jchitw00

Dangerous Horse?

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I just now got reading this post.....

The first thing i dont understand is why on earth a MOTHER would by her 13 yr old daughter a horse that has a history of bucking and the owner at that time says that he is unrideable.....the horse went through three trainers and they all seemed to have the same thought of the horse.

It is seeming that the horse only does this at high speeds i would have the vet out to look at him ASAP to see if there IS anything physically wrong with him.

If not then this horse is just down right dangerous. I totally agree with what someone said i cant remember who is was but they said you have an abusive realationship whith your horse. You may love him to pieces but a horse that is hurting you to this degree is not good for you its not good for him either. Ya know the first time you got hurt yea that could have been a fluke just simply an accident but for it to continue to happen....theres certainley something going on.

I dont think its saddle fit problems the horse would have showed more concern other than twice and like BUMPER said it should not result in this violent behavior

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I fully agree that the horse needs to be euthanized, there is no point in anyone else getting hurt with this horse.

However pretty much everyone on this thread could have been quite a bit more tactful. This girl obviously likes her horse but is having problems and knows it, having someone say her horse needs a bullet or a slaughter truck is pretty insensitive.

Seeing as almost everyone on this thread believes the horse should be euthanized, I hope the op takes that into consideration and stays safe. But really guys... can't we be sensitive to the fact that this girl is one way or the other having a serious problem which is most likely going to end in the horse going down the road one way or the other. It may be necessary, but it doesn't mean its an easy and emotionless decision.

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Feelings of soreness is one thing (like hard work and bad fitting tack), but a bundle of nerves that is suddenly pinched in a particular way, let’s say once a year is another thing all together. If you look at it from the horses point of view, everything seems fine and then you suddenly experience extreme very sharp shooting pains equivalent to being stabbed in the back with a kitchen knife. Given that the problem may only occur once per year, its very difficult to clue the horse in to the fact that he has to deal with this very quietly. I think it depends entirely on how severe or infrequent the pain may be. I agree for example that if a horse is sore then there is no excuse for explosive behavior, and horses should never be allowed to exploit a situation at a show.

Some horses that I have worked with (mainly european horses) will let you know if they have physical issues, you just have to pay attention to the horse but also be a very shrewd judge of character. If for example a horse starts to act up, for whatever reason, I generally punish the horse quite severely. I get back on the horse, and usually the horse either grumbles and complains and will for a while grudgingly knuckle down, or in some cases will decide to pick a fight. However in cases where the horse after being severely punished is relatively calm and does not display any change in behavior after getting back on the horse, leads me to think that maybe there is a physical problem. In one recent situation this was the case, (very sweet horse), I knew from riding and training the horse, that it’s back was a real mess, and managed to persuade the client to get chiropractic for the horse (the horse was a nice swedish warmblood, but under saddle really felt like a twisted bag of bones). Two weeks after the chiropractic the horses movement felt like silk and a year later there have been no dangerous/difficult issues with the horse. In my experience every horse is different and it is dangerous to over generalize. I believe that you owe it to your horse to leave no stone unturned and to make the effort to find the root causes of these types of problems.

I agree that very few people know how to start horses properly and that physical and psychological problems with the horse tend to go hand in hand and have their origins in the early stages of training. I specialize in training others to develop a proper foundation for their horses, even for the highest levels of competition, as usually for example a horse and rider combination are unable to progress to Grand Prix simply because something is missing in their foundation training. Its a painful experience to bring some one back to absolute zero and have to rebuild the horse and rider from scratch, but well worth it in the long run.

In the old days (especially in the US) horses with unfavorable temperaments were shot and eaten for very practical reasons. This explains why quarter horses generally have excellent temperaments. Most warmbloods in Europe come from German military horses used to pull canons. When dressage became a sport (1912 onwards) more thoroughbred has been added to many old lines. The horses unfortunately have been bred for performance and not temperament with the exception of the Westphalians. I am originally from the U.K. and have been in the states for five years now. It is true (at least amongst European horses) that I see a lot more spoilt and badly trained horses out here than Europe. This can be complicated by owners that apply techniques that work well on quarter horses that are totally ineffective for more challenging European horses. In the U.K. (for european breeds) the quality of horses are generally higher, as "bad" horses end up on a Styrofoam tray in a French super market.

Cheers Eric.

Edited by Danish WB

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However pretty much everyone on this thread could have been quite a bit more tactful. This girl obviously likes her horse but is having problems and knows it, having someone say her horse needs a bullet or a slaughter truck is pretty insensitive.

