subliminal

Alternatives To Equipride? Update Post 12 -- Advice For Weight Gain Needed

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To make a long story short, I just found out from the Equipride dealer (ex-dealer?) that at this point, we can no longer get Equipride in my region. I've had 2 of my horses on it since spring and love the product. My mare dealt with laminitis/abscesses/?? last November and even though all blood tests showed she doesn't have metabolic issues, in the back of my mind I'm still concerned about what she eats. She's typically a hard keeper in the winter and blows up in the summer. Since going on Equipride, she's been at a PERFECT weight. Not fat, not thin. Everyone who sees her over the past few months has commented on how wonderful her weight is. Her feet look great too.

Of course, now I need to find a new feed. I've fed traditional ration balancers to her in the past and she's done OK on them, but honestly, she's got hind gut issues and does so much better without soy. I really don't want her back on soy at this point. I have another gelding on Equipride and he's an easy keeper (in the summer, too easy of a keeper) so ideally I'd like to keep my 2 quarter horses on the same feed (my extremely picky hard keeping TB is another story but I've found a combination that works for him but his feeds are not an option for the other 2).

Any feed suggestions? They currently get the Equipride with a small amount of beet pulp so I'm willing to keep up with the beet pulp. I was looking at McCauley's M10 (http://www.mccauleyb....aspx?catID=m10) because I read that it contains no soy but... I did contact McCauley's so hopefully they'll get back to me. In the mean time, any suggestions? I'm really not looking forward to losing all the wonderful parts of Equipride. I can still get the 25lb tubs for the time being from the dealer until he runs out, but they're 42.00 and I was paying $46 for the 50lbs. I can't justify spending the same amount for half the product.

So frustrated here! I have access to lots of different feeds and my 2 local feed stores will order pretty much anything they can get from local dealers even if they don't typically carry it. So Triple Crown, Purina, Progressive, Pennfield, McCauley's, Legends, Nutrena, Buckeye, Tribute, etc.

Edited by subliminal

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Here's the numbers on each:

Guaranteed Analysis ? EquiPride

Crude Protein, Min. 14.00%

NPN Max (AS) 0.55%

Crude Fat, Min. 5.50%

Crude Fiber, Max. 5.50%

ADF Fiber, Max 8.50%

Calcium (Ca), Min. 1.00%

Calcium (Ca), Max. 1.50%

Phosphorus (P), Min. 1.25%

Salt (NaCl), Min. 7.50%

Salt (NaCl), Max. 9.00%

Magnesium (Mg), Min. 1.50%

Potassium (K), Min. 1.10%

Sulfur (S), Min. 0.25%

Fluorine, Max 0.8 ppm

Copper (Cu), Min. 500 ppm

Selenium (Se), Min. 5 ppm

Zinc (Zn), Min 1,000 ppm

Iron (Fe), Min. 350 ppm

Manganese (Mn), Min. 750 ppm

Iodine (I), Min. 8 ppm

Cobalt (Co), Min. 4 ppm

Biotin, Min 18 mg/lb

Omega 3 fatty acid, Min. 5,500 ppm

Vitamin A, Min 100,000 IU/lb

Vitamin D, Min 20,000 IU/lb

Vitamin E, Min 350 IU/lb

Guaranteed Analysis - McCauley's? M10 Balancer?

(Contains beet pulp, flaxseed and rice bran)

Crude Protein, minimum -- 10.0%

Crude Fat, minimum -- 5.0%

Crude Fiber, maximum -- 14.0%

Calcium, minimum -- 2.8%

Calcium, maximum -- 3.3%

Phosphorus, minimum -- 1.4%

Salt, minimum -- 1.0%

Salt, maximum -- 1.5%

Copper, minimum -- 180 ppm

Selenium, minimum -- 2.0 ppm

Zinc, minimum -- 500 ppm

Vitamin A, minimum -- 20,000 IU/lb

Vitamin D, minimum -- 4,000 IU/lb

Vitamin E, minimum -- 500 IU/lb

Vitamin K

Vitamin B1 (Thiamin)

Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin)

Vitamin B3 (Niacin)

Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine)

Choline

Folic Acid

d-Pantothenic Acid

Vitamin B12

Magnesium

Cobalt

Iodine

Iron

Manganese

The Protein and Fiber are a bit different, as are the vitamins. The Equipride has Omega 3 which might mean a difference for your mare.

