jchitw00

Dangerous Horse?

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I think most folks are reacting largely to the fact that you were hospitalized both times ----- BUT the thing I wonder about is did anyone ever teach you how to fall and come off?

How we fall makes all the difference in the world how badly we get hurt. And it could be the only reason you got hurt as badly as you did was because of how you fell.

I've got a sneaky bucker as well. He loves to buck and he'll buck like an NFR horse instead of taking off and running with other horses. I raised him and broke him and he was one of the easiest colts I've ever broken. But if something sets him off, he's explosive. The rest of the time he's a dream.

In Nov he bucked me off & broke my rib when I went to canter him across the pasture. This was at the end of our ride after a warm up. I wasn't paying attention or I'd have seen it coming. But it was a wake up call that I need to put more consistent time for him and do something different. I started taking lessons to help me finish him out for western pleasure.

One of the things that the gal is having me do is stretch him down a lot every ride. Because of that I've seen a BIG change in attitude and less bucking. He's much more relaxed and it makes a lot of difference.

I agree that the easiest & safest thing is to send him down the road. But if you're going to keep him I wouldn't add any speed at all until you've had a chance to get him checked out and make sure he's properly warmed up & stretched, and he's had some consistent work. You're also going to need to be aware and paying attention stride for stride so you can catch it before it happens. Also wear a helmet since you know he bucks.

The thing about having a horse like that requires a lot of dedication and fortitude and it's not a walk in the park. It's work!

Good luck and stay safe!

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And some horses just like to buck. That's how much of the rodeo stock becomes rodeo stock -- they enjoy their 'job'.

I was at a colt branding and old time bronc riding event here last month. The bucking horses were actual ranch horses that were broke to ride but they are "cold backed" ... in other words, they like to buck! The event was a kick to watch, the judging being a bit different than in a regular rodeo. The bucking horses were all tied to the fence outside the arena. A buckaroo on a horse brought the bucking horse in, ponied off their horse. A second buckaroo on horseback came in and they put the bucking horse between them, snubbed up to one of the horses. The rider comes in with the saddle, and that's when the judging starts. The rider saddles the horse that is snubbed, gets on, the horse is turned loose and the ride begins! After the rider comes off, they catch the horse and remove the saddle. That's when the judging stopped.

These horses did NOT have on flank cinches/bucking straps. Just regular saddles, although I suspect they used their old saddles and maybe not their good ones.

So it's possible this is a horse who just gets a wild hair and wants to buck, period. And he's gotten away with it, repeatedly, from the sounds of things.

He would no longer be among the living at our house. There are just too many good horses out there to deal with one that is unpredictable and dangerous, IMHO. What happens if the OP gets hurt to the point she can't ride or walk again? Then the horse gets sold, maybe not with full disclosure, and someone gets hurt or killed? All because the OP "loves" this horse and has this crazy "Black Stallion Syndrome" thing going on! We sent a dangerous horse to the canner for this exact reason. I did NOT want it on MY conscious if this mare hurt or killed someone because that was her GOAL. I'm not talking about the one who bucked me off (in my earlier post) but another one we rescued. Some things just aren't worth risking life and limb for.

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If this horse were my daughter's and she had been injured as bad as you say you were...this horse would have been on a double decker south to speak spanish! I would have been perfectly OK with whatever conditions he ran into because he hurt my daughter. I'd have hung him on a hook faster than you can say, "load 'em up boys". That's a canner horse for sure. Hopefully, he wouldn't give somebody's good dog indigestion.

I think this is kind of harsh. Yes, the horse DID buck her off without warning twice and that is totally unacceptable, but to say such things! Ok, maybe the horse isn't worth keeping to ride, but he could be a pasture pet or a companion horse. No matter what, I would NEVER send a horse to a Mexican slaughterhouse because of the way they are treated. Do you know what happens to horses sent to Mexico? They are shoved into dark trailers, usually double deckers so nobody will see them. On the way there, they have very little ventilation and no water or food, even if the trip is days or more. They ride in the hot, cramped, ammonia-smelling trailer for god knows how long until they arive at the slaughterhouse. The horses that survive the trip are shooed out of the trailer into tiny holding pens. If there are any injured horses on the trailer, they are dragged out and left on the ground until a truck or tractor comes to drag them with chains into the slaughterhouse. The horses in the holding pens are then shoved, one at a time, into a small stall that has an open window above it. Then, a man with a sharp knife sticks his head out of the window and STABBS the horse numerous times in its spine until it is paralyzed. Then, the horse is dragged out of the stall and is suspended with chains and hooks in the air. Then, its throat is slit and it is left to bleed out as another horse is brought in to die. Horrible.