Reiner0227, [Not Worthy] Thank you for saying what I was thinking for some time now, reading this topic. I didn't say it, because I've been jumped on for it, before.

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Yeah Reiner and WR ... you're right and I apologize for my part. I *did* point out that first and foremost, get the horse checked for pain. Then, if it's just a spoiled horse that is dangerous (as the OP called him in the title to this thread), then he should be sent away to slaughter, or put down and buried or whatever.

I think the big issue that had people upset is the fact that this person was nearly killed not once but twice. And the mother bought this horse for her 13 year old daughter that 3 trainers deemed unsafe and had been unseated from themselves. That really raised a lot of hackles on people and I understand that too.

The mare that bucked me off and hurt me so bad, physically as well as mentally, was one of those horses that was meant to be a buckaroo horse. She had no physical issues (pain) as a cause of her outbursts, she was just a witchy mare. Her best bet would be on a ranch with a buckaroo that can ride the crap out of her, every day and ride her hard. She will probably always be a "buckaroo" type horse but some buckaroos like that.

The mare we sent off to the canner without even a second thought was a killer. We worked with her for over a year to get her gentle and at the very least, safe to be around. She had repeatedly charged us, teeth bared, front feet striking, for no reason. Just because we were there and she didn't want us in the same vicinity as her. Each time, she did it while in the corral, so we were thinking she was feeling trapped and threatened. When she came across an 8 acre pasture and we had to jump the fence to keep from being killed, she went straight into a pen and a call was made to the kill buyer.

It sounds to me like this gelding is between these 2 horses. The fact that the OP has this false sense of security with this horse, the whole "Black Stallion Syndrome", makes matters much worse. And the OP pretty much implied in her FIRST posts that getting rid of him just wasn't an option and she wanted to "fix" him. To most of us, this horse, after 6 years of training by a kid, just is not worth it and not fixable. Yeah, most of us are older and have been there before but it would be good if the OP actually took our words to heart. I know she got ticked because most of us said a .22 was the best option for the horse but given the information she posted? Honestly, it does seem like the best option.

And yeah, we could have approached it more tactfully and with a little more sensitivity but I honestly don't believe the OP will listen either way. She seems to think this horse loves her and that's why she is the only one who can ride him. A horse that can only be ridden by one person is a dangerous horse to have. If the OP gets killed on this horse, you can be sure the horse will be the one to suffer in the end. So why not get rid of him now, if not to slaughter then to a bucking string? Why insist on risking your life? She is so going to regret it later in life, if she lives that long, and she is so stoved up from the injuries this horse has inflicted upon her that she can't even walk without pain, let alone ride.

So, to the OP, sorry to be offensive but just know that those of us here who responded with the bullet theory are not 19 years old like you and have seen horses like this and no good has come from it. We don't want to read about you being a fatality ... so sometimes harsh words are what gets across when others don't.

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Andi, you worded that very well.

It just seemed like once a bullet in the head was mentioned, others had to jump on the wagon and keep saying it. It got just crude and rude. I mean, the OP got the message, already. No need for it to keep up.

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I definitely definitely agree the horse needs to be euthanized. And I think that initially the OP is going to have difficulty listening to the advice being given. But I think that when said in a more tactful manner, it is more likely that she will listen to it in the long run.

And yeah I agree that since the injuries have been so bad, it seems like the best way to get across the point is to be blunt, but its important to remember that young women and their horses... generally pretty emotional subjects.

This must be hard enough for the OP to ask for this help, let alone to read some of these replies.

Andi-I didnt actually think your reply was harsh as much as just another example of a problem horse that needs to move down the road.

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I don't see that the horse needs to be euthed.

He did this twice, both times at full gallop. I see no reason to run around on a horse at full gallop.

We had a mare for 15yrs that we all knew not to ride full gallop on. She would duck and dive if she felt good and off you would go. Ride her collected and at a reasonable speed and you were safe.

Full gallop was a no-no in my Uncles barn anyway. Too much can happen too fast. Not only stuff that's of the horse's making but stuff that's not controllable can happen and put you and the horse in danger.

Riding at a controlled speed is always preferable, IMHO than riding full out.

If this horse is not trying to dump her habitually at all speeds, I see no reason for the horse to have more than a vet check and chiro check.

