Zoe84

I Really Don't Know Which Way To Go-Navicular **updated W/ X Ray Pics & New Trim Pics**

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My best horse has just been diagnosed with navicular. I'm so upset & sick of my constant bad luck.

I thought I was doing everything right by having my young gelding (rising 4yo) trimmed regularly by a certified barefoot trimmer. I've always been for keeping horses barefoot & I've done so much research over the years & trim 2 of my own. I kept my 'good' horse trimmed by a professional to give him the best start. He's kept in a great paddock, I feed him well for a barefoot horse & he gets plenty of exercise. I thought barefoot was meant to prevent navicular???? Now the vet wants me to get him shod properly with wedges etc. My vet hates barefoot trimmers & already I am the laughing stock of our area coz I keep my horses barefoot & everyone else shoes. This is just the icing on the cake. The more I read barefoot trimming for navicular just makes so much more sense then shoes. I don't know what to do; if I go the barefoot route I won't have the support of my vet. If I go with shoes I'll be going against what I believe & have learnt & not only that I feel like I'll be reducing my horses working life & worsening his condition. But I don't want to experiment with him & I have no support of the barefoot 'movement' around here.

What should I do??

Edited by Zoe84

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First, try not to panic.

"Navicular" is such a misnomer because it's a syndrome not a "diagnosis" per se. It's the buzz word vets usually pull out to describe heel pain.

Let's start with a good set of pictures (see the stickied post in this forum to get the ones we hoofies need) and we'll go from there.

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Like Chocomare said, don't panic. My horse was diagnosed as navicular by a vet as a six year old. He's now coming 12 and doesn't have navicular and never did. He's been barefoot the whole time except for a week with shoes with which a farrier tried to "fix" him. Long story short, he foundered, whether from the shoe job or other causes, I don't know. But he's sound now barefoot. A lot of vets will tell you to pull shoes and try barefoot if they have "navicular syndrome."

Take the photos and let the barefoot people help you.

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What does your vet actually mean when he diagnosed your horse with navicular and was this diagnosis made from viewing x-rays. Sometimes vets seem to diagnose a horse with navicular when they don't have a clue what is wrong! My horse was diagnosed navicular and after pulling shoes he is now 100%. We had setbacks along the road and I have since learnt that high heels and high bars cause him pain in the back of the foot and he is also lame when he eats too much alfalfa. Yes post some photos it could be something as simple as high or imbedded bars.

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No disrespect to your vet - but you may be best advised to deal with a foot specialist - aka - farrier - for foot problems.

Have you read about what navicular is?

I think it will help you decide how to handle it if you have a really good understanding.

I used to have a saddlebred long time ago. The parkiest flashiest shiniest beast you've ever seen. She NEVER walked anywhere.......she paraded. She trotted with her chin tucked her neck arched and her knees just about coming up to her nose.

And her FEET - pounding on the grass, gravel or pavement - whatever she was on.

She literally would stop traffic.

Gotta say - it was a bit of a head trip.

Unfortunately she was bought at the end of her "career

She had spent the first eighteen years being this way..........and quite literally wore her feet out.

Or more accurately - wore her navicular bone(s) out.......this was confirmed by x-ray at the provincial vet college.

MY understanding is that this condition is less about being caused by food etc. - but rather a physical condition. Like I described above - or - poorly angled hooves - that kind of thing.

I have to say, that unless there was an x-ray involved in this diagnosis - I would be skeptical. I ALSO have to say that the vet's words might only being used to described perhaps a PROPENSITY to go down the navicular road - rather than a definitive "horse has it" diagnosis

Edited by Cactus Rose

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Thanks for saying not to panic!! Couldn't sleep last night & woke up feeling sick.

unfortunately it was diagnosed with nerve blocks & x rays. Fortunately as he is my absolute fave horse I decided not to 'wait out' his slight near forelimb lameness that I couldn't find any reason for & got our vet asap. So we have caught it VERY early. (probably coz he is barefoot? If he'd been shod I wouldn't have noticed anything & it would have progressively gotten worse)

But WHY has his trimming allowed him to get navicular? It makes you think you can't doanything bloody right.

he has always landed toe first at the trot which has really irked me. Like a hacky. And flat foot at best at a walk. His conformation looks like it should allow heel first landing.

