do believe in God or a presence of goodness,rightness and light. I have a little more of a problem with the concept of the trinity which is what I think you are asking. I think there have been a lot of good spiritual teachers sent to us including Jesus, Buddha, etc. Do I think you have to be christian to get to heaven ? Nope. Recently , I have been reading a lot about Shumei,Buddhism, Unity Church,Eckbert Tolle and some of the writings by the people involved in the Secret.I recently had a blessing by a practitioner of Shumei and it was a powerful and unique experience. I think all people should read,question and think for themselves before commiting to a specific religion. Best wishes on your seeking!

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Running Free, "Case for Christ" is exactly what she needs to read...great book!

Also try Rick Warren's book "A Purpose Driven Life"

I spent a lot of years in a Baptist church with a Pastor who made the Bible come alive for me.

His sermons were Scripture-filled, he was a Historian and included the customs and mores of Biblical times in his sermons which helped his congregation understand and make sense of Scripture and give purpose to the Living Word.

The Trinity is one, but also,

God the Father, Creator of everything

Christ is God in the flesh, a man like us, except without sin.

When he died for us, he became the Holy Spirit.

Although there is Scripture where the Holy Spirit is present in the OT.

I believe in the Trinity through Faith and because I have applied Christ's teachings to my life and experienced how it works firsthand in others.

I know by faith these things to be true.

Christ came to set us free from the old Covenant, not to enslave us with laws but give us free-will.

Christians of today are under the New Covenant.

That is not to say the Old Testament is not important to us as the word of God, for to understand the NT we must understand the OT.

To live one's life by what a religion mandates and to live by Faith in Christ and free-will are world's apart.

IMHO religions create resentment in some of their followers because their man-made Doctrine does not ring true to the person truly seeking God.

Man has distorted Scripture to fit their needs and agenda.

The hypocrisy and judgement of man in most Church's creates problems for those seeking God, it turns them sour on religion so they turn their back on God thinking that is what God is.

I promise you, that is not from God!

God is love and forgiveness, not condemning, Christians are mandated to be also.

His arms are open to you until the second you take your last breath.

I suggest, if you are truly seeking God, read the Bible or A Case For Christ.

Once you have accepted Christ by Faith, find a Scriptural Church with sound Christian Doctrine. You will know.

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I had "forced religion" as a child. I think any child raised in a religious household does. You aren't given the choice to make up your own mind, you are made to practice what your parents do.

That said, not having been a practicing Christian (in the sense of attending church etc.) for 15 or more years, when asked what I believe? I believe what I was taught as a child. I believe it all. Do I practice? No. Am I very aware of the repercusions that I will suffer for not practicing? Yes. It is still my choice, and likely I have made it BECAUSE I wasn't allowed to as a child.

I take offense at those who tell me I'm wrong in my beliefs though, as they are mine to have.

As to your question, all 3 beings are the same being, yet they are also seperate. God the Father represents He who created the heaven and earth, He who sent his Son, Jesus. God the Son speaks, of course, of Jesus, he who was sent to cleanse our sins. God the Holy Spirit is the whole package, he who we pray to. In reality though, they are all the same. It is just different names used to define the same being as represented to us over the years.

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I was raised pretty much the same as Spots. And I stopped attending church for quite some time. Then I started to attend again off and on. I went to church if I felt like it, which wasn't very often. I never got involved anymore than to show up and sit in the pew on Sunday morning.

Then I found a church I REALLY liked and things changed. The pastor makes things so clear, in everyday language.

Many of us have tried in some form or fashion to "understand" religion and perhaps we even think there is something we can "do" (pray, do nice things, go to church, try to be good, etc.) to bring us closer to God.

Actually it's the reverse - it's God that wants to be close to us. All we have to do is reach out to him and accept his grace. He freely gives us his grace as a gift through His Son.

Sometimes we complicate things. His love for us unconditional - is as a father to his children.

