Trinity

Founder Case Updated 9-3 Headed Home!

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I have a new project. Yesterday I was called out to trim a foundered horse so you never know what youll be walking into. I was told it was an old case but the feet were bad. The man calling didnt own her but owned the field and the cows the horse was turned out with and was worried about the horse. She was basically abandoned by an elderly cattle farmer who did not want to spend money on her.

Got there and the poor mare could not walk. She is very overweight, grass foundered with chronic laminitus... STILL out on lush grass and eating corm and sweet feed!!!! EEEEEKKK!

She was seriously overgrown and feet full of ick which actually might be a blessing because im hoping it has protected the tip of P3 over time as she is completely rotated...We are lucky she hasnt come through the sole....yet. I trimmed what I could and her fronts look like they will come along pretty quick but her backs are a nightmare...I could onyl do so much as she was so sore and he had no bute or anything. We made some progress but she really needed to be soaked and cleaned and trimmed better on pain meds and boots. I told the guy what a job was ahead of them and the probablilty of her completely sinking through her soles and then necessitating euthanasia if she wasnt treated and her diet ogtten under control. He was pretty upset and rightfully so and it wasnt even his horse techincally.

Her thrush is SO bad in every foot but particularly her left rear which also has a chronic abcess and proudflesh...She has a HUGE hole once we got it uncovered and cleaned out. It stinks so badly like a rotten tooth and I can only hope we dont have a bone infection going on. She is at my place for now as the fellow got the guy who actually owned her to agree to donate her to the 4H my friend is a leader of who will use her for their kids if she can be rehabbed. She is supposed to be well trained and also trained to drive or somesuch..she has great manners and seems to be what they say so far as we can see so far. She is really cute too.

We are contacitng a lameness vet in Statesville to see if they will agree to donate the treatment to the 4H for her on that one foot for a tax writeoff. We would like to have X rays done and whatever the vet thinks is necessary for the proudflesh and if the hole needs to be opened more or anything. But mostly to make sure ther eis no bone infection and if ther eis, what we need to do.

Meanwhile, we have cleaned, trimmed what she could stand to allow between yesterday and today, soaked, buted and booted her and will be putting a diaper with drawing salve and epson salt on her to try to draw more out of the abcess hole in a little while. 3 feet are looking 100% better but the one back foot is nasty.

I only have a couple not so great pictures for right now but I thought you all might be interested to see where we are starting out. These were fresh off the trailer with only what work I could do yesterday on her and BELIEVE ME...they are already 80% better than where we started. I have done more and cleaned alot more since...

soaking

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YEs..thats pus in the succulous *barf*

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More pictures of the afters maybe later or tomorrow...Kinda busy but I wanted to start a post.

Edited by Trinity

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Boy oh boy! Kudo's to you Trinity. You've got your work cut out for you. I can understand why you'd want the vet in for that abscess. It looks like it has been festering for a long, long time. I noticed the mound of skin circling above it. ..I'm thinking opening, draining and abrading is needed. Yup, you have your work cut out for you! I'm kind of glad that the hoof still looks nasty and not as trimmed as much. There are other priorities right now with getting that abscess healed. Look at the nice angle of the coronary band despite the mess below it. Good go, Trinity! [bat Eyelashes]

See the last pic of the side shot...how the hoof wall mounds and bulges down the toe wall? I suspect Keratoma. You'll see a broken white line at the toe on the solar side, or even just a dark dot...disorganized sole, like looking at the end of a ruler that's been shoved up there. At the upper end is a canker that keeps growing this messed wedge downward. I have cured a milder one by maintaining the bevel and waiting for growth, but the vet may say differently.

This one is at the quarter, not the toe and how it was treated:

http://www.mascalcia.net/articoli/a2004_72.htm

Like a toe re-section. They can do a full one from ground to band or only a partial one. You may be able to get away with a partial one as its seems to mostly affect the bottom 1/2 of the hoof. Definitely speak to the vet about it though. I can only see a hint of it in this side shot.

Keep us posted. Will be interesting to follow you. Yup, a lot of work! Making me tired just thinking about it! Best wishes!