There are 2 specialist farriers coming to our place this week, I'll have a yarn with both of them. I won't make any drastic decsions on the spot. I took pics with my phone off the x ray machine which I'll try to post & take pics of his feet.

Thanks heaps guys :)

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Even if xrays show what evidence used to be called navicular bone damage, the horse may not have the disease. This has been proved by xrays from healthy, sound horses showing the same "damage" but no lameness. It seems warmbloods' navicular bones especially show the "telltale signs" even when there are no soundness issues. Do research navicular and I think you will feel better about it and keeping your horse barefoot. Could be you just need a new farrier. Meanwhile, post photos so people in the know can help you.

My horse was diagnosed with xrays too.

Edited by jubal

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but x rays WITH lameness in both fore legs would definitely point to navicular wouldn't it?

I've done a ton of reading & until then was ready to go down the shoeing road.

What was the outcome of your horse jubal?

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The horse I was talking about above was sold back to the vendor.

For fifty percent of selling price.

(rolling eyes)

It was shod with bar shoes and pads and the toes shortened.

Apparently it was able to be ridden in an arena after that - eventually I understand WITHOUT shoes on.............however it was ultimately turned into a brood mare.

http://www.novickdvm.com/navicula.htm

The first and most important point of this entire article is that Navicular Disease is NOT TERMINAL. With treatment and care the large majority of horses that have a diagnosis of navicular disease can be managed and returned to their previous level of performance. A horse diagnosed with navicular disease is similar to that of a human track athlete with bad feet. It does not mean that the track star can never run again. What it means is that he or she has to be aware of the problem and take special care of his or her feet. The same is true for a horse with navicular disease.

Edited by Cactus Rose

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Your problem is the way the horse is moving. Even a barefoot horse that travels with a toe first movement is predisposed for navicular pain because the pulley function of the tendons over the nav bone is improper always with a toe first landing.

If this were MY horse and I could not get him traveling properly barefoot and get the back of the foot really built up and strong, I would look to something like this and start rehabilitation and see just how far I could get. I also might look into using sole guard or some such and try to figure out why the horse is moving toe first. Stretching can really help a muscle bound horse and chiro work is also sometimes helpful. The bottom line is there IS a reason for the toe first. Your job is to discover it and stop it. Its usually a poorly developed back fo the foot. Some horses need shoes and padding to develop it properly and become confident in their feet.

http://www.whpublish...bhcc-20-23.html

Edited by Trinity

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when I had my navicular mare I use the Ground Controls, they are softer to land on, but help majorly in pain.. and also encourage a really good movement. By protecting the hoof SOME, it will let him be in less doscomfort and allow him to work on heal first landing.

I used these for a year with my paint mare, she was diagnosed and nerved with x-rays, to be VERY far long in her navicular pattern. I was introduced to these when I was doing a TON of research on the internet, I found these and asked my trimmer if he could work with them, they were way easy for him to work with, and after a year, she was Vetted SOUND barefoot when same vet mentioned PTS being better for her..

She lived quite some time longer with a good trimmer and lots of kids to ride around on her.. She was a great mare and finding she had navicular, Man what a heart breaker..

I found the ground controls and worked with a good trimmer, and we worked towars her feet getting stronger and better.. it took her a year to regrow her hoof angles, and the difference was night and day.. I do miss her, but conformationally she was doomed to begine with.. down hill and upright on ever angle.. she was 20 when she passed.