Edited by Forever in Blue Genes

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I really think this on the right place since your not really wanting a debate but advice. I am a Christian and I really think that people have given you a great idea of what the trinity is. Don't let anyone chase you away from your faith. People tend to be very zealous in pushing what they think you should do but you have to find out who God is to you. The way you do that is to read your bible. It has to be your relationship and each persons idea of God is different. I hope you find what your looking for and I think you said you had to do a paper. Good luck with it. I hope you do well.

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I had "forced religion" as a child. I think any child raised in a religious household does. You aren't given the choice to make up your own mind, you are made to practice what your parents do.

That said, not having been a practicing Christian (in the sense of attending church etc.) for 15 or more years, when asked what I believe? I believe what I was taught as a child. I believe it all. Do I practice? No. Am I very aware of the repercusions that I will suffer for not practicing? Yes. It is still my choice, and likely I have made it BECAUSE I wasn't allowed to as a child.

I take offense at those who tell me I'm wrong in my beliefs though, as they are mine to have.

As to your question, all 3 beings are the same being, yet they are also seperate. God the Father represents He who created the heaven and earth, He who sent his Son, Jesus. God the Son speaks, of course, of Jesus, he who was sent to cleanse our sins. God the Holy Spirit is the whole package, he who we pray to. In reality though, they are all the same. It is just different names used to define the same being as represented to us over the years.

i dont think you are wrong at all i really like what you wrote.

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ok so if i was to illistrate the holy spirit, god the father and jesus the son (i tend to be visual). could i use like a gift?

wrapper- the holy spirit

box- god

jesus- gods gift to us

three parts but one package?

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Easiest way I can think of to explain this:

The trinity is, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Three entities - one being. It sounds impossible, but when you're talking about the most powerful being ever...nothing is impossible.

I hope you come to believe the truth in your heart regardless of your parents pushing. It sounds like they are trying too hard to "train up a child in the way he should go." They are conserned for your spiritual wellbeing, but instead are damaging it by 'forcing' thier beliefs on you. Come to the Lord on your own, Know Him for yourself. They don't call it a "personal relationship with Christ" for nothing. PM me if you'd to talk ok?

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Easiest way I can think of to explain this:

The trinity is, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Three entities - one being. It sounds impossible, but when you're talking about the most powerful being ever...nothing is impossible.

I hope you come to believe the truth in your heart regardless of your parents pushing. It sounds like they are trying too hard to "train up a child in the way he should go." They are conserned for your spiritual wellbeing, but instead are damaging it by 'forcing' thier beliefs on you. Come to the Lord on your own, Know Him for yourself. They don't call it a "personal relationship with Christ" for nothing. PM me if you'd to talk ok?

i know they are thrying to train me up in the way i should go, i just dont think i should eat sleep and breathe religion. i found a church that i really really like and im not allowed to go there because i live in a dictatership lol i guess im just venting. but i wish i had little rules so thst i can act on my concenese. and learn and grow from my mistakes... im frustrated with them 18 years old and i still dont know what i belive... i cant make my own choices and i feel trapped

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I was raised by an Atheist father, but never did feel he was right. As a young girl my first act of defiance was to dress up every Sunday and catch the bus to Sunday school and Church. I was never baptized though, as my father wouldn't allow it. I spent most of my life questioning and half heartedly looking for a Church. As the years went by I developed my own beliefs, which I have not changed even after I found a Church to belong to. I joined the Catholic Church because I do believe that the Catholic Church was given to us by God through Jesus.

My interpretation of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit is that they are one and the same, yet seperate. Much as your father is also a son. The Holy Spirit I don't see as a seperate being exactly, but as the soul/heart/spirit that belongs to each of them, each of us, the unifyer.

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As to your question, all 3 beings are the same being, yet they are also seperate. God the Father represents He who created the heaven and earth, He who sent his Son, Jesus. God the Son speaks, of course, of Jesus, he who was sent to cleanse our sins. God the Holy Spirit is the whole package, he who we pray to. In reality though, they are all the same. It is just different names used to define the same being as represented to us over the years.