Equipride is a "top dress" while the McCauley's is a pelleted balancer. Is that what you are going for?

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FYI - Nutrena's site says: "All Nutrena horse feeds contain soy in varying amounts."

I pulled a bit of older info from Dr. Juliet Getty's site http://gettyequinenutrition.biz/

She regularly contributes some great articles to Horsecity.com and I don't think she will mind me mentioning this:

Many feeds contain soybean hulls, which are the fibrous portion of the soybean, but do not contain actual soybean meal. These include:

Blue Seal Feeds

Platform feeds

Seminole Feeds

Triple Crown Feeds

Many companies, such as Nutrena, Purina, Poulin, and Pennfield do not list their ingredients on line, so if you have these feeds in your local feed store, you can examine the feed tag.

I'm not sure why you're wanting to avoid soy, since soy is a highly nutritious legume, and as such, it complements other protein sources to produce a high quality protein. Soybeans in these feeds are heat processed to destroy the trypsin inhibitor found in raw soybeans.

Dr. Getty

I'm going to email her since we just talked this week and see if she will contribute to this thread a little. She always stresses the importance of the Omega 3s and I think that my horses have always done better with that supplemented as well.

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Boy do I feel your pain :(

I have been feeding EquiPride four years to four horses and love what it has done for my horses.

I WAS driving 92 miles one way to pay $43/50lb bag and stocking up so I'd only have to drive twice a year.

I just can't do that anymore. I have a dealer that's "only" 38 miles away but they have to sell EquiPride for what the district manager dictates and that's over $60/50 lb bag :o

That is probably why your dealer isn't selling it anymore.

EquiPride is soy-free for starters. I need that for two of my metabolic horses and a third one that is oat/corn/SOY intolerant.

The dealer that's 38 miles away also sells McCauley's. She is ordering the M-10 for me to try.

If soy-free is your goal, good luck as these are the only two I am aware of. LinPro used to be but I have heard rumors that company has started using soy as the protein source because soy is so much cheaper.

Much as I tout the benefits of Triple Crown, it has NOT worked on any of my horses. I forgot just how big of a nut case my soy-intolerant horse can be :crazy: TC Senior failed both of my mid-20's horses.

I still have enough EquiPride until the McCauley's M-10 comes in. Three will eat that and I will hope for the best.

The fourth is 25, metabolic, with hind gut ulcers, lipomas in the GI tract and colics if you look at him wrong. He's gone from an air fern to a really hard keeper. I have him on equine rice bran and Tuttles Liquid 747 vitamin.

http://www.y-tex.com/pdfs/747.pdf

It only takes one ounce daily of the 747 and the results have been amazing in just one month. Yes it has molasses and corn oil - both things a metabolic horse should not have but, this particular horse is thriving on it and he hasn't colicked since he's been on it.

Using a liquid vitamin (stay away from Red Cell :sick: like Tuttles, and top dressing it over something that doesn't have any vitamins/minerals might be something to consider.

You could give your easy keepers the liquid vitamins mixed into straight timothy pellets. I think my horse would drink it right out of the gallon jug if I asked him to.

Because of all the health issues with this 25 yr old, I did get my vet's ok to try it before I dumped it in his feed pan, as this is some high dose stuff :angel3:

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gaitinalong, thank you so much for your thoughts! Isn't if frustrating how hard it is to get Equipride?

I did get an email from a tack shop near my mom (45mi away) that they do carry Equipride though they only have 1 50lbs bag in stock, but plan to continue carrying it. That said, as far as I know, they use the same regional supplier so whether or not they'll be able to continue carrying it, I don't know. But perhaps there is another dealer in the region no one is aware of (I stopped short of calling the distribution center (for the east coast?) but I might contact them again to see if there are other dealers). If the bag is still available, I'm going to try and get my mom to pick it up for me (she's 5 minutes from the tack store). Otherwise, I'm going to look into McCauley's M10. That said, the liquid vitamin idea is possible.