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I think this is kind of harsh. Yes, the horse DID buck her off without warning twice and that is totally unacceptable, but to say such things! Ok, maybe the horse isn't worth keeping to ride, but he could be a pasture pet or a companion horse. No matter what, I would NEVER send a horse to a Mexican slaughterhouse because of the way they are treated. Do you know what happens to horses sent to Mexico? They are shoved into dark trailers, usually double deckers so nobody will see them. On the way there, they have very little ventilation and no water or food, even if the trip is days or more. They ride in the hot, cramped, ammonia-smelling trailer for god knows how long until they arive at the slaughterhouse. The horses that survive the trip are shooed out of the trailer into tiny holding pens. If there are any injured horses on the trailer, they are dragged out and left on the ground until a truck or tractor comes to drag them with chains into the slaughterhouse. The horses in the holding pens are then shoved, one at a time, into a small stall that has an open window above it. Then, a man with a sharp knife sticks his head out of the window and STABBS the horse numerous times in its spine until it is paralyzed. Then, the horse is dragged out of the stall and is suspended with chains and hooks in the air. Then, its throat is slit and it is left to bleed out as another horse is brought in to die. Horrible.

Not to turn this into a slaughter thread but ...

Yeah, thanks to all the anti-slaughter folks who have MADE THIS HAPPEN. If it were still done HERE, it wouldn't be done this way. It would be done properly and humanely. But no, if we can't see it, we don't care, right? Thousands, and I mean literally THOUSANDS of horses go this route.

Oh, an in case you hadn't heard, horses are not hauled in double decker trailers any longer; it's been outlawed for a few years now. The trailers they are hauled in look similar to cattle trucks but they are single decks. They haul wild horses in them all the time.

And sorry, I don't think Bay was being harsh. I think the OP's mother is delusional in even considering keeping this horse for her child. But then, what mother buys a green horse for a child that has bucked off 3 trainers? :confused0024:

I wouldn't have bothered with the canner truck myself. I have a gun.

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No, Bay wasn't harsh at all. She was realistic.

COULD this horse be saved? maybe, but i doubt it. Is he WORTH saving? same answer. Are there OTHER horses out there who are worth saving? without a doubt.

Actually, although there are some smaller slaughterhouses in Mexico that are as nasty as you describe (more or less) the ones getting all the US horses ARE run by the same european countries who ran the ones here (making them heavily inspected because they want their meat untainted and done right). But the long trailer rides and the fact that they ARE sent to Mexico? 100% the fault of Anti-Slaughter enthusiasts HERE in the US. Go thank them.

Meanwhile, this horse should be turned out forever, shot, euthanized or taught spanish, but he shouldn't be ridden. Maybe he'd make a good bronc (rodeo).

Bumper

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Bumper, I know Bay was being realistic, but still...slaughter? And what I described happens all the time in Mexico, I know this would not happen if slaughter was still legal in the US, and horses were slaughtered much more humanely in the US when slaughter was allowed. But, thanks to the anti-slaughter oddballs, many horses are being sent to Mexico to be slaughtered in the most horrible way. I just meant that I don't think anyone should be so quick to send a horse down south. A gun would be so much more humane and easy.

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Oh, an in case you hadn't heard, horses are not hauled in double decker trailers any longer; it's been outlawed for a few years now. The trailers they are hauled in look similar to cattle trucks but they are single decks. They haul wild horses in them all the time.

It still happens. Just because it has been outlawed, doesn't mean it still does not happen. And in case you hadn't heard, robbing banks has also been illegal for many years, but people still do it. Why? Because sometimes, they get away with it.

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Bumper, I know Bay was being realistic, but still...slaughter? And what I described happens all the time in Mexico, I know this would not happen if slaughter was still legal in the US, and horses were slaughtered much more humanely in the US when slaughter was allowed. But, thanks to the anti-slaughter oddballs, many horses are being sent to Mexico to be slaughtered in the most horrible way. I just meant that I don't think anyone should be so quick to send a horse down south. A gun would be so much more humane and easy.

