MiSSxZURi

Pregnancy/labor/delivery!

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None of you know what I have been through in my life as far as pain. I just know how to hold it in and not be a drama queen. No matter what happens to me, I would never scream and be so rude to every person in a hospital. It is called having some class and respect to others. You can hold it in to a lower volume.

I have also been present in quite a few births with friends and family, and not once did any of them scream like the women were that day. Some had drugs, 1 C-section none had natural like I did.

I agree! I can get moaning and groaning and even surprised gasping but the screaming at the top of the lungs? Over kill and doesn't stop the pain.

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I kinda of think that screaming your lungs out, would be using a lot of your energy that you might need to have for the delivery.

Well sure. But again, it comes back to poorly prepared women who are afraid. I mean, look at how media portray childbirth in every movie and tv show ever. Women are conditioned to expect the Worst. Experience. Ever. and so I don't think it should be surprising people are screaming.

But I don't think looking down on them or making fun of them is really helpful. And again, it is wonderful that your experiences went so well and relatively easily. Not everyone is the same. It is entirely possible the pain levels you felt were different from what I felt which were different from what the lady down the hall feels. I'm not going to mock someone else for being terrified and not able to handle their pain, or being uneducated on ways to deal with it.

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That's what you may think. But I'll lay odds on a large percentage of people reading this think the same thing.

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That's what you may think. But I'll lay odds on a large percentage of people reading this think the same thing.

And yet again, I couldn't care less.

I get that the majority of you don't like me. And that's fine. I really didnt join this board to gain your acceptance.

I just think sharing experiences among other horse people helps broaden the knowledge and makes myself and others better horse people because of it.

If you don't like me, block me. If you want to continue seeing what I post, then keep on keeping on. Hating on me is not gonna make me go anywhere and the only time I will ever stop posting is if I get banned, I die, or life gets too busy.

People hatin on me won't get rid of me. That's too easy and I got thicker skin than to be ran off by an old lynch mob full of hormonal yappers.

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I would have went back got my records, set up a meeting with the doctor,nurses, called a board of reveiw, go over the facts, Get their reasoning why theywent against your wishes.. Usually they don't unless they see a possible probelm coming or to prevent a possible probelm that you were unware or don't exactly remember their reasoning at the time.

I think you were pretty out of it. Remember you were on drugs... Before Blaming/accusing. Should of gotten the facts from them.Not go by another persons word or how you you feeling at the time.

As you stated you never went back for your check-up. Did you know you could have file a complaint against them as well..

It wasn't worth it at that point. It was over, I knew better now, and I was implementing my knowledge for going forward. I don't care about bit*h slapping the ones who did me wrong, I just move on.

I wasn't out of anything though. I was coherent and remember everything I saw. I didn't SEE them cutting me, neither did my doula or my ex husband. I noticed it after ward, as you can imagine, I was displeased to say the LEAST. I did tell her in a brief phone conversation that x, y and z happened against my wishes and all she had to say was we can talk about it at your follow up. I said I wasn't going to it and she said to write a letter. I wrote a letter and never heard back, but since I was technically her patient I did get a notice months later when she apparently transferred to another location. Whatever.

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Considering I have seen (and heard) of babies (and mothers) dying because they were ignorant and wanted an "at home birth"...I'd go with risking the hospital anyday.

Mid wives aren't as great as you claim. Many women and babies have died in their care.

When you have trouble during labor, sometimes you only have mere minutes to open up and fix the issue. Time is of the essence when the crap hits the fan and you don't got time to dink around at home with an unlicensed "medical professional."

You SAW a woman die in childbirth at home? Prove it.

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I kinda of think that screaming your lungs out, would be using a lot of your energy that you might need to have for the delivery.

EXACTLY!!! There a WAY more effecient ways to manage your pain and get the job done right. But really, if that what helps a woman get a baby out, so be it. I really don't care if a woman has to make the dumbest noises ever (I cracked up when my doula made example noises of pain relief, I won't even lie) or whathaveyou. I don't think it's really important enough to judge about either.

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And yet again, I couldn't care less.

I get that the majority of you don't like me. And that's fine. I really didnt join this board to gain your acceptance.

I just think sharing experiences among other horse people helps broaden the knowledge and makes myself and others better horse people because of it.

