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Dressage Chit Chat #28

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Awww Beck, that sucks :(

I was just talking to my boarder about the DT article by Hilda Gurney. I mean, I guess she has had some success (though I've only heard of her and the TB from the 60's), but the lunging 2-3 times a week as a 2-yo seems a bit excessive to me. As does the vet checking monthly every horse from the time they are weanlings until 2-yo, when they are started with lunging in a 20m round pen.

With Mir, I backed him at 2. As in, I sat on him occasionally, for no more than 15 minutes at a time. He had maybe 15 rides on him when he turned 3, and all he knew was how to trot, step into a canter, and steer. And stop. Very very very green. He got several months off over the winter before he turned 3, and then he didn't do much again until this spring. At this point, he has a bit more than 90-days of training I would say, but spread over 2 years. I also did VERY little lunging with him.

Annie is not doing much of anything until this fall/winter, when I will probably back her and then ignore her until she's 3 or so. She's at least 1.5" butt-high right now, which is a recent thing. However, I have saddled her, bridled her, sent her through the jumping chute once, taught her the very basics of lunging in a couple sessions, just with the lead rope and me walking a big circle with her. I do plan on long-lining her at some point, but really just at the walk.

If Rex were mine, I would probably back him this fall, get him w-t-c, stop, all in just a couple rides, and then ignore him for the winter. They seem to do most of their growing during the winter, and I've always been told to ignore them when they are actively growing. I don't think that doing some light lunging occasionally would hurt him, but I'm talking once a month, maybe twice a month, and just briefly. Just w-t-c on the line, 5 or 10 minutes, and then done.

Mir got started young because he NEEDED a job. He was just into everything, bored out of his mind. I also did a lot of showmanship-type work with him, took him for walks in-hand, got on Lucy and let him and Annie run after her in the pasture, things like that. He got bathed a ton, feet done often, gave a couple pony rides. I tried ponying him off Lucy, but he was terrified of her. If I had a good place around here to do it, I would keep ponying him or Annie, but I don't want to do it on the roads, and I can't drive them anywhere by myself.

The other thing you can do is catch him when he's laying down and stand over him, pet him all over, then progress to putting a tiny bit of weight on him. It gets them used to having a rider above them, which can be scary for some of them.

Edited by shiloh04

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Thanks guys. We really miss him...we had him for 18 years!

Shiloh- I saw that article but haven't read it. That is about what I did with Beckham. He was good at ground driving, etc. When he was two, that summer, I backed him. I spent a lot of time with manners in the cross ties and at the mounting block, etc. Short 15 minute rides mostly at the walk working on steering and stopping. He trotted a few times. He then had 6 months off over the winter where all he did was go out. I started back in the spring with walk trot, a clinic, and very little cantering that summer. He also went to a few shows in hand to get him out. Then, another winter off. Then as a four year old we showed intro and really started working at the canter.

I have no problem getting on them and getting them started. I didn't lunge him...I still don't. I also did a lot of taking him for walks on trails, etc. I wanted him to have some manners and learn some things before he got a mind of his own. Hard to believe he turned 7 on Friday!!!

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Hmmm... still conflicting info.

Rex will be 3 on June 7th. He did have an OCD lesion in his right hock at 18 months. As soon as this stupid refi goes through and my truck is paid off, I am using the extra $500/mo to take him down to have new xrays on both hocks and do whatever surgery he needs. Ive read a lot of times that young WBs have had xrays and had OCD lesions and then around 3 or so, they are gone due to the growth in the joint. It is also very possible that he only has it in his right hock (didnt xray the left at the time because I figured he had it in both and the price was adjusted to cover the surgery for both). He flexed and to this day moves 100% even.

I have lunged him like 3-4 times. The first 2 times were w/t in a halter on like a 30m or larger circle for like 5 mins each way. The 3rd time was for like 5-10 mins w/t/c in a halter both ways. The last time was the photos in the round pen. Thats it.