Edited by missyclare

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They actually do look much much better now that they have been soaked and cleaned. I had to clean her frogs up and start treating the thrush in the other three feet hoping to get them as good as I can before the vet does whatever he has to do to the other foot.

I was also able to clean and open a bit more of the abcess foot as after the soaking I found the ends of the laidover bars which uncovered the giant hole in the heel triangle to the coronary that I can shoot completely through with the soak water with a syringe. I also took a bit more toe away to help her breakover but not much...trying to be conservative but improve each time I pick up her foot. She can only hold it for me for a short time..She isnt happy about it on this one bad foot.

Its just so, so bad......

BUT...

that mare walked off probably 85% comfortable tonight in her hoof boots, kneeling pads and her diaper drawing boot on the bad foot. I put dampened Epsom salt in the bottom and iccthamol on the upper and ducktaped it all on well. I consider that a success from non mobile this AM. I also gave her a gram and a half of bute before I worked on her for a couple hours as we had to work and rest with her standing on kneeling pads.

I looked at the artical and will keep it in mind...Her feet are just so damaged and neglected I wouldnt be surprised at anything. The vet we are trying to get her to is a very good lameness vet so I have my fingers crossed. I agree that it need abraiding and a really good cleaning and opening by a vet. Its so deep I will only do so much. Im just doing what I feel comfortable with to just start the cleaning out process as it was very infected but Its definately vet territory IMO.

Everyone please keep her in your thoughts and pray that the vet will be happy to help this Hony for a tax writeoff for the 4H kids. She really is a doll and needs a chance. If we dod not take her and give her this chance, she would be rotting her feet off with completely inadaquate care and I am sur ewould not have lived longer than another year or two at most. This mare is only 10 years old.

I will post more picts tomorrow of her cleaner feet.....We ran out of light....they still are not trimmed as beautifly as Id like as she has a hard time standing for me but Better is better whether or not its pretty.

Edited by Trinity

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Wow. That is horrible!! She really stood in the 4 buckets for you? it probably felt really good to her. shes a lucky horse to have found you and the 4h group. Good luck on getting her better. I hope it goes well for the pretty girl.

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She stood like a ROCK....I had all 4 feet in as hot of water as would come out of the faucet (3 were borax soaks and the bad foot was in epson salt that we changed three times as we cleaned and the stuff came out) and she barely moved a muscle.

My hope is to follow her over the next year into her rehab so long as we can get this terrible abcess healed up.

I wish I had complete before pictures...They were as bad as it gets.

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Few more pictures I forgot..

These are her fronts...Nowhere near as bad as the backs which is kinda backwards in my little world over here....One trim had them looking halfway decent, but still terrible thrush of course underneath. I probably cut 3 inches of wall off these fronts ...Maybe 5 inches off the backs?

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Heres a hind angle of the bad foot...

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Thanks for taking time to share this story with us - and including pictures! So glad that there are hearts like yours in this world! [Angel]

Can't wait to see the 'good' part of her journey......

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I'd be getting some Banixx for that wound on the rear fetlock. I pray she's on Remission already for that cresty neck.

You're a better woman than I. Were it me, I would have recommended euthanasia, since (for me) I can't see putting the mare through all the pain that will be necessary over a long period of time to get her semi-sound and useful again. But that's just me.

-sigh- [Me Cry]

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Wow, poor thing. What a dear, standing in those buckets for you. At least she looks in decent health otherwise, other than her weight problem. Very interested to see how it goes!

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Gut feel here, but personally if the vet agrees to take it on as a write-off case, I'd want that lump biopsied. I think there's more going on there than proudflesh/abscess. Especially look at that 2nd to last picture (front view of the front feet, but you can catch the rears in between): look at how "mounded" the lateral aspect of the pastern is.

Edited by cvm2002

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We are praying the vet will agree to it. Im sure he will do everything he can if he does take her on. I do understand he is one of the best lameness vets in our area. Ther is alot I can do but htat one foot should be vet territory. If the vet doesnt agree, we will have some hard questions to face but at least she has a shot. Surprisingly, she seems quite sound after cleaning that out on the BAD foot than the rear left which is the worst foundered it appears.