If you don't like me, block me. If you want to continue seeing what I post, then keep on keeping on. Hating on me is not gonna make me go anywhere and the only time I will ever stop posting is if I get banned, I die, or life gets too busy.

People hatin on me won't get rid of me. That's too easy and I got thicker skin than to be ran off by an old lynch mob full of hormonal yappers.

But you're not above staying in front of your computer goading such people.

Whatever, you don't bother me much and I do get a kick out of the things you say in these threads. I think you're just for show, but sometimes that is what people need when there's not much else in their life. :confused0024:

Anywho...

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But you're not above staying in front of your computer goading such people.

Whatever, you don't bother me much and I do get a kick out of the things you say in these threads. I think you're just for show, but sometimes that is what people need when there's not much else in their life. :confused0024:

Anywho...

Oh dayum. Someone on the Internet found me out.

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Okate, she's a figment of her own imagination.

...........an immaculate misconception.........

* * * * * * *

Do you not "GET" Blondy - that it's not YOU.

It is NOT YOU.

It's the WORDS that come out of your piehole.

These random thoughts and dreams that you had the night before that you state as FACT.

But if you are bound and determined that you simply MUST present us with a turd.................PLEASE..............at least coat it in dark chocolate.

NOT COD LIVER OIL !

Edited by Cactus Rose

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Well?

Obviously I haven't seen someone die at home while giving child birth which is why I said seen or heard.

I've seen a corpse, the victim of being told by those home birthers that it was safe and better than a hospital.

And of course you hear about it as well.

Kind of hard to prove given the Hippa Laws.

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Obviously I haven't seen someone die at home while giving child birth which is why I said seen or heard.

I've seen a corpse, the victim of being told by those home birthers that it was safe and better than a hospital.

And of course you hear about it as well.

Kind of hard to prove given the Hippa Laws.

You said you've seen AND heard of mothers and babies dying, basically because they're delusional about what is safe. How can/dud you see this happen, then? I call horse shiza.

People can die anywhere, you know, and while the corpse you saw may or may not have been an uneducated, unfortunate woman who died at home trying to birth her baby, that doesn't mean much. Heck, who knows if that's even true.

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Kind of long but definitely worth the read...especially if you plan on a home birth.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/25/home-birth-increasingly-popular-but-dangerous.html

Home Birth: Increasingly Popular, But Dangerous

by Michelle GoldbergJun 25, 2012 4:45 AM EDT

A small but growing number of mothers are skipping hospitals to have their babies at home. Michelle Goldberg reports on what?s fueling the trend?and the hidden dangers at hand.

Mindy Bizzell decided to have her second son at home partly because of money and partly because of faith. She and her husband, who had recently moved to a remote town on the Washington state coast, lacked health insurance but earned too much to qualify for state aid. Delivering her baby in a hospital would cost upward of $10,000, compared with the roughly $3,000 it would cost to hire a home-birth midwife to take care of the entire pregnancy.

John Carleton / Getty Images

Besides, Bizzell, who grew up in what she calls a ?pseudo-hippie household,? believed in home birth. During college, she?d considered becoming a midwife herself, and had spent a week at The Farm, the rural Tennessee community and midwifery center founded by the natural-childbirth guru Ina May Gaskin. Bizzell had attempted to have her first baby at home, though she was transferred to a hospital when her labor didn?t progress quickly enough. The experience left her feeling like a failure, and she wanted to try again. She figured that if something went wrong, she could go to the hospital like she had the first time.

She found a midwife she trusted, Tamra Roloff, a great admirer of Gaskin who owned the local health-food store, THC Organic Market. ?She was just like, ?Your birth is going to be amazing, it?s going to be so powerful,?? Bizzell recalls. ?There was a lot of this earth goddess empowering stuff.?

All this resonated with Bizzell. The home-birth subculture, she says, draws ?you in with the idea that this kind of birth will make you a powerful woman. It will make you spiritual. It will even make you a better mother.? She longed for all of that. ?I wanted to make the best decisions for my baby,? she says. ?And now he?s dead. It turns out I made the worst decision possible.?

