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Jayme_Alaska

Laying Down A Horse

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No and mine do not either but I do not have over 10,000 posts either. I have five horses on about 12 acres I do it all so if I am not riding them I maybe triming, cutting pasture, mending fence, draining & cleaning water troughs. So if i don't ride them for 12 hours I may work 12 hours to ride them. we all can't be just riders.

Yeah, but your screen name shows you just joining in January of 2009, mine shows me as joining in April of 2004 - over 5 years ago., Duh! :rolleye0014:

No you have just been banned before and get just about every thread you are involved in closed - Cool Rabbit have YOU ever had to change your screen name?

Nope, imagine that!

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I came into this thread not knowing anything about this particular horse's history.

I have a friend has a mare, I did a thread on this not to long ago, who bucks her off regularly. She is a witch who will do just so much for her owner then, when the feeling strikes, buck her off.

The horse KNOWS she can and has hospitalized her before. My friend can and has laid this horse down, not thrown, but laid her down as has the OP.

She is still bucking her off and still a hateful BIA. This particular horse is too old now to change her attitudes, (21) but I doubt even throwing her would change that.

My friend's excuse for her was balance, for years and years, it was her balance that made her buck. :rolleye0014:

Well, no, She bucked cuz she got away with it. The more she bucked the better she got at it.

Not saying that this is the thing with the OP's horse but I believe that it should be communicated to the horse that he is doing the wrong thing when he bucks. Bucking isn't an automatic response in an animal with balance problems. They could overreach, 4-beat, any of a number of different responses could happen from being off balance.

I agree that the bucking issue would be my priority. I would not want to be furthering any other part of his education until that issue was solved.

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To put in my two cents, I really think there is a trainer versus horse enthusiast dichotomy going on.

While I agree a good training program is important, and necessary for the OPs horse to confront the loping problem, I don't see why every minute spent with the horse has to be specific to that problem.

Yes, she shouldn't have had the bit in the mouth, or the saddle on the back. (as was dealt with in the first couple pages) But, a lot of experiences with horses are trial and error. She seems to have a good gauge of the horses personality, having some sort of trust, and with that trust, I'm sure she's able to fiddle around and experiment and see what neat things she can do with him, without fear that he's going to flip out and attack her.

I do lots of random things with my horses that don't really have a training purpose, but I enjoy doing them. Horses are supposed to be a hobby, not just a job. If you stick to a strict training program alllll the time, it can get a little tedious (for some, many people are perfectly content with this, and that's fine as well). However, there are those who enjoy spending time just experimenting and bonding.

If she were claiming that doing this was an integral part of her training regime, and dealing with the horse's loping issue, I would understand the disagreement happening here. I really only saw it as a "hey, look at the cool thing I did with my horse" type thread.

I don't know, maybe its just me, but I think that if you are enjoying experimenting and "desensitizing" as opposed to spending all that time riding, then go for it, and enjoy it. Not everyone needs to be an expert and you certainly don't have to figure out every exact dynamic of riding before you can enjoy it. Yes, learning and progression is important, but putting that aside to spend a little time experimenting isn't going to set back the horse's training, at most it will stall it a bit. (ahahha pun central)

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To put in my two cents, I really think there is a trainer versus horse enthusiast dichotomy going on.

While I agree a good training program is important, and necessary for the OPs horse to confront the loping problem, I don't see why every minute spent with the horse has to be specific to that problem.

Yes, she shouldn't have had the bit in the mouth, or the saddle on the back. (as was dealt with in the first couple pages) But, a lot of experiences with horses are trial and error. She seems to have a good gauge of the horses personality, having some sort of trust, and with that trust, I'm sure she's able to fiddle around and experiment and see what neat things she can do with him, without fear that he's going to flip out and attack her.

I do lots of random things with my horses that don't really have a training purpose, but I enjoy doing them. Horses are supposed to be a hobby, not just a job. If you stick to a strict training program alllll the time, it can get a little tedious (for some, many people are perfectly content with this, and that's fine as well). However, there are those who enjoy spending time just experimenting and bonding.

If she were claiming that doing this was an integral part of her training regime, and dealing with the horse's loping issue, I would understand the disagreement happening here. I really only saw it as a "hey, look at the cool thing I did with my horse" type thread.