This mare has a clear will to live and a sparkle in her eye and is only a 10 year old. At her midnight check, she came trotting to me when she saw the flashlight. She hadnt had bute in 7 hours by that time so I feel confident, if the rear foot can be helped, she will come out of this rather quickly. Alot of her soreness seems to be the terrible thrush.

She has had NOTHING done to her. Complete neglect here. She was owned by a cattle farmer..83yo...very old school and clueless about horses so what does that tell you? We were told he bought the horse a few years back for his girlfreind who is 40 and they roade her a couple times and thats it so at least shes been in a closed herd with no other horses.

If we left her where she was, she would have met an ugly ending after more years of suffering if her foot didnt fall off before then vs us at least trying to help her and make her useable in time if its fesable. So, she has no shots, no remission, no anything yet. We literally picked her up yesterday afternoon before the old farmer could change his mind about the donation. At least now we have control over the end for her if that becomes necessary and we cant help her.

For now, she is happy to be near her own kind again instead of just cows and donkeys and is happily cantering! around her dry lot when so motivated by the other horses which shocked me.

More later...

Edited by Trinity

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Lacey had a big ugly abscess like that on the outside of her hock after she broke it. We hosed it until it opened and then we scrubbed well and flushed with penicillin. It healed really fast!

Thumbnails, click to make bigger.

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We all (vet incl) though it was a piece of bone sticking out but x rays showed nothing of the sort.

Edited by Nixalba

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poor Lacey! :sick:

if the vet wont consent to doing a biopsy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

im wondering if there isnt some proud flesh going on too :confused0024:

I think (after consulting my vet) I would like to get her started on some TUCOPRIM, make sure she was UTD (esp. on tetanus), and use the Trypzyme on the wound.

http://www.amazon.com/Trypzyme-V-Aerosol-S...z/dp/B000M8O1KU

Edited by jumpin_horses

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Lemme ask you guys something....

Till we find out about the vet, what would you be treating a giant abcess hole with in the meantime? Think cheap and easily accessable for now that we can gt at TSC or have on hand already.

Im not as concerned about the top of her foot now actually because if those are sarcoid tumors (which is what I believe CVM was referring to. I have seen them much worse however) there wont be much I can do about them but manage them unless and untill they can be removed. If its proudflesh, which the bleeding one actually appears to be somewhat, It can be dealt with later and simply managed for now. Im a little afraid to treat it as proudflesh if its a tumor in fear of making it angry. If it was simply and obviously proudflesh, I could definately get rid of it but the unknown factor and the lumpiness makes me very cautious and suspicious. This may be the sleeping giant even above the abcess and founder.

I CAN help the abcess however so Im going to do my best.

Yesterday, I soaked in epsom and cleaned well and then we did use diluted nolvason (sp?) and shot it through the holes getting out the ickies as much as we could to try to further kill any nasties. She will have 24 hours with the duct tape diaper drawing boot when we change her tonight. The bottom was a wet down epsom poltice and the upper I put icthamol on. Im going to do it differntly today probably as I hope that it will be much cleaner and the infection lessened a great deal.

Im trying to think of the best thing to pack the hole with now that isnt expensive or hard to get or have to be ordered. This is all out of my and my freinds pocket for the moment and so long as she is comfortable, we need to conserve our personal money untill we find out about the vet. I dont care to spend on the horse but I dont want to throw my money away on a horse that isnt mine or that cant be helped so long as she is comfortable as I said. Im humane of course, but very practical also as my budget isnt endless at all.

Edited by Trinity

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As much as id love to do that, We are not going to spend much personal money until we see about the donation of services. I think we may try a few other vets also but we are trying to hold out for the good one here near me.