Actually, while it happens "all the time" in Mexico, it does not happen in all the slaughter plants. I've seen documentation and photos of the new facilities built JUST to replace the ones lost here. In fact, someone posted them here on HC. So while the TRIP to Mexico is long and difficult and there ARE mom n pop slaughter plants where things are horrible, most horses shipped there go to the newer facilities.

I've seen a few horses i thought were really good candidates for stew. If this horse truly broke in two and dumped this girl bad enough to hospitalize her TWICE...he's one.

Bumper

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Yea, I guess you're right, Bumper. I just hate to hear about the US's horses being sent to Mexico to an unknown fate. (they could be sent to an awful facility or to a newer one like you described) Personally, if this were my horse, I'd either keep him as a companion for another horse, or shoot him.

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Bumper, I know Bay was being realistic, but still...slaughter? And what I described happens all the time in Mexico, I know this would not happen if slaughter was still legal in the US, and horses were slaughtered much more humanely in the US when slaughter was allowed. But, thanks to the anti-slaughter oddballs, many horses are being sent to Mexico to be slaughtered in the most horrible way. I just meant that I don't think anyone should be so quick to send a horse down south. A gun would be so much more humane and easy.

Being practical and realistic, I rent a place and know that I have no place to bury a horse. It is more expedient for me to load up a horse on a trailer under their own power, than to shoot first and then load it into a truck. Maybe I am a bad person, but I have to admit that I would hold a grudge against a horse that hurt my daughter and wouldn't lose any sleep over it having a tough time of it. I am well aware of the process involved in shipping a horse.

Though, since I love my daughter and myself, I wouldn't have purchased any horse that had given 3 trainers that much trouble. It just doesn't make sense. This would not be a problem I gave myself. That doesn't mean any horse couldn't hurt you, but it certainly stacks the odds better in your favor to stay out of the Emergency room or a Funeral home.

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Being practical and realistic, I rent a place and know that I have no place to bury a horse. It is more expedient for me to load up a horse on a trailer under their own power, than to shoot first and then load it into a truck. Maybe I am a bad person, but I have to admit that I would hold a grudge against a horse that hurt my daughter and wouldn't lose any sleep over it having a tough time of it. I am well aware of the process involved in shipping a horse.

Though, since I love my daughter and myself, I wouldn't have purchased any horse that had given 3 trainers that much trouble. It just doesn't make sense. This would not be a problem I gave myself. That doesn't mean any horse couldn't hurt you, but it certainly stacks the odds better in your favor to stay out of the Emergency room or a Funeral home.

What Bayfilly said again.

A 'companion horse' is still an expensive proposition and requires the care that most valued saddle horses get. There are many champion horses who have spent their lives giving their honest all that are not pensioned due to financial and spatial concerns. I sure wouldn't give a horse that hurt my kid, much less hospitalized her one oat past that point nor subject any one else's kid to the thing.

Horses like him used to go through the auction ring declared 'cowboy's horses'. These days, it's tough enough to find a competant rider to sell a horse who is simply quirky.

Yeah ... he's buckskin and obviously pretty or this mother would likely not have been tempted to purchase him with his 'track record'. I think he's shown his colors enough at this point.

I administered the horse whipping of a lifetime to a counterfeit gelding who reached over a stall front to bite (not nip ... take a hold BITE) my young daughter. He was at the auction before the welts were gone.

No second chances. Big, potentially dangerous animals need to earn their place in the world. Until horse correctional institutions spring up to warehouse such beasts ... good dogs all over the world are hungry.

Makes a GREAT case for US based, sharply monitored slaughter plants IMO.

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I think the people here are to blame as much as the horse. First of all, what kind of mother would get her daughter a horse that has hurt people before, and been to 3 different trainers? Second, why would the girl continue to ride the horse after being hurt the first time? In my opinion, this horse should not be with this girl if she's going to keep getting hurt. The horse either belongs with a professional, or in the ground. Horses like him are NOT meant for novices.

