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sadie5

Gender Reassignment

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Yes Andi. Serios issues is correct. The issue is with WHO they feel inside their mind they are.

It isn't JUST about sexual preference. It is about how they see themselves LIVING.Their idenitity.

Piercings,tattoos and augmentations are not the same thing in the mind as those things don't change HOW the person lives.Gender reassignment isn't about changing one small thing(no pun intended here!LOL) it is about completely changing how they interact with society and how that makes them feel about themselves.

COMPLETELY different mindset and much more complicated.

Edited by ShelleyC

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Yes Andi. Serios issues is correct. The issue is with WHO they feel inside their mind they are.

It isn't JUST about sexual preference. It is about how they see themselves LIVING.Their idenitity.

Piercings,tattoos and augmentations are not the same thing in the mind as those things don't change HOW the person lives.Gender reassignment isn't about changing one small thing(no pun intended here!LOL) it is about completely changing how they interact with society and how that makes them feel about themselves.

COMPLETELY different mindset and much more complicated.

First, let me say that the very fact I'm having trouble getting my head around this is a minor comfort to me. I'm always concerned that there is some truth to the trite saying 'so open minded her brains fell out'.

That being said ... I'm 54 and things are headed south. Gravity is taking it's toll and I no longer recognize the woman in the mirror or photographs sometimes. It'll get lots worse, if I'm lucky enough to keep breathing, but let's say I REALLY am ashamed of my new 'body image'. I can't compete with the 20 and 30 somethings in the job market and feel like if I had a more youthful appearance, it would help my 'professionalism' in terms of how I'm perceived (my face matches my attitude and my heart .... young) and how I feel about myself. My confidence would improve because I'd look better and as such, I'd FEEL better.

So ... should Portland's insurance company absorb the cost of my feeling better about myself?

I'm sorry ... I really don't see a sex change as all that much different? If people change genders to have a body that fits their inner vision of themselves .... or like Andi's case: the man still wanted to interract sexually with women, but he wanted to do it AS a woman? I'm not sure that's any more valid than 'my' wanting my drooping face and turkey wattles addressed.

Self image. Why is it only important in terms of reproductive parts?

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Quarterflash, that's where they could get you therapy instead of surgery. Your example is an issue of self-esteem, whereas gender reassignment is an issue of identity.

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Yeah .... I get that, but only to a point.

Say I feel like a freak with a baggy face? I guess that would qualify as 'identity'.

I'm sure not taking anything away from people with sexual identity issues ... please understand that. I'm glad I'm comfortable with my sexuality and have friends who aren't. I just don't see how their struggles are much different essentially than anybody else feeling betrayed by their bodies.

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I guess my question would be,...why would it be NECESSARY for you to understand it?

There are plenty of issues in life that we simply chock up to not understanding someone else's point of view.

Why do we care if someone else gets the coverage?

I have fantastic insurance right now. I don't think adding gender reassignment to Blue Cross Blue Shield is gonna make my rates go up!

Simply not enough folks doing it to cause that.

My father in law is an S.O.B who treated his body poorly but I don't want HIM denied the coverage because he did that and now wants to be healthier even though it's too late. His kidneys are kaput.

I don't have to understand why he's an S.O.B to want him to have the coverage he needs for his treatments though.

This is just one small thing someone wants to have done yet we support other folks having NUMEROUS needs for things I personally don't understand WHY they need it!

I can't for the life of me understand why someone would want to have 6 children!Yet they have the means to pay for them and are working and using company health insurance but I respect their right to have their families covered as well as their possible health issues that might crop up later on from a body that had 6 children.

I can think of lots of things I don't understand,..but I don't have to and it doesn't really effect me in the long run cuz the fact of the matter is,..procedures aren't what is causing the rates to go up. It's the fraudulant claims,malpractice suits, private medical supply companies and corruption of private insurance companies that is causing it.

My insurance is gonna continue to go up whether someone has gender reassigment covered or not.

Has nothing to do with it.

As for piercings and tattoos? If those things get infected,..insurance isn't gonna NOT cover it if the person needs medical treatment.

