jushorsinroun

My Mare Was Seen By The Vet Today Its An Abscess

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Wow 500 bucks and she did not take rads? I would be a bit peeved.

So you are not pulling the shoes then?

Are you going to contact a good trimmer and get another opinion? I think several folks posted links or offered to get you in touch with a good one.

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Rollin - I'm in Los Angeles - An emergency ranch call is between $80 - $150 depending on the vet. This is just the ranch call, not services. If meds were given, blood taken, lameness exams, I could see it. An emergency after hours call, chest abcess lance, meds and bloodwork was $500 and I considered it a bargin.

My friend competed in KY at an invitational event. Mid trip (from California) the horse coliced. The vet and two tech arrived in the middle of the night and handled the colic, the vet and techs were there 6 hours - She paid less than $300. If this happens to you in Los Angeles expect to pay at least $1000.

Just depends on where you live and what the going vet rate will bear.

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Up here in N. ca I pay a $50 for ranch calls and higher up is a $100

if that vet charged $500 for checking a hoof then that is high price to pay.

heck when my new burro got something in his eye, and i had meds plus the vet flushed his eye etc. i payed 350 for it and the animal wasn't easy to handle either.

she can also check out ABC hoof care group in OR who may know of a good trimmer in her area or join the yahoo group.

the most important thing also is Educate yourself, because not all vets are right or care. i had a run in with one over a new client who horse was knuckling over and that vet refused x-rays etc and just used a hoof tester and said the animal would be fine in 2 months with wedges and shoes. Guess what 8 months later the animal is still knuckling and the owner keeps chanting the vet said..... i never touched the horse for a trim because i wanted to see x-rays etc. i am sure he has tendon damage now!

so sometimes as owners we need to go with our gut and say "I don't agree"

and get another vet etc out.

but my .02 cents

Rollin - I'm in Los Angeles - An emergency ranch call is between $80 - $150 depending on the vet. This is just the ranch call, not services. If meds were given, blood taken, lameness exams, I could see it. An emergency after hours call, chest abcess lance, meds and bloodwork was $500 and I considered it a bargin.

My friend competed in KY at an invitational event. Mid trip (from California) the horse coliced. The vet and two tech arrived in the middle of the night and handled the colic, the vet and techs were there 6 hours - She paid less than $300. If this happens to you in Los Angeles expect to pay at least $1000.

Just depends on where you live and what the going vet rate will bear.

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Rollin - I'm in Los Angeles - An emergency ranch call is between $80 - $150 depending on the vet. This is just the ranch call, not services. If meds were given, blood taken, lameness exams, I could see it. An emergency after hours call, chest abcess lance, meds and bloodwork was $500 and I considered it a bargin.

My friend competed in KY at an invitational event. Mid trip (from California) the horse coliced. The vet and two tech arrived in the middle of the night and handled the colic, the vet and techs were there 6 hours - She paid less than $300. If this happens to you in Los Angeles expect to pay at least $1000.

Just depends on where you live and what the going vet rate will bear.

It really seems to me that she was taken advantage of by this vet. You have to remember that she had made a daytime appointment (non-emergency vet call) for the following day at 10 AM during normal business hours on a weekday, and once the vet got there didn't do anything else except treat the abscess. It's not like that vet dropped everything in the middle of the night on a weekend and went straight out there. You paid $500 in Los Angles for a emergency after-hours call, abscess lance, meds AND bloodwork. I just don't see how this vet of hers could have justified charging her as much as she did. Edited by Rollin_after_a_bath

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Okay here the next line of questions:

what are you feeding her?

when i took in a rescued neglected foundered mammoth jennet, I had to put her on a strict diet etc.

she was 11 years old and it took me a year (and i even e-mailed pictures to my mentor and other trimmers monthly to review her foot!)

I am assuming the vet *thinks* she foundered with out seeing x-rays etc? a clubby foot can also mimic founder if left untreated, too high of feed (sweets, carb can cause stress rings.)

the list can go on and on.

Not trying to flame or bash just saying. I would really like to see whole body pictures and in depth pictures of all 4 hooves.

yes the heel bulb is considered part of the hoof, even though it is flesh it part of the foot :-)

as i stated before deep thrush can cause her issues and soaking is how you treat it.

white lighting and vingar.

remeber with boots that the hoof will sweat in it, so you have to take them off to allow the hoof to air etc. when you do that stall her in deep shavings to comfort her sore foot.

she has a flat sole, and i have seen a few. I have never seen one sore after a trim, unless trimmer has taken off way too much sole.

when you lift her hoof can you see pink, red and basicly the live sole???