A few decades ago, home birth in the United States was mostly limited to insular religious communities like the Amish and to dedicated members of the counterculture like Gaskin, whose husband founded The Farm as a commune in the 1970s. In recent years, though, it?s moved toward the mainstream, spurred by the rise of attachment parenting, a reaction against a dysfunctional medical system, and pro-midwife documentaries like The Business of Being Born, which featured producer Ricki Lake giving birth in her bathtub. Though still quite small, the number of home births is increasing?according to the Centers for Disease Control, it grew 29 percent between 2004 and 2009, to 29,650.

The practice is also increasingly chic. ?Are midwives becoming trendy, like juice cleanses and Tom?s shoes?? asked a story in The New York Times style section earlier this month. ?It seems that way, at least among certain well-dressed pockets of New York society, where midwifery is no longer seen as a weird, fringe practice favored by crunchy types, but as an enlightened, more natural choice for the famous and fashionable.? Some of the women in the Times piece had their midwife-assisted births in hospitals, but others, like the models Karolina Kurkova and Gisele B?ndchen, delivered at home.

For many parents, home birth is a transcendent experience, and they?re profoundly grateful to have been able to have their babies on their own terms. Yet as the number of such births grows, so does the number of tragedies?and those stories tend to be left out of soft-focus lifestyle features. Now a small but growing number of people whose home deliveries have gone horribly awry have started speaking out, some of them on a blog, Hurt by Homebirth, set up by former Harvard Medical School instructor Amy Tuteur. ?These people are beating themselves up over this,? says Tuteur, perhaps the country?s fiercest critic of the home-birth subculture. ?They did it because they thought it was safe, and it wasn?t safe.?

Actually, hard numbers on the safety of home birth are surprisingly difficult to nail down. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists says that home birth is several times more dangerous than hospital birth. But the group acknowledges that ?high-quality evidence to inform this debate is limited.? There?s no central registry of home birth deaths, and the studies that exist are mired in controversy. It?s clear that some parents have lost babies during home births that could have been saved had they been in a hospital. Whether than means that the risk of home birth is significant depends on which experts you listen to.

A 2010 meta-analysis of the medical literature known as the Wax Paper, published in the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, found that planned home birth has a two to three times higher risk of neonatal mortality than hospital birth. Home-birth advocates, though, dispute the reliability of the underlying research. For them the gold standard is a 2005 study by Canadian epidemiologist Kenneth C. Johnson and his wife, Betty-Anne Daviss, a well-known home-birth midwife. Published in the British Medical Journal, it involved 5,418 North American women who planned home births in 2000. It found that they had similar perinatal mortality?meaning babies who died just before, during, or immediately after birth?as low-risk hospital births, along with lower rates of medical intervention.

But Tuteur points out that the figures Johnson and Daviss used for hospital deaths came from studies from the 1970s and 1980s. ?They sliced and diced the data to fool people who are not sophisticated,? she says. When she compared Daviss and Johnson?s home-birth figures with data on hospital births in 2000 from the National Center for Health Statistics, she found that for women with comparable risks, the perinatal death rate was almost three times higher in home births. That, she says, ?is in line with every single other study that?s ever been done of other home-birth statistics.?

She points to figures from Colorado, one of the few states that mandates the collection of data from licensed home-birth midwives. In 2009 midwives performed 637 deliveries and transferred another 160 patients to the hospital either before or during labor. Altogether, the midwives? patients suffered nine perinatal deaths, almost double the perinatal mortality rate for the entire state, including high-risk and premature deliveries. Three of the nine babies died during labor, which is extremely rare in hospital births.

Johnson and Daviss reject Tuteur?s interpretation of their figures. In response to her criticism, they self-published an analysis with updated data that they say replicates their original results. Tuteur, in turn, critiqued their new methodology. One could spend days sorting through the claims and counterclaims. Ultimately, for those without medical expertise or statistical training, deciding whom to trust is as much a question of philosophy as of data, because the debate isn?t just about numbers. It?s also a metaphysical argument about the nature of childbirth.

?This is one of the most wonderful experiences in your life,? says Daviss, describing the concept of ?orgasmic birth,? which is popular in parts of the home-birth community. ?This is one of the times when you are going to be going into a labyrinth of ecstasy. You may not have an ******, but certainly you?re going to have to work and do something that is altogether internal and external at the same time and universally connects you with women around the world and with your family ... Somehow we need, in our culture, to help young women to understand that.?