I have leaned on him and all and hes fine. No big deal. My thoughts were to do the w/t/c lunge maybe once every 3-4 wks if that and just let him keep growing.

As far as Layla and her new 'tude. I was talking to Jill and Jill did another one of her energy sessions on Mingo today and she felt that Mingo is actually taking on Jills issues. Once I thought about that it did click that Layla started her crazy antics about 4-5 days after my little meltdown from switching meds. I mean, BAD meltdown. So it is totally possible that she is feeding off of my energy that I dont even realize I am putting out. We are so totally connected that this does happen often. And yes, she is feeling better as well.

Beck, so sorry about the mini. *hugs*

Well all this talk about Rex has made me want to go out and groom and possibly address his mane. Maybe a lunge? Who knows.

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Shantel - if he is coming 3yo, then he is totally ready to step it up a little. For what it's worth, I'm a fan of lunging. I keep the sessions short. I want to establish who is the boss and make sure we all know what the words w/t/c and whoa mean. You won't kill him with some light lunge sessions once a week. I prefer it to ground driving simply because I do not know how to long line and/or ground drive, and when you add in that second line, especially with an unbalanced youngster, if you don't know what you are doing, you can really get yourself into trouble - the causing them to be further unbalanced and flipping them over kind of unbalanced if the/when they act silly. I'll stick to something I can't mess up that badly!!

Okay, gotta run and go help Jack fix dinner!

~Shelly~

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Beck-- :( so sorry.

Shantel- I agree with working just a little more-- before he gets too big! Maybe just haul him around to new places also, I know he did that one in hand show, so that's good.

Shelly- just curious, where is Jack from? The guy I like has english as a second language too.

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KTS - Jack is Armenian. He was born in Syria and moved here when he was 19yo. Didn't speak a word of English when he got here. Learned as he went. His English is actually very good, but sometimes subtle meanings aren't quite the same, so we think we are talking about the same thing, but we really aren't. THAT has led to some big misunderstandings!! HA!!

~Shelly~

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Well didnt lunge but groomed and worked on not begging and shoving his face all over looking for treats. When he left me alone, he got a piece of carrot. By the 4th piece, he had it figured out.

Shelly, I have long lined him once (his first time) and we were able to walk straight, turn both ways, halt, turn around, and do a big figure 8. Hes super smart and easy going. I think I will try just lungeing him once a week. He def needs a job. He gets into everything!

Alyse, I saw the pics of Benny on your FB! Hes SO cute. Love his face. Hows the whole herd doing? And what about your date (s)?

Going to order my show shirt and head to bed.

Oh and Jill talked me into trying this other supplement thing. Its $20 for 7 days (expensive!!! I know) but if you notice no changes, you get a full refund, including shipping. It apparently is really big in the barrel racing crowd. No herbs or drugs or anything illegal and will not test. I got this stuff called Focus. Supposed to just really cause them to be able to focus and not get all frazzled. So Jill and I both ordered a trial size. Seeing as we are both going to the show next weekend, it will be the true test. Layla becomes a SPAZ if you even act like you are going to take her away from another horse or vise versa. And then Sarah has to stand next to the ring with Ben so she doesnt have a complete meltdown. She gets herself so worked up that she makes herself look lame and just fries her brain. This stuff is supposed to help. If it really does what they say it will, then its certainly worth the $20 before a show.

http://www.performanceequineusa.com/calming.aspx

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That stuff sounds like it's just L-Tryptophan and Mg, for the most part. If that's the case, it's very overpriced. It'll be interesting to see if it works though.

So someone was supposed to come get my two tiny ducklings today. So I got myself cleaned up from doing stuff outside, dug out a box for the ducks, hung out outside for a while waiting for this person to show up (she called to say she had just left work and to double-check her directions). She never showed up. Maybe I mis-understood or something, but I don't think so. If she doesn't come tomorrow, I have someone else wanting to buy them.