I guess I just don't see what the bog deal is unless it is someone's MORAL issue.

And QF? You and your baggy face are still gonna feel totally natural using a women's restroom. Try using a urinal and see if that doesn't give you some idea of how one MIGHT feel "unnatural".

Just a stupid analogy but it might lend some clarity to the feelings we are talking about with a person wanting gender reassignment and how THEY feel doing and acting and wearing certain things and how it effects what they do.

Personally? I dunno why ANY man would want to become a woman! It's a real pain in the rear in the workplace sometimes and estrogen isn't always real fun to work with!

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The fact that I don't see a clear line to sort by is what has me interested, Shelley. Truly? I don't give a rats what Portland (or the entire US, for this matter) does.

I only care that I can't see the definate line between correcting one of nature's nasty jokes and not another in terms of modern medicine.

Hey .... I've been in men's rooms. There's a 'throne'. As far as company goes, I guess I don't want to think of anyone in a sexual way in a public restroom unless I've specifically dragged them in there for that purpose. [Crazy]

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No one has answered my question. Where is the limit, what if I want another child by IVF or another way. It is medical and goes to my "emotional well being". What do I get ?

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No one has answered my question. Where is the limit, what if I want another child by IVF or another way. It is medical and goes to my "emotional well being". What do I get ?

This is a loaded question catch! :happy0203:

Oh, the answers I could come up with ... none of them appropriate, I'm sure, but still! [ROTFL]

***

In all seriousness, I am wondering something silly here ... I know there are laws, usually regulated by the individual states, regarding the amount a medical professional can charge for each, specific service. But insurance companies are privately owned, correct? So Unca Sammy is going to tell them what they have to cover?

I mean, it ticks me off that insurance does NOT cover BC, but they will provide pregnancy care for the baby from in vitro to their 20's ... they won't pay for fertility treatments, but they sure pay for the "fertile". What gives there?

And for those that are saying "but it's not the same as other stuff" ... so? Regardless, if they allow one, they should allow all.

Just sayin' ...

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I agree with you Andi, where do you draw the line, and if you are paying for "emotional well being" what will the cost be ? My infertility work ups resulted in my being diagnosed with cancer cell changes. I paid cash for the surgery to correct the problem since the insurance company kept telling me that infertility was not covered. Grey areas in healthcare can kill people.

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Catch,..I haven't answered you because I wasn't sure where you were going with your question?

There are currently 15 states that require insurance companies to cover IVF.

Arkansas

California

Connecticut

Hawaii

Illinois

Louisiana

Maryland

Massachusetts

Montana

New Jersey

New York

Ohio

Rhode Island

Texas

WestWest nile virus Virginia

Of course, each of these states has its own particular definition of what constitutes infertility

, as well as exactly how much coverage is required. In order to obtain the coverage you want, you'll need to make yourself very familiar with your policy, so you know exactly how to play your insurance company's game. Even though it will still take some self-education to use the benefits to which you're entitled, though, you're still way ahead of infertile couples in the other 35 states that don't require this coverage. Once you've learned the details of your infertility insurance coverage, you can begin to put those benefits to use and finally have the family you've longed for all these years.

:confused0024:

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Sorry I haven't been back to pots yet. I posted this minutes before walking out of the house, and was gone for the weekend.

Anyways, I agree with Andi and quarterflash. I understand how it is a deeper issue, but where do you draw the line?

And why should the tax payer have to pay for it? if someone wants a sex change, then so be it....but making the hard working people who may or may not agree with it?

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And why should the tax payer have to pay for it? if someone wants a sex change, then so be it....but making the hard working people who may or may not agree with it?

While I can appreciate your stance on the issue, I fail to see how it's a taxpayer issue? It's an insurance issue. So while some folks are taxpayers and may use this insurance (and therefore are paying into the pool for such services), it doesn't mean that this procedure is going on the taxpayer dime.