Edited by kitten-kat

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With my horse, I had him xrayed to begin with because he had stumbled badly twice, going to his knees.The second time, I broke my collar bone. He was xrayed and the same day, had a West Nile vaccine and two tranq shots to get him to drop for sheath cleaning. They didn't work and the vet tried to clean him anyway which really stressed the horse. He also had been put into a grazing muzzle two days earlier and that stressed him badly too. Then he was shod and two days later was down in his stall with laminitis. Any of those things could have caused it, I guess. He rotated and so I layed him off for a year and meanwhile, learned the barefoot trim from Pete Ramey's book and this web site. After about four months he was not lame any longer, but I was still hesitant to ride him. When I did start riding again, it was only pleasure riding and lower level dressage because he still stumbled occasionally and I was afraid of him falling again.

Fast forward to two years ago. He came up lame with a big knot over the annular ligament in his left front. The vet said it was old because it was cold and hard but I knew better because I handle his legs every day. Anyway, . Did xrays and ultrasound. Showed nothing and the vet didn't think the annular ligament was causing the lameness. I waited five months and he was still lame so I sent him to the clinic for surgery to cut the annular ligament. The surgeon called and said he was going to do an MRI while he was out because he had noticed puffiness in the fetlock and he wanted to make sure the joint capsule was not compromised. The MRI showed a ganglion cyst within the annular ligament. They cut it out when they cut the ligament. He came sound after the surgery and I started riding him this past spring. He has never stumbled badly since and both front feet started developing in the heel after the surgery.

Soooo.... My horse is sound and doesn't have navicular disease. The navicular bones look the same on xrays as they did when he was six.

I think the cyst was there all along and pressing on the tendon periodically causing him to stumble,but I'll never know for sure. Veterinary medicine is not an exact science.

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Jubal WOW what a story. I'm so glad things are going well for your horse now.

Guys thanks for your stories, advice etc. On the wkend I will get pics of his feet & also a short video of him in action. I have to get this horse feeling better, I absolutely adore him & had many high hopes for him. This is my second really good horse to have a seriously diagnosed issue in 3 years. I just can't get anywhere & can't understand what I am doing wrong :(

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Yes Jubal, good story! Good endings are always more than welcome. :smilie: Ditto to Trinity's post as well.

You are wise to not give an an answer to anyone, until you've had time to digest it, including the cost. Definitely not the wedges. That's old school. It has been deemed by the higher ups that wedging is not supportive and is detrimental. I cringe when I see it still being prescribed. I am in hopes that these two farriers will have something refreshing to say, in line with your thinking....and the vet...he's not the only vet in world, either. Definitely have those xrays in hand when they come. They will be able to give you a 2nd and 3rd opinion on them.

What's his name?...your horse, that is. :smilie:

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My appy mare was diagnosed navicular when she was about 9.

She is coming up on 19 now--and doing great.

My farrier and vets feel most horses that develop true navicular issues are prone to it from breeding and build. Small feet on stocky horses in particular.

I have had barefoot horses most of my life. Only shoe when necessary.

Shoeing my mare with special gel pads has kept her sound.

We tried going back to barefoot, but no success. In her shoes and pads--she is great.

Each horse is unique, so try everything to find what works.

Edited by badlandsbia

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I agree with Trinity

'Your problem is the way the horse is moving. Even a barefoot horse that travels with a toe first movement is predisposed for navicular pain because the pulley function of the tendons over the nav bone is improper always with a toe first landing.

Even though you kept him barefoot, for some reason he traveled landing toe first-a commom prelude to navicular.

I aslo would be very interested in seeing his feet. How are his frogs?

He probably needed something besides barefoot to have him travelling correct, whether that be boots with pads, thrush treatment, etc

When the back of the foot is not used correctly, it becomes even less capable and sensitive. First comes soft tissue damage and then true navicualr bone changes.

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I really believe that tradition farrier wedging is not the way to go. They tend to leave too much heel and toe run forward and wedge too high without frog support and stimulation and hard wedges. BUT in the video I linked above, you will see they use a reasonably small degree of wedging plus (most importantly) a serious but flexible frog pad and fill to build up what is missing and encourage a frog first/heel first landing. It isnt meant to be long term either if you listen to the game plan.