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Shantel: Riley and Bennigan are on the mend, Amore is still better than before but not 100%.

As for the date . . . it went really well (ps, that's him on Ben- I tossed him up in loafers, and it was Ben's 2nd ride back, so it was just a light ride, he has the pics of me riding he needs to send me). I'm really falling for him, and having only fallen for one guy like this before, and I got a real quick wake up call on that one, so yeah, it's weird. He's totally flirty and all, but I can't tell if it's personal or his personality. I finally told him at the end of the night that I like him more than just a friend, and he seemed to take it well. I'm not sure what I should do next. I've kinda put together all of our meet-ups, though he asks to hang out and stuff, and now that I've put it all out there, I feel like I'm being too aggressive (although that is my weakest point, so I could totally be off base there!), and that I should lay low for a while and play it cool. But I don't want to! lol.

Any advice?

And if it doesn't work out, I can take all my frustration to the show ring, since Riley and I will be competing against him and his stallion at the shows this summer at the same level. Haha! Watch out buddy!

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That stuff sounds like it's just L-Tryptophan and Mg, for the most part. If that's the case, it's very overpriced. It'll be interesting to see if it works though.

That was precisely what I was going to say. Didn't see the L-Tryptophan stuff in it, but I certainly saw all the magnesium in it - same as feeding them Quiessence or Epsom Salt. Just a matter of how much you want to spend. I actually do think that Layla would do well with a Mg supplement of some sort though if she isn't already on one. If she is, I would be really careful adding this one on top of it. Mg is great, but too much isn't great.

~Shelly~

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Shiloh ? She called to say she was leaving work and confirm her directions, but never showed up?? That is really, really odd. Do you have a telephone number or way to contact her?? I think I would give her a call today if you can just to ask what happened to her. Perhaps she got lost and gave up, or maybe she got in an accident on the way over. You never know. If you have no way of contacting her, then I would give her to the end of the day to get in touch with you, then move on. Very, very weird indeed.

Alyse ? That is a really tough one. You do not want to chase. I tell Jack?s daughter that all the time. She is on the aggressive/pushy side, and tends to try to force things to happen. Sometimes you just have to sit back and wait to see how things play out. But, on the other hand, you don?t want to sit around forever and let an opportunity pass you by. When did you have your date? Last night? Give him at least 48 hours to get back in touch with you. If he doesn?t, then reach out to him. So give him some space so that you aren?t too aggressive, but not so much space that he can go wandering off!! Good luck!!!

~Shelly~

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So I think I finally recovered from the weekend. just in time to go back to work. YAY.I definately think saddle fit has something to do with it. The not moving off of leg is usually a sign of saddle issue for Cheese. So that means sell my current saddle and get another. I am really thinking about going treeless. I have borrowed a friend's treeless saddle and Cheese seemed to really like it. I am at the point if I sold my saddle I could afford one. However that would leave me saddleless for awhile. i think I have to go that route anyway. I started riding bareback in the meantime. Oy my legs feel it today.I could only post for like 15 min before I needed a break.

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The L-tryptophan wasn't written on the ingredients, but it said "branched-chain amino acids". There is actually some good research saying that supplementing l-tryptophan has NO effect on relaxation, calming, etc. They did several double-blind trials with it.

KTS, I wouldn't be too aggressive either. You've told him how you feel, now let HIM do some of the work. Generally when you start chasing too much, you turn them off. Even though men will say they like a girl who will ask them out, most really don't when it comes down to it. Just my experience.

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There is actually some good research saying that supplementing l-tryptophan has NO effect on relaxation, calming, etc.

I think it helps the riders psychologically, and therefore has a "trickle down" effect to the horses. The rider gives it to the horse, believes the horse will behave and be calm, and therefore the rider is more relaxed. Due to the rider's relaxation, the horse is more relaxed.

~Shelly~

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Layla is on mag and I have also supplemented with various other supplements. Hers is totally mental not physical. Ive used Quietex, Calm n Cool, and a few others. Most of the "calming" supplements will test, this wont.