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"State Laws Related to Insurance Coverage for Infertility Treatment

Updated October 2009

Approximately 12 percent of U.S. women of childbearing age, about 1 in 8 couples, have received assistance for infertility. Usually, infertility is defined as the absence of conception after at least one year of regular, unprotected intercourse. More than 27,000 babies were born in the United States in 2005 as a result of non-donor assisted reproductive technology (ART) procedures. Common methods of infertility treatment include various insemination techniques and hormone therapy to stimulate egg production. Assisted reproductive techniques are procedures in which pregnancy is attempted through the use of external means; for example, eggs are fertilized outside the womb and then placed into a woman's uterus through in vitro fertilization (IVF).

Although advances in infertility treatment have helped thousands of couples become parents, the procedures are not without controversy. Such procedures can be quite expensive--on average each cycle of IVF costs, $8,158 plus an average of $4,000 for medications--and debate exists about whether insurance plans should be required to cover them. Cost estimates for insurance coverage of infertility treatments range from an additional $0.20 to $2.00 per member per month. Recently, studies have shown that assisted reproductive technologies have contributed to an increase in multiple births, which have a higher rate of prematurity than single births. In 2004, 8.1 percent of all newborns were low birthweight (less than 5.5 pounds), the highest percentage since the early 1970s. Preterm births cost society at least $26 billion per year.

Since the 1980s, 14 states?Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Rhode Island, Texas, and West Virginia?have passed laws that require insurers to either cover or offer coverage for infertility diagnosis and treatment. Twelve states have laws that require insurance companies to cover infertility treatment. Two states?California and Texas?have laws that require insurance companies to offer coverage for infertility treatment. While most states with laws requiring insurance companies to offer or provide coverage for infertility treatment include coverage for in vitro fertilization,California and New York have laws that specifically exclude coverage for the procedure."

No California is not amoung the states that cover IVF.

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Yes Andi. Serios issues is correct. The issue is with WHO they feel inside their mind they are.

It isn't JUST about sexual preference. It is about how they see themselves LIVING.Their idenitity.

This part, in re-reading it in reference to the case I have personal knowledge of, makes me laugh.

This was a man, who must have felt he was a lesbian trapped in a man's body! [ROTFL]

Sorry, but that really *does* make me laugh. I think most hetro men consider themselves a lesbian! But yeah, how much more messed up can a person get in regards to their "identity"?

***

catch? Your research pretty much tells what *I* figured they would do ... find ways around it so they don't have to pay for it directly but are still "compliant" with the law. Sucks.

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Guest cowgirlartist
Yeah .... I get that, but only to a point.

Say I feel like a freak with a baggy face? I guess that would qualify as 'identity'.

I'm sure not taking anything away from people with sexual identity issues ... please understand that. I'm glad I'm comfortable with my sexuality and have friends who aren't. I just don't see how their struggles are much different essentially than anybody else feeling betrayed by their bodies.

I agree, as one who was dealing with the flat chest issue, the Dr even referred to it as a deformity and at 28, finally being able to pay for it myself did wonders for me. Insurance wouldn't cover it, even though the Dr diagnosed the condition.

Before that, I was constantly mistaken as a young man, even pushed out of the ladies room by an attendant till she realized her hands were on breasts instead of chest. (Tiny though they were, not even an A) For halloween costume party at a local club,I was dressed as a wild west cowboy, along with 2 other girls, adding only a fake mustache. I was asked to dance by other girls, till I told them I was a girl too, and then when I did dance with a guy (wearing a diaper, carrying around a calf milk bottle and a bonnet on his head) people thought it was two guys dancing together. To avoid a fight from male on watchers, I took off my hat at the end of the dance,let down my waist length hair, took off the mustache and bowed at the conclusion of the song.

Then not being able to have children I really wanted, Insurance didn't pay for the $8,000 in tests, but it will pay for a guy to make whoopee when he wants?

That will really break a person down, just as bad as someone with gender identity issues.

No, I don't think Insurance should pay for that.. just because it isn't fair across the board in how it is decided as to what is covered and what isn't.

Edited by cowgirlartist

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CGA .... when I was 16 I thought I might like to ride straightaway horses on the bush track so I stripped enough weight off of my big, 5'10" frame to make weight.