I agree with this per my beliefs.

God is all 3.

How I found them? I found Jesus through studying the Bible and listening to Joyce Meyers speak about his life and all that he has done for me. That was tangible for me. I could grasp a "person" who died a most horrific death so that my sins might be washed away. I watched the DVD Jesus 2000. That helped me alot to connect.

Then,..through understanding Jesus and all that he had done and why,..I discovered the Father,..God. I didn't and still don't quite grasp him,..to me he just ,...is,...and it was through worshipping Him in church,..eyes closed,..music playing,..head back,..arms spread wide,..I discovered the Holy Spirit. I can't even explain the feeling the first time I felt the Holy Spirit. I cried. Tears just streamed down my face and this feeling of humility came over me,..all of my worries were set aside and I was just filled with an incredible feeling of ,...peace.

This was over a 6 song period. About 45 minutes of solid worship,..with the pastor praising God and worshipping with us,..and the notes of music being held for long periods of time until the light shone through. I can remember being quite sure I wouldn't feel anything and being stunned when the tears came. I came there bound and determined to prove that this feeling would NOT come to me. I tried to NOT feel it. I couldn't.

Sounds hokey but that is the only way I can explain the Holy Spirit. Tingling,..warmth,..relaxation,..and absolute unawareness of anything other than that feeling around me and in me.Security.

In summary,..Jesus came first,..the man,..to whom I am grateful for his sacrifice and humbled by his gift to me. Then came the awareness that he was resurrected and connected to a force that simply made me want to bow my head and respect,..like a real father. Then came the emotion of the Holy Spirit.

It seems so clear to me in my head yet it is so hard to describe.

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My beliefs change. Most often I believe my own made up thing that seems to make the most sense to me. That there is spirits for everything, spirits as in good and bad. For example, if a pet is really sick, I will ask the spirits of health to heal my pet and the spirits of illness to take their sickness off my pet. Or like when we get wind storms I ask the wind spirits to please not blow the huge trees over onto my barn roof, once was enough please! I also ask the spirits of trees to make their fellow trees around my barn strong, and will ask the spirits of destruction to spare my barn. I know it sounds absolutely silly (especially when written out lmao), but it works for me.

I LOVE your outlook Audrey!

As for me? I believe in a higher power. Thats all i can really say. Something that makes more sense to me is the thought of Mother Nature being the higher power... after all she supposedly controls the weather, the seasons, etc.

I don't really know... there are things that cant be explained, and thats what drives me to think there is something higher than us, but not necessarily God or Jesus. There are too many missing links in their stories for me to believe whole-heartedly. Plus, i strongly believe in evolution...theres way too much scientific proof to contradict it in my eyes.

I was raised a Christian, but we stopped going to church pretty early in my life. I'm currently attending a Catholic college, and a required course is Theology and some other religious courses. I hate having religion forced on me, and even though i know the professors are not TRYING to do so... it seems like it. (This is my last semester there, and I'm dropping the class tomorrow because its not required at the school im transferring to.)

Theres my outlook for you to ponder. lol

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It is interesting to me to sit back and evaluate the situation. My brother, raised much the same as I, is almost athiest in his beliefs now. I have observed, read, watched much of the stuff he has over the years, and I find that there is nothing else that settles right with me, so my heart believes what we were taught.

What brought it home was when watching the movie, The Passion of the Christ, one night. I had watched it once, when it first came out, and couldn't stomache it again until somewhat recently. I was watching alone, again horrified at what I had always known, but never really thought about. I was interupted by someone who had never had the opportunities I had as a child, and they laughed at the movie. I was livid. So angry it surprised me. Obviously, it was more than a theory to me.

My mother has always told me that religion and beliefs are private. Some people wish to share theirs with others, some don't. It is not for us to question others, and it is not for others to question us.