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In the old days (especially in the US) horses with unfavorable temperaments were shot and eaten for very practical reasons. This explains why quarter horses generally have excellent temperaments. Most warmbloods in Europe come from German military horses used to pull canons. When dressage became a sport (1912 onwards) more thoroughbred has been added to many old lines. The horses unfortunately have been bred for performance and not temperament with the exception of the Westphalians. I am originally from the U.K. and have been in the states for five years now. It is true (at least amongst European horses) that I see a lot more spoilt and badly trained horses out here than Europe. This can be complicated by owners that apply techniques that work well on quarter horses that are totally ineffective for more challenging European horses. In the U.K. (for european breeds) the quality of horses are generally higher, as "bad" horses end up on a Styrofoam tray in a French super market.

Cheers Eric.

Interesting. "bad" horses end up on a Styrofoam tray in a French Supermarket. Funny how on both sides of the Pond, the answer ends up being the same.

Here's my take on the situation. The horse is dangerous. The owner of the horse needs to decide what is more important: her safety/her life OR her love for this horse.

I think she should lovingly make the decision to end his life, and preserve hers. How she chooses to go about that is her choice.

I don't think that this horse has earned the right to live out his life as a companion. There are plenty of honest, good working horses who have earned that right. Coincidentally, they never put anyone in the hospital.

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manesntails,

I agree, finally some common sense!

It sounds as if OP is a bit of an adrenaline junky. I see it from time to time where people get a huge buzz from going really fast and or crazy and get caught up in the buzz not realizing how much danger they are really in. It takes a special horse to be able to do these kinds of things. Its no coincidence that most of the successful Olympic medalists in eventing are older guys between their mid-forties to sixties (Michael Witaker for example) who are very careful riders; you never see young adrenaline junkies on the medal podium.

I agree, don’t gallop, don’t put the horse in challenging situations it can’t cope with, invest in a protective eventing vest (It will greatly reduce back injuries, but not neck injuries) see how it goes. However if the horse seeks to cause new problems, then seek the advice of an expert trainer who can work with you and or find a new horse. You have to ask yourself what is it that you really want from all this? In my book it is much more important to make sure you can keep riding for five decades or more than to make a short sighted decision that guarantees that you will never be able to ride again. OP/JCSmiles keep the big picture in mind.

Good Luck!

Edited by Danish WB

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Bad behavior escalates, thats a given in the horse world

I can give many examples-to the horse that just started to refuse going down the road by balking. If not corrected, pretty soon this escalates to rearing or bolting

Horses that become show sour also don't do so overnight. The rider lets little things slip at shows, wanting to place, so that the horse soon believes different rules apply in the show ring than at home, and takes advantage, becoming more blatent in his mis behavior

Not galloping this horse is not the final solution. Either fix him at the gallop, or ship him, because soon he will also buck at the slower gaits

This horse first only bucked with other people, then advanced to bucking occasionally with the OP. Soon that also will escalate. It is the nature of horses

I don't believe in having a horse gallop with a rider, without collection and form, unless you want a race horse. However, since this horse was galloped, he now would need to be convinced that even at speed he cannot buck. If you chellenge a horse with anything, make sure you are able to ride him through it, or don't go there in the first place

To see how truly 'well trained this horse moves at the best of times, including willingness and attitude and softeness, sorry but I would need a video, as inexperience and love can ceratinly obscure the reality.In other words , an impartial evaluation

How many horses are advertized with perfect conformation, or as being bomb proof, when reality is way different. Barn blindness is very prevalent

If If saw this horse in a video as a very well trained horse , with lots of body control and softness, then maybe I would be convinced there might be a pain issue

The case history convinces me otherwise

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Hmmm ...

Don't gallop the horse? Really?

In the world of Western horses, they are galloped all the time. From gaming, like barrels, poles, key hole type of stuff to calf roping, team roping, etc. Honestly, horses can, and do, gallop all the time without bucking. Heck, they can even run without bucking. I rode my old guy Dreyfuss after cows and he was at a dead run, jumping over sagebrush going after some errant cows. Never occurred to me he may buck.

I suspect, as Smilie said, this is NOT a well trained, supple, in control of his body type of horse and I truly hope this gal wraps her head (instead of her heart) around the notion that this horse very likely could kill her one day.