I don't know, maybe its just me, but I think that if you are enjoying experimenting and "desensitizing" as opposed to spending all that time riding, then go for it, and enjoy it. Not everyone needs to be an expert and you certainly don't have to figure out every exact dynamic of riding before you can enjoy it. Yes, learning and progression is important, but putting that aside to spend a little time experimenting isn't going to set back the horse's training, at most it will stall it a bit. (ahahha pun central)

You have very, very good points, absolutely. I think that what most of us are responding to is that these tricks do not help the training process as most would think, and A LOT (not accusing the original poster of this) of people do this kind of thing INSTEAD of riding, training and learning useful methods, so do it because they are scared and avoiding riding their horses.

If that is all someone wants to do with their horses, no one here really cares. But I think people start taking issue when we hear things like "building trust" those of us that have answered (and they are ALL outstanding horsewomen) know that this is a buzzword for "i don't know what to do so I will do this, because it is all i CAN do"

I think there is a genuine effort from most of the posters (excluding myself, I have little patience for silly stuff like horse tricks) to warn the O.P. that she may be in the first stages of convincing herself her horse needs more "groundwork" and "trust building" exercises instead of consistent, quality, riding and training.

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Kojack and Spanish Walkin, you really miss the point and don't see the entire picture, or really read the gist of all the topics concerning this horse

If you want to lay down your horse, fine, but ask why you are doing it

Call me stupid, without imagination, but my prime purpose is to develope a good riding horse.

Were I an entertainer or a circus person, my focus would be different

This horse is being lunged with weights because he has a balance problem. The OP is unsure about loping him because he bucks at the lope. Kudos for the fact that she is willing to address the issue that this horse needs effective riding to make him a good saddle horse. This a a different goal from havng a horse with a bunch of entertainment tricks up his sleeve, far as goals go

There is also the training technique out there that advocates laying a horse down to make him more malable to training. One wonders if said trainer using weights and draw reins, sees this as another alternative to effective riding. Very natural , given the other posts to have this question in this case

Once you have good gaits , transititions, basic manovers on a horse such as side passing,turn on haunches turn on forehand, a horse willing to ride out alone, whether in the ring or on the trail, then if you feel he will benefit by teaching him to lay down, go for it

For myself, it remains the ultimate restraint, and something I think I good minded horse does not need, nor will it benefit him in becoming a reliable saddle and performance horse.

I have yet to see where any well know trainer, be it reining, pleasure or cowhorse, that reccomends the laying down of a horse as a procedure for each and every horse and part of a regular training program(I;m not including NR trainers in this group)

If you lay them all down, then how else do you differenciate from the good minded colts to the ones that need a mind fix?

I'm with Cheri, in that you will impress me much more with good flying changes, great body control, softeness, collection etc than if you lay your horse down

And , for the record, Kojack, I ride my horses, trim their feet, fix fences as needed, plus numerous other tasks that need doing.

They don't get it, Smilie. Maybe someday they will .... but as for now, they don't get it.

Oh well.

We do as good as we can do ... and when we learn better, we do better.

OH and Exes? Quite well said!

The OP has not been scolded or disrespected. I believe it was some newbie and another poster who did that to Bayfilly pretty much out of the blue, but I digress. The people who responded to this post with other than "GREAT!" "GOOD JOB!" "HOW COOL!" have just been around the block a few (hundred) more times.

Horse training is obviously not rocket science ... but they do have hearts and confidence issues and need relationships with us a whole lot more than they need 'bonds' or desensitized into robotic things, IMO.

Edited by quarterflash

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No you have just been banned before and get just about every thread you are involved in closed - Cool Rabbit have YOU ever had to change your screen name?

To everyone else, if you read from the begining (which I doubt) you realize that most of the snarkiness was directed at other snarkiness, specifically those coming from fast filly and that other one (some other poster who has since disappeared) everyone else is a little late to the game **cough, kojack, cough** and seem to just want to contnue the fight.

bully for you, you have 12 horses that obviously barely get ridden - whoopee. :rolleye0014:

Oh yeah and I am the snotty one, deal with it.

Never been banned on any site, thanks for that bit of inaccurate info.

The snarkiness was at the young lady as well, i didn't know there was a time table for posting, must be your rule and last but not least I have five horses on 12 acres.

So your entire post is inaccurate and I'm not surprised.

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Never been banned on any site, thanks for that bit of inaccurate info.

The snarkiness was at the young lady as well, i didn't know there was a time table for posting, must be your rule and last but not least I have five horses on 12 acres.