I did speak to someone from Progressive who suggested their Premium Lo-Carb Formula Pellet. It has soy bean hulls but many explain that the hulls don't contain the inside portion of the soybean where the allergens are found and many horses w/ soy issues are fine with them. I don't know. I hate to have to go back to feeding pounds of feed again. Equipride has spoiled me! It may be initially very pricey, but the cost per day is so low when I consider how little I feed and how long the bag lasts for 2 horses. Months!

Well, hopefully I can snag this bag of Equipride and deal with this dilemma in the future or find some other dealer within a few hours drive and buy a years worth at a time.

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Hello there,

I'm sorry to hear about your difficulty in obtaining EquiPride and EquiLix, but I do have some good news. I work for the new distributor for SweetPro for the North East United States and I would be more than happy to ship you product directly. I would also appreciate some info on the feed store that "can't get it" if you wouldn't mind.

We have all of the available horse products in stock. Please contact me via email for more information.

Thanks!

Amanda

You can email me through my profile page :)

Edited by InkedPony

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Greetings -- I think I can offer some input on the use of soy. Yes, what you have below is still true and soybean meal is included in many feeds as a protein source. And it is a good one -- soy is actually the most complete protein found in plants. But, large amounts can be problematic for some horses. The reason is unclear -- it could be an allergic response. Or it could be from feeding too much leading to the creating of excess glucose from amino acids that are not being used. Or it could be from the high phytoestrogen (plant estrogens) level in soy. Phytoestrogens can change behavior in some horses (male of female). There is no scientific evidence of this that I can point to, but anecdotal evidence abounds.

Do no confuse soybean meal with soybean hulls or soybean oil -- these do not contain the phytoestrogens I described.

So bottom line... if your horse responds adversely to soybean meal, avoid it.

Dr. Juliet Getty

www.gettyequinenutrition.com

FYI - Nutrena's site says: "All Nutrena horse feeds contain soy in varying amounts."

I pulled a bit of older info from Dr. Juliet Getty's site http://gettyequinenutrition.biz/

She regularly contributes some great articles to Horsecity.com and I don't think she will mind me mentioning this:

I'm going to email her since we just talked this week and see if she will contribute to this thread a little. She always stresses the importance of the Omega 3s and I think that my horses have always done better with that supplemented as well.

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"Subliminal" what did you end up doing?

My McCauley's M-10 Balancer came in. Somehow, in my mathmatically-challenged brain, the fact these pellets are HALF INCH round totally escaped me. It says that on website but I just did the Bobbing Dog Head and none of that sank in.

I mix everything with water anyway, so my horse doesn't have a problem eating them and does like them.

That all being said:

The feed dealer that sells McCauley's is now on the list to sell EquiPride ---- at $60/bag plus Tennessee's 9.75% sales tax. I am going to eat crow and keep feeding it to two of the four horses. The Higher Powers at EquiPride have sliced their throats anyway.

My 25 yo is doing so well on a liquid vit/min supplement and rice bran that I'm going to put the 26-1/2 yo on the same diet. They are both hard keepers and, knock-quietly-on-wood, the 25 yo came thru this week's rapid and severe weather pattern without a hitch. That tells me less is more for him. I'm hoping the diet works as well for the other Elder.

Instead of 40 ounces daily of EquiPride, I will only be using 20, the store is 38 miles away so I won't have to buy nearly as much product in advance.

If it happens you can't get the EquiPride, the McCauley's seems to be settling with my horse but it's way too soon to see any affects on coat and hoof health; something I won't see because I'll put him back on EquiPride when this bag is gone.