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Rollin--- I also live in South eastern Arizona and $500 is about average for a farm call around here no matter what they did.

Horsin-- I did send you a pm so that we might be able to get you squared away with a good vet and farrier to get your mare back on track.

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Rollin--- I also live in South eastern Arizona and $500 is about average for a farm call around here no matter what they did.

Horsin-- I did send you a pm so that we might be able to get you squared away with a good vet and farrier to get your mare back on track.

Hey mtn_penny -- you rock! Haven't seen sheepdog here for awhile ... all OK?

My husband is thinking he wants to sell most of the horses, all the cows, re-home the goats and turkeys and buy a winter home in AZ. I'll tell him about the vet calls! [ROTFL]

Oh, and I just wanted to extend a "welcome" to "CFA"!

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Rollin--- I also live in South eastern Arizona and $500 is about average for a farm call around here no matter what they did.
Yikes... I would hate to think about what she would have been charged if she had called the vet out for an emergency call. Here in Oklahoma, for $500 that vet better have surgically sewn on a brand new gold-plated hoof! Edited by Rollin_after_a_bath

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I am not sure if I mentioned this before but she was at the vet a year ago and I had blood work and a lot of other test done on her. All came back good. He didn't take x-rays but he did the hoof test and watched her walk, trot and run. He said she is in good health.

This just bugs the ever loving heck out of me. You said yourself in the very first post that her feet looked terrible when you got her 3 years ago. If they looked last year when you had her to the vet like they look in these pics and your vet said they are fine. You need to fire that vet and find someone new. I"ve dealt with vets that are more cattle vets and don't know squat about horse in the past. Sure, they tell you everything is fine but it's not really. I have to agree about the amount you were charged. Youch.... The vet I use, he came out to a friends barn. Did 4 -6 rads (can't remember), palp'd a mare, and did some other stuff and only charged $250. He came out and euth'd 3 horses for me and total bill was $82. That included the farm call.

I'm with everyone on here. Get x-rays NOW. Don't wait 7-10 days. Pull the shoes and pad the crap out of her feet. You can get Yoga mats or garden kneeling pads. Yoga mats you'd have to do double thickness, and gorilla tape or duct tape. pad her feet so she can get moving. The movement will help with the abscess and find a good barefoot trimmer. They will get her feet back inline for you.

PLEASE get her x-rayed NOW. Go to a university if you have to. What pain she might go through to get there will be made up for in the progress you can start making NOW. Not 10 days from now.

Good luck with her.

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Andi I will check, I am not sure.

Rollin...., I was just defending myself to rude comments made on the other thread. I am a good person and take care of my animals. I wasn't trying to be rude just state the facts, sorry if you took it the wrong way. BTW yes it was just under $500.00. 50+ was for bandage which I have call in to question that. 150.00 for them to come out and see her. Incl. emergency call and exam. I will get the bill later and let you know what I was all charged for. This was a new vet as I don't like the 3 local ones out here because they have steared me wrong! I am tired of deep pocket vets and farriers!!!!

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Wow, $500 for a vet visit? When Chief colicked, the bill was $500 something for an emergency after hours visit, banamine, tubing twice over three days, another farm call, and vaccinations for Rosie! The after hours farm call alone was $125.

Oh, and speaking of the Davis boot, I remember some time back someone had mentioned a good way to get the boot off. I read it AFTER I had to CUT the Davis boot off of Rosie's foot! The suction just did NOT allow me to pull it off!

Does anyone remember that, or how DO you get a Davis boot off once it's been on with soaking solution inside?

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Hey mtn_penny -- you rock! Haven't seen sheepdog here for awhile ... all OK?

My husband is thinking he wants to sell most of the horses, all the cows, re-home the goats and turkeys and buy a winter home in AZ. I'll tell him about the vet calls! [ROTFL]

Oh, and I just wanted to extend a "welcome" to "CFA"!

HI Jacking the post....... We have just been really really busy. Still dealing with estate stuff 3 years and looks like at least one more and that is only if we can sell a couple of properties in a year. OH you just said you wanted to move.... I know of a really nice house that could go on th market. has horse pens and a large shop/ garage.... Oh but I would not re-home the goats bring them along there are all kinds of weeds that need ate here in AZ. lol

as for the vet prices-- a couple of years back we had to call a vet out for a mild colic. I had already administered probiotics, electrolytes and banimine and he was perking up but we called the vet to make sure it was not serious. Anyhow she gets there and does not even oil the horse gave him another round of the above 3 items and handed me a bill for $375. BTW the bill was also over $100 more than the original quote I was given. I feel the reason large animal vets in the area are on the expensive side is that there is very little competition so you do what you have to do to make things right.