Obstetricians tend to be less romantic about childbirth. ?Reproduction is very dysfunctional,? says Martha Reilly, chief of Women's and Children's Services at McKenzie-Willamette Medical Center near Eugene, Ore., a place where home birth is particularly popular. Her hospital often receives home-birth transfers, and she says every OB there has treated a woman rushed in with a dead or severely injured baby. ?The death rate that we?re looking at, in terms of preventable deaths, it?s outrageous,? she says. ?And we have no idea how many babies are being harmed. Forget death?how about brain damage? We don?t know. Nobody?s keeping the data. All we know is what we see coming in.?

Parents who share the home-birth movement?s ideology may have no problem discounting voices like Reilly?s. After all, people take lots of calculated chances during pregnancy. The danger of a late miscarriage from amniocentesis, a prenatal test for genetic defects, is as high as one in 200, but many women opt for it anyway, with their doctor?s support. There are small but real hazards involved in C-sections and other procedures that women often feel pushed into in hospitals.

The problem is that as home birth becomes more popular, it?s attracting people who don?t fully understand the philosophy behind it and don?t realize that not all midwives accept standard medical protocols. When things go wrong, they feel duped and misled.

For Josh Jones and Tweeny Kau, a Santa Monica couple in their 30s, the journey toward home birth began when they saw The Business of Being Born, the 2007 film that has done an enormous amount to popularize contemporary midwifery. The movie is part expos? of the failings of modern obstetrics?particularly its overreliance on C-sections and other interventions?and part glowing look at the rapturous possibilities of natural birth at home. ?That just sort of put it on the radar for us,? says Jones. ?Oh, people do this and they?re fine. It?s as good an option as a hospital.?

Jones and Kau are in no way anti-science. He?s a cofounder of the Web hosting company Dream Host, and she has a Ph.D. in biology from Harvard, though she left the field to open a flower business. For them, home birth seemed like a luxury, a way to bring their baby into the world in a comfortable, calm environment. Jones compared it to choosing Whole Foods instead of Safeway, something rich people do that may or may not be better but is certainly no worse. Should something go wrong, they figured, they lived just 10 blocks from Santa Monica UCLA Medical Center, one of the best hospitals in Los Angeles. They found two midwives, both licensed by the state of California.

To be extra careful, Jones and Kau visited an OB practice several times during the pregnancy. At an early appointment, Kau tested positive for Group B Strep, a bacteria present in about a quarter of women. She took a course of antibiotics, and was to be retested later in her pregnancy. The midwives gave them a handout that ?in retrospect was just terrible,? says Jones. ?It had about a paragraph with real facts from the CDC, and then three and a half pages on the risk of antibiotics.? They suggested that Kau stave off the bacteria by putting a garlic clove in her vagina every night, which she did.

When Kau went into labor early at 36 weeks and 5 days, neither she nor her midwives had the results of her latest Group B Strep test. In the hospital, she would have automatically been given an antibiotic IV. But when one of the midwives arrived to perform the delivery, she didn?t bring it up, Jones says. It never occurred to Kau and Jones to ask.

Their son, Wren, was born on March 9, 2010, shortly after noon. He seemed healthy, and even began breastfeeding without difficulty. The midwife and her assistant cleaned up, and after three hours, they left. With every breath, Wren made a cooing noise, but Jones looked online and saw that lots of newborns make funny sounds. He thought it was cute; he even made an audio recording of it. He didn?t realize that it was because his son was struggling for oxygen.

But that evening, Wren stopped breathing. They called 911; the EMTs were there in three minutes. In the hospital, though, Jones and Kau learned that oxygen deprivation had left him brain dead, and so, as they held his hand, they let the doctors pull the plug. After an autopsy, the couple learned that Wren had died from pneumonia due to a Group B Strep infection contracted during delivery.

As they investigated what happened, they also learned more about how midwives are trained. They discovered that there are two categories of licensed midwives in the United States. Only one kind requires formal medical education. They had the other kind.

Certified nurse midwives, or CNMs, are, as their title implies, nurses, and many of them work in hospitals. They have the same sort of training as midwives in countries like the Netherlands, where a third of babies are delivered at home. It?s difficult to find a CNM who does home birth in the United States, though, because liability insurance usually doesn?t allow it.

