EliseandDash

What To Do With My Other Horse Right Now

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Hi everyone. Thank you in advance for reading this long post. This post is about my mare, who I have not really talked about on the hoof forum, but who is in need of some serious changes!!

I guess I have a dilemma as of right now, which to do first. My mare needs her shoes pulled and some major major rehab. My farrier, who I really like, has tried very hard to help her. In my non-education, I have let him do what he (and my vet) have thought was best, but it has made things worse, in my opinion.

I have a phone call into Dr. Tom Teskey here in Northern Arizona. He is a very well respected barefoot expert and a DVM. I?m not sure when he?s going to be able to see Dash and I don?t want to wait much longer to take her shoes off. I want to finally get some xrays and see what is really going on inside. I will need to take her shoes off to do these xrays. I will need to get boots because when these shoes come off she will need them right away. She is very flat and sore footed. I should add that she has been ?lame? for a month. I kept hoping these shoes would help, but they are not.

So, my question is: should I go ahead and get the xrays ASAP and have the boots ready for her? Should I wait to hear from Dr. Teskey and see what he thinks? Possibly not doing anything until after he sees her? Should her shoes come off right away to hopefully get her feeling better?

She was not this bad when I got her 4 years ago, she was in shoes but going fine. I think between my vet, my farrier and myself just letting them tell me what I should do, we are in this situation.

On a side note: I am learning, taking clinics and have joined the Pacific Hoof Care Practitioners and will be going through their barefoot program. My attitude is ?I am mad and I?m not going to take it anymore?!

I have photos that I will post at a later date, you guys will be a bit horrified I think.

I feel empowered by all this, like a huge weight is being lifted off me because I have made a decision to do this!! I have felt it in my gut that my horses were being harmed by shoes.

I am also going to video tape all of Dash?s progress, hopefully talk to the doctors on camera and do a documentary on our journey. Would that be something people would want to see?

I?m so glad you guys are here for support. My little gelding Sonny is progressing really well since we did this with him, but I know Dash is going to be much more difficult.

Edited by Elise & Dash

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My attitude is ?I am mad and I?m not going to take it anymore?!

This was me too...I was PAYING to a farrier to show up whenever they felt like it, lame my horse and do a terrible job!

It IS empowering!... and once you learn, You just can never ever ever go back.

Lets see pictures before we give any opinions.

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Thanks Trinity! Here are just a few pics, I don't have a lot unfortunately. I would love to hear everyones opinions, that's why I'm here. I do really like my farrier and like I said before, he really tried to do as best as he could, so please, no farrier bashing. I'll feel worse than I already do about this whole thing. I'm a little dramatic at times, sorry.

Ok, onto the photos.

Dash

dash.jpg

Front right no shoe

Dashrightfrontbarefoot.jpg

Right front

Dashrightfrontbarefoot2.jpg

Front right with shoe. He basically built a hoof wall to get her foot off the ground because it's so flat. He then put the shoe on and then put more epoxy around the foot. I know, crazy!!

dashfrontrightnewshoe.jpg

dashfrontrightnewshoe3.jpg

dashfrontrightnewshoe4.jpg

Thanks for looking and helping. :)

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Do not remove those shoes unless you have boots WITH very adequate padding right there and ready to go. That is a flat flat foot. I think these feet are PRIME candidates for casting with pads and perhaps preferable in this instance.

If you have to pull the shoes for the X ray, I would have the trimmer ready to set her up right then. This is a pretty sevier case.

Poor gal! No wonder she is lame. She hasnt got a good foot to stand on. I feel badly for well intentioned farriers who arent armed with the knowledge of what a time properly trimmed barefoot can do.

Hopefully you can rehab this mare and keep him in the loop and show him what it can do. His life will be forever changed with the knowledge if he chooses to accept it. Shoes are fine, on a healthy foot. But you still need to know how to GET a healthy foot and what truely healthy looks like. I believe basic barefoot as we know it today should be taught in farrier schools now. Its time for it to be common knowledge. Ill be glad when we stop seeing this kind of foot as common and it becomes a rarety.

Edited by Trinity

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Thanks again Trinity!! Please explain to me what exactly casting is? You're not the first person to suggest it.

I am looking at getting the Soft ride boots. Believe me, I won't be taking her shoes off until I get those. Her other feet aren't nearly as bad, that particular foot just isn't growing like the rest.

I just feel terrible about all this. She was fine until we started messing with everything. Back to basics is what I feel she needs.