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God the Father= God

God the Son =Jesus

The Holy Spirit=The Risen Jesus

You will get a good grade if you write your paper exactly as you stated it here in your original post. You don't HAVE to have a formulated belief, Not everyone your age has it all figured out yet so if you don't have one, don't fake it or try to formulate one off the cuff.

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I was taught actually in church as a child that the Trinity concept might descend from the Pagan idea of child/adult woman / hag that was a common belief back then . Maybe one of the Pagans might correct me if I haven't expressed this exactly right. It has been a long time. We were told that incorporating this idea into Christianity helped convert Pagans to Christian.For me ,whoever compared the Trinity to an apple helped me with the concept. Anyway.the things taught in Church now often have little to do with the teachings and beliefs of the early Christians. You have to explore the Gnostic Christians or even Jewish teachings to get that.Even the Bible has been heavily edited by man and is subject to mans mistakes. I was taught that in church also. Not all the denominations teach or believe the same things.

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I am a Pagan, for want of a better term. I was raised Methodist but never felt comfortable calling myself a Christian. I began searching for answers back in the early 1980s.

Paganism isn't a religion, it's a term applied to many faiths.

One important thing to remember is that Paganism isn't a religion any more than Monotheism is a religion. Both Paganism and Monotheism are collective terms used to group very different religions that happen to share a few important classifying traits in common. For example, Monotheism includes the all the various forms of Judaism, Christianity and Islam (and many minor faiths). The beliefs of the individual religions grouped under the term "Pagan" probably vary even more than (say) Reform Judaism differs from Shiite Islam. As Wicca is currently the most well-known modern Pagan religion, many people tend to assume that all modern Pagans share the specific beliefs of Wicca (e.g. belief in a God and Goddess, the eight festival "wheel of the year," the Wiccan Rede, etc.). That assumption is simply incorrect. People who make that assumption generally end up very confused when they encounter some of the many modern Pagan religions that are not based on Wicca.

Kim mentioned the Pagan "Trinity" which is called the Triquetra. From Kim:

I was taught actually in church as a child that the Trinity concept might descend from the Pagan idea of child/adult woman / hag that was a common belief back then . Maybe one of the Pagans might correct me if I haven't expressed this exactly right. It has been a long time

Here are the three most common meanings of the Triquetra.

All of the various interpretations agree on a culmination of thee parts. For example, early Christian understanding views the symbols as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Whereas, a more pagan school of thought sees the trinity knot as the drawing of the three inherent feminine powers: Mother, Crone, and Maiden. Still another understanding can be found in a more metaphysical arena where the three corners represent mind, body and spirit.

Mother, Crone and Maiden is the accepted earliest meaning of the Triquetra. As Kim said, in an attempt to convert Pagans to Christianity many of their holidays and symbols were converted, and the Triquetra is one.

HTTY & GBTUSA

BUMPER

For example, early Christian understanding views the symbols as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Whereas, a more pagan school of thought sees the trinity knot as the drawing of the three inherent feminine powers: Mother, Crone, and Maiden.

Still another understanding can be found in a more metaphysical arena where the three corners represent mind, body and spirit.

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I'm not quite grasping what your question is exactly. Are you asking if we believe in God?

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Good luck getting an answer. This one is 8 years old and most of these people don't come here any more.

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I believe there is a  spirit out there , Christians it's god, other cultures have their own versions of god etc.. however I don't believe in the church for  the ones I went   to growing up  were made  up of people  who feel they are righteous, yet they can commit  sins, but the others face their wrath. Example now days the catholic church, some of their priests that have sinned against the children.

 

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As far as I can tell, you are having most trouble with the Christian trinity.  It IS a difficult concept because our human minds are trying to understand God.  

