MiSSxZURi

Pregnancy/labor/delivery!

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To check on the growth and development of the child. When I bring my daughter for well baby visits they are checking her growth and development also, if there are any problems, it can hopefully be caught early and taken care of. Same with prenatal visits. The difference is the end result is not an illness, nor does it need to be a medical procedure unless there is a need for intervention, it is a perfectly natural event for most women, we are built to carry a baby and give birth.

There are hospitals that offer nurse-midwives, who ARE trained medical professionals BTW, and special suites for a more natural, lower stress environment, but still within or very near the hospital in case problems arise, there would be easy transfer. This would be my choice, I would never feel comfortable at a home birth, I want the security of the hospital, but low stress, non medical feel of a midwife. But that is my personal decision. I didn't do as much research as I should have and as a result I allowed nurses and doctors to push me into doing things, had I been better educated about my options I would not have done half the things that were done, now I know better, and have better resources, will always question the doctor/nurse instead of just handing all control over.

Anyway...

New study shows Midwife-led birth centers improve outcomes and lower health care costs. Less likely to have unnecessary cesarean, 6% vs 25% in hospital among similarly low risk patients.

http://www.midwife.org/NBCSII

That article is from the end of January 2013.

Edited by Smokum

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Thanks Smoke, that's what I meant. Delivery is not an illness and should not be a medical procedure until it is necessary. I do think doctor's should be on board for the growth and development of the baby.

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if you dont go to a doctor during your pregnancy, chances are that you will never even know you are high risk until it is too late, like the women in Blondys post.

when i carried Arora, i had many physical issues, but the affected ME and not the baby, so i didnt worry or stress. i kept working as much as i could manage and so on.

then at a rutine doctors visit, they discovered that my blood pressure was 196/94. Arora was not getting nurishment and the placenta was dying (discovered in monitor and ultrasound) i was immediately put on medications and bed rest.

i felt fine through it all. i hardly even had a headace. i was retaining water, but i had no eggwhite in my urine, so there was NO other indication that something was wrong, apart from the blood pressure and that was only checked at those rutine visits to the doctor.

this time i am on "extra survailance" i have an appointement with either my doctor or my midwife once pr week. i have been pulled from work (i also have bleedings this time.) i have extra ultrasounds and i go to the clinic everytime i feel a slight head ace to have my bp taken. (pre natal care is completely free here, so it doesnt cost me anything exept alot of time spent in waiting rooms ;-.) )

thankfully this little guy so far is growing at a rather fast rate (looks like he might get huge... another reason to keep up with doctors visits... i want to be prepared if he turns out to be huge (SO s family often have huge baby boys) incase it will be necessary to induce me early or have a c section. (cross everything i have white hoping that that will not be necessary)

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I don't view pregnancy as an illness, so I don't think it is necessary to go to a doctor. If you have complications, then of course you should see a doctor.

Don't think any one ever viewed pregnancy an illness... Reason one goes to a doctor for routine checkups is for the baby's sake, they are at risk ..... anything can happen. they can stop growing, not fully develop.ect... As in my case I could have lost mysecond baby anytime.... i was 4 months when it was discovered by an ultra sound...... All was fine until then.. I was immediately put on bed rest, not knowing if was able to carry her to full term... She could have born very premature.... no chance of surviving. I was lucky able to carry her within two weeks of full term...I still had complications , as well, plus complications during birth.... As in another case i know of personally, the woman was pregnant, found out she was carryign twins, was very happy. both boys.... until her 6 month, one twin died.....

Now days a woman can chose who to go to during her pregnancy...

I believe most midwives also can check on the baby's devlopment throughout the pregnancy ,home births are more common, many midwives do have to go through training. It's not like the old west days .,again one should do their research...

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I had an "elective" c-section. I have Crohns Disease, and a jpouch. When I found out I was pregnant, I read that labor could damage my pouch, resulting in having a colostomy bag.

Neither my surgeon or my ob were the ones who insisted on it. I brought it up. They said, ok. There was no argument from them, but it wasn't something they insisted on. They left it to me.

I'm sure people could argue with me, and say I took the easy way out, but it's between me and my medical team.