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You are supposed to be mad,but anger can be a great motivator. Wait till you really get this stuff down if you think you feel empowered now. No one will ever care about your horses feet as much as you do. I'm on my boys feet like a hobo on a ham sandwich. Tesky is highly regarded in the hoof care world not just in your parts. I have a bunch of his links on my site. His writings were some of the first I came upon and he was influential in me following this path.Go see him if you can. I commend you for taking action.....change is never easy. At the risk of sounding like a broken record I am on board with Trinity...........again.

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Boy am I confused. I see a pad in one of the pics, so is that what your horse has on right now is a pad? Its seems to me that if the horse has a pad for protection, even with flat feet she shouldnt be sore. And why build up the foot if there is a pad? And also, its a flat leather pad, I have learned from my vet and internet, frog support is so very important in a pad. It does look like your farrier is trying to help the horse, may or may not be going about it the right way. Ok, now Im a broken record as I have posted this sort of thing before but If you get x-rays, will your farrier follow along with the vets recommendation? Most usually will if its coming from a vet and not just a horse owner, we know nothing you know!! So, before you take the flying leap and pull the shoes for the x-rays and then try to put the horse in boots, talk with your farrier and see if you can get an appointment as soon as you leave the vets office. Either boots or shoes whatever the vet recommends.

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You are supposed to be mad,but anger can be a great motivator. Wait till you really get this stuff down if you think you feel empowered now. No one will ever care about your horses feet as much as you do. I'm on my boys feet like a hobo on a ham sandwich. Tesky is highly regarded in the hoof care world not just in your parts. I have a bunch of his links on my site. His writings were some of the first I came upon and he was influential in me following this path.Go see him if you can. I commend you for taking action.....change is never easy. At the risk of sounding like a broken record I am on board with Trinity...........again.

I love your ham sandwich quote. That's how I am these days, checking the ponies all the time, always online reading and have lots of books. I have a call into Dr. Teskey, I haven't heard back yet. I am not sure I can wait until I hear from him, so this is what I think I'm going to do. I made an appt. to see the vet next Tuesday. He wants the shoes off for the xray, and he won't take them off himself. I have a call into our local trimmer to see if he can come before Tuesday, take her front shoes off, give her a little trim and I will have Soft Ride boots for her immediately. Then we go from there. Casting is definately an option, I wonder if I should have some of that on hand too. How does that sound? This one is going to be so much more stressful than my other guy.

Zinge: Yes, her right foot does have a pad on it. It's had a pad for a while and she's been pretty sore. This is why I am finally doing an xray, to see if she has navicular or something else. I sure hope not!! I am not really interested in putting shoes back on her, unless my vet is very convincing.

We did put a ground control plastic shoe on her briefly, and she was almost DEAD lame on that foot. I wasn't expecting that at all.

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I would wonder if her bony column is really low in the hoof and putting pressure on the frog region near the back of the foot? With all that on her foot and her problems in the past with the GC shoe, it makes me wonder if her frogs are taking all the abuse of the formation of the foot.

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I would wonder if her bony column is really low in the hoof and putting pressure on the frog region near the back of the foot? With all that on her foot and her problems in the past with the GC shoe, it makes me wonder if her frogs are taking all the abuse of the formation of the foot.

Yes, that is a huge possibility. When we took off the old shoe with frog support, there was obvious pressure in one part of her frog.

I have my BF trimmer coming out Sunday and I have Soft Ride boots on order, and they will be here by then. I am also talking to my vet today about xrays next week.

Also, I am in contact with Dr. Teskey and he will see her in about 5 weeks, that I am very excited about!! He is holding a clinic up here in Flagstaff in June and I'm already signed up.

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Im with Felda on this as far as the bones and something isnt quite lining up right. It really looks to me like this horse could use a little more heel and less toe which can be accomplished with shoes and wedge pads....BUT, this can also be accomplished with casting so she can stay barefoot. Of course the boots will be of help to her but if you need to do some angle changes, you can do that with casts. Check out the casting websites, I think equicast is the one that shows how you can build up the heels with more casting material and also I believe you can even put a wedge pad in there. The casts wont last long, about 3 weeks on turn out (in my experience). But that might be enough in this spring season to get a little more growth and then start shaping things up. And you can certainly put the casts on yourself, although I would enlist a friend to lend a hand. You have to be quick not to soak the material too long and keep the horse standing still. So by the time you get to attend the clinic, the casting will probably be off. Of course, get the x-rays to find out exactly what she needs, we can all only guess, the x-rays are going to give you all the answers and you can start on the road to recovery. I do hope you share the results with us.