Right now shes just getting 3000- mg a day. Performance horses can be on 1-3 GRAMS a day due to the work load. The more they work and use the muscles and build up lactic acid, the more they burn through the magnesium. Its fairly easy to see if they are getting too much magnesium, seeing as in large quantities it is a laxitive. It is not as "important" of a supplement to be worried about over supplementing compared to say, selenium or calcium.

I think that a lot of the things is not just the ingredients but the ratio of the ingredients to each other. I figure for 7 days and 100% money back guarentee, why not try.

Also, when it comes to mag, theres a lot of different types (sulfate, oxide, etc) and different ways to deliver it (transdermal, orally, etc). I have like 3 months worth of Mag 3000 powder from Smartpaks just sitting in my barn. She wont eat it. She hates the flavor of it. Also, the different types of mag come in different forms, therefore taking up more or less volume, which is very important with a horse like Layla.

Trust me, if there is a supplement for tension, anxiety, muscles, calming, etc - Ive tried it. Ive also done my own mixtures to make my own "labeled" supplement (like mixing my own mag and b1, etc) and it just doesnt cut the mustard.

Lunch is over..

Edited by KrazyTBMare

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KTS- Just to gauge his reaction...what did he particular say after you told him? Has he contacted you since? I've been told by numerous guys that it takes men 3-7days to contact you. Being in the single life now...haha...and oh how I've been enjoying it and I believe we are around the same age(ish) area. Personally I would lay low a little...let him chase you a bit. As men DO like the thrill of the chase. It's in their nature. No harm in contacting him or asking if he wants to go out or whatnot. But I wouldn't over-extend yourself on it. Let him come to you...play it cool and of course decidedly sexy. haha. But glad the date went well!!! Kick his butt in the show ring too!

CSA- I have a lesson @ 9:15 on Fri. AM. PM me with your decision :)

*sigh* Is there something wrong w/ me if I'm having a "Quarter Life Crisis"? I completely and utterly broke down (note I have never EVER cried in the pursuit of my college degree) after my Advance Acctg class today to my professor. And I'm really contemplating that this is NOT what I want to do. I'm struggling with the course load as being a full time student AND having a full time job...AND being an acctg major is extremely nerve wracking. And my heart really isn't into it. I do not put much effort into this class at all. And that really is a big sign that I'm not into it. And after sobbing to my prof about what direction I should go in my life...and that I'm worried that I won't graduate in December if I change my major. I am the type of person that sets a goal and GOES for it. This is extremely hard for me as I'm giving up on this degree. But really do I want to do this for a career?? So the verdict is that I don't...and I'm scheduled to talk w/ my prof (who is also my advisor and Head of the Business Program) to figure out how I can change my course criteria and still graduate in December. I also feel like I'm not good at anything in my life....like nothing? I was trying to grapple for something that I am good at....and all I came up with is that I'm a good drinking compantion That's it!!! Seriously, Lauren...alcohol. UGH. I'm also afraid that I won't get a job after completing this...are there jobs out there (no not really) and will a Business degree with Management and perhaps a concentration in finance really help me find a job?? I do enjoy the aspect of managing a group or a division and I think I would do ok in that position. Ok I'm done with my typing of various things going through my head today. I was so embarressed that I cried after class today. Walking out of the room a few of my classmates saw me and of course my eyes are a bit blotchy...I'm sure my mascarra was running down my face...and they all asked me if I was ok. Do I look OK???? NO! I'm not ok...I'm 24 almost 25 and I'm at a cross roads in my life. Most people my age have their degree and a job! Well I have a job...but it is something that I don't want to do forever..sister's business. Didnt say that but man that was what was running through my mind. Really I am done.

At least my ponyboy has been a doll.

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Shantel-Large amounts of magnesium has been shown to cause enteroliths. If that amount of magnesium isn't doing anything, I would stop feeding it. Especially since I believe you also feed alfalfa, which is another big cause of enteroliths.