Which is why I don't judge anyone for their decisions. That's between them and their medical professional.

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I had an "elective" c-section. I have Crohns Disease, and a jpouch. When I found out I was pregnant, I read that labor could damage my pouch, resulting in having a colostomy bag.

Neither my surgeon or my ob were the ones who insisted on it. I brought it up. They said, ok. There was no argument from them, but it wasn't something they insisted on. They left it to me.

I'm sure people could argue with me, and say I took the easy way out, but it's between me and my medical team.

Which is why I don't judge anyone for their decisions. That's between them and their medical professional.

Your decision is a great example of a well-thought-out decision made for medical reasons and not because it was the "easy way out" or a matter of convenience for you or your doctor.

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Your decision is a great example of a well-thought-out decision made for medical reasons and not because it was the "easy way out" or a matter of convenience for you or your doctor.

Who cares if someone chooses to have a c section, even just for convenience for themselves?

It really isn't anyone else's business what someone does.

I've said it before and ill say it again. If everyone worried about themselves, rather than what everyone else is doing that they do not like, the world would be a better place.

We can support abortion but we cannot support allowing a woman to choose if she wants a c section as a convenience? Get freakin real.

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Who cares if someone chooses to have a c section, even just for convenience for themselves?

It really isn't anyone else's business what someone does.

We can support abortion but we cannot support allowing a woman to choose if she wants a c section as a convenience? Get freakin real.

i have never read anywhere in this and other related threads that anybody is "supporting abortion". i have often read posts supporting a woman's right to make choices and being the only one with the authority over her own body, which is all that i've read here so far. what i've understood as being expressed here is objecting to delivery decisions being made with complete disregard to that right.

(correct me if i'm wrong ladies who have actually HAD children).

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Thank you nick. On another note, do you or Skjotta happen to know European statistics related to this topic? It seems from what I've heard European women embrace natural birth and breastfeeding much more so than American women, the benefits of doing things natural that benefit the child without regard to what it does to ones body. Ie elective cesarean to save the look of your vagina, even if it benefits both child and mother, or choosing not to breastfeed for nothing more than not wanting saggy bewbs, benefits to both very strongly outweigh the other options, but are disregarded for vanity.

There seems to be a negative stigma about natural birth and breastfeeding here, and not so much in Europe. Is America full of selfish prudes? Or what has caused such a huge difference? Is there a difference with how doctors view labor and delivery there vs here?

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People are, in a way, selfish. It's just the way things are.

I would not breast feed either. Nor would I want a baby coming through my vag and making it look like an explosion went off up inside there. But I have also chosen not to have children. If I did, I still would choose a c section.

Nick, your argument holds no water. So it's ok to say that a woman has a right to choose whether to kill off their baby or not, but then in the same sentence, down those who choose c sections and not to breast feed because they like the way thee body looks?

In one instance- a baby does. In a other- they are just born and fed with a different method. The second seems much more preferred.

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skojjta is a better source of info than i, since i have never given birth, but in my circle of friends who have say that doctors in germany don't like interfering. to the extent that one french friend with her first cast around for an ob/gyn who WOULD give her the epidural :D .

also being a midwife here is a good career. insurance pays for it, and from what i've heard there is a pretty lengthy educational process leading up to the occasion involving BOTH mom and dad ( i know this, because i watched our tenants taking copious notes before the first), and is widely accepted and embraced. i should add, however, that an attending physician escorts the entire process, is kept apprised and on call should something go awry.

we had a kid enter the world in our house!! no complications and NO MUSS; NO FUSS! i was amazed.

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People are, in a way, selfish. It's just the way things are.

I would not breast feed either. Nor would I want a baby coming through my vag and making it look like an explosion went off up inside there. But I have also chosen not to have children. If I did, I still would choose a c section.

Nick, your argument holds no water. So it's ok to say that a woman has a right to choose whether to kill off their baby or not, but then in the same sentence, down those who choose c sections and not to breast feed because they like the way thee body looks?