Instead, the caregivers who preside over home births are typically CPMs, or certified professional midwives. They are accredited by a national midwifery organization, the North American Registry of Midwives. To qualify, an applicant must have at least a high school diploma, followed by either midwifery school or an apprenticeship under another midwife. Then they have to pass a 350-question multiple-choice exam. Twenty-seven states license CPMs to practice.

Jones and Kau?s midwives, who declined to comment on the record for this story, were CPMs. Jones and Kau thought of suing them, but lawyers weren?t interested because, like most home-birth midwives, they don?t carry liability insurance. ?I do feel like they shouldn?t be able to be licensed,? Jones says of CPMs. ?I?m scared that more states are allowing the licensing. On the one hand, people argue that in states where they don?t have licensing people just do it anyway, and they just do it illegally, and it?s almost worse. But the downside [of licensing] is that it just adds legitimacy to the whole thing.?

Right now, a national campaign, the Big Push for Midwives, is trying to expand licensing of CPMs nationwide. ?There are about a dozen states with active legislation this year,? says Katie Prown, the Big Push?s campaign manager. Among them are Michigan, Indiana, and Iowa. Some states allow licensed midwives to be reimbursed by Medicaid, and because a home birth usually costs significantly less than a hospital birth, it saves the government money. That?s one reason that, in many states, the pro-midwife coalition has easily garnered bipartisan support. Indeed, the right-wing American Legislative Exchange Council, or ALEC, has endorsed legislation for licensing CPMs put forward by midwives? groups.

Prown, a former professor of English and women?s studies at William and Mary College, sees licensing midwives as the solution to the problem of unqualified providers. When she had her first home birth in Virginia in 1992, midwifery was still illegal in that state, and finding a midwife to deliver her baby at home meant navigating a secretive underground market. She was determined not to give birth in a hospital, though, because her obstetrician, like many others at the time, almost always performed episiotomies?surgical incisions between the vagina and the anus?on first-time mothers. The procedure was thought to prevent vaginal tearing, but Prown, then working on her dissertation, started reading about it in the library and found little scientific basis for its routine use. (The medical consensus has since caught up with her.)

?For women who want to have a hands-off, low-tech birth, many of us just don?t want to negotiate that in the midst of labor,? she says. Many home-birth advocates are concerned about what they call the ?cascade of interventions,? in which one procedure leads inexorably to another, often culminating in a C-section. A third of all births in this country are via C-section, a rate far higher than that in most other developing nations. (According to the World Health Organization, C-section rates shouldn?t go above 15 percent.) Experts debate why so many laboring women end up in the operating room. Some cite elevated rates of obesity and rising maternal age, which both increase the C-section risk. But it seems clear that at least some of the increase is due to doctors who fear lawsuits, or who simply lack the time or patience to attend to a vaginal birth that?s gone on too long.

?I would be the last person to defend the current medical system,? says Tuteur, who left obstetrics to write and raise her four children. ?The whole culture of medicine has changed, and that?s one of the reasons I no longer practice ? Almost every doctor I know is beside themselves with anguish because they feel they?re not providing good, respectful care. And there is no question that a home-birth midwife is going to be a lot nicer to you than the average obstetrician.?

Empathy, however, is not the same thing as expertise. If nothing else, people who?ve had disastrous experiences with home birth want fuller disclosure of what the CPM credential does and doesn?t entail. ?I want people to understand the difference between medical care and midwifery care,? says Mindy Bizzell. ?If everyone really understood the risks that they were taking, no one would ever do it.?

When Bizzell went into labor on Aug. 3, 2009, she had no idea that her baby was breech?with his feet, rather than his head, pointing down?because, she says, Roloff, her midwife, had warned her against ultrasounds, saying they can cause birth defects. ?I assumed that she would know that,? Bizzell says of the baby?s position. ?I?d been going constantly to her office, where she would palpate my stomach. She told me he was head down.?

The next morning, when Bizzell?s water broke, it was full of blackish meconium, a fetal bowel movement that signals distress. But Bizzell says Roloff didn?t seem alarmed. Basically, every medical doctor would tell you that means this is an emergency,? says Bizzell. ?We didn?t know that. In fact, she told us it was fine.?