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Smile;

I have taken dressage horses to a low rent race track just to sort them out in the way you describe, basically just to get this type of BS over with; with the difference that I use a much clearer transition from canter to gallop (I find horses tend to get very frustrated with a “collected gallop” which (for english riding) is an oxymoron ( a kind of awkward bastardized four beat canter?), but I’m sure in western disciplines it could be made to work well. This kind of work really requires a very experienced trainer, and maybe beyond the skills of OP. If the the horse is not placed in these difficult or uncontrolled situations then it is much easier to reprimand a horse at walk than at is at full gallop. I.e. due diligence is payed to not let these faults creep in for simpler tasks. I.e more foundation training, maybe in the future returning to more challenging work. I know the kinds of situations that you (Smile) describe, but these are cliches, and not every horse is the same which prompts one to every now again look deeper into the problem, rather than just supply superficial snap answers. If the horse basically has a good character, and has talent its worth carefully exploring the options. On the other hand if the horse is of an inherently bad character (rather than just being spoilt) and has very little potential, then its not worth spending the time, and certainly not worth risking your neck for.

Every horse has its limitations, and every time you push it beyond its capabilities you are going to run into trouble. Regardless of training, horses have things that they simply can or cannot do. Just because you can play chopsticks on the piano does not mean you are going to be a Mozart. I see a lot of horses get mentally and physically destroyed because their owners push them way beyond their natural capabilities; vanity and ambition get in the way of real horsemanship.

Smile the points you make are interesting never the less, and certainly makes one think.

Cheers,

Eric

Edited by Danish WB

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wikihorseworld.com has an article that might help you. It talks about horse behavior problems. It lists off different reasons why a horse may misbehave. The link to this article is: http://www.wikihorseworld.com/wiki/Horse_Behavior_Problems

I hope this helps. Until you can figure out whats going on, you might want to consider not riding this horse due to the danger involved.

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Speaking as a mother of a very young daughter I would not keep a horse such as this nor would I ever buy this horse. This is not a kids horse or a horse for a young women. All these parents buying their children, which should be the most important person in their lives and whom THEY are responsible for making decisions for need to understand an ubroke horse that dumps off a trainer is not what a 10, 12, or even 13 year old should be riding. JCSmiles your safety is of the most importance! You have a very bight future in the horse world and do not let that light go out b/c a problem horse.

Someone with extensive knowledge on possible nerve problems, how to properly fit a sadde, warm it up, and yet still be prepared incase it goes to bucking.... these trainers are few and far between and may not even take a horse like this in.

Once again as a parent I know what I would do with this horse, since it is my responsibilty to keep my daughter safe even though as a child would cry through a fit, proable hate me but the horse would have to go, b/c that is what a parent does.

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Nerve problems in the back are a viable reason for this behaviour. However, it doesn't even come close to excusing the behaviour. Bottom line is HOSPITALIZED. TWICE. Both from explosive fits of bucking.

Apparently when this owner/rider was younger (lighter?) she and the horse got along. Makes a case for severe, 'pinching nerve' back pain to be the cause.

However ... 'running around' was mentioned by this young lady twice. Do we really know if she's the kind that just likes to stick her spurs in one and yee~haw all around?

Maybe he hurts ... maybe it's legit ... MAYBE he's like the old pig of mine who just will take advantage and pitch when he can. Who really knows past the fact that TWICE he's landed her in a hospital room. We've all been to the ER for horse related injury. Once could be 'shame on him'. TWICE could be 'shame on her'.

I think it's time for a reality check when you've twice suffered the same fate from using a horse within the normal parameters of his job. Horses run. They are made to run. This poster apparently LIKES to run.

NEXT horse is my advice. How she disposes of this one is entirely on her.

Would any of you who advocate for this horse like to take him on? Put YOUR kid on him? Sell him to a person who didn't have a LOT of experience and a good healthy sense of self~preservation? Donate him to a camp or TH program with a clear conscience? Euthanizing is a serious matter but so is putting yourself in harms way with a horse who can't be trusted.

I submit if you'd like to take him on ... contact this poster.

Not sure 'common sense' is lacking in any one who says move ON from this horse before becoming yet another one of the wheelchair people or the family is looking at a pretty, buckskin horse and mourning a daughter.

Edited by quarterflash

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I happily watch my daughter ride around on a lovely bald-faced sorrel horse with a few fancy socks and a belly spot. He's safe. He might not be the most exciting horse in the world, but for a 13 y/o? He's lovely. He wants to do the right thing. I corrected him while riding with both spurs at the same time. He breathed out hard one time and grunted a bit. No bucking. It NEVER even CROSSED his MIND as an option.

Safe horses are out there.

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I think it was Kenny Rogers that wrote, sang that song... know when to hold, and when to fold them.