In one instance- a baby does. In a other- they are just born and fed with a different method. The second seems much more preferred.

say what? i have no opinion on breast feeding, but there's a BIG HUGE REASON foals need that first dose of mama's milk, and nor do have i an opinion on your vagina. this is about a woman's right to determine how her kid comes into the world and decisions that are made concerning her health and her body.

mais, bien sur, you want to make this all about you. AGAIN. (mais bien sur means "but of course" in french, because i'm pretty sure based on your posts you aren't even aware of the most of remedial french. you know. the language of diplomacy, olympics, etc.)

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say what? i have no opinion on breast feeding, but there's a BIG HUGE REASON foals need that first dose of mama's milk, and nor do have i an opinion on your vagina. this is about a woman's right to determine how her kid comes into the world and decisions that are made concerning her health and her body.

mais, bien sur, you want to make this all about you. AGAIN. (mais bien sur means "but of course" in french, because i'm pretty sure based on your posts you aren't even aware of the most of remedial french. you know. the language of diplomacy, olympics, etc.)

Actually, I took French in high school. But I know, your the know it all around here.

Wasn't making it about me so not sure where you got that. I'm just not understanding the right for a woman to abort but not for the right for a woman NOT to breast feed or get an unneeded c section.

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I didn't see where anyone was trying to take away a woman's rights to a c-section or bottle feeding. Just like abortion,it is a very emotionally-charged topic, but it boils down to be a very personal topic and no one should make that choice for you. I saw far more people angry because their right to NOT having an episiotomy was taken from them.

And as far as a foal needing colostrum vs. human babies being able to be bottle fed-- foals and calves have an epitheliochorial placenta which does not allow the transfer of IgG (or any immunoglobulin, for that matter). Human placentas are hemochorial and do allow the transfer of IgG. Most baby animals must have colostrum to get any immunoglobulins... Humans are a big exception. Dogs and kittens are kind of middle of the road--they certainly benefit from colostrum but will not succumb to FTP without it.

Back to your regularly scheduled broadcasting :-)

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And as far as a foal needing colostrum vs. human babies being able to be bottle fed-- foals and calves have an epitheliochorial placenta which does not allow the transfer of IgG (or any immunoglobulin, for that matter). Human placentas are hemochorial and do allow the transfer of IgG. Most baby animals must have colostrum to get any immunoglobulins... Humans are a big exception. Dogs and kittens are kind of middle of the road--they certainly benefit from colostrum but will not succumb to FTP without it.

Spoken like someone who actually knows what they are talking about. Thank you for that, it was highly educational for me.

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That's like trying to say that a pregnant woman shouldn't go to the doctor throughout her pregnancy. I mean, she's not ill, so, why go right?

Exactly! Why would you need a doctor to invade your pelvis and take your blood and prod your amniotic sac just to tell you you have a healthy pregnancy? Yeah, no. Go if issues arise.

Midwives will help you track progress too. They keep track of your weight, test your urine as well and keep track of your iron and all that. They schedule you somewhere for ultrasounds. They help you secure a back up plan, help you check out local hospitals for that backup plan and help check out the closest ER. They leave themselves 100% open and available to you and all your questions and concerns. They help TEACH you what is going on on the inside and how to cut the cord and how to either breast feed or PUMP your breastmilk and colostrum. They will maybe do 1-2 pelvic exams the whole time and that's only if you're comfortable with it. They are just not INVASIVE. They're HELPFUL. They're reasonable, understanding and they *KNOW* their shizz.

Edited by MiSSxZURi

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Exactly! Why would you need a doctor to invade your pelvis and take your blood and prod your amniotic sac just to tell you you have a healthy pregnancy? Yeah, no. Go if issues arise.

Are you being sarcastic or serious? I can't tell.

After the pregnancy has been determined healthy and problem-free I feel multiple visits are excessive but the woman and medical professional have to have a baseline of exam/tests in order to make that determination.

Aren't many pregnancy/fetus issues undetectable except through exam/tests?

How would a woman learn of those "silent issues" unless they were examined and tested?

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Are you being sarcastic or serious? I can't tell.

After the pregnancy has been determined healthy and problem-free I feel multiple visits are excessive but the woman and medical professional have to have a baseline of exam/tests in order to make that determination.

Aren't many pregnancy/fetus issues undetectable except through exam/tests?