Soon Bizzell was dilating rapidly. Only then, she claims, did Roloff check her internally, feel the baby?s bottom, and realize what was happening. State regulations wouldn?t permit her to do a breech delivery, so they drove to a hospital in Astoria, Ore., 45 minutes away. The baby was coming quickly, but Bizzell says Roloff appeared sanguine about the possibility of simply delivering him en route.

Which is almost what happened. Bizzell?s son was partly born on the 4.5-mile bridge over the Columbia River. His head, though, was trapped in her pelvis, and remained there for 15 minutes until they reached the hospital, where a doctor rushed outside and used forceps to remove him while she lay in her car?s back seat. Bizzell was taken into surgery to repair a fourth-degree tear. Her son was resuscitated and then flown to a hospital in Portland, but he died of brain injuries.

Bizzell says she never took legal action against Roloff because she couldn?t stand to relive the whole ordeal. Someone at the hospital where Bizzell?s son was delivered, however, filed an anonymous compliant about Roloff?s behavior with the Washington State Department of Health. Because of the complaint, the health department launched a confidential inquiry into Bizzell?s case.

The records of that inquiry seem to support Bizzell?s story. At one point, the investigator wrote: ?The Respondent?s statements and medical records do not appear to support that the patient was monitored or evaluated by the Respondent during her labor. Additionally, the determination of a breech presentation with the presence of thick meconium was not identified by the Respondent as an emergency.? (The case file includes an angry letter that the doctor who finally delivered Bizzell?s baby sent to Roloff. Noting his work on Indian reservations, in a migrant farm-worker clinic, and in Mali, Peru, and Afghanistan, he wrote, ?I can see no reason to shun modern women?s healthcare by avoiding evidence-based medicine.?)

The investigation into Bizzell?s delivery was ultimately closed without charges being brought, but the health department wrote in a letter to Roloff, ?This decision may be revisited if we receive new information or identify a pattern of similar complaints.? Soon more complaints came?according to the health department, seven have been filed since 2009. Now Roloff is facing disciplinary action in another case in which a client?s baby died. According to the department of health?s official Statement of Charges, the mother?s water broke on Feb. 27, 2010, and she was still laboring on March 1, with a fever and high blood pressure, when she had a seizure. Only then, according to the official state document, did Roloff call 911. Blake Maresh, executive director of the Washington State Health Department?s midwifery program, says she?s currently in settlement discussions with the state over that case.

The number for Roloff?s midwifery practice has been disconnected, and when reached at THC Market, she refused to comment before hanging up the phone. For now, she maintains her license. Her lawyer, Donna Moniz, also declined to talk about Bizzell?s case, except to point out that the investigation into Henry?s death was closed without charges being brought. ?We have terrible things happen sometimes, despite the best care, in hospitals,? Moniz says. ?Birth has its dangers, whenever it occurs.?

Bizzell blames Roloff and the culture of home birth for her son?s death, but she also can?t stop blaming herself. She started a blog, Dear Henry August, about her lost son, and its anguish is lacerating. ?I feel like I killed you,? she wrote a few months after his death. ?I really honestly believed I was doing the right thing for you, I wanted you to come into this world calmly and lovingly, I didn't want any drugs to affect you in anyway and I was prepared to endure any pain to ensure your health and well being. Henry, please forgive me.?

Edited by Blondyy

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I thought I read somewhere that a thousand women died in childbirth last year. I wonder how many of those were homebirths and how many hospital births? That question is partly snarky but partly legit, too. In one sense it is not fair to blame all deaths on hospital staff, for even if the majority of women were delivered of their children by competent midwives the high-risk and emergencies would still be sent to the hospital.

But this brings us back to the original question, sort of: is it safer to deliver naturally at home with a competent midwife, or to deliver a routine pregnancy in a hospital?

I don't know the answer to that for sure, and I don't think there are any hard and fast numbers that prove it one way or the other. However, there are a large percentage of preventable infant and maternal deaths in a supposedly industrialized country, and we are rated 30th out of 31 of those countries. If I had to do it over again I know which way I would go.

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Farah hunny...let it go. That battle will not get anywhere. You are too sweet and don't need to be in that playpen.