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Ok, I admit it, even though I know I am going to catch some h3ll for it... I am anti-slaughter in MOST circumstances. There are times where the only option is to send the horse off. However, I would not send this horse to slaughter... Give/sell him to a rodeo company, keep him if you can afford a lawn ornament, or have him HUMANELY put down. I understand where a few of you have come from where you would have to load his dead carcus into a trailer, but a lot of vets will make calls and meet you somewhere where you would be able to bury the horse, and put it down--Sometimes right in the hole.

Back on the slaughter houses... The ones in the US weren't much better than the "ma & pa" ones in Mexico. My uncle worked in a horse slaughter house because he had to feed his family, and he said they were just as bad as that, if not worse. The ones in the US usually didn't waste any time letting them bleed out.. It was a slit to the throat, and slice open the belly to let their guts fall out (while they were still alive) and hang there until they died... I wont support that. 2 of my horses came from the slaughter line, and they are THE BEST horses I have ever had, and probably will ever have. I just cant imagine that happening to either of them. Their lives are too precious, and because I never know what would happen down the road, both of them are staying with me until they die, or I do.. Whichever happens first. :)

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Poptart, I am glad you have horses you enjoy and are pleasing to you. I'm glad you have the place and property to bury them on.

I'm not sure why people are so bothered by shooting a horse. Done right, it is by far and a way faster and more humane to the horse. That pink cocktail administered by the vet? They KNOW. Some of them are ready to go, and some fight. The ones that fight it are the worst. The thrash around and are obviously not ready to go. A properly fired bullet? No fighting. A good hand with a gun? The horse never even knew it was coming. Euthanasia is in excess of $100 depending on where you are and how much it takes. A bullet is less than a dollar.

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Poptart, I am glad you have horses you enjoy and are pleasing to you. I'm glad you have the place and property to bury them on.

I'm not sure why people are so bothered by shooting a horse. Done right, it is by far and a way faster and more humane to the horse. That pink cocktail administered by the vet? They KNOW. Some of them are ready to go, and some fight. The ones that fight it are the worst. The thrash around and are obviously not ready to go. A properly fired bullet? No fighting. A good hand with a gun? The horse never even knew it was coming. Euthanasia is in excess of $100 depending on where you are and how much it takes. A bullet is less than a dollar.

so true. i have seen a sheep fight the juice for almost an hour. that old girl did not want to go, and didnt until the vet finally injected the third shot straight into the heart (with a horse that is not a possibillity because the heart is so deep in the chest)

at the farm where i worked one of my jobs was to teatch the wildies destined for home slaughter to eat grain from a bucket. when it was time, i would go out with the bucket, call the wildie in and sit at the right place for as long as it took for the horse to come over and put his or her head in the bucket. then i would walk away, and hubby (who usually were hiding behind something) killed the horse with a bullet to the forehead... it was quick and painfree for the horse. not so much to me, but that was always of less importance in those cases. what mattered was that the horse was put down quick and stress/pain free...

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I understand the thought pattern. He's a good horse deep down inside, till something triggers a bucking episode. Then he's dangerous. I understand that other than this occasional bucking episodes, there are no other problems with this horse. I'd even understand the feelings, that slaughter is like a knife thru the heart. I understand you want to exhaust every avenue you can come across, in order to try to fix this problem. I get all that, I really do. I feel your pain, and sympathize.

But, third strike you're out. You've had two big time strikes already. So despite all his good points, and I'm sure he has many. I honestly don't think a third strike is worth the risk. Not to you, not to anyone else either. So, as I see it, these are your options: you can continue to ride this horse and pray that final risk doesn't ever come, you can keep this horse as a companion horse, put him down, or sell him for meat.

Sometimes, despite all the good things, you can't always fix the wrong ones, no matter how hard you try. The hard part is admitting it to yourself, and realizing that your own life is worth more than another risk.

They did a show on tv just the other night about concussions. They were looking into football players (but you could replace it with other sports as well), who suffered multiple concussions, but died at a very young age. What they found by studying/examining their brains, was that the concussions they suffered, caused their brains to go into very early dementia. These were men in their early 40's and 50's who had serious dementia associated to that of a 70 to 80 yr old. Having one serious, and one mild concussion myself (I was not riding a horse), this dementia is not something I want to suffer from, or look forward to. Because once you've had a concussion, you are very susceptible to getting them again, very easily. Something to think about as you consider your options with this horse.

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What Bayfilly said again.