How would a woman learn of those "silent issues" unless they were examined and tested?

Well for the regular exams all an ob does is check the heartbeat and measure you. There are several points where they schedule you for ultrasounds. Midwives can (and do) exactly the same thing. A good friend of mine is finishing up a pregnancy now that has been handled exclusively by a midwife. She went for ultrasounds at the correct times which caught the issues with her pregnancy, just as they would have at the doctor. Early on they found some major issues, just as they would have if they'd gone to the regular OB. It all got taken care of exactly the same way. The midwive is licensed and has medical training, and has all the same equipment for basic fetal health/pregnancy monitering checkups as the OB would.

About the only difference is during delivery, the midwife could not perform a caesarean if needed. But all the prenatal care is handled pretty much identically, though a little less invasively and in a more comfortable environment, from a practitioner who is much more supportive of natural/non-intervention birth and such.

Edited by goldentoes

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Are you being sarcastic or serious? I can't tell.

After the pregnancy has been determined healthy and problem-free I feel multiple visits are excessive but the woman and medical professional have to have a baseline of exam/tests in order to make that determination.

Aren't many pregnancy/fetus issues undetectable except through exam/tests?

How would a woman learn of those "silent issues" unless they were examined and tested?

I'm totally serious. Think about the amniotic test for example. What would knowing I have 'tainted' fluid do for me? Tell me if I'm going to have a higher percentage risk of my baby having such and such disease? Okay then. If they have it they have it, if they don't they don't, I'm having my baby either way.

Midwives don't literally just sit and watch pregnancies. Their goal is healthy mom and baby moreso than a hospital in great opinion, so they have ways of detecting and addressing things that could come up in a pregnancy. They want to find out if things are wrong, but they promote positivity in a way you'd just never see in a hospital, where they're constantly poking around your body like you could explode at any minute.

ETA: Exactly as stated above. Midwives handle prenatal care.

Edited by MiSSxZURi

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Didn't have time to read all this, as I just had my son four weeks ago and hes now napping I really should get to the laundry, anyway...since this just happened to me its very fresh in my mind

I went in for my 39 week apt. Urine sample showed alot of protein in my urine, my blood pressure was up and bloodwork showed my liver was having some issues so we decided to induce, I was put on a pitocin iv....my water broke shortly after and I thought oh boy, this will be fast.....not so much, after a few hours of hard constant contractions due to the pitocin I requested the epi......loved it, it let me get some rest......finally 18 hours after my water broke they said I could push, I pushed for thirty minutes, but I knew somehow the baby wasn't going to come out that way, of course no one believed me, kept encouraging me to push, finally after two hours the nurse kept saying how much the baby was molding but not moving, the dr. came in and asked if I wanted to keep pushing or do the section....I said get this baby out of me now......so we went in for the section, I was awake and got to hold my baby as soon as he was born, his poor head was so coned from being shoved inti my pelvis, the dr. then said I have a very shallow pelvis and the baby wouldn't have fit out, I would've been one of the woman back in the day that died during child birth.....I also had a chest cold so not only did I have my stomach cut open I was coughing like crazy, you know what? I was up walking the next day, I took only the motrin they had for me and by day four was ready to get home, only so much space to walk at the hospital.....I got home and was very quickly back to my normal activities....now, just four weeks after my surgery I am 100% back to normal and have no residual effects from the surgery and my sons head went back to normal shape and is perfectly healthy and growing like a weed........

Now was it just me being lazy not wanting to push? Or was it intuition that told me the baby wasn't going to fit out? I couldve laid there for hours pushing and that baby wouldn't have come out....... I just knew......