You just have to remember the pellets are big enough to knock somebody unconscious if they weren't soft - lol lol

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gaitinalong:

I was able to get a bag of Equipride from the tack store near my mom's so I'm good for at least another couple of months. They plan to keep carrying it so if I can't get it closer to me (which hopefully with the new distributor who was planning to contact the local feed stores I should be good), I'll still be able to get it somewhere. I'm going to have to start adding calories to my 2, but I'll probably add some rice bran and alfalfa pellets and up my gelding's beet pulp. Plus they'll have more grass when I move them home (hopefully soon!) so that will help. At the end of the day, I just didn't want to stop the Equipride! I like it too much. I didn't realize the M10 was such large pellets. I don't really soak anything now. I just wet down the beet pulp (shreds) and mix in the Equipride so large pellets wouldn't be ideal anyway. So as long as I can continue to get the Equipride, that's what I'll stick with.

Now if only my hard keeping gelding wasn't so hard (and picky!)... I'm hoping he'll be willing to eat beet pulp this winter, but who knows... he decided half way through last winter that he didn't like it anymore... He thinks rice bran is poison. I could never get him to eat oil, but he loves flax seed and black oil sunflower seeds (but economically, the BOSS doesn't make sense).

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I use Equipride. My equine specialist vet told me that I should start using it for my gelding who had hoof problems. He (the vet) has a son that shows cutting horses and he told me that they keep all of their horses on Equipride.

The Equipride, along with Bet R Hoof, has made a MAJOR difference in my horses feet. At this point he has been on it for 14 months and his feet are almost "normal". He has a good solid foot except for the sides of his hoof. The hoof wall is still soft and weak there.(I have started him on a product called ColiClenz that is supposed to clean out the intestines for better absorption of the nutrients in his feed) I hope that this last product will be what I need to fully restore his feet to a normal condition. ..... but I digress....I wanted to say that my feed store also has to order in the Equipride. The dealer is a couple of hours from my town but my local feed store orders things from them all the time. I simply call in the order a few weeks before I actually need it and go and pick it up when it comes in. My Equipride runs a little over 50.00 for 50 pounds. (it would be in the mid to high $40's if I could get it direct, but it wouldn't pay to drive to that other town to pick it up myself!)

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I use Equipride. My equine specialist vet told me that I should start using it for my gelding who had hoof problems. He (the vet) has a son that shows cutting horses and he told me that they keep all of their horses on Equipride.

The Equipride, along with Bet R Hoof, has made a MAJOR difference in my horses feet. At this point he has been on it for 14 months and his feet are almost "normal".

I completely agree! My 2 have only been on it since May, but my farrier commented on the improvement of their feet. My mare, in particular, has vastly better feet since the switch.

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Ok. Now that it's turning into winter, I need some suggestions on putting weight on my mare. My gelding is fine, but the mare could use some help.

Due to circumstances that I'm too lazy to type out, she didn't go into winter as well as I'd have hoped. Not skinny, but on the slight side. Horses have since moved home and with the transition, she's lost a little bit more weight. At this point, I'd just like more weight on her. But with her issues, I never know WHAT to add. And since we have soy issues...

Right now she gets the equipride mixed with beet pulp (she doesn't do too well on beet pulp with her diarrhea, but she's not all that much better without it this time of year so I'm still feeding it), alfalfa pellets, and rice bran. I don't know the exact weights of everything (scale is with the hay and I just haven't weighed recently) but I'd say she's getting 1-2lbs beet pulp (dry), 2lbs alfalfa pellets, and 1-2lbs rice bran. I fed flax last year with good results, add that? Oil? Up the pellets/rice bran? I'm not sure how much the rice brans really does for her. Add a meal of alfalfa cubes? Weight builder or cool calories?

I've upped the hay recently (grass hay). I put out about 30lbs twice daily for the three of my guys in small hole nets. They usually finish up the 30lbs (or close to it), but if I put out more, it's not finished (I put out an extra 5-10lbs this AM and when I got home from work they probably still had 5-10lbs of hay left between the nets that they were working on). They also have the pasture that, while dried up, still gives them plently to graze at. While I only put 3 nets out at a time, I spread them out and though they play musical hay bags, everyone always has a place to eat.