I mean it isnt my horse and I am not going to drop a probable 400 to 600 on her I could use on my own horses. Im donating my time and dry lot and hay etc to the club and they have to do their part to get this horse help. The 4H will do a fundraiser if need be or something if we cant get services donated so she can be seen as soon as possible or billed with half payment or some such, but until then we are on our own and getting phone advice. We are trying hard to get done what needs to be done withint eh constraints of what we have available. And she feels much better as it is...She went from immobile to cantering voluntarily in a few hours.....that is amazing by itself. I think we are on the right track and I couldnt call this an emergency call since she has lived with it for years apparently.

The way I see it, she is still better off here, even without a vet, recieving the best we can give her for now than rotting in that cow pen with infected feet completely immobile where we found her. We let the owner of the field and horse know all the options and I can guarentee she would have gotten NO vet help ever, minimal to no people help even if they knew what to do for her and would NOT have been put down to end her suffering unless her foot fell off or she couldnt get up. The owner wanted to SELL her for 800 bucks O>O if that tells you anything.

I figure she's still better here no matter what. Its the only reason we took her. Id rather put her down humanely if we can do nothing else for her yanno? It isnt right to leave her suffer and I was involved fro the minute I set foot on the farm.

I know its scary to advise when things are very bad, but really...anything is better than nothing at this point...I have my ideas but I dont know it all for sure and I might be overlooking something obvious in my attempt to analize everything.

Edited by Trinity

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When I look at that hind, I just get "pull". Pull out the infection. I would probably spend as much time micro cleaning the hoof, as I would soaking in epsom salts. (The cleaning job will probably get easier as you go) I have a cleaning kit with a toothbrush, bottle brush, Q-Tips, small wire toothbrush a needless syringe..a 410 with a curved tip. I don't know what Novalsan is, but I imagine its the right stuff. When you flush out the holes...keep going...flush them out for a full 10 minutes with her foot over a pail or something. Rinse the hoof if you feel you should. Then I'd put ichthamol upper and lower and do it all up. Basically, using the epsom salts soak as the first move everytime and altenating with being bare/dry and/or soothed. Even changing up and bandaging over honey. What about Forschner's? Don't forget vinegar and I'll bet those cracks will hold Goo quite nicely.

It just says pull to me. Dry out by pulling, nothing that is going to burn/dry and seal things up. Keep it soft, keep it moistened, keep pulling. If you have a soaking boot, I'd have her spend some time sloshing around in that with epsom salt and water. Even soaking in vinegar and water or borax and water. I would lean on the epsom salts moreso at first, though. Just keep changing it up. Even the best treatment can go stale fast.

How old is this mare? It's good to hear that she is better, but I think I would be bandaging all four legs for support/warmth and promotion of circulation, but that's just me. I do that if any one leg is wrong...she's got more than that.

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sorry guys its going to be tomorrow for more pictures..we are running our days out of light with all we have going on right now.

I agree MC...I keep thinking wet the dry and dry the wet just like any other wound. I also get a strong sense of "pull it all out" which is why I keep thinking epsom and icthamol over and over right now. I do have stuff to make goo...Ill whip some up.

This mare is only a 10yo...Amazingly she isnt stocked up and is moveing well...I do want tog et her on a joint supplement tho as she already has popping joints. It is thrilling to see her moving almost normally despite all this...

Ill update more tomorrow. Keep her in your good thoughts and prayers.

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Sorry guys, I will update as soon as I have time to work on pictues...Been crazy busy and supposed to leave town for a few days again so I have to make preperations.

Horse is doing really well. I already see the wall trying to tighten up at the top of the back left that was completely let go. She doesnt seem to have lost any weight yet so I may need to further regulate her hay and diet. I was given a bottle half full of Banixx I will try on her. Her sores seems smaller and less angry and healing...She is getting around very well so we remain very positive at her chances.

No further word on the vet, so Im just proceeding as I deem fit and she tells me I havent trimmed anything in several days..just letting her wear her feet and move around. The thrush ius really the worst of her issues and needs daily treatment.

She has sucessfully out bossed my bossy TWH fattie mare who is on a diet with her so she is quite a sassy gal and feeling rather full of herself lol.

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Epsom salt poultice is #1 best drawing agent ever imo. I highly suggest you try it! Its cheap, and all you do is slap it on and wrap it up! If anyone can get her turned around, it will be you trinity!