If the admins can't or won't handle it...then ignoring it is the only real true thing we have power over. :huggy:

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As I said, people die anywhere and everywhere everyday regardless of the measures they may take. Sometimes people die.

One biased article AGAINST something is not enough to sway my mind or heart at all. I prefer sources that explain the BENEFIT of something.

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Please explain the benefit of having someone deliver your baby who has had no formal medical training?

I could probably feel comfortable with an RN who also sides as a midwife- but the article says that those are hard to find because of insurance/liability issues.

Child birth in itself is dangerous. There are a thousand different things that can go wrong. Yes, people die everyday but that doesn't excuse ignorance. A midwife is NOT a medical professional and should not be acting as if they are.

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But this brings us back to the original question, sort of: is it safer to deliver naturally at home with a competent midwife, or to deliver a routine pregnancy in a hospital?

Without any sort of proof whatsoever, I'd say for a routine/normal birth, safety wise, they're probably about equal.

I chose a hospital myself, but I am high risk (high risk of ME having a complication, not so much the baby). So I wanted to be there.

As far as deaths in childbirth, anecdotally, the last three I read about were in hospitals (two amniotic fluid embolism, don't remember the third). As for homebirths, I have heard more about babies hurt or dead than mothers. But that's all "what I've heard" and I don't even know where to find statistics. Nowhere seems to really track specifics of where birth happened as it relates to maternal death.

From a blog of a "skeptical OB" (very anti-homebirth):

http://www.skepticalob.com/2013/02/statistics.html

She does say several places on her blog, that in most cases of homebirth BABY death, a hospital probably would have been able to save the baby. I'm inclined to think that might be true (though again, for NORMAL births, I think being home is probably just as safe, particularly if you have qualified midwife present who is willing and quick to do hospital transfers if things do get complicated).

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Knowledge is power and you don't only get that in a school desk. There's more to midwifery than you seem to credit. Do you think they jump around a pregnant mother shaking beeds or something like some kinda shaman? They DO know what they're doing.

I'm only disappointed that I was in too much pain to move or even open my eyes, because I would've liked to have caught my son when he came out. Maybe next time.

Blondyy, I'm curious why you don't have kids. You seem grateful that you don't but you have a lot to say about labor and childbirth.

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Knowledge is power and you don't only get that in a school desk. There's more to midwifery than you seem to credit. Do you think they jump around a pregnant mother shaking beeds or something like some kinda shaman? They DO know what they're doing.

I'm only disappointed that I was in too much pain to move or even open my eyes, because I would've liked to have caught my son when he came out. Maybe next time.

Blondyy, I'm curious why you don't have kids. You seem grateful that you don't but you have a lot to say about labor and childbirth.

I'm in the medical field. I see what goes on. I don't care what opinions are on the matter- but the fact is, a hospital is equipped to deal with birthing issues/emergencies, whereas a mid wife, who is not even an RN, is not.

No, I do not have children. I do not have the extra funds to have children nor have I met anyone who I would wish to have children with. I have been careful and responsible in my sexual activities, so thus, I have no children.

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But that's all "what I've heard" and I don't even know where to find statistics. Nowhere seems to really track specifics of where birth happened as it relates to maternal death.

That seems to be a bit of a problem, on both sides, actually, from what I understand. There are places and instances where even hospitals are not required to report maternal deaths ( and it is quite possible I have that wrong...I have to re-read the book from which I gleaned that info) and I would believe there are a LOT of homebirth deaths among the very poor and incompetent birth attendants that might never get reported or even acknowledged publicly. Illegal immigrants come to mind.

When I read "Ina May's Guide to Childbirth" she quoted statistics for her practice/community, and the numbers were amazing. Startling, even. But that was among competent professionals and with exacting record-keeping. They even keep track of how many mothers they refer to a hospital/ob/gyn after being assessed as high-risk.

If I remember right they only had 1 or 2 infant deaths in over 2000 deliveries, and those were children who would not have lived anyway, due to congenital defects. They have NEVER lost a mother.

I guess the point is, there is a wide range of qualifications among midwives, just as there is among ob/gyns, and it behooves every mother to do her homework, know what decisions about birth and aftercare she could potentially face, and know how she would choose if the situation arises.