It seen to fall in line with what we all have to consider sometimes with knowing when to call it quit.

Us horse folks must understand there are some out there that are un trainable.

Some of these same type horses have put people in their grave, because the indivdual didn't know what they were seeing and dealing with, possibly lacking the knowledge and skills, they put themselves at risk and also the horse.

As a horseman, I must evaluate everything to determine if I can realistically change the dangerous horse and it's behavior and to make the horse a safe riding mount for the public.

Some of these type of horses are better suited for the rodeo bucking circuit where the quality of a bucking horse is sorted after and they bring about a good price when selling them.

Disposal of the horse to the right place would be the proper thing to do, so, that is my recommendation to you or anyone in that position.

I hope this insight helps.

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I dont see how a horse whos bucked once, (they didnt even say violently, they said he bucked, it was at a hgih speed) is now some untrainable monster that needs to be turned into horsie steaks. honestly, i wouldnt put a 13 year old on a 3 year old either, but thats what happened. also, this girl has had this horse six years. two times ever out of 6 years is a good record in my book. i know horses shouldnt buck, i realize this, but they do.

i dont see how bucking once and the OP falling off the horse makes this horse a dangerous horse. I understand she was seriously hurt, but that doesnt make the horse dangerous. it makes the situations that the OP was in dangerous.

stuff happens IMO

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IMO:(Not saying I'm right, but my opinion.)

Yes, it was wrong of the mother to buy this 13 year old girl a 3x training reject, BUT what if these weren't the high class trainers some of us are used to OR couldn't it be possible the mother could've been lied too or something when she bought the horse. I just can't picture that some mother would put her child on a wild 3 year old.

No, I don't think the horse should be killed or anything. I think that he should be sent to a professional horse trainer for a refresher on some ground work on respecting a human on the ground AND as a rider.

If the horse was a BEAST or KILLER, when she fell off he would've purposely came back but he didn't. What the girl failed to mention was HER experience level.

Now someone PLEASE tell me if your galloping your horse, like she was doing, and the horse gets spooked and a bird, or bag, he's not going to duck or buck or something? I know that its NOT good for a horse to do that but it does happen. So what probably happened b/c we were all young at one time and wanted to race through the field she was probably OVER his neck like a race horse and when then horse jumped, bucked, stumbled, shied, or whatever she fell straight DOWN b/c she didn't have any balance. So, it seems to me it was a RIDER yes RIDER error.

So to sum it up it sounds like this is NOT a horse that should be killed but simply one that needs a ground work REFRESHER and a MORE EXPERIENCED rider.

Edited by StarLights Fancy

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So to sum it up it sounds like this is NOT a horse that should be killed but simply one that needs a ground work REFRESHER and a MORE EXPERIENCED rider.

I have ridden a lot of cold backed horses, broncy 2 year olds, happy/high horses and have always put up with it. Longeing, more riding time, patience fixes pretty much most of it. I also consider myself an experienced rider, but would I want to put time into this horse...

most likely not. He is a supposedly broke older gelding, who has a tendency to dump his riders.

I can understand 2 year olds getting broncy the first ride or two, I understand cold backed horses, I even understand the hot Thoroughbreds that like to bounce around some. But a broke older horse who just likes to spontaneously buck. No way, way too un-predictable.

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I dont see how a horse whos bucked once, (they didnt even say violently, they said he bucked, it was at a hgih speed) is now some untrainable monster that needs to be turned into horsie steaks. honestly, i wouldnt put a 13 year old on a 3 year old either, but thats what happened. also, this girl has had this horse six years. two times ever out of 6 years is a good record in my book. i know horses shouldnt buck, i realize this, but they do.

i dont see how bucking once and the OP falling off the horse makes this horse a dangerous horse. I understand she was seriously hurt, but that doesnt make the horse dangerous. it makes the situations that the OP was in dangerous.

stuff happens IMO

Go back and READ the original post, the mother bought this horse after THREE TRAINERS rejected it as rank. The op also commented that this horse broncs every rider but 'her'. That is the definition of a rank horse.

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Go back and READ the original post, the mother bought this horse after THREE TRAINERS rejected it as rank. The op also commented that this horse broncs every rider but 'her'. That is the definition of a rank horse.

One other thing people are missing here, I think ...

She's had the horse 6 years. He's put her in the hospital TWICE, with serious, severe injuries in the last year. No one else can (will?) ride this horse. THAT tells me that this horse bucks more often than what is said and she's only come off twice. Maybe he was just more determined the last 2 times to unseat her?