I think this is a very viable treatment option for horses who will not travel heel first with other methods. You must find heel first landings. Its imperative for healing. Its not really a wedge in the tradition sense for me. Its trimming away under run heels and getting the foot back under the bone so it can articulate properly and building the back of the foot up with the wedge to where it SHOULD have been were the foot healthy with a full frog and DC etc. As the tissue develops and the pain goes away, the wedge will decrease and then eventually go away. He says 3 to 4 shoeings I believe. That is completely reasonable. If Gene believed we needed to wedge my horse, I would absolutely let him.

Gene is a genius IMO. I love Pete, but I think Gene is taking it a step further in healing and even simplifying things more for people who have not yet developed an eye with hoof mapping. I borrow from both (and more) but am leaning more towards NB trimming because the mapping is so very needed. Too many people cant see what I see without it.

Edited by Trinity

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THANK YOU for that video Trinity. Watched it with great interest. You're right, he really 'dulls' things down & simplifies things. It's what I exactly need, if things seem a little bit too hard or over my head I just switch off.

So I've made a decision. I'm going the barefoot/boots/pad route :)

My friend and I have been antagonising over it since I found out the other day he has navicular. We found this website http://www.barehoofcare.com/rehab.html and my hopes soared, especially after reading all your stories too. Unfortunately this guy is over 10 hours away but I got in touch with a local lady http://www.bareequine.com.au/index.htm who does boot fitting & trimming & was delighted to find out that she trained under this guy for treating navicular horses. I feel a bit better about the whole thing now.

Missy his name is Tannen, Tan for short. This is him (on the left)

tanakira_zps755fea93.jpg

And a classic toe first landing

PA010554.jpg

Ha ha.

Yay! I have hope now. Thanks heaps guys :) stay tuned for feet pics :)

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He's gorgeous! I do see signs of long toe, long breakover and flare, but that's all I'll say with these pics. He could have been due for a trim at the time. Ok, but need to be on top of the trim at all times to move forward. What has his schedule been like.... should be 4 weeks, in the future. Flare forward is one of the culprits of navicular. This can be a trimming error and even be coupled with metabolic unrest. What's he eating?

Have you borrowed the xrays proper from the vet to have in hand or whatever? I'd take a full set of good pics with a camera, clean feet, good lighting, put them up on here.. We can show you what you're seeing and explain why. In a month's time, take another set of pictures and if you think you're not moving forward for any reason, all you have to do is look back. If the hoof is to be covered, then get the trim shots before this happens.

Are you feeding minerals? Particularly zinc and copper? It would give him the coat color he was born with and possibly all the brown on him would fade to his darker color. (and then add some dapples as well) Copper is also key to good connective tissue strength for the hooves. I turned a horse with this color to jet black and in the summer sun in 3 months. The more I find and find out about copper, the higher esteem I give it. No Thrush made my eyebrows go up and I had used it on the skin, against fungus. Copper is lined in one pair of my socks and my feet have never been warmer. :smilie:

As for the negativity, let it ride over you and continue to be friendly. As long as he's booted and comfortable, they should be satisfied. That's your priority too anyway.

He's going to walk away from this. He's just too darn young for this BS. (sorry) He needs to be balanced in foot and food. The trimmer will take care of the balance, the rest is your homework to see him comfortable in boots and start moving to work that trim with the padding. Always fight thrush. If thrush is eating the hoof away, nothing can build and develop. Promenade Walks, 20 min./day on a hard/flat surface...asphalt, driveway, concrete barn aisle, etc. I suspect that not only will he walk away, but fly away from this and in the end, the strong/balanced hooves won't need boots and if the heels need to be a little longer than usual, so be it, its right for him. :smilie: The movement/development is key. I suspect that the tendon sheaths may be inflamed, where they crunch backwards from a toe first landing. Things are supposed to be flowing forward and that takes a heel first landing, just like you. Are you feeding any supplements? Ask the trimmer's opinion on this as well.