So your entire post is inaccurate and I'm not surprised.

eh, guess it shows how much i care.... :confused0024:

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eh, guess it shows how much i care.... :confused0024:

Or how you make encited comments for the enjoyment of you & others but that is the way of many here so so i understand and simply say enough of this also.

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Or how you make encited comments for the enjoyment of you & others but that is the way of many here so so i understand and simply say enough of this also.

I can guarantee you that I have never made an "encited" comment in my life. :indifferent:

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Forgive me...yesterday was a crabby/snarky day for me. But do NOT say that I "don't get" the post. I've trained horses before. I "get" it. I read this entire post. For me I don't feel there is much necessity in laying a horse down..or really any reason too...except for a "neat trick" I don't feel it's really much about trust or training. Nothing but a gimmick. She feels the horse "learned" something....something valuable. *I* do not. Simple as that. The horse was not harmed during the process, other than the tack should have been left off. I have left very praised and good advice here on the training board, so to so much as to say I don't "get" it...please. I apologize for my past post. It was an unnecissary comment. *I* do not agree with what the OP feels is "happening" in the horses mind..and I don't follow any clinicians. I follow my own way around with what works for *MY* particular horses and I have shared that knowledge here if it best fits a situation. So to the OP...great..you taught your horse a nice trick...but nothing else really beyond that. You will impress others with real training tactics...not tricks, to fix issues. Perhaps practice it a little more carefully next time, sans tack. Best wishes...hopefully you find some real training tactics that will work better for you.

*edited for a few misspellings and missing words*

Edited by spanish_walkin_wannabe

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Normally i do not post on here, but this subject has really drawn my attention. Everyone is seeming a little snarky on here. Is it really just a neat trick? Well, let me tell you how this neat trick probley saved my life last week. I have buckskin gelding that i have taught how to lay down ( and bow) ANYWHERE.

I Was at saddle club last week, ponying a girlfriends horse. We will call him "stupid horse" Well, in a nut shell. Stupid horse reared up, came after my horse, Buck. Buck reared up and went to spin away, and slipped in the grass and fell on me. Somehow I ended up with my left leg under him, up to my hip, on his belly side. (dont know how i ended up on that side, kinda scary to be pinned down and in between 4 hooves!!) He started to kick a little, and tried to almost get up. I remember putting my right hand up to my head, and placing my hand on his back boot of his leg and saying "easy buck" "down buck, easy" .THose words saved my life!!! THank goodness he calmed down. He allowed someone to "keep" him in his laying down position, while others had to pick up his hind end, and pull me out. A huge benefit of teaching your horse to lay down.

i just got out of surgery today. my tibia/ ankle bone was broke, and i have had two pins placed in it. I thank GOD I taught that horse to lay down. for fun, or not. it came in handy. if he got up, my chest would have been crushed, not to mention my head would possiby gotten stepped on as well.

no, i was not wearing a helmet. but it has opened my eyes, and i will. you can even get hurt on your brokest horses. accidents do happen.

please do not be mean to the one who started this post. GOOD FOR YOU! teach your horse to lay still. Get hay string and teach him to give his leg to you with a string wrapped around his leg, cannon bone, fetlock, knee.... possibilities are endless. YOU will be thankfull you did if you ever go trailriding and step in unseen barb wire, and your horse does not panic and cut his leg off, but stands there for you to un-do him. Teach your horse to do anything you want, and stay calm.

i hope you all have a wonderful day. i just wanted to share my story of my precious sweet, sweet buck, who helped keep my injuries to a minimun, by laying still, even though he was laying on top of me.

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Kojack so you came over to this thread to start bickering and continue on with your grudge against a few board members. Please dont taint the training board, keep your personal issues with members to the debate board, it doesnt belong anywhere else.

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Buck&Blossom'sMom: Sorry for your accident and I hope your recovery is quick!

I don't think anyone was really slamming the OP. I think mostly people were questioning WHY she wanted to lay her horse down, as in what purpose did she think it was going to serve in his training process. And some just don't teach "tricks" to horses. Most were just trying to understand the reasoning behind the whole thing. Many thought she was doing it to "fix" some problem and we questioned that.

As for your accident? I would hope a well trained horse, whether it has been trained to lay down on command or not, would stay calm in such a situation and would respond to the owner asking it to do whatever necessary to minimize the danger. Maybe you teaching him to lay down helped and maybe his "regular" training and the fact he's a dependable horse contributed to this accident not being as serious as it could have been.

I've known people who have had horses go down with them and they managed to survive and the horse too because of the training instilled in the horse. I don't think any of them ever taught their horse to lay down on command.