I'm thinking this is a rank horse too, like exes says. Just because she was "only" hospitalized twice does NOT mean he's only bucked twice. And this is a 9 year old horse this kid has been riding for awhile. As in for 6 years. My suspicion is he's gotten progressively worse. I mean, she was hospitalized twice, so obviously the horse went without a rider for a considerable length of time in the last year.

So once pain is ruled out (and I'm pretty sure it will be), then I'm leaning towards a rank horse. All the indicators are there, according to what the owner herself says. Did anyone even SEE the title of this thread?

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So just this morning I had a five year old put down because of a particularly dangerous issue coupled with extreme unpredictability (the horse is still warm). It would be possible to cure the problem over a two or three year period with substantial risk to my own neck. The problem was only discovered recently, and a client that very much wanted the horse had to be told that the horse is no longer for sale. The client in question most certainly would have ended up in hospital maybe not this year but certainly within two or three years. Even if a full disclosure was made, the client if very badly injured with $200k + medical expenses would certainly try to sue. In such a case I could potentially loose my house etc. (insurance is not as good as you might think, and is not worth the risk in the first place). The horse was essentially unsalable, and I decided to remove all future risk (the vet had for some time expected this).

However on the other hand if I had a horse I trained to a high level (for example Prix St. George and above) and I took it for a flat out gallop in the bosque, needlessly pushing it beyond its natural limits and I come off and got smashed up with time in the hospital; my colleagues and family would blame me entirely for being an irresponsible selfish idiot not exercising sound judgement. Nobody would ever think to have the horse put down. If I did this twice in one year then this would be grounds for divorce!

O.K. supposing OP does get rid of the horse; in my mind that does not cure the problem. OP is 19 years old and needs to grow up a bit and to learn how to exercise sound judgement and not to blindly push horses beyond their capability, temperament and training. Unless OP learns to deal with and solve these types of problems then she will most certainly end up in hospital again from a different new horse. OP is not a little girl anymore, but a young adult and needs to take responsibility for the decisions she makes. All of the clients I train regardless of how nice/expensive their horses are I always strongly recommend that they try to ride as many different horses as possible; this is the only way to develop good horse sense and sound judgement. OP get your leg over as many other horses as you can and develop your craft sensibly preferably with a good trainer; cheap and short sighted solutions will put you back in the hospital no matter what.

Good Luck!

(I’m sure by now OP stopped reading this thread three pages ago)

Cheers,

Eric

Edited by Danish WB

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You can bomb proof a horse. To a certain extent you can idiot proof horse but you can’t irresponsible-a-proof a horse!

Still sounds like a back issue, and OP didn’t exacerbate the problem when perhaps she was of a very slight build back then being a thirteen year old girl. Heavier riders such as friends and trainers probably triggered something in the horse's back. Now that OP is 19 years old she is probably heavier and now triggers the back problem?

Edited by Danish WB

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"(I?m sure by now OP stopped reading this thread three pages ago)"

I think her mind may have closed on this issue but the debate rages on and on. So many unknowns and emotions attached to this that we could continue to kick it around for weeks. Everyone is giving advice from their experience with perhaps more wisdom than can be accepted by the people who are emotionally invested in this horse. We aren't talking about an old junker of a car to be scrapped but an animal of flesh and blood who MAY have a physical or emotional weakness. No one wants to be hurt and certainly any sane person should be very interested in managing the risk of any endevour. We have all offered our opinions to the person that has asked and posted them for all to read down the road who may face a similar situation.

That's all I have left to offer this thread.

William (historyrider)

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Knowing what 19 year old women/girls and their moms are like, I think there is more to this than meets the eye. I have a sense that OP’s mom is probably as hard as nails and is as tough as they come. I’m sure her mom has repeatedly warned her to exercise sound judgement. Maybe Op gets off on disregarding mom’s better advice and taring off with the horse. I’m sure her mom probably has reamed her at least three new one’s by now, for fear of one’s daughter’s life and spiraling medical costs etc. OP posts to look for sympathy (i.e. plays the victim) and looks for ammunition to throw back at her mom and avoid responsibility for her own actions. If she can blame it on her mom and the horse, then Op has gotten what she wants (three pages ago).

Seriously guys, read between the lines, I think the original post has BS intentions and she is trying to play the victim (In know its hard to take responsibility for such things at a young age).

(sorry if this seems harsh, dead horse still in the arena and too much coffee this morning!).

Edited by Danish WB

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