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nick

Why We Should Pay More For Our Food

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Nick, such a cold reply is disappointing.

Why do I ask you what Okinawans eat when I can Google it myself?

If I Google-Earth I can see Japan's land mass.

All this information is on the net.

First, I was interested, as it seemed to be a subject you cared about and something you knew about.

Next, I thought I was being friendly and was hoping to open further discussion, perhaps one more along the lines of what I thought you might like to talk about.

Finally, you telling me to Google things myself and that all info is on the net .... well, I *know* information is on the internet, just waiting for people to click and read it for themselves.

That isn't the interaction I was looking for, obviously.

What the hello do you think we're doing at this website? What I look for in forums is *interaction with other people* so I can learn about what makes *them* excited and allow their passion to ignite a spark in me (or others), too! Why bother with any question here at HC? In fact, why talk to any person, ever again? Every question a person could possibly have probably has an answer that can be Googled and found on the internet. I assume the people that participate in these forums want interaction and shared ideas with other people, not Google. But I could be wrong.

Edited by Heidi n Q

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More money for food does not mean more quality, healthier, etc speaking of a healthy balanced diet, and not trying to compare a non healthy diet, which might happen to be, a non organic/non free range diet, to a balanced organic diet, BUT a healthy non organic balanced diet to an organic balanced diet., and in that case, the higher food price in not warranted. You can't compare apples to oranges

It has long been known that a diet low in fat, sugar and high in fiber, is a prevenatitive against many diseases, such as diabetis, cancer and heart disease, regardless of where you live

If you wish to use Okinawan diet as an example of producing longevity, I will grant you that their diest is an imporatant part BUT, it is not the only factor

You are speaking of an isolated,population, where environment and genetics might play just as an important part in their longevity, as diet

As an ethnically distinct, isolated popula-

tion of Japan with a very high prevalence of centenarians,
a long life expectancy, and a highly functional elderly pop-
ulation, the Okinawans are an important population for
studies of the genetic and environmental correlates of
exceptional longevity. Further study of this population is
warranted

That also might change, as the radio active accident In Japan, starts to exert its effect, even on this isolated popualtion

Genetics play an equal big part in longevity. My sister in law's family enjoys longevity. Her parents are both still alive at age 95 and 91, in spite of not being active,nor eating an especially good diet

I darn well know that a high fat diet, esp rich in red meat, low in vegetables, fruit and fiber in a major factor in many of the chronic conditions in affluent countries. That's a no brainer

But, that healthy diet has nothing to do with eating organic, and diet is only one factor far as cancer risks in developed countries

The environment plays a huge role, far as the carcinogens that we are exposed to.

Some people have genetic markers that predispose them to some cancers, such a one form of breast cancer, and all the healthy diet in the World will not change that risk, if that woman has the

BRCA1 or BRCA2 genetic breast cancer marker

Therefore, you cannot state that diet alone accounts for an isolated population's longevity, with out taking environmental exposure and genetics into account

This link, shows moderation, in all things is the way to go, and the answer is not to eliminate all red meat from the diet, but to consume it in moderation, along with what else belongs in a healthy diet

http://www.lef.org/magazine/2006/1/awsi/Page-01

Edited by Smilie

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they are not all that isolated. there is an American military base there and has been for a long time. people come and go all the time, and I doubt that the local commissary serves up seaweed, sushi and miso soup in the cafeteria instead of burgers and fries.

I saw a hilarious article in "Stern" magazine (sort of the Forbes of Germany) awhile back stating it was unfair to compare the health of vegetarians with meat eaters, because vegetarians were more likely to exercise regularly and not smoke or drink to excess. (what the....?). gee, wonder who sponsored that oped piece.

let's take another example--garden grove, California. you cannot tell me that community is isolated.

sorry to disappoint you Heidi.

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I was going to write a big post but why? My opinion is backed up somewhere by information on google. Just google topics on energy consumption in transport for the local vs shipped debate, farm bill preference for crops to feed animals vs farm products for direct human consumption. Happy surfing and reading.