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You are so lucky to be out there where he can actually see your horse. Good Luck.

I agree!!!

I'll be taking lots of pics Sunday, I'll be sure to post some. I'm really nervous about this because I know it's going to be difficult and a long process, but it will be worth it. Xrays Tuesday, think "no navicular" thoughts. :)

Thanks everyone!!

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okie dokie. IMO and from what I am seein, castin is a great idea. But castin might make you have to buy a boot one size bigger then the real hoof size. Then again it all depends on how you cast the hoof and how much wrap you use. But by lookin at those pics I would say you might need a good deal of wrap to build up those heels a tad. What I would suggest instead of castin at this moment would be Sole Gaurd and boots and pads. And then when you get further a long in rehab then cast. Boy you need a complete overhaul on the heels and heel platform. I would love to see the x-rays too.

Don't be hard on your farrier. Though the road to **** is paved with good intentions, at least he is givin his very best to try to fix your mare. I currently have a client that has a geldin who's hooves would chapped my butt to the point I almost screamed out "DANG IT GROW RIGHT AND FIX DANG IT!!". And I just was baffled why the horse was not filling in old abscesses with new growth till I asked my client to have things checked out by the vet next time she had x-rays done. Turns out there was a good bit of bone infection that was killin the new growth before it formed. So now that is taken care of there has been improvements. Well I am not entirely sure where I am gettin with this. I reckon I am just tryin to say that I know what it is like to put forth all your effort to fix a hoof problem and make all the pain go away but be held back from some unseen cause.

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Reverse frog pads and boots also might be an option. this horse definately needs some heels. I haven used soleguard so I dont know how much "squish" it gives.

and remember...even if there are navicular changes, many many navicular horses have been brought back from the brink by a good barefoot trim and promoting proper hoof function. It doesnt have to be a death sentance any longer.

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Reverse frog pads and boots also might be an option. this horse definately needs some heels. I haven used soleguard so I dont know how much "squish" it gives.

and remember...even if there are navicular changes, many many navicular horses have been brought back from the brink by a good barefoot trim and promoting proper hoof function. It doesnt have to be a death sentance any longer.

Yes, I have read a lot about navicular being helped by being barefoot and having the right trim. I had a horse as a kid with navicular. We sold him to a roper friend and he nerved him. I don't know what happened after that. I will say that since she has had this new shoe, she's has been less gimpy. I hold out hope that it was the extra pressure on her frog and it is slowly feeling better. That does not change my mind though about pulling her shoes. I am doing this on Sunday, well I'm not, but my trimmer is. :thud:

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I won't bash your farrier, but this has definitely gotten past his expertise. I see a direct cause of pain from the previous shoeing and worsened pathology.

In the side shot, Dash is thinking about the pain in his RF foot and not weighting it. The LH is also engaged in not weighting the RF. The RH has a straight hock that doesn't need xrays to worry me and a clubby foot beneath it. A bigger picture that I'm sure you won't have to point out for Dr. Tesky to be aware of.

RF Heel shot: The whole back of the frog has been crushed right across it and splatted into both bars. The bar on the right has a hollow of splatted pressure on it and the heels have also been crushed forward, fractured and dislocated. This has been detrimental to his comfort and the flare forward problem that he has.

Look forward to this clinic. I will as well. I wish 5 weeks had arrived. All will be well. Listen carefully and adhere to his instructions, especially with after care and continued trims. Life is about to get better, Dash.....give him a kiss for me. [bat Eyelashes]

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Thanks Missyclare, I did give Dash a kiss for you! :)

Here is a video I did over the weekend into yesterday. It's about 7 1/2 minutes long, I think you guys will find it interesting. It's sad, she's sore!! She has a bad case of thrush. Xrays today, I'll keep you posted.

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We had Xrays done last week. I guess we can take the good with the bad? My vet wasn't too worried about navicular and said Dash didn't have any roatation, all looks pretty good in that department. As suspected, she has a super thin sole on her front right and basically anything she steps on hits the coffin bone, so my vet said. And she is unbalanced on that right foot. He is barefoot friendly, but I kind of get the impression he things she will need shoes. I just don't want to go back there!!

It's been a week and she's been wearing Soft Ride boots, which I am going to replace after I see Dr. Teskey tomorrow. She's moving around better, seems happier, but those boots are like moon boots, clunky!

Onto the Xrays, thanks guys!!

Right Front

Dashxrayrightfront.jpg

dashxrayrightfrontfrombehind.jpg

Left Front

Dashxrayleftfront.jpg

Dashxrayleftfrontfrombehind.jpg

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