Ditto Andi--- welcome CFA

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If you really want to argue and debate who said what etc, then take it to the debate board. I can lock and/or delete this thread just as all the others have been.

This forum is for helping the horse, and educating their owners on hoof care. Please give your help and or advice on that. Nobody learns or accomplishes anything when emotions take over.

Edited by Mudder

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Wow. I don't come up here for a couple days and find this.

This is unfortunate. Based on the info I think I understand from all the posts, this mare is not getting the help she needs. This is everyone's fault. I know you just spent a fortune only to be told the mare is fine, but you need Xrays here. Her feet are not normal and I can't believe that she is sound. If she was truly sound, she wouldn't need the shoes. Why is she shod? If you pull the shoes before having appropriate boots like the Easyboot RX or just Easyboot *type* boots, Cavallos, etc.. with pads (dome pads come to mind), this mare very well could crash. Also be prepared to be there cleaning, disinfecting and removing boots on a daily basis. The hooves already look bad enough, I could only imagine where the coffin bones actually are.

These things need to done:

1. Assess the diet. No/low sugar, no/low starch and it MUST have a good mineral profile to it. This includes vitamins, minerals and trace Minerals. Smartpaks has alot of very good generic supplements that either match big brand names or exceed them without being too expensive. You must get those hooves growing so the farrier has more to work with when he comes out. Smarthoof comes to mind.

2. Xrays! At this point, you don't need an evaluation. You need Xrays. Digital would be preferred as they show you alot more than older film xrays. It might be worth it to haul the mare somewhere a couple of hours away to get a better price and better info.

3. Better farrier work. I don't know if you've used the same farrier for the pas three years or not. If you have, I'd be shopping for someone new. If this is a new farrier, I actually sympathize with him as you are asking alot from him and giving him nothing to work with by not providing Xrays.

This mare needs to be reset every 5-6 weeks or trimmed every 4-5 weeks. This may vary a little, but I would not let her feet go past 6 weeks no matter what is done with the feet. If the shoes are pulled, be prepared to do like above stated. If the mare is shod, I'd be working on backing the toe up, lowering the heel and I'd probably want to have some sort of packing in the sole to support the bottom of the foot. Correcting these feet shouldn't take more than a year, especially if shod.

Better pics at this point would be helpful too. There is alot that is obvious by the pics posted, but there is probably alot more that isn't because the feet aren't shot at good angles or clean. A body shot would be nice too since it looks like you're dealing with confo issues. Is the mare pigeon toed? It looks that way from the pics that are posted. With better hoof confo, that would be alot less obvious.

As always, better now then never. I know I can be blunt, but I don't mean to accuse.

Edited by ..::Felda::..

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OMG there is so much good info on here, thank you ALL! Okay got a farrier coming out tomorrow to take the shoe off. I am so confussed as to what to do. So I am going to follow what all of you are saying and have the shoes removed. Felda, I have went thru 5 farriers so far with her and now 3 vets. I know that there is a lot of questions asked here waiting for my answers. I will get to them I promise. I am trying to do a lot of education stuff on hoofs and my mind in so full!

I will get those pictures up for you all. I am trying to upload them now but computer is so friggin slow right now, sorry.

Thank you all!!

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Take a pen and paper and write everything down lol then you dont HAVE to run to the computer everytime you forget something.... Its what i do.... LOL :winking:

NOT to hijak this thread but does anyone know where i can find a boot like the Davis boots only in MINI sized???? I havent found one anywhere and thankfully i havent neededone but id like one handy incase i do need one

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[Huggy] LOTS OF HUGS AND WELL WISHES for you and your mare. My horse and I are experiencing our first abscess, and it was frightening at first. Not to mention that on top of everything else you guys are going through! To be honest I lurked here for a while, and asked for critiques of my horse's hooves before I decided to make the switch. I had farrier after farrier tell me my horse needed wedge pads to make up for his lack of heel. Turns out, all my horse needed was the flares addressed and toes taken back (slowly), amazingly he grows plenty of heel! Not to mention, although he is fairly flat footed, he has no problem on virtually any terrain.

These folks have been great in advising me, and point lots of us in the right direction, to transition to barefoot, and learn about growing a healthy hoof. I know you are in a bad spot right now, stuck between listening to people who claim to be professionals, and helping your horse in pain. I hope you get her comfortable soon! And I wish you the best.