Sadly, during that time I had one bad hair day too many. When my stylist asked what I wanted him to do ... I said 'Lose it!' He did.

I went to a rodeo with friends and a dance after. Wore very little make up at the time and was dancing with a pie~eyed drunken friend who literally passed out in my arms. As I'm dragging him off of the floor, the local hillbillies snatched us up and beat the living crap out of ME. He was too drunk to beat up and I was FURIOUS so I kept getting up when I'd get knocked down.

Getting thrown over a corrugated tin 'tent' on a horse shoe pit grabbed my shirt and the snaps gave. That time when I stood up .... my bra was showing. It was over then.

[shocked]

I was so stupid I had no clue I had just been beaten cause they thought we were gay.

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Flash, that's incredibly sad.

However, I do believe getting gay-bashed while not being gay earns you an honorary position in the Gaymune!

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:yahoo:

Finally! Those black eyes and big ol' split lips pay off!

Thank you, Cait!

Hey ... at 17 I knew one gay guy but he hadn't come out yet. I'm pretty sure getting beaten by a crowd tenderized me to hate crimes.

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While I can appreciate your stance on the issue, I fail to see how it's a taxpayer issue? It's an insurance issue. So while some folks are taxpayers and may use this insurance (and therefore are paying into the pool for such services), it doesn't mean that this procedure is going on the taxpayer dime.

Maybe I am too dumb to understand people's conversations, but from what I've heard or understood in real life convos with people, this money was going to come from the taxpayer.

ETA: The article says the city of Portland pays for it....doesn't that city money come form the taxpayer...????

Edited by RopingBarrels

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I do not think it should be part of the insrance. Not at all.

I get so tired of hearing the statement "I'm living in the wrong body"

These people need help for sure... but it's their minds that are wrong and need changed ... not their bodies.

..and I don't care if any of you agree with me or not. I believe it's their thinking that is wrong.

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Guest cowgirlartist
CGA .... when I was 16 I thought I might like to ride straightaway horses on the bush track so I stripped enough weight off of my big, 5'10" frame to make weight.

Sadly, during that time I had one bad hair day too many. When my stylist asked what I wanted him to do ... I said 'Lose it!' He did.

I went to a rodeo with friends and a dance after. Wore very little make up at the time and was dancing with a pie~eyed drunken friend who literally passed out in my arms. As I'm dragging him off of the floor, the local hillbillies snatched us up and beat the living crap out of ME. He was too drunk to beat up and I was FURIOUS so I kept getting up when I'd get knocked down.

Getting thrown over a corrugated tin 'tent' on a horse shoe pit grabbed my shirt and the snaps gave. That time when I stood up .... my bra was showing. It was over then.

[shocked]

I was so stupid I had no clue I had just been beaten cause they thought we were gay.

Wow, my experience didn't go that far, but that was the feeling I was getting on the dance floor with "Diaper Guy"! It was pretty obvious he was male, "I" was one they were sure of as well! When you see abunch of drunk guys lining up near the floor exit, rubbing their fists and pointing, I knew I had to disclose my identity pretty fast! [shocked] It avoided a whooping, and at 5'08", 125 lbs, I would have put my spurs to good use!

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I get what both sides are saying here. I think one of the issues with this is taxpayer $$ paying for these things, whether it be a breast job or a gender reassignment.

And not everyone that goes thru one is "happy" ... didn't anyone read my post about the man who had this surgery after leaving his wife and kids only to decide he (now she) is a lesbian? Heck, he could have stayed a man and married and been a lesbian! Obviously this person has some serious identity issues, which could be said about *anyone* who wants gender reassignment surgery, right?

Who someone is attracted to has nothing to do with what gender they are. This man did not feel right as a man, just because he elected to have the sex change to be a woman does not mean he has to be with men.

I'm just going to totally and completely ditto Ellie on this one. I think how these people feel is something beyond any of us who have never been through that. This coming from a girl who can barely fill and A cup bra and has struggled with being comfortable with her own body. Thankfully though, I've never questioned my sexual identity, I can't even imagine how difficult that would be.

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