A 'companion horse' is still an expensive proposition and requires the care that most valued saddle horses get. There are many champion horses who have spent their lives giving their honest all that are not pensioned due to financial and spatial concerns. I sure wouldn't give a horse that hurt my kid, much less hospitalized her one oat past that point nor subject any one else's kid to the thing.

Horses like him used to go through the auction ring declared 'cowboy's horses'. These days, it's tough enough to find a competant rider to sell a horse who is simply quirky.

Yeah ... he's buckskin and obviously pretty or this mother would likely not have been tempted to purchase him with his 'track record'. I think he's shown his colors enough at this point.

I administered the horse whipping of a lifetime to a counterfeit gelding who reached over a stall front to bite (not nip ... take a hold BITE) my young daughter. He was at the auction before the welts were gone.

No second chances. Big, potentially dangerous animals need to earn their place in the world. Until horse correctional institutions spring up to warehouse such beasts ... good dogs all over the world are hungry.

Makes a GREAT case for US based, sharply monitored slaughter plants IMO.

I simply could not agree more!

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I kind of want to play devils advocate here.

i had 2 almost similar incidents 3 years apart. first was in 2006 on a barrel horse i was training, and it was similar to the op's experience. but i was at a show, and he didnt buck, he moved to the side and i kept going straight, and now i have Antegrade amnesia. I landed on my head/neck/shoulder, cracked my shoulder blade in half, and had impacted my neck, but since i was wearing a helmet im pretty sure thats why i didnt die. this wasnt a horse who was malicious, or dangerous, he simply was so excited to be going that fast, and he loved him some barrels. so he decided to turn early. I personally wouldnt put the horse down because of that.

the second case happened april 16 2009. I was riding a 4 year old that I trained, who was being brought to the phitzer ranch auction the following week, it was cool out, this horse was a sweet heart, and he picked up new things really fast. he was smart, and he loved to go slow (if it were up to him, he would only walk). well i asked for the lope, and he went right into it was was really moving out nicely, and about half way around the arena his head went down and he did a bucking bronc impression that could have passed as pro! i came off and cracked my hip.

so why is it everyone is saying this horse is dangerous? I dont see it 100%. I see a girl, whos had a horse since he was 3, and could ride him anywhere, have a slip up a few years ago (cant be considered bucking because there wasnt someone watching who could actually see what he did) and a recent one. i agree he shouldnt buck, but out of having him so long, why is he all of a sudden malicious. what if he was feeling good like the 4 year old? and its only happened when the op is galloping. A lot of people know horses who are performance horses have alot of energy. Look at all the barrel horses who are barely controllable, all the jumping horses who give out a buck during a huge event, they dont put those horses down...

also, How good of a rider is the OP? not trying to pass judgement at all(so please dont take offense!) but if she isnt a super experienced rider, or doesnt have excellent balance, even a little crow hop can dislodge a rider.

I want to know if this horse was acting malicious. I feel there is a differance between an angry mean horse, and a horse who kicks up his heels every once in a while.

Bucks happen, rears happen. they are still 1000 pound animals, and they will do what they want when they want to, no amount of training will stop it

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OK, I see the OP hasn't returned. Probably won't because we didn't tell her what she wanted to here. Bummer. Hopefully she's not injured again.

I did not respond to some of these because I asked for your opinions, so what would be the point of telling you that you're wrong?

On that note, I do not want to leave the impression that I will, by any means, sell him to someone else if I truly believed him to simply be rank and dangerous. I won't be responsible for anyone's death.

Edited by JCSmiles

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so why is it everyone is saying this horse is dangerous? I dont see it 100%. I see a girl, whos had a horse since he was 3, and could ride him anywhere, have a slip up a few years ago (cant be considered bucking because there wasnt someone watching who could actually see what he did) and a recent one. i agree he shouldnt buck, but out of having him so long, why is he all of a sudden malicious. what if he was feeling good like the 4 year old? and its only happened when the op is galloping. A lot of people know horses who are performance horses have alot of energy. Look at all the barrel horses who are barely controllable, all the jumping horses who give out a buck during a huge event, they dont put those horses down...

also, How good of a rider is the OP? not trying to pass judgement at all(so please dont take offense!) but if she isnt a super experienced rider, or doesnt have excellent balance, even a little crow hop can dislodge a rider.