I hired a barefoot trimmer almost two years ago, and I have been trimming my own horse for one year, she still helps me a lot.

Good luck!

Edited by RickisSweetSmoke

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Just got in from soaking it and doctoring it! She is doing AWESOME. She walks with out a limp! I am so happy that she is feeling better! Now to continue with all the info I got on here as well as my googleing! I am a google freak! I am making my notes from this thread as we speak so I can continue my education of hoofs.

I will still be posting any answers waiting to be answered and pictures.

Thank you everyone! I greatly appreciate it.

I have one question. The box that the boot came in says to slip it over the shoe. The vet said to leave the shoe on. So why remove the shoe? I just want to be clear on the reason for the removal of the shoe. The abscess is above the bulb and the other end is in the sole nothing to do with where the shoe is. Just got to ask so I understand the reasoning. Thanks!

Also thank you for the PM's helping me too! You all are GREAT!!

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The hoof is unbalanced, and to have a good soak (heel expand right)

When a hoof is not trimmed right can cause under lying issues, last thing you want to do is throw extra weight onto it.

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First off let me get off by saying your statement; **BTW to the person who wrote on the other thread, I have more funds available to me to care for my animals then needed by 10 folds that is what happens when you are left money when your Dad with money dies in 2009. Please get your facts straight before assuming anything! was completely unneccessary and sick sounding. Never would I brag about benefitting from a death in my family. You can PM that to the person who deserves to hear it. Don't pull your argument into a new topic, when you yourself asked for those who said unkind things to not post..

Off to the horse, I hope the shoes were pulled, an abcess is best treated without shoes on. I see you purchased boots, thats a huge step forward. Have you gotten X-Rays? I am expecting this horse to have something wrong internally with that hoof. The wall looks collapsed. We had a Thoroughbred mare who had feet that looked like your mares and was eventually diagnosed with Navicular and euthanized. She had been suffering for years with low heel/long toe, and if we would of gotten her a few years younger we could have made the situation better than it turned out, the hoof will need to be trimmed with the toe a tad bit shorter than the heel (a good farrier can better explain this).

I also would recommend putting her on a Biotin supplement or a feed with Biotin in it. I know LifeDesign carries a feed that has Biotin in it already, but I am not sure of the specific type. Hoof Flex is a good supplement and is available in a pellet form for picky eaters. Alot of people swear by Horseshoer's Secret, but I have no personal experience from it.

Have you been calling different farriers? I would start searching immediately and explain the situation to the farrier and see what he suggests. Ask him to be completely honest with you about his capability to help this horse get to a manageable point. I believe she has went too long with that hoof problem for it to ever be 100% corrected, but I could be proven wrong.

I would get in contact with a trainer who could recommend you some professional guidance also. They usually know the best of the best and would point you in the right direction.

Hope to hear recovery is going well..

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The reason to remove her shoes (yes both) is not the abcess which is just a symptom of her terrible foot condition...It is to allow her to grow out that horrific forward flair/founder and grow in a new tight white line and regain her concavity. You cannot build concavity in a hoof by cutting it out. The horse HAS to GROW it out! A tight white line sucks that bone right back up into the foot and voila! concavity shows up.

Do not remove her shoes till you have hoof boots and pads IN HAND however and have seen a reputable barefoot trimmer and have a set of X rays in hand. THEN remove the shoes and trim the feet for healing and boot and pad her to protect her soles while she grows out that horrific foot. This is a long term process of months to regrow it back to normal and get rid of the probable thrush and decontract her heels etc...

Once its grown out and in insides of the foot is healed, you will be able to shoe her again. BUT, you have to give shod horses a break from shoes now and then and allow the feet to relax back to normal. Otherwise these problems come back....Bad shoeing makes it come even faster. Leaving shoes on too long is also terribly detrimenta to the health of the foot.

The old time farriers used to say shoes were a necessary evil. They are not good for the health of the foot is what they all acknowledged but in those days they didnt have things like hoof boots to be able to give the horse a break from the shoes and still be sound and useful.

Most horses got their shoes pulled in the winter and turned out till spring which gave them the break from the shoes.

You horse needs to heal and rebuild her feet. Particularly the one. Shoes is not the way on this one due to the weakened white line and flat foot.

More clear now?