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http://photobucket.com/albums/k542/Mojash/Tans%20Feet

Link to album. A pic of his paddock that he spends 80% of his time in. (He's a very possessive/colty horse & tears shreds of the new gelding. Sometimes he has to have time out in the yard around my house, and spends some nights there.) Pic of their dam, and confo shot of him standing naturally in his paddock. Tell me what you all think of his current trim?? I can't bear to look at them in detail, especially after watching that video, they really do look all wrong. Can't believe I didn't say anything to the trimmer when she left & I was looking at his feet all those times. She got in touch with me to say he's due tomorrow (Missy in answer to your question he was on a 4 week trim cycle but in the last few months she stretched it to 5) and I didn't know what to say, so just told her he had navicular & I was in the process of discussing with the vet what the next plan of attack was & I would let her know. She said she would take more off his quarters for relief. I don't want her trimming him at this stage. I tried to be polite.

Feeding:currently just hay. Lucurne & oaten. Was on speedi beet & oats with RETREAD (a biotin hoof food)

http://www.vetandpetproducts.com/catalogue/c17/c6/c103/c113/p1016

and a SUPER small scoop of prydes easi response just coz he loves it. I've been trying to knock the weight off him but as the top of the pecking order it's hard. Have to separate the others or take him out so they all get the right stuff. If they all just get hay he cleans it all up. Vet said he needs to lose weight too. Hard when they're such good doers!

Missy thanks for your encouraging words :) Very very uplifting.

Edited by Zoe84

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Well, He is way long, uneven, has under run heels and has seedy toe. This is 5 weeks out? For a horse on a 4 week or even 5 week schedule, it doesnt look too great at all and the lack of balance and flare is concerning. The back of his foot looks pretty lacking for a big horse, but I think with a better trim and the flare reduced and his heels lowered and backed up at the proper angle, his frogs wouldnt look so pounded and flat and would start rounding out and filling in. Id probably consider a shoe job just as Gene shows up there with the frog pad too to really get him confident in a heel first movement and comfortable. You dont have to keep them on forever. Or even a round of casting or two but that seedy toe would have to be dealt with. You cant cover it up. There is alot of improvement that can be made in these feet. Im thinking you really need a new good farrier.

Edited by Trinity

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Agreed. This is going to clean up nicely and the padding will protect for awhile to get him over the hump. The concavity isn't half bad Just a lot of flare, flared forward and flared heels. Once the parts and pieces are back where they belong and balanced, things will start working properly and it will make all the difference to this navicular diagnosis.

As Trinity mentioned, the pounded flat frog to the slate-like appearane of the sole, it looks like its pretty dry around there. .Know that thrush can thrive in this environment as well .The frog is incredibly dynamic. It should be bulging and rounded into a perfect heart shape and feel like Indian Rubber.. When I look at this foot, I am also reminded of copper deficiency as well. Too much iron, too many carbs, overweight. I took a look at the Retread, and it fits it name. A bunch of methionine and a very inadequate amount of biotin. The Easi-Response addresses the whole horse better, but is still inadequate for needs or balance and adds more iron which kills the copper and zinc. All this stuff is already in the hay, including the iron and 3/4's or more of his daily intake is hay, so he's getting it and getting more in his hay than any store bought supplement would contribute.

If this were my horse, what I would do strip the diet right down.

a) Determine how much he weighs,..in kilograms, then feed him 1.5% of his weight and when he loses to just right (ideal weight), then start feeding him 1.5% of his ideal weight. I would put the hay in slow feeders for all and hang them around so that when one gets piggy, all he does is rotate the herd. The slow feeders will regulate his intake and make it last longer. He won't be able to eat faster/finish and then go steal others. He'll move to the next bag, make everyone rotate and they'll all be eating at the same speed. More importantly, this rotation is the horses moving themselves = more movement. It isn't exact science, feeding multiple horses at multiple bags, but know the weight of hay you need, memorize the bulk of it, and know at least that you are not overfeeding.