ETA: thanks again for the link, I will read it; and that reminds me I didn't read the last link you posted. :unsure:

Edited by Greenhaven

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I'm in the medical field. I see what goes on. I don't care what opinions are on the matter- but the fact is, a hospital is equipped to deal with birthing issues/emergencies, whereas a mid wife, who is not even an RN, is not.

No, I do not have children. I do not have the extra funds to have children nor have I met anyone who I would wish to have children with. I have been careful and responsible in my sexual activities, so thus, I have no children.

Gotcha. Nothing wrong with that!

And midwives can be RN's or even former surgeons you know. I've met a couple who retired from hospitals so they could move onto that. Double threat!

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From a blog of a "skeptical OB" (very anti-homebirth):

http://www.skeptical...statistics.html

I read the other blog entry, and really appreciate the other point of view.

I did try to read this second one, but had a hard time deciphering that one. Too....I dunno....technical for me, for lack of a better term.

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Gotcha. Nothing wrong with that!

And midwives can be RN's or even former surgeons you know. I've met a couple who retired from hospitals so they could move onto that. Double threat!

And as I said, I would feel comfortable with having an RN or MD as a mid wife. Although they still would not have access to the medical equipment a hospital does, at least they have the trained eye and knowledge.

Problem with that is, as the article states, they are rare because of insurance issues.

Just like I would not pay a vet assistant to tube my horse with mineral oil, I would not pay a non-medically trained midwife to deliver my baby outside of a hospital setting. The midwife would have had to been licensed as an RN or MD with excellent references.

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I don't have children but have been following this thread with interest. I guess my thoughts are:

I don't view pregnancy as an illness, so I don't think it is necessary to go to a doctor. If you have complications, then of course you should see a doctor.

As long as we are comparing ourselves to cows... I only take my cows to the vet when they are ill. When they are "just" having babies? They do it themselves or I help. I personally think that tubing a horse is different in many aspects than giving birth, but even if we pretend they are similar-- again, the horse is getting tubed because he is ill, and thus I would want a doctor on board.

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I believe that for a normal, low risk situation, home birth is better. The situations described in the article that Blondyy posted are not normal. And those women should have never attempted a home birth.

I personally know 3 women who have had a total of 12 home birth delivery's. No complications for any of them. However when I went into labor at 35 weeks, I went to the ER and delivered in a hospital. The jury is still out whether I will plan a home birth or hospital birth next time around.

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I don't view pregnancy as an illness, so I don't think it is necessary to go to a doctor. If you have complications, then of course you should see a doctor.

I go once a month until I think 30 weeks. Then every 2 weeks and then once a week after I think 36 weeks. With #1 low risk pregnancy everything went well. #2 high risk. My pulse was high at rest I saw a normal ob and a cardiologist who between the 2 got checked more often. Finally the cost out weighted my care. I watched my pulse myself and it mellowed out towards late 2nd term. I've told my on this time about last time. So far my pulse has behaved. I've got mitral valve prolapse. So my pulse is screwy anyways. I know the signs of my pulse being high so I watch myself. My ob asked me if I felt I needed to be treated as high risk this go round. I said no that my pulse has been fine. I do check almost everyday to make sure it's not high.

ETA:

I think, like any animal, good care is vital to have a healthy baby. Drs use regular check ups to ensure the baby's heart is still beating, your gaining weight (which is my issue), your not having issues unknown to you. Blood tests, ultrasounds, make sure your not going into preterm labor. Me personally don't see my visits to the dr as unnecessary. I address concerns issues and ask questions. So for me I find it helpful.

Edited by Appaloosa Luver

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I don't have children but have been following this thread with interest. I guess my thoughts are:

I don't view pregnancy as an illness, so I don't think it is necessary to go to a doctor. If you have complications, then of course you should see a doctor.

As long as we are comparing ourselves to cows... I only take my cows to the vet when they are ill. When they are "just" having babies? They do it themselves or I help. I personally think that tubing a horse is different in many aspects than giving birth, but even if we pretend they are similar-- again, the horse is getting tubed because he is ill, and thus I would want a doctor on board.

That's like trying to say that a pregnant woman shouldn't go to the doctor throughout her pregnancy. I mean, she's not ill, so, why go right?

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