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Well, if you read the link I posted, some of the stance that vegetarians are heather , is not really that true

I'm not a Veggen , but don't smoke.

Guess I will need to cut and paste, even though that creates long posts:

Unexpected Findings

Vegetarians suffer fewer heart attacks than meat eaters.24-37 Interestingly, this benefit dissipates as vegetarians age. For instance, one study showed that vegetarians under the age of 65 were 45% less like to suffer a heart attack than were meat eaters. Once vegetarians reached the age of 80, however, their heart attack risk was only 8% lower than that of meat eaters.38

jan2006_awsi_01.jpg

Longevity studies of vegetarians produce conflicting data. Some studies do not show that vegetarians live significantly longer.25,29 Two studies of people who consumed very little meat showed an average life-span increase of 3.6 years.39 A huge study of Seventh Day Adventists who ate little or no meat showed longevity increases of 7.28 years in men and 4.42 years in women.40 These data are confounded by the fact that Seventh Day Adventists follow healthy lifestyles free of tobacco and alcohol.

Studies suggest that the longevity benefits conferred by a vegetarian diet dissipate as humans enter their ninth decade.39 This implies that while vegetarian diets reduce disease risk, restricting one’s diet to only plant foods does not completely protect against the effects of aging.

here is just one site that goes into the genetic research and the link to longevity

http://genomics.senescence.info/longevity/

Also, it is not so simple-just eat an Okinawan diet, and you a re going to live to be 100, as your genetics are entirely different, and you also don't live there

Far as your topic heading, you would actually be paying less, following a similar diet, because it is affluent societies that are able to afford high meat diets, and thus thus have the link to obesity and other degenerative conditions that diet entails. It is also a known fact, that affluence, often goes hand in hand with a higher likely hood of heavy social drinking, and other risk factors

Then there is this info on a high meat diet, by some native people, and their low level of disease related to such a diet-at least deserving some consideration and additional research.

(you will have to actually click on the link and read the info

http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/all-meat-diets/

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When one presents a point of view in an online forum debate, one needs to be willing to do the legwork to back that up. Saying, "Just Google it." is lazy debating. And got someone else banned on this forum, didn't it? Hilariously so. I think for asking someone to back up their statement, I mean. Not that I'm saying that it's a good reason to ban someone, just happened to remember that and the backlash that followed. I'm going offtopic.

The forum debates on here will continue to die out if we are not willing to do the above, which of course, is why I generally don't bother anymore, because I am rather lazy.

Anyhow, the reason I came to post, ran across this today.

http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/01/25/why-quinoa-could-disappear-completely?cmpid=organic-share-facebook

Health food lovers—especially vegans and vegetarians—go nuts for the South American grain-like seed. And with good reason: Quinoa is one of the most nutrient-dense foods on the planet, packed with dietary fiber, vitamins E and B2 and iron, and low in fat. It might be the closest thing we have to a “perfect food.”

Which made a story about quinoa and those who grow it, printed earlier this month in The Guardian, unpalatable for many. Global demand (driven mostly by Western countries) has reached such highs that Bolivia, the largest producer of quinoa, now exports nearly all of the staple crop. The increasingly globalized market has driven the domestic price of the quinoa so high that the people who grow it can't afford to eat it. As a result, Andean farmers and their families face chronic malnutrition.

Unfortunately there is a dark side to everything these days. It's near impossible to don a Jedi cloak and walk the path of light only.

Edited by Epona142

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Quinoa and other 'super foods'

Here is the info on Quinoa

not a bad food, but also another example of hype, by those that buy into these 'super foods

I will just post the Quinoa info, and you can go tot he link to see the general mind set behind the promotion of any new super food, the true nutritious analysis and the hype

Quinoa

Quinoa, pronounced keen-wa, has been dubbed a supergrain, touted for its high protein, fiber and iron content. And compared to a grain like white rice, quinoa is higher in these nutrients.

But along with 8 grams of protein, 5 grams of fiber, and 15 percent of the daily value for iron, quinoa also packs in 220 calories and nearly 40 grams of carbs per cup (about the same as white pasta).