B) A handful of oats, no more, or beet pulp, just as a carrier for...

c) 4oz. of fresh ground flax, ground up in a $10 coffee grinder just before feeding. These are a perfect balance of omegas with higher 3 than 6 and acts as an anti-inflammatory. It will also put a deep shine on his coat

d) 2000Iu of E/day, If its natural E, which is better absorbed, then you only need to go to 1600IU. Know his weight and use the guide of 2IU/kg.of body weight. If you go the powdered E route, which can be pricier, you'll can also get Selenium with it and they need to be together to be absorbed. The E needs oil to be absorbed as well, so mixing the powder in a tbn. of oil, then mixing it in to the feed, does the trick...or you can get Vit E gelcaps at Walmart. (Selenium needs E and E needs oil..3 musketeers of optimal absorption)

e) Diamond V Yeast for a healthy gut. The directions on the bag say 1/8 cup, which I interpet as a small handful. Both the flax and yeast will last forever.

f) California Trace Minerals. will see you add adequate amounts of Copper and Zinc, without the iron added. Copper will deepen his true color, tighten up his feet, make them stronger and help to spit out thrush. This is where you are really going to hit the nail on the head.

g) 1 tbn. of iodized salt which gets you your electroylytes and some iodine thrown in as well. If he is worked hard and sweating sometime in the future, or its so hot that he's standing there sweating, don't be afraid to up the salt to 2 or 3 tbns.

The California Trace is a bit pricey, but the rest is cheap and I'd quit the Easi-Response too. Just what's above listed here. Once she has the horse set up and comfortable, it will be time to work it and make him move. Also fight thrush. Getting clean is half the battle. Hold the foot over a bucket and with a long handled brush like people keep at their kitchen sink, scrub vigorously with Dawn Dish soap, then go to a toothbrush to get into the cracks and if the toothbrush doesn't go down to the very bottom of those cracks, get the Q-Tips out and clean gently but deeply. Thrush can hide in the bottom of a crack and continue to eat internally, while you think everything is fine at the surface. Then treat for thrush, including the remaining seedy toe areas. Once the torque of the flare is removed, the seedy toe will start to resolve itself. This treatment will also help greatly to waking up that leather-looking frog and make it come alive again, with the pads putting it back to work and helping it also. Getting the hoof balanced and working properly will also improve blood flow. The health of that frog IS the padding under the navicular bone....go for it. If the heels are shortened and weighted and the frog is not ready to work with the heels, they hurt and the horse will go right back to a toe first landing again....completely defeated. Start this cleaning regime now and continue it after the trimmer has left. So, thrush treatment and when comfortable....movement to develop the hoof and lose weight. Every step he takes towards this is a step away from IR or Cushings, and you don't want to go there. With this in mind, you have to be a mean Mom....no tired grass, no green spring grass, no sugar, no treats. Ok, you can give him an apple a day to keep the vet away, but make him earn it in movement first. I don't feed from my hand, so I started dropping them on the ground. Now I call a name and throw it 50', call another, throw again and watch them all chase them down. Whatever works, make him move every chance you get.

Check out Uckele.com for supplements in mind with this thinking. Also mybesthorse.com. Joan will talk to you and help. There is a product there called Move-Ease that she has put together and I'm feeding right now. Its made my eyebrows go up on killing pain a few times now. It's a great alternative to Bute, is not a NSAID and is totally safe.

The California Trace has Selenium in it, and lysine and iodine and methionine. The E in it has 750IU and could easily be be brought up to par at 2000IU with 3-400IU gelcaps per day.....done. It also has the proper amount of Biotin at 20mg/day, not 2mg, like the Retread or the Easi-Response. And most importantly, NO IRON. Its exactly what he needs.

Most of all be patient. He didn't get this way overnight and it won't be fixed overnight, but if you do your homework you'll get there much faster. :smilie:

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This horse was was being trimmed by a supposed certiified barefoot trimmer?

You need a new one!

No surprising that he is landing toe first!