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Thank you trinity, CFA and even S.O. Turn. But S.O. I think Mudder said to stick with helpful info, so you are out of line!!!!!!!! Way out of line with your first comment! Stay out of what has nothing to do with you. I am NOT Bragging I miss my Daddy VERY much. But when someone says that I can't afford to take care of my animals I needed to get my point across that I CAN! I was reacting to someone pissing me off, I am not one to talk like that. BTW after I posted this thread I did PM that person I should have erased that coment on the post, it was only ment for that person. And that person still came on here, but that person stoped in their tracks when Mudder made the point! This stops here, I am learining a lot and I don't want my thread locked. If you want to further this confersation PM me dont screw my thread up! You are the only one now that could mess it up by the comment, because I WILL defend myself. With that said thank you for the good info you had to say! I am wanting to learn as much as I can and I am listening to everyone and what they have to say. No one has scared me away and not come back. Been here for awhile I know how some are. I got your point, and I see where my anger got to me, so please no more!

If anyone wants to slam me please do it via PM so my thread can stay up so that I can continue to get the help I need for my mare and all my horses future for that matter! Thank you!

As I said been calling many farriers and have someone on here helping me out with finding the right farrier! Thank you!

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I'm hoping that the people that sold you the boot mentioned that you should not boot just one hoof? You have to do your best to keep the horse balanced. If you don't, you risk compromising the other foot. (think Barbaro laminitis...he had to be put down not because of the original injury, but laminitis in the adjacent hoof)

As soon as possible, get someone out to pull the shoes, balance the feet, and get both feet booted so that she is not having to get sore elsewhere.

Abscesses in this case are most likely due to separation. I would bet that there is a pretty major lamellar wedge going on..lots of separation whcih allows gunk up in there and can cause infection. If you can get that addressed sooner rather than later, you may be able to avoid future abscesses and keep her much more comfortable.

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Buddyroo, the vet at first said to get two, then she said just put an old towl one inch think on the back side of the other leg and wrap it tight. ugh I am doing that, should I not be? She mentioned that horse you said too! OMG so many people telling me so many different things. I just want my mare safe and sound. I am going to buy another boot tomorrow am, Thanks Buddyroo!!!!!!!!!

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BTW after I posted this thread I did PM that person I should have erased that coment on the post, it was only ment for that person. And that person still came on here, but that person stoped in their tracks when Mudder made the point!

I need to make it VERY clear to you that earlier on when I was questioning the vet bill it was FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! I honestly thought that vet was ripping you off, and I didn't want that to happen to you. I was merely trying to state that never, ever have I had a vet come out - simply clean up an abscess - and charge me $500 to do it. If you thought someone was being taken advantage of wouldn't you want to speak up about it???

HC is a wonderful place to find helpful, knowledgeable people who can HELP. But please don't start asking for help and then turning around and not do a SINGLE thing that has been suggested to you. WHERE ARE THE RADIOGRAPHS? WHY are you waiting 10 days to get them done? Where are the newest updated full-body-shot pictures of the horse? Please understand that these are things we need to have and to see in order to help you move forward!

- Edited this whole paragraph out because it very well may have gotten me banned -.

A helpful link for you: http://www.hoofabscess.com/ It says the shoe needs to be pulled for one...

Another helpful link: http://hoofrecovery.blogspot.com/2009/09/a...-revisited.html It says your horse needs to be barefoot.

A whole page full of farriers in Arizona with their phone numbers: http://horses-arizona.com/pages/farriers.html

Another whole page full of farriers in Arizona with their phone numbers: http://www.arizonastatefarriersassociation.com/members.html

Oh and to answer your question about WHY the vet told you to keep the shoe on - it was because you didn't have an easyboot and padding at the time.

Edited by Rollin_after_a_bath

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Rollin, That comment had nothing to do with what you said believe me. It was on another poster on the other thread! I thought that the vet call out here was high myself! 50+ for the dressing they used omg I could buy 2 years worth with that much money! It was nothing to do with you!

My pictures are not uploading for some reason so my hubby is going to do it for me from his work tomorrow. I have been tring all day! UGH!!!!

As far as the X-rays i have called every equine vet in tucson and they all said that waiting until the mare gets clear of the abscess to get x-rays is the best thing. We are dealing with 2 different issues. The old founder is just for future help. She was tested by the vet and 3 farriers for naviculer and it comes back good.

I have been doing things that people have said.

Thank you!

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Rollin, I just checked and it was you, sorry I had you screwed around with someone else. You said it was money issue on my end and that the vet "you" thought for sure wanted to do it. I called them out and told them to bring the portable x-ray machine. so it wasn't me. I will spend what I gotta spend on an any of my animals just like I would my kids! I am glad to see that you are going away from the flair now and trying to help me I appreciate that. All the help I can get is great!

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