Edited by subliminal

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(she doesn't do too well on beet pulp with her diarrhea, but she's not all that much better without it this time of year so I'm still feeding it),

Until you can fix this issue, you are going to have a hard time getting weight on her.

Edited by ozland

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Until you can fix this issue, you are going to have a hard time getting weight on her.

Problem is that we've struggled with the loose stools/diarrhea for almost 4 years now. Tried multiple things and no such luck. Everything from probiotics to antibiotics to steroids to metronidizole to azium to supplements to treating her for ulcers to diet changes (took her off everything but hay at one point, no change, everything but grass, no change, etc.). At this point, I've been told by the vets that all we can do is some kind of biopsy, but at the end of the day, we'd only know why but not wouldn't be able to do much about it.

The low weight issue is new since last year when we had a laminitis scare (turned out to be several abscesses). I cut everything back at the advice of the vet and then spent all winter getting weight back on her. I can get her weight up with Equine Senior, but she gets super gassy in addition to the diarrhea with the soy. Her weight in the spring, summer, and fall has been PERFECT. Even the vets mentioned that her weight was perfect.

I guess the main thing is to just up her calorie intake? She does do well on oats so I could add a couple pounds of oats a day as well.

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My 26+ Arab is also a hard keeper with gastric ulcers and prone to the runny bums - his manure isn't runny but he "drips" a lot of liquid after passing manure.

He's the one that is on Triple Crown Senior, rice bran, and a pound of straight alfalfa pellets daily.

I started him on "Daily Start" by EquiShine about three weeks ago. It is a pre-probiotic and so far, the leaking liquid has nearly disappeared and his manure is more solid and together than it's been in a few years.

Since that time, his tummy has rounded out really well and he doesn't resemble an auction horse anymore. He was never that thin but I sure didn't like his looks, especially for all the money I pour into him in an attempt to keep him healthy.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=16165

The word "Oligosaccharides" means there are also PREbiotics in the product. Prebiotics may be more important to sensitive digestive tracts than probiotics.

Not saying it's your answer but it's worth trying:)

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Problem is that we've struggled with the loose stools/diarrhea for almost 4 years now. Tried multiple things and no such luck. Everything from probiotics to antibiotics to steroids to metronidizole to azium to supplements to treating her for ulcers to diet changes (took her off everything but hay at one point, no change, everything but grass, no change, etc.). At this point, I've been told by the vets that all we can do is some kind of biopsy, but at the end of the day, we'd only know why but not wouldn't be able to do much about it.

The low weight issue is new since last year when we had a laminitis scare (turned out to be several abscesses). I cut everything back at the advice of the vet and then spent all winter getting weight back on her. I can get her weight up with Equine Senior, but she gets super gassy in addition to the diarrhea with the soy. Her weight in the spring, summer, and fall has been PERFECT. Even the vets mentioned that her weight was perfect.

I guess the main thing is to just up her calorie intake? She does do well on oats so I could add a couple pounds of oats a day as well.

What about sand clear? Has she been checked for sand in the gut?

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I started him on "Daily Start" by EquiShine about three weeks ago. It is a pre-probiotic and so far, the leaking liquid has nearly disappeared and his manure is more solid and together than it's been in a few years.

Since that time, his tummy has rounded out really well and he doesn't resemble an auction horse anymore. He was never that thin but I sure didn't like his looks, especially for all the money I pour into him in an attempt to keep him healthy.

http://www.drsfoster...fm?pcatid=16165

The word "Oligosaccharides" means there are also PREbiotics in the product. Prebiotics may be more important to sensitive digestive tracts than probiotics.

Not saying it's your answer but it's worth trying:)

I think I've tried a prebiotic, but honestly at this point, maybe not? Might be worth a try though again, I'm pretty sure she's been on prebiotics.

What about sand clear? Has she been checked for sand in the gut?

I'm not in an area with sand though I did do sand clear about 3 years ago in frustration. No real change.

She'd probably do really well on 100% alfalfa, but that's just not possible.

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