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mrsimps

Chestnut Or Sorrel

Sorrel (ee) or Chestnut (ee)   

62 members have voted

  1. 1. Picture 1

    • Chestnut
      43
    • Sorrel
      19
    • Palomino
      0
  2. 2. Picture 2

    • Chestnut
      31
    • Sorrel
      30
    • Palomino
      1
  3. 3. Picture 3

    • Chestnut
      18
    • Sorrel
      26
    • Palomino
      18


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OK. It's ready enough. talk to me!!!

Rainy day and I'm bored. We were chatting over on the Color Question - Bay to Bay? thread and Journeysgirl revisited the topic regarding Sorrel and Chestnut and AQHA's definition of those color.

Please look at these photo's and make your choices in my poll.

Picture One 1

myte1.jpg

Picture 2

chestnut_horse.jpg

Picture 3

rockelle1.jpg

Quoted from AQHA web site

Chestnut

Body color dark red or brownish-red; mane and tail usually dark red or brownish-red but may be flaxen.

Sorrel

Body color reddish or copper-red; mane and tail usually same color as body, but may be flaxen. The most common color of American Quarter Horses.

With today's genetic testing we now know that there is no difference between a sorrel and a chestnut genetically. As stated on the other thread, it's the equivalent of specifying a dark bay vs light bay with different names. AQHA is slow to update "colors" in their handbook but relatively recent break throughs in genetic testing have allowed Perlinos and Cremellos to be registered when previously you could only register them in the APHA registry.

With the definitions above I can simplify Sorrel and Chestnut in my head. Sorrel is light and Chestnut is dark but what about those horses in the middle? The middle of the road reddish horse?

Is this confusion worth it when it would be a simple matter to reduce those two colors into one?

If AQHA did rule to only represent one of those names in accordance to how they are genetically (identical), which color should they go with?

Although I love my sorrels I think Chestnut should be the standard term because it agrees with other registries that only recognize Chestnut. It would eliminate confusion when talking "cross breed" with people.

Edited by mrs

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I agree with you mrs. IF they make a choice, I would hope they will go with Chestnut. (Would it be weird if they just went with "red"? I think that would make the old cowboy types happy, as that's what they call them annyways, right? "Go get that red horse"... or "Yea, that old red so and so tossed me again...") [ROTFL]

But Sorrel to me is a lighter orangey red horse with the same or lighter mane & tail...

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I put Chestnut for the first and sorrel for the other two.

To me, genetics or not, a Chestnut is the same color red all over. Mane and tail are the same color as the body.

A sorrel will shade lighter towards the extremeties or has a mane and tail a different color than the rest of the body.

It may be the light in the picture or dirt, but the second horse has a darker tail than the rest of his body.

I had a Haflinger that had a blond mane and forelock but red and black in his tail to the point that from a distance it looked dark brown with a few white hairs. I called him sorrel.

They changed that registry's definition to all Haflingers are Chestnuts, it used to be all were sorrels. Go figure cuz most Hafies have blond manes and tails so, now they register those as Chestnuts with blonde manes and tails right on the papers.

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A former AQHA executive member told me once that there are clear chestnuts, that is reddish with highlights of tan or brown, clear sorrels, that reflect as pure red, with or without gold highlights and many inbetween, that you can call either way.

So, you take your pick and call your horse whatever you want, all are accepted.

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A former AQHA executive member told me once that there are clear chestnuts, that is reddish with highlights of tan or brown, clear sorrels, that reflect as pure red, with or without gold highlights and many inbetween, that you can call either way.

So, you take your pick and call your horse whatever you want, all are accepted.

By how I interpret what you said both Picture 1 & 2 would be sorrels? Because that's what I would call them both. A Cherry Sorrel for #1 and and "orangee" sorrel for #2. Only #3 would be chestnut to me.

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Growing up, I never used the word sorrel. All sorrel/chestnut horses were chestnut in our barn and in our circles. I always thought sorrel was a stock horse word. Now that I am older, and live in ranch country, I hear it a lot. But to me they are all still chestnut. If they are not genetically different, I guess it is a matter of preference. :confused0024:

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AHA would refer to all three as chestnut. THEY simplified it a long time ago.

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By the definition from AQHA, I placed them Chestnut, sorrel, sorrel. BUT, when I first got into horses *cough* some time ago. If I went with what I was taught, that it went Sorrel, sorrel, chestnut. I was always told that no matter what shade of red the horse was, if the mane and tail were the same color then it was a sorrel. If the mane and tail were lighter then it was chestnut.