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Hi guys,

Missy thank you as usual for your very well thought out and detailed reply. I have printed it off & gone thru each thing. Got the flax seed, vit. E (any particular oil good to mix with?), have ordered the salt with iodine and the diamond V I have to order from another feed supplier but I found some brewer's yeast so that will do until I can get the other stuff?

Ok so we don't have the California Trace here in Oz, would there be anything similar that you can reccommend? This Equilibrium is a very commonly fed supplement here http://www.equiaustralia.com.au/default.asp?menu=comp But I can't for the life of me figure of the ratios of oz to kg and how to match it all up to make sure that all the ingredients are there in the right quantities. Also the Equilibrium has iron in it and the California Trace has none?? A lot of other people feed this bloke's stuff

http://www.kohnkesown.com/view_product.php?prod_id=2

So I am looking for no or low iron?

The trimmer still hasn't got back to me & the vet still hasn't sent the x rays thru. I love reliable people!

Thanks again :)

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Olive oil, just a tbn., enough to mix with the vitamin E. No to the Khonkesow. There is no copper in it and the site won't show the analysis.

The Equilibrium is interesting. Its beyond me, though this is an Australian product. I would also ask the vet or nutritionist who knows your area what he recommends. Yes, low iron, but speak to the vet. Australian soils are quite different than over here. See what else is available and products recommended.

With Equilibrium, the feeding directions according to the pleasure horse category, feed 1 1/2 scoops. 1 scoop delivers 70g, so 105g/day delivered/day in that category. I would also take a harder look at it. A product like this would cover more bases, like the selenium, for example. If you fed this, you would probably be able to drop the Vit E.supplementation. It definitely looks better than the Kohnkesow.

This would be a very good person to talk to: Carol Layton. She balanced diets for Dr. Kellon in Nutrition class. She knows her stuff.

http://www.balancedequine.com.au/

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Thank you Missyclare! Well the only person to return my calls & actually come out was the master farrier & I was dreading that he would suggest shoes...thankfully he said why bother with shoes when we can try & rectify the trim & make him more comfortable. Wow what a difference! I only got a few pics so I'll post one for a comparison. He is already landing heel first at walk AND trot! It's an amazing difference. I've switched the feed to everything you suggested, got a lower grade hay & I'm hand walking him morning & arvo on surfaces that he's comfortable on. This afternoon I walked him up & down the bitumin outside our place for 20 minutes. He seems comfy on it.

Thanks again & I will keep you posted with his progress!!

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Thanks jubal & southerngurl :)

Ok so he's on his new diet, everything except for the mineral supplement, I'm waiting to hear back from nutritionist re. the best choice. Figured there's not much point in trail & error-huge waste of money, may as well speak to an expert. Took him a while to get used to the new food (honestly its not THAT different to his normal feed, horses are such sooks) and I thought I'd add a pic from the master farrier from a few weeks ago...(I've been in bloody hospital & pretty much immobile so haven't been able to take all round pics)

Then I got in touch with a really good trimmer in the area, yes she is young and still learning, but I was so impressed with her knowledge & keeness that I got her out (and my friend got her to do hers too) and she gave me so much encouragement & is almost as keen as I am to get him better & it's not even her horse! She has a lot of enthusiasm for trimming. Here is her site if you're interested:

http://www.theglorioushoof.com.au/

She did another trim as he had already grown heaps of foot since old mate was out here (says a lot?) and thinks that he may not even need boots. I've been walking him on the trails, then riding him on the grass. He's still a tiny bit lame on the left turns (which is what alerted me originally) but LANDING HEEL FIRST!! And really forward & happy.

Onto the pics, if you are still with me!

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When I am more mobile & can hold a hoof I'll take pics of her trim.

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Holy crap no wonder he's lame. Flare, false sole, bars laid over, jam on the inside, splat on the outside. Yeah, I'd be ouchie too. I'll leave any picture marking to the experts. Just be forewarned, boots that fit him now, won't after a few good trims and getting that flare off of there.

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