I want to know if this horse was acting malicious. I feel there is a differance between an angry mean horse, and a horse who kicks up his heels every once in a while.

Bucks happen, rears happen. they are still 1000 pound animals, and they will do what they want when they want to, no amount of training will stop it

You're right, i have absolutely no intention of putting him down. I know some wouldn't agree with that, but that's simply a difference between us. I do want to say, however, that I intend to have another vet look at him. I was given some interesting information on the chiropractor I used and I believe a second opinion is definitely in order.

As for acting malicious or being an angry, mean horse....... no. That's simply not him. And believe me, I have seen these horses and know the difference.

Edited by JCSmiles

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People are saying this horse is dangerous because it broncs off anyone but the OP, and has bronced off the OP AT LEAST once with very bad results. Either this poster does not belong on such a green horse, the horse is rank, or the horse isn't broke.

My show horse has NEVER EVER EVER even threatened to bronc, broncing IS NOT ACCEPTABLE under any circumstances, since the op has had this horse a while I can only assume it is rank. I personally don't care if the op keeps this horse or not, she seems to like the unpredictable nature of the horse and its attitude towards other riders. MY question is why come on the forum FULL of very knowledgeable horse people, and ignore their suggestions?

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Both times it was at a gallop that this horse, seems to me, was feeling his oats and got out from under you.

Dont gallop him. Ride him in a controlled canter and I see no further episodes happening.

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I train many different types of horses in dressage. Nine times out of ten the root cause for such problems is physical. However over time these physical problems turn into psychological ones.

If I were a betting man (from what you say), I’d say the horse pinches a nerve in its spine when it is either ridden with a hollow back or ridden opened up and stretched out (as in a gallop). Given that you say the horse has gigantic natural extensions seems to indicate that there is something a little unusual about its back. In “English” riding one tends to ride with a “light” and supple seat (basically getting off the horses back), transferring about 60 to 70 % of ones weight down the thigh and into the stirrup. In dressage and english riding the horse is ridden so that its back is rounded like a strong but supple bridge. In western, there (sometimes) seems to be a strong tendency to ride the horse very hollow with the seat bones powering through the horse back (not always, but very often). If you are feeling “brave” or lucky I would perhaps try to ride the horse in an arena (with fairly soft footing) and see if you ride overly deep with your seat bones at a gallop whether the horse starts to get very nervous or agitated. Alternatively if you want to play it safe use a well fitting english/dressage saddle, and ride for a year keeping most of you weight off the horses back (imagine you are sitting on egg boxes!). You may find that the problem is not “triggered”.

At the moment I am training a five year old, that I know I should probably put down. The horse is O.K. and is very trainable, but appears to be autistic in some way. The horse is very unpredictable and in about one in twenty rides it does this trick which is like instant matter transportation, where without any warning it will apparate fifteen feet to one side and I am left flat on my back on the ground. I can flog the horse to an inch of its life immediately afterwards (if I wanted to) but this basic reflex that the horse has cannot be “punished” out of the horse, as it is totally “hard wired”. I grew up riding my father’s stallions at the age of ten onwards and so I can deal with difficult horses and can stick on like glue. This instant matter transportation trick (especially on a smallish horse) is something I cannot defend myself against; nor should I expect prospective clients or future owners to be able to deal with it either. I cannot in good conscience sell or give away this horse. Somebody will definitely end up in the hospital or will be killed as a result. As much as I hate to have to put a horse down, in my case it is probably the only sensible course of action:(

I hope this helps,

Cheers,

Eric

Edited by Danish WB

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Whatever you do, don't ever get on this horse again. The injuries you have sustained have been serious, and you have been lucky to have not been injured more severely. Stay off this horse, and find a more willing companion.

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Either the trainers all were ignorant, or this horse plain and simple likes to buck when he feels like it

The reason he probably bucked western is beacuse in those incidents he was put in an excitable condition, due to surroundings and speed

I ride both english and western, and can assure you that I do not all at once let my horse hollow out and sit like a sack of potatoes, soon as I stick a western saddle on. This horse is being ridden by the op in both types of tack, not by different riders.