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That is different. I have

Didn't have time to read all this, as I just had my son four weeks ago and hes now napping I really should get to the laundry, anyway...since this just happened to me its very fresh in my mind

I went in for my 39 week apt. Urine sample showed alot of protein in my urine, my blood pressure was up and bloodwork showed my liver was having some issues so we decided to induce, I was put on a pitocin iv....my water broke shortly after and I thought oh boy, this will be fast.....not so much, after a few hours of hard constant contractions due to the pitocin I requested the epi......loved it, it let me get some rest......finally 18 hours after my water broke they said I could push, I pushed for thirty minutes, but I knew somehow the baby wasn't going to come out that way, of course no one believed me, kept encouraging me to push, finally after two hours the nurse kept saying how much the baby was molding but not moving, the dr. came in and asked if I wanted to keep pushing or do the section....I said get this baby out of me now......so we went in for the section, I was awake and got to hold my baby as soon as he was born, his poor head was so coned from being shoved inti my pelvis, the dr. then said I have a very shallow pelvis and the baby wouldn't have fit out, I would've been one of the woman back in the day that died during child birth.....I also had a chest cold so not only did I have my stomach cut open I was coughing like crazy, you know what? I was up walking the next day, I took only the motrin they had for me and by day four was ready to get home, only so much space to walk at the hospital.....I got home and was very quickly back to my normal activities....now, just four weeks after my surgery I am 100% back to normal and have no residual effects from the surgery and my sons head went back to normal shape and is perfectly healthy and growing like a weed........

Now was it just me being lazy not wanting to push? Or was it intuition that told me the baby wasn't going to fit out? I couldve laid there for hours pushing and that baby wouldn't have come out....... I just knew......

Not lazy. Intiuitive and strong. See it works both ways - your nurses and doctors didn't even listen to you! That's bad no matter what you're trying to fight for. All we can do is what's best for us and our kids, that's all anyone asks.

And based on stats alone you are VERY lucky to have such a great recovery!! That's awesome!

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Personally, none of this works for me. Here's my first hand experience with some of it.

I stipulated in my actual admittance contract, in writing, SIGNED, when I went into labor with my daughter that I refused all vaccinations, vitamin K, eye goop, no episiotomy, no vaccum, no bath, ETC ETC. I had solid, unwavering reasons for all of these decisions and I discussed this VERY plainly with my OB and not only did they treat my pregnancy like a disease in need of serious management, they doused me with pitocin, cut me (I didn't feel or notice it at all, my [now ex] husband told me about it, and then of course I noticed it later) AND used a vaccuum on my baby, resulting in a lovely head gash that lead me to getting her the Vit K shot even though I didn't even want it. I didn't see or notice this either. Since I was doped up I didn't feel anything, and the nurses hovering around me were nagging me to hold my breath for a ten count and if I got so stressed out they shoved oxygen on my face. (That made it even worse, also.) My OB actually made me feel bad about the way I was "not pushing good enough" and it turned out she was getting stuck because of my "curved pelvis bone." Hmm... Perhaps this is why gravity teaches us that birthing was not meant to be done on ones back? Eventually she started flat out threatening me with a c-section. Needless to say I never went back to her for a follow up, or spoke to her or anyone at that hospital again.

IDK why I went back and re-read the OP but when I did the bolded above jumped out at me.

I too had a horrid experience the first time around. But I'm wondering if by that bit I quoted that you were actually in distress and so was the baby which is why they went against your wishes and did what they felt was best. I labored HARD for 19 hours and never once did they try and give me oxygen. I've never even heard of the mother getting oxygen unless the baby was in distress.

If I were you (and I did exactly this) I would go to the hospital where you delivered the first time around and get EVERY bit of notes from your L/D and take them with you to your midwife. The bolded statement about about a curved pelvis.. that would have me concerned about having the same problems again during delivery number two.

In my case.. my pelvis was to narrow to spit out kids with huge heads. My first dr never told me this after delivery and my OB I used for #2 also didn't tell me this. Which is why I got another opinion. After that OB told me my chances of having my baby naturally was 15% I decided that all that labor/pain ect was not worth it for me or baby.

You can learn a lot from reviewing the notes from your L/D to proceed with the next time. If you truly have a curved pelvis, which I would imagine a quick x-ray would show.. and yes I know x-rays aren't great for the fetus. But the minute bit if radiation the fetus would be exposed to for a quick shot to see if it's true. There fore saving you and baby from the same trauma again would be worth it in my book. If you get one and find that the Dr truly was a twit and it's not true, the you can proceed with a home/midwife birth.

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IA, if the doc had been any good, after 9 months of poking and prodding, he should have KNOWN about the pelvis issue already.