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WOW! First, I think she gorgeous, and its a crying shame what has been done (or not done) to her. I really hope for the best for this mare. I realize you don't want to invest too much money into her, but I commend you for what you are doing, just your time and care alone is worth the world. Best wishes

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Trimmed her again today. I tried to take pictures in the dark and they came out horrible :( Ill go though and see if I can make any of them viewable. Im sorry pictures have been so hard..Its been a tough month and HOT as a blue blazes of all hello. 105 heat index today thus me working late evening and running out of light.

I was mostly just touching up her back feet and beveling a bit after her soaking today. I *think* she may have lost 10 lbs or maybe 20....Shes still a fattie but the pockets are not as hard and her neck is softening up yay!

I really got agressive with her blocky false soled abcess foot today as she stood a good deal better than she has previously. I really opened it up and trimmed a lot of false crumbling aole and several more layers of impacted bar, overgrown frog that is still hiding infection from me, and trimmed the side wall exit hole up by the coronary a good deal bigger so I have much better access to it for cleaning. Its really a guessing game somewhat with trimming this foot, but I think im winning now. I do think she will be a bit sore on this foot tomorrow BUT....I stand by that is was necessary to really get down to the nitty gritty to start healing and uncover as much infection as I could so it can be cleaned well. Ive been having problems with black goo popping out of hiding and rotten tooth smell popping up.

It isnt a pretty trim because, although she is standing better, it still only means about 60 seconds of air time at a time with her other foot on a kneeling pad. I am being satisfied with fast, not so pretty trimming in favor of more correct form for function.

Her toes on both back feet were miles and miles long even still after all I have done so far. It is dropping as she uses her foot more properly and the terrible jamming lets down and the wall tries to tighten up up at the top. I keep whittling it back to a more proper breakover tring to not be TOO agressive till her heels are really comfy when this thrush is really no longer as deep and sore as it has been. Its a fine line and Im sure I dont get it perfect but she still seems greatful every time I finish. There is no doubt this is the worst, deepest, most painful thrush I have ever seen....ever. Im so glad to see her improve and have more normal foot function and become less painful she I clean her feet each time. It is very satisfing.

I am constantly amazed at how fast her feet are changing and even the vast fissures of thrush in her succulous are not as tight as they used to be and are opening up and drying out...Im pulling out every trick I know.

I will confess....I am using Thrushbuster :ashamed0002: in them after soaks and also daily...I know, I know....BUT it IS drying it up and removing the soreness from her wet infected frogs. It does a good job when used daily till its completely open to the air which I hope will come soon. I just dont have time to fuss with goo. I barely have enough time to soak as it is. I think the other three feet are at the point where soaking may only be a weekly or bi monthly thing now finally and only the abcess foot may continue with soaking. It still has alot of changing and healing to do.

The bleedy lump is a real bugger. Im debating on how to best address it and when I decide I will attack it with a vengance to try to get it under control. It is getting bannix on it for now till I decide along with her abcess hole since Ihave half a bottle of it NCT gave to me.

I was considering trying a few rounds of Wonderdust on it with a pressure wrap and see if I can eat it back down close to level and then heal it up once its down to good tissue or even just flatter...I just cant tell if its proudflesh or not...It kinda really looks like it and then again, it kinda doesnt. It bleeds alot which could be either. I will say, I have gotten rid of some nasty lower leg proudflesh with wonderdust wraps several times and I do know how to use it properly just fyi.. Some people dont liek it but it works great for me.

Anyway, thats the update for now. Its amazing how sound she is considering where we started. I mean she gimps a bit here and there and is cautious of her worst feet, but it really is amazing when I think back to how immobile she was when I first saw her.

Keep her in your good thoughts! We will keep moving forward

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Hey if the Thrushbuster is working, have at it. Also try good sprays of Tinactin Powder Athlete's Foot Spray. Gets in there well!

On that wound, yay for Bannixx.... you also may wanna try Preparation H to shrink the proud flesh. Also, sometimes the old mix of Organic Honey and Garlic is good to promote healing and keep flies off!

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