This horse is spoiled. The one man horse myth in reality is a spoiled horse

A well broke horse works for any rider, far as being broke, with level of performance equal to what each rider is able to bring out in the horse due to the horse's own training and the skill of the rider

Such a horse might just pack around a green rider, but does not buck them off

How successful do you think good trainer would be if they were the only ones able to ride the horses they train? Sure wouldn't be producing those youth and non pro horses

This horse is spoiled, plain and simple

Some of the best known rodeo bucking horses are saddle horses that just decided to have a change in work ethics. They like to buck when it suits them

Many ponies are excellent examples of a 'kid' broke horse. They might work when it suits them, but also will be rebellious when it suits them, because they were never really broke by someone with the knowledge to produce an honest horse

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I think everybody in this thread puts forward some valid points. Its very hard to determine the character of the horse over the internet. But it seems to me that the horse is probably not spoiled.

I am guessing that OP/JCsmiles is of fairly slight build and therefore has very little impact on the horses back as compared to friends or trainers.

A very good friend of mine who is a very excellent and experienced event trainer in the U.K.had a very similar situation. No horse under her care and careful training is ever spoiled. The horse a very nice WB jumper always had an excellent attitude and work ethic. It seemed that when training increased, the horse would seem absolutely fine and calm at competition and would once or twice, out of the blue pitch the rider off in a very sudden fashion. There are absolutely no mental or attitude problems with the horse but rather a very sudden and very sharp and intense nerve pain being experience by the horse. The pain being so sudden that the horse has no time to consider the consequences other than just to react.

The pattern that was found to trigger the problem was somewhat counter intuitive. If the horse was warmed up in a cursory/half arsed fashion, with its back being a little stiff or tight, there would be no problems. If the horse was lunged increasingly and its back was loosened up very well and the warm up sessions were carried out very diligently (for example before competitions) then the problems would start. It seems that this extra looseness in the back exposed sensitive nerves (for example lateral nerve ganglia) to various structures that they would not normally come into contact with and would “pinch” in a very severe way. (remember nerve fibers are flexible and dynamic structures and so are the muscles and spinal processes; they can collide if things are really loosened up)

Some folks have posted that their horse should be able to put up with its “head falling off” etc. Some horse are wired up to deal with severe pain in a very stoic way, while others simply cannot cope. If the horse cannot cope with very sharp excruciating sudden pain then there is not much that you can do about it. The horse is NOT spoiled. You cannot implement a training regime where the horse must be progressively acclimatized to excruciating and sudden pain. (If anyone has a training regimen for this I would certainly like to hear it!).

Some chiropractors are good and some are rather ineffective. Sudden severe nerve pain in the back is very difficult to treat. The only thing I have heard of that has had some success with these issues is the use of equine acupuncture. But this could be very expensive and not work at all.

If you really care about the horse leave no stone unturned, but I think at this point your options are very limited. (If you have to ride the horse again then wear protective eventing vest/body armor!)

Cheers,

Eric

Edited by Danish WB

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Eric, while one should always rule out pain, one also uses deductive reasoning

Our horses today work nowhere near the level that horses did in the past, putting in long hours without the benefit of all the good tack we have at our disposel today, yet these horses seldom showed the mirage of mis behavior that we see today, due in a great part that horses are now recreational, often handled by people that have little horse experience, and unlike in days gone by, the rider is not brought up with horses as part of daily work. The horses themselves do not work the hours that they used to.

Horses, if they are going to buck, often will do so at the lope <canter. That is why it is very important to lope colts in the first month or so under saddle.

-a horse that bucks all others off, is a spoiled horse

this attitude extended to the op on at least two occasions

-the horse bucked several trainers off.

The horse was `trained`basically by a determined kid, but that does not equal a solid training foundation

While pain is a legitiment concern, it is also way over used today as an excuse for what is in fact a training and attitude issue

Horses also become show smart, and the examples you cite are often no more than a horse knowing when he might get away with a behavior at a show that he knows otherwise would be corrected.

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While pain is a legitiment concern, it is also way over used today as an excuse for what is in fact a training and attitude issue

Horses also become show smart, and the examples you cite are often no more than a horse knowing when he might get away with a behavior at a show that he knows otherwise would be corrected.

ABSOLUTELY! I find "saddle fit" and 'Pain issues" are more often then not an excuse to excuse bad behaviour instead of dealing with it.

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A horse experiencing saddle fit problems or back pain gives signals long before breaking in two like this.

Even if this particular horse had those issues, they do not excuse a violent reaction.

Bumper

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