I'm with Mrs. I would hope they would go with chestnut to simplify "cross breed" talk. But a red horse will always be a sorrel to me.

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AHA would refer to all three as chestnut. THEY simplified it a long time ago.

And I grew up riding Arabs. (still do) :happy0203: Maybe that is why it is no big deal to me?

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All red horses have been sorrel to me until I heard of dark sorrels being referred to as liver chestnuts. Out here where we mostly have ranchstock, I have never heard of a red horse called a chestnut, only sorrel. I think most educated horsepeople realize there is no difference so I don't mind if the registry does not change.

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When i learned it, sorrel was a more "western" term and chestnut an "eastern" one. Applied more to discipline than region however.

All "red" horses are sorrels to me. The only thing i ever called a chestnut was the dark liver chestnuts.

Since they are genetically the same thing i don't care what anyone calls them but i do think the AQHA needs to settle on one.

Bumper

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To me,

This is a sorrel:

070804Beau01.jpg

This is chestnut:

040609NewHorse02.jpg

This is also chestnut but is darker in summer; some call liver chestnut:

100404MeKatie02.jpg

This is a palomino:

102306Tater02.jpg

And this is a color that I don't think the AQHA recognizes (although they might now):

052406Karma02.jpg

I know the BLM doesn't recognize it; they call her a chestnut. This is the same filly as above, as a foal:

070805CSMares07.jpg

And her 3 weeks later:

072005Karma02.jpg

I *know* genetically what color she is ... but what would AQHA call her, do you suppose? A chestnut?

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I guess the vernacular for sorrel and chestnut will never be straight; here's the definitions from Merriam Webster Online Dictionary:

This one is for chestnut: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sorrel

This one for sorrel and emphasives a lighter colored horse: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sorrel

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Yeah, I think Kharma would be a chestnut although I think AQHA is starting to recognize that silver *does* exist occasionaly in the breed.

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Yeah, I think Kharma would be a chestnut although I think AQHA is starting to recognize that silver *does* exist occasionaly in the breed.

I think I see a few advertised now and again as "silver" but not sure if they just think they are silver or have been tested. Karma's been tested.

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It said "acknowldeged in 2002, silver gene in AQHA" on this website. I know if I thought I had a silver horse I would get it tested before I advertised it!!!

I don't think there's something to check on the papers for it though.

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Pictures can lie, be a little bit different than in person.

Here is the color chart for the AQHA, with the 17 currently approved colors:

http://www.aqha.com/association/download/p...rkingsChart.pdf

[ROTFL]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the last horse pictured as a sorrel the same horse as the first one for chestnut??????

eta: seriously... that is just cracking me up!!! AQHA doesn't even know for sure!!!

Edited by mrs

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Looking real close at the first 2 horses at the top of this post...I could swear they are the same horse, in different lighting.

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I've always used the term chestnut. I've never called a horse "sorrel" in my life. All three horses are chestnuts in my book.

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I used to believe sorrel was a dark red horse, and chestnut a light red horse... this is what i was taught on my 4H judging team. :rolleye0014:

But after taking a genetics class, they are all genetically chestnuts to me.

As for the first two horses being the same- look at their face markings. The first horse's blaze goes into the nostrils, and the second horse's marking thins out in between the nostrils. Plus, the first horse has a diamond shaped top to the blaze, and the second horse's marking doesnt.

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when i was growing up on the ranch a hundred years ago, sorrel was the color word for the western crowd and chestnut was the english crowd.

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I was always under the impression that Western people say sorrel and English people say chestnut. I knew there was some minute difference, but I always say chestnut. I would call the first two chestnuts and the last one a chestnut with a flaxen mane and tail or a liver chestnut with flaxen mane and tail.

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Oooo... sorry [surrender]

The page finally loaded for me.

Youre talking about the second example for sorrel and the first example for chestnut, right? At a quick glance they do look the same, but zoomed in they have different facial & leg markings. Yet... they still look the same color, even zoomed in.

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I think the color difference in the first 3 is largely in the eye the individual. But I do think the first is definitely sorrel. I'm new this sorrel chestnut thing, is a horse with flaxen mane tail, considered a chestnut or a sorrel? The Rocky mountain horses with the chocolate color, I know are still a type of chestnut. I own 1 chestnut & 1 sorrel, the sorrel is lighter in color & the chestnut is darker with darker mane & tail. PD

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when i was growing up on the ranch a hundred years ago, sorrel was the color word for the western crowd and chestnut was the english crowd.

Yup.

Bumper

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