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Shantel, 3000mg is 3g, and is really not that much. Lucy gets 10g a day, which is a normal dose for an average-sized horse. Any less than that and it's just a big waste for Lucy. I'm also cutting the alfalfa more and giving her more BP to keep her weight up. BP is still high in Ca, but not as much as alfalfa.

I personally think the "ratio" thing is bull, because it depends a ton on what is in the rest of the diet. So you could be paying a bunch of money for a supplement with the right "ratio", but you're feeding hay that's high in Ca or something, and throws off the whole "magic ratio". You cannot make much of a difference in the ratio with an ounce or two of a supplement if the rest of the diet is all wonky. You can supplement what's missing, but adding a supplement with a magic ratio is just a waste unless the whole rest of the diet follows said magic ratio.

Lauren, at this point I would finish the degree and graduate. That's what I did when I found myself in a similar situation, only in my case I figured it out early, but I would have had to stay an extra year to change majors due to the way the classes were offered and required. That would have put me at losing my scholarship, and $30k in student loans for one year didn't seem worth it. As it turned out, I didn't get a job in my major anyway. So check into what else you can do with this degree, or look at going to grad school, or getting this degree and then adding on some classes to finish with a second degree. And, in reality, the job is much more about who you are working for and with than the actual work in many cases.

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Lauren - I agree with Shiloh. Finish the degree. You are so close. Finish, graduate, have that one done and over with, then see what else is offered that you could "add on" and perhaps get a second degree. You could continue taking classes towards a second degree while you search for a job. Find a job you like, stop going to school. Don't find a job you like, get the second degree and refocus your job search. And yes, totally normal to completely break down at this point in your education. I was a wreck during the final year or so of law school. There is so much pressure on you to move on and start a whole new phase of your life. It's scary. What if you don't like it? What if it isn't what you want to do for the rest of your life? What if you can't find a job? What if you hate the job you find? What if the job you find doesn't pay you enough money? Trust me - lots of pressure, lots of things to worry and stress over - all while keeping up with classes, work and riding. That's a lot. Cut yourself some slack. You're going to be just fine.

~Shelly~

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Ah, you guys are awesome. Date was Saturday, he lives 2.5 hours away, so when he called late that night to let me know he got home safe, I said "You know, I would be interested in going on a read date with you (as opposed to just friends), if you were interested" Then there was a little pause, and he goes "That'd be cool" and goes on to talk about how awesome this summer will be, when we can hang out and ride together. Which was kinda already in the plans, as he mentioned wanting to come over and XC school with me.

He talks the talk, said he'd drive over his classic car one time, he knows we are selling the barn, and he's offered twice to have my horses at his place.

This was our third time really hanging out one on one, though I've know him since last year.

I've set up 2 of the 3 "dates," though not before he mentioned wanting to meet up. I feel like if I plan something, he's up for it, but I don't know if he's one to plan something on his own.

I REALLY don't know guys. Never had a serious boyfriend. The 3-7 days to process is interesting.

So still laying low, but I'm going to take up his offer of him helping me with my Spanish exam by having him proof read a composition. In a few days.

Lauren, hugs! I'm coming up on 24 myself . . . and yeah, the real world is close (I graduate this summer) and very scary!! Add that my parents want to put the barn up for sale this summer, I'm living alone, 3 states away from them, and I'm a little lost. I have a job, but not exactly one for the future. I really still just want to ride, and live on a farm.

All my friends from high school and college are married, engaged, and on to kids #2. Eek!

Quarter life crisis indeed!

I'm not even a good drinking companion!!!!!!

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KTS, how is the rest of his dating life? Does he have girls throwing themselves at him? Is he always surrounded by a couple girls? If so, then he may just not be so into putting the effort in. And I'm not saying that in a bad way about YOU, but why put in the effort if there is a string of girls to fall back on. Does that make sense? I'm thinking as I type here.