A cup of black beans, in comparison, has the same calorie content, but double the protein and three times the fiber of quinoa, with about 30 percent more iron. And a cup of cooked spinach has more than twice as much iron as quinoa, for a mere 40 calories.

Plain Greek yogurt gives us 23 grams of protein per 140-calorie cup, and a three-ounce serving of fish has 21 grams of protein for 100-120 calories — far better ratios of protein to calories than quinoa’s eight grams of protein per 220 calories.

So for those who aren’t concerned about carbs or calories, quinoa is perfectly fine. But if you’re looking to use quinoa as a protein substitute in place of lean meat, poultry or seafood, be aware that it’s a calorie-dense protein alternative, and there are plenty of other non-meat options with more protein, fiber and iron, for far fewer calories.

http://www.nola.com/health/index.ssf/2012/08/5_superfoods_that_dont_live_up.html

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If one did a paper for a class like some people here present their material (sometimes me included, although the majority of my information is anecdotal from experts in the field) without providing the cite/site information data, they'd get a big, fat F for the paper. School is preparation for real life. So, if you want to make an assertion, you'd better be ready to back that assertion up with verifiable cites.

BTW, my data will take a few months to provide. It's the dead of winter and we won't see the evidence of the organic and inorganic circles side by side until at least late April. :)

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Well what ever happened to the pig fat diet? Screw the Orientals on claiming they own the longevity game... You cook everything you eat with bacon fat..bacon you make. ( I have the family recipe) all our people poured it on everything they ate and live into their 90's plus. They also ate lots of beans and fresh fruit.. problem today is hormones in the meat proteins we eat and too much processed foods. People that don't grow their own..or eat their own are subject to unhealthy products entering their bodies. I make most of our food and we don't eat processed at all. I can things up. I smoke things like meat and jerky it out.

It also has to do with genetics and how those genetics break down things.. you either have it or don't... usually if your under 40 and have medicine controlling your system, you don't have the genetics to carry you into your 90's.

AD

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Less to do with genetics than lifestyle.Sitting at a desk, or in front of the telly as opposed to getting outdoors and keeping up with some hard work. Few cut their own wood, or grow all their own food any more.

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Less to do with genetics than lifestyle.Sitting at a desk, or in front of the telly as opposed to getting outdoors and keeping up with some hard work. Few cut their own wood, or grow all their own food any more.

I agree that life style-ie exercise, plays a major role .

How many kids now walk anywhere, or do manual labor growing up?

Went to a meeting where lobbyist from the ATV crowd were trying to have access to more land that has been declared 'wilderness', and where you either walk or ride,now, opened for their use .

One indignant father loudly proclaimed that his kid has every right to enjoy that wilderness, thus should be able to ride a quad there.

Well, before we had horses, we walked., but that entire concept is foreign to most children today

Hormones are not added to all commercial meat-let's be fair , although I do agree that many people are not selective enough when buying processed food, as to additives. You do need to read labels

There are also people on either end of the Bell curve- people that for instance never smoke, and yet get lung cancer, and at the other end of that Bell curve, are people that smoke heavily and never develop lung cancer.. That is why that wide average area of that bell curve is more relevant to most people and therefore, general data.

For instance, as I mentioned, home on the farm, growing up, we grew all our own produce and meat. never used hormones or antibiotics (step dad used Whiskey, when a cow got pneumonia )

Certainly got all the exercise in the World, hoeing that tobacco by hand, harvesting hay with horses, forking loose hay onto the wagon, growing sugar beets for the cattle in winter, cleaning chicken coops, stalls , milking cows, cutting the grass with a push mower, totally hand powered, walking to school, etc , etc

My mother grew up on a collective type farm in Germany, hand planting pine trees and herding geese starting, at the tender age of 5

THus, just pointing out that diet does play a strong part,for most people, even when all that meat is home raised, in what would be considered free range/organic, as my mother had severe heart disease already in her forties. being Old German, meat was a big portion of all meals, and that bacon grease was saved to use as sandwich spread. Any drippings from frying meat was used as gravy Vegetables were usually in a creamy sauce I know that the diet was a major factor in her atherosclerosis and eventual heart attack, at the present age I now am.