Just sayin' ...

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Kojack so you came over to this thread to start bickering and continue on with your grudge against a few board members. Please dont taint the training board, keep your personal issues with members to the debate board, it doesnt belong anywhere else.

HEY!

It don't belong there either! Trolls have no place except under bridges ... and I don't see no stinking bridges here! :happy0203:

I think this post was evolving well, people were coming to an understanding and such ... until Jojo came to play. Sorry I posted folks ... I have a feeling I am being followed.

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If you are being followed, you would not be the first one that happened to. [surrender]

I hear you on your story of your horse falling on your leg and you being able to keep him down long enough to get untangled from him.

That was very lucky, for being so unlucky to have a wreck. [Angel]

I had a colt I was galloping fall with me and I was alone.

I had not taught him to lay down, but had taught him to stretch, as he was getting so big to get on out in the pasture and he was very broke.

The vet said he must have fainted, as he could not find anything wrong with him.

Bloodwork, examination, all ok. :confused0024:

He laid there, lights out for a little bit, on my leg, so I could not move and it felt like it was broken.

He started to come to and dizzily struggle up and I held him down with my hands on his neck and talking to him, until he was awake enough to sit up without struggling and I could scoot out from under him.

He was fine, no one could find anything wrong with him, other than he had grown 3" in four months and maybe he did faint.

My leg was not broken, but two ribs were, ouch!

I still don't know how. [Crazy]

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I, too, am happy your wreck ended well.

However ... straight armchair quarterbacking here, I'd allow that before I offered to pony 'stupid horse', I'd have him properly tacked and held so 'attacking' my horse wasn't an option. I'd also hope to know a mount I'd deemed fit to pony off of was going to try to stay under me and help me control 'stupid horse'.

Accidents happen ... but sometimes, we write the script for them then are astounded when they play out.

'WE' meant just that. I personally aligned a group of 'stars' early this year that got me used for a lawn dart by my drama king horse who simply allowed me to set him up to blow apart.

He bucked and I'm not talking about playing around bucking. When it was over, I was thrilled to have a fine, young cowboy to hand him off to to 'top' ... see if it was just the aberration I thought it was or if the 'I don't have to be a saddlehorse any more lightbulb' had come on. Nope ... it was just me, spending months dilligently setting myself up to get hammered on that day. Not the horse's problem at all.

Going back to fill in some weak spots in his foundation was all that was required ... and applying the common sense God gave me.

If some one had decided it was time to get my pony on the ground in a show of ultimate respect over my idiocy I'd have really REALLY been heartbroken for him as he didn't have it coming.

His relationship with me happens on his feet and he's allowed to question what I ask. He's required to take my answers to heart, however.

Edited by quarterflash

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Kojack so you came over to this thread to start bickering and continue on with your grudge against a few board members. Please dont taint the training board, keep your personal issues with members to the debate board, it doesnt belong anywhere else.

I have delayed in replying to you for a number of reasons, the major one was to give myself the opportunity to review the training board and here is what I found. Please reference the the topic Western pleasure. On this topic I found the following words used, Stupid, Ignorant, Elit and a number of other charming phrases. I also found on post # 44 the following, from Big Bay"skipping over all the sniping that belongs on the debate board," and on post # 64 a request for a chill pill but I think my all time favorite is the entrance of Nikki on post # 66" Quit the personal jabs and catty behavior. Now it seems that your training board has a little of the personal issues that might just be tainting it. Oh of course I nor you posted on that topic. So I didn't go anywhere to bicker with anyone as a matter of fact I was asked to look into the training board, glad I did. Thanks for you input but I'll have to take it with a cup of salt.

I will go to the training board in the future and have no intent on bickering with anyone but I do have one caveat when challenged I will not slink into a corner with my pride hurt, I will respond .

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HEY!

It don't belong there either! Trolls have no place except under bridges ... and I don't see no stinking bridges here! :happy0203:

I think this post was evolving well, people were coming to an understanding and such ... until Jojo came to play. Sorry I posted folks ... I have a feeling I am being followed.

You give far too much credit to me and yourself. Have a blessed day.

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If laying down is a trick? (For the record, I'd think it was a bad trick if not necessary like Merry's horse for trimming?) OK .... mission accomplished.

If laying down is being used to gain respect there are plenty of other ways to go about it that are more dignified for the horse.

If the horse is the devil and needs a serious Come To Jesus, give it to him under safe conditions to include a hand experienced at it.

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