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Eskielvr

Breeding For Color..

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I know my bay mare carries the red gene, as she's thrown chestnuts in the past. Makes waiting for next years foal exciting! I could get bay, chesnut, palomino, or buckskin!

But HEALTHY is the perfect color for me. :)

~stars

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What gets even more confusing is the chestnut/sorrel thing. Genetically they are the same thing. But different breeds have different meanings for them. Arabs use chestnut and not sorrel. AQHA uses both. Drafts, which look pali are called sorrels.

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Halflingers and most drafts are chestnut with flaxen. Yeah. Those pretty much are "slang" terms for lack of a better way to describe it.

But they really are all just shades of chestnut.

Like how you can have bay horses that are all the way from bright bay, to almost black, but they are genetically bay.

~stars

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All I can add to this discussion is if one parent is homozygous for grey, you'll get a grey foal no matter what color the other parent is. *grin*

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You CAN custom breed for color if you are so inclined but it does take knowing a bit about genetics. I have two stallions that I can guarantee color with. One is my foundation perlino QH....sires only buckskins with a couple of disclaimers.....if bred to a gray mare the foal will have a 50-100% chance of going gray...and if bred to a single dilute mare (buckskin, paly, smokey black) there's a 50% chance the foal will be perlino and 50% chance it will be buckskin... and if bred to mares with other dilutions (pearl, champagne, silver) the resulting combos could be interesting. The other isn't really a "color" guarantee except that the word "color" is used by Paint breeders to mean the white pattern....he's a liver chestnut homozygous tobiano so will always pass along a red gene and a tobiano gene....the red could be overridden by a black from a black based mare but the foal will be tobiano in any case.

Then there are the two boys that are hetero for everything, my walking rainbows. One is a foundation QH, a buckskin with one totally blue eye and one partial, likely to be a minimal splash white (no belly spot and short socks but big wide, flat topped blaze)....his sire is a paly and his dam is a black...he got red, agouti and cream from sire; black and non-active agouti from mom.....can sire all the way from cremello to HZ black. The other is a buckskin tobiano, also by a paly QH sire and out of a black tobiano Paint mare...hetero for black/red/bay form of agouti/cream and tobiano....can pass any combo of those.

Color genetics are really pretty simple. As far as two sorrel/chestnuts producing a bay....possible chance that one of those chestnuts is actually a wild bay...little to no leg black and these do get misregistered on occasion (especially if they have white leg markings) as the black mane/tail can sometimes be more rusty colored. OR keep in mind that this is how silver dilution was found in the QH's....a stallion registered as a chestnut and bred to a chestnut mare sired a bay foal....he was actually a bay silver which can look very much like a chestnut. Bay x bay producing chestnut...not unusual. Knowing both the sire and dam of a pair that you are breeding will often give hints of what they are genetically (like the two buckskins mentioned above) and/or knowing what a horse has sired or produced and from what color mate can tell you a lot as well. There are a few colors that are a bit sneaky but not that hard to figure....silver is one, pearl is another, wild bay and brown can show up unexpectedly as well.

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Eski,

This is an example of getting that buckskin guaranteed.. and will be my next choice for Twinkie if I decide to breed her agian....

http://www.pitcherranch.com/Stallion2.html

The sight is not updated, but he has ONLY produced buckskins out of ANY color dam. He is Perlino.

AD

Unfortunately some of the info on that site is not correct. Many QH's can and do carry the frame overo gene without showing it and are therefore able to sire/produce a lethal white foal... it has nothing to do with his double dilute color but with the frame overo gene. And it can hide. The other concern would be a potential issue as a HERDA carrier...he has three known carriers close up in his pedigree...and I don't see where he's been tested so would either ask for test results or make sure the mare is tested and is negative (carriers don't show symptoms).

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Well, Dominant White (not mutant white!!) is known to be a spontaneous gene mutation, not a true color inheritance.

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