On the other hand, there are my sister in laws parents, neither very active, eating just whatever they want to, and both are in their nineties.

Neither , living in town, ever raised their own meat, or gardened much, far as that goes- the other end of that Bell curve!

genetics, diet, lifestyle all play a part in a healthy life and longevity.

Edited by Smilie

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far as the part that genetics play in longevity, that is a relatively new field of study, with one genetic marker found in the population that Nick likes to refer to-the Okinawans. This does not mean that diet is not important, but rather to show why longevity often occurs in cluster of people, that share some common genetics

How much of human longevity is due to genes? Estimates of the heritability of human lifespan vary from 10-50% with the most common finding being that about a third of human lifespan may be heritable. Phenotypes that suggest slower aging, such as survival to 90+ years, may have an even stronger genetic basis, which explains why centenarians and near-centenarians tend to cluster in families. But until the discovery of the apolipoprotein E (ApoE) gene, there was little evidence for a single gene effect large enough to impact human longevity. This discovery has been replicated in many populations, suggests that associations with some genes are large.

Studies of long-lived humans, such as American centenarians, have helped identify other promising genetic loci for longevity and healthy aging. However, these studies are often limited in scope due to small sample sizes, genetic admixture, and inappropriate selection of controls. Some success has been achieved through use of genetically homogeneous populations with smaller gene pools.

Our research group was the first to identify so called "human longevity genes" using centenarians as a study model when we published a study showing that Okinawan centenarians have HLA (human leukocyte antigen) genetic polymorphisms that place them at lower risk for inflammatory and autoimmune diseases (see figure below: Takata et al., Lancet 1987).

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My disappointment in the response to my overture is mine alone. Time will tell if I learned anything from the experience. *shrugs*

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they are not all that isolated. there is an American military base there and has been for a long time. people come and go all the time, and I doubt that the local commissary serves up seaweed, sushi and miso soup in the cafeteria instead of burgers and fries.

I saw a hilarious article in "Stern" magazine (sort of the Forbes of Germany) awhile back stating it was unfair to compare the health of vegetarians with meat eaters, because vegetarians were more likely to exercise regularly and not smoke or drink to excess. (what the....?). gee, wonder who sponsored that oped piece.

let's take another example--garden grove, California. you cannot tell me that community is isolated.

sorry to disappoint you Heidi.

Unless they have changed the overseas military commissaries, they do not have cafeterias, they are grocery stores, they do however, have delis and bakeries, so, would not be serving burgers and fries, anyway.

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I stand corrected. I lived in Thailand for five years because my dad worked for USAID. I distinctly remember having grilled cheese sandwiches in the cafeteria with sliced dill pickles for lunch. could have been an annex of the PX.

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There are food courts in many BX's now, not sure how long ago they put those in. Could be that's where you had your sandwich.

Or, yeah, could have been an annex .

Edited by equicrzy

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it's a PX, where you could buy appliances, etc. the commissary was strictly for food. there was no food court--not enough room.

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You're the one who said the commissary had a cafeteria.

I am very familiar with military bases, I have lived on several.

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Then there's the Navex or Exchange, but aside from that the food courts started showing up stateside in the 90's. However, Nick could have eaten in the galley, chow hall, whateveryyouwanttocallit. I've never seen an exchange with a "cafeteria" inside it. Never mind which service hosted it.

As an afterthought, as recently as the early 2000s personnel went off base for burgers and fries. Both the cities of Okinawa and Sasebo had McDonald's franchises in town. They'd positively soak you for a Big Mac Value Meal, but they were there at least from 1987.

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One thing that did surprise me when visiting Germany, was the pet /dog friendly restaurants. I can accept service dogs, but I don't have my dog at home, lying at the kitchen table, and I do know when he was last de-wormed, st that concerns me as much as any food origin. Everything in perspective and your own comfort level

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Germany is more dog friendly than kid friendly. with reason. the dogs are better behaved, no kidding.

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