I've found that when a guy really wants to date YOU, he will find a way to do it. He will go out of his way to do things for YOU. And if he doesn't, then he might either just see you as a buddy or little sister type (which isn't a bad thing, I'm sure you've had guy friends you thought of as just friends, nothing more), or he might just not be at that point in his life yet.

And again, I am so not saying he's not into you. I'm just pointing out why it's not that great to be the one making the contacts. I was never good at the whole dating game. I did have to get the ball rolling a bit with my hubby, but once I made that initial "I do know you exist" contact, he took it from there. Heck he even walked my colicking horse for me on our second "date".

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Thanks Ladies. Really thanks!

This is something I've been mulling over for a few weeks now. It has all just been building up until I completely broke down especially after receiving my test back. Just topped it all off. And of course today I received a voicemail from a VP of a company in PA wanting to interview me for an internship then perhaps job in the acctg division. GROAN! Now what do I do?? Well Irv (I know him on first name basis) you see I'm thinking of switching my major now. So I have no idea what I'm going to do. Perhaps I should talk to him about it...he is a customer of ours and he has been egging me to give him my resume...which i did and then he wants me to come in. He REALLY wants me to work for the company. Which is cool, but still not sure. He's from NYC and comes with money...hahah. He also put in Lauren, I'd pay you really well. Oh boy!!!

Going to get this semester over with and see what the future will hold for me. I'll let you all know what I decide on Thursday....

Alyse- Boys are finky...they are simple...but proceed with caution. He sounds like a nice guy but some guys have a upfront persona and may have others on the side. Just tred cautiously for the time being. Too bad you didn't live closer. I've had my share with men...or boys (what I refer them all too...no matter the age) we'd have some fun!

My drinking skills are up to par. No wonder the boys like to go out with me. I may be small but I can drink.

Edited by 3DayEventer

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Lauren, I would call him back and see what he has to offer. It might be that it's SCHOOL that you hate, and once you start working you would be fine, especially if they pay well and you like the guy. Or, it might be something to stick out for a couple years and then use it to jump off into a job you like better.

But honestly, no one likes their job. Well, very few people anyway. It's just something you have to do to make ends meet. Or you could come take a ride on my mare, get dumped, and end up on disability because you feel like crap about 75% of the time and can no longer do what you used to for work.

Anyway, something's not right with Mir. He was about to jump out of his skin tonight. He was just all worked up about nothing, attention in 47 different places at once, ignoring me to the best of his ability. I'm wondering if he's getting too much soy. I switched him to a pelleted feed a couple weeks ago for the fat content, which works out timing-wise with when he started to lose it. This feed is mostly beet pulp, but it does have some soy meal in it, and the more we learn about soy, the more we realize it's really not good for you.

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See, that's why I'm not a good drinking companion!!! I can hold my liquor like none other.

It's NO FUN being the sober one in a bunch of drunks. I've noticed that they seem to repeat everything twice, and I'm the only one who ever notices. And then the conversations get inane and I get bored and angry, lol. And then I get a headache.

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At work and havent had a chance to read... but Alyse, Im the SAME way & I find that stupid, drunk people annoy the SNOT out of me. Cant stand to be around people who get all retarded while drinking.

7 mins before leaving timeeeeeee!!!

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Lauren ? Definitely talk to Irv and tell him that you are not convinced that accounting is where you want to go with your life. Tell him you are switching majors and see what he has to say. You never know ? perhaps he has something else in his company that might be just what you are looking for. Unless you talk to him . . . !!!!

Shiloh ? Hope you get Mir?s diet worked out.

Alyse ? Okay, definite party at my house then with you, Shantel and Lauren!! Sorry, Beckham, you are just going to have to work on those drinking skills!! 033102bebe_1_prv.gif First off, we own a liquor store, so we are well supplied. Secondly, we hardly ever drink, usually only when we have company, but when we do, the entire family can really drink. There are no light weights in this household.

~Shelly~

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