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My dr. didn't do any pelvic exams until the last month and then its just to check for dilation and effacement......and to be honest my body is deceiving, I would appear to have child bearing hips, but apparently I just have a big a$$ lol!

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IDK why I went back and re-read the OP but when I did the bolded above jumped out at me.

I too had a horrid experience the first time around. But I'm wondering if by that bit I quoted that you were actually in distress and so was the baby which is why they went against your wishes and did what they felt was best. I labored HARD for 19 hours and never once did they try and give me oxygen. I've never even heard of the mother getting oxygen unless the baby was in distress.

If I were you (and I did exactly this) I would go to the hospital where you delivered the first time around and get EVERY bit of notes from your L/D and take them with you to your midwife. The bolded statement about about a curved pelvis.. that would have me concerned about having the same problems again during delivery number two.

In my case.. my pelvis was to narrow to spit out kids with huge heads. My first dr never told me this after delivery and my OB I used for #2 also didn't tell me this. Which is why I got another opinion. After that OB told me my chances of having my baby naturally was 15% I decided that all that labor/pain ect was not worth it for me or baby.

You can learn a lot from reviewing the notes from your L/D to proceed with the next time. If you truly have a curved pelvis, which I would imagine a quick x-ray would show.. and yes I know x-rays aren't great for the fetus. But the minute bit if radiation the fetus would be exposed to for a quick shot to see if it's true. There fore saving you and baby from the same trauma again would be worth it in my book. If you get one and find that the Dr truly was a twit and it's not true, the you can proceed with a home/midwife birth.

Yeah, but I don't know if I think my pelvis is really curved or if they were just covering up the gash on my daughter's head from the vaccuum. I think she got stuck because she was sunnyside up for one thing and laying on my back/folded up at my knees wasn't helping anything. Couple that with the overwhelming pit and intrathecal and you have a disaster. I couldn't push effectively no matter how ya sliced it at that point.

In the end of all this, my daughter did come out with a lovely helping of meconium which isn't great but had things gone how they should've none of that would have happened. I have NO idea why they strapped me with oxygen honestly, it was a pain in the arse! I was too busy freaking out over the strong shoots of air up my nostrils to focus on my pelvic floor, which I couldn't even feel. Had I been allowed to take normal two second breaks between stressful contractions without being literally yelled at to take another ten-count without letting ANY air out in order to push, I wouldn't have 'needed' oxygen. They just didn't help me help myself at all :(

My midwife and said my body is just fine. No hooks or anything out of the ordinary and nothing to peg me as high risk, Thank God. I've never had any other practitioner of any kind (even during that pregnancy) tell me I had anything to look out for.

Edited by MiSSxZURi

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Heidi, of course I was being sarcastic.

The whole thing boils down to, child birth can come with a lot of complications- even in a healthy pregnancy. Why would you not want to be in a facility, where if something DOES go wrong, you can be helped immediately?

It just makes no sense to take that extra risk. If a baby is stuck at home, the baby only has mere minutes (sometimes less) before brain damage or death occurs. Even if you have a well qualified RN at home to help, the RN is not going to have the tools needed to get that baby out in time before serious injury or death occurs.

Just seems like a complete no brainer for me. I understand that people die everyday but if I'm carrying a child, and want that child born alive, I'm gonna do everything in my power to make that happen. Not being in a hospital, with the right tools to do what needs to be done in the event of an emergency, just doesn't seem like a good idea.

Edited by Blondyy

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I've never even heard of the mother getting oxygen unless the baby was in distress.

My L/D with Makayla I was on oxygen and she was not in distress. I was having massive pain but was breathing fine. No clue why I was on oxygen. But I was.

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My L/D with Makayla I was on oxygen and she was not in distress. I was having massive pain but was breathing fine. No clue why I was on oxygen. But I was.

Extra oxygen helps, well is suppose to help, calm you down. In the case of child birth, I don't know but the oxygen tends to have a calming effect. This is why you are told breath deep during meditation/yoga.

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LOL did the opposite on me. It really freaked me out!! It was shoved on and told to breathe normal. Really freaked me out. Scared my husband and daughter too.

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