Two analogies that I use for my catechism kids:  One, think of the trinity like water in three forms: ice, liquid, steam.  All three are water.  Another, more theological point of view is to consider how the spirit is described in the bible.  In the Old Testament, the spirit is the breath of God, who breathed life into man.  That life is the Holy Spirit, no less an expression of God than Jesus walking on earth or God the Father, who spoke to Abraham and Moses.  I have also heard of the Holy Spirit as the love between God the Father and God the Son.  

Everything we believe as Christians is inherited from the Jewish faith.  All of our traditions can find their basis in the Old Testament.  The bible is essential, but so are the traditions.  After all, the first Christians had only the oral tradition for the first 60 plus years after Jesus ascended into heaven.  What traditions?  Look at Easter, for example.  Passover was the celebration of the night of the Last Supper.  This is why they gathered.  They were remembering, as Jews, their people's flight from Egypt and the lamb's blood on the lintel caused the "Pass Over" of Jewish households from the worst plague of all (the killing of the firstborn sons).  The Passover tradition of eating the lamb is why the Apostles (who were Jewish, as was Jesus) understood why Jesus spoke of His sacrifice as the being the Lamb of God.  Also, that's a reference to the Old Testament story of Abraham and Issac.  The links between the Old and New Testaments are called typology.  Even Adam and Eve give as the basis for the story of Mary.  Eve said "no" to God when she chose the forbidden fruit.  Mary, whose consent was in fact essential, said "yes" when the angel came to her ("May it be done....").  If she had said "no"?  Well, that would have been bad.  

Now, you are saying, but I don't believe in all the bible stories as written, especially Adam and Eve.  Neither does my religion, and we were the ones that decided which books belonged in the bible!  

How to understand the bible.  It is not a book.  It is a library.  In a library, there are different types of writings.  Again, relying on the Jewish understanding, the first Christians understood that the Old Testament was written based on oral traditions and over a period of over 4,000 years.  There are songs, poems, historical  accounts of the Hebrew people, and allegorical writings.  Nowhere in this library are scientific writings, nor are the historical accounts (Old Testament) always pleasant or suggestive in how we live our lives.  The recorded history was important to show the continuous lines of kings.  The Hebrew people had many trials and did not recognize their own dignity and that of marriage for love until the story of Tobit.  The New Testament has written accounts of Jesus' time on earth, letters from the first bishops to guide early Christian communities, and the more mystical writings by St. John in Revelations.  .  

My religion, which was founded 2,000 years ago, understands these stories based on the understanding of the Apostles and early Church Fathers.  The story of Adam and Eve, for example, is allegorical.  It teaches us great truths in a story form.  From a scientific point of view, at some point in our development as humans, we could know and contemplate the divine.  From God's point of view, He created us to know and love Him, of our own free will.  Just like Adam and Eve, we can freely choose to to love God, or reject Him.  The point of crossover between innocent sin-free (animals are not capable of sin) animals and human beings is simply that capacity to know and love God.  We know that animals have feelings and strong bonds.  We know their pain and suffering is real (thus, we must good stewards of the earth and animals-which we are failing miserably at right now...).  We know that they are very much like ourselves in so many other ways.  

Faith is a gift, but one that must be nurtured.  Study God.  Read His bible, and seek guidance in your studies.  FInd someone to help you along.  That is how to know Him.  And, please, whatever you do, don't start with Genesis, if you pick up a bible, LOL!  It is a library that will not make sense if read straight through (would you start with books on aarvarks in the library?).  SInce you want to understand Christianity, start with reading about those very first Christians.  The ones who became our first martyrs, saints, and bishops.  Begin with the New Testament.  The Acts of the Apostles is the best place to begin.  Then, the Letters, then the Gospels.  

Do not be afraid of the writings of the most clever theologians.  Do not fear science.  In fact, some of our greatest and most clever researchers and scientists have been Christians (mostly Jesuits, but not all, Mendel was Brother Mendel...etc...).  Fearing science is the biggest mistake of all.  Learning something new about our world should never be feared.  After all, it's like taking a peek at God's own desk.  

Edited by little cow
clarity

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