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Smilie

Organic Food-Part Hype And Marketing?

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One of the take home points from that article:

Of course, consumers aren't the only ones paying big money for organic foods. The other reason Cowen avoids them is their impact on agriculture.

"[Organic farms] are growing less food and often at a higher price," he says. "Who is that good for? Basically no one. If you move to organic farming, yields go down, which matters all the more for poorer countries


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/economist-organic-foods-just-marketing-2012-9#ixzz3PPENSyJ7

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Recently, in the grocery store, I saw some tomatoes that were marked, $5.99.......EACH!!

They looked like okay tomatoes, maybe medium sized, the little stickers on them said, organic.

They looked no different than the much less expensive tomatoes and, I am reasonably sure they tasted no different.

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I have a freezer full of beef that I'm sure us,"natural", it was raised by a young boy as a 4H project, therefore, got no steroids or hormones.

I have bought bags of chicken legs that were so big, they looked like turkey legs, no way should they be that big, naturally.

Also, why does this country have to import chicken?? Is it because, other countries don't have such strict regulations regarding , "additives" ?

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can't answer your chicken question, but my general attitude is that the consumer when looking at food purchases should be discriminating, informed (self) and make decisions according to individual priorities. for the interests of the general community, however, there is no doubt in the minds of agricultural scientists about what mass animal husbandry is doing to the ground water table.

I make our food purchase decisions the same I way I choose a doctor quite frankly. I don't rely on anybody else's opinion--I will follow up on a recommendation but then I do my own research, including asking pointed questions. it's my health in both cases right?

I will say that I can taste the difference between a cut of beef that it is steroid, hormone and antibiotic free and one that is not. my stomach and intestines notice it too. just recently I read an article about one of the largest poultry production firms advertising their chickens as "cage free". an investigative reporter swung by to have a look at one of their subcontractor's facilities and saw that they were indeed cage-free but jammed in so tight in huge barns on wire floors that they could barely move. they sported feather free breasts because of the footing and filth, the stench was overwhelming and there was hardly any light.

the pork industry isn't much better with most of American pigs raised in "gestation cages" where the only thing they can do is lie down. if you want to condone such practices by paying out your hard earned money for the end product it's your call.

from a monetary standpoint, like I said it depends on what your priorites are. I pinch pennies a lot. just not when it comes to what we eat and drink.

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There's priorities in life. Researching where my grocery store got it's apples, oranges, bananas, potatoes, milk, bread, carrots, lettuce, etc. and the farm/orchard/bakery that produced them isn't one of mine. Frankly I have a few other things ranked higher on my priority list.

If you want to see what happens when a country loses it's access to petroleum based fertilizer and fuel for farm machinery take a look at Cuba. They were forced to make the transition years ago. Interesting story.

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If a person was to research everything they put into their grocery cart, how would they have time for anything else? Seems to me, it's a never ending process.

Not saying it doesn't concern me, I do take a closer look at ingredient lists, but, I'm not going to spend half my time researching everything I put into my mouth.

Edited by equicrzy

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As a lab tech, of course I do some research where food comes from. For instance, i won't eat tilapita fish (farmed in filthy tanks ), nor do I buy farmed salmon, as it is very high in fat

At the same time, I don't agonize over the possible mercury content of that wild salmon

I don't agree with some of the zero space in raising any animal, nor the use of prophylactic antibiotics and hormones as an accepted practice in that process , but many people don't have an option, and hopefully as there becomes an increased awareness of animal welfare , with new laws, a mid way point can be reached, that combines efficiency with food production, but not at the risk of the welfare of that animal

I think you have to use your own judgement, as to what you are comfortable with, based on knowledge, and not just blindly buy anything with the label organic or free range applied.

Pigs in Cuba are fed the fruit of the Royal Palm and waste from restaurants I'm sure some of that waste contains animal protein. Many are free range, but I would not eat pork in Cuba

On our acreage, I raised free range chickens for awhile. Came time to de -decapitate them, and stuff them in the freezer, I re -called how mother scalded them, to pluck the feathers. I had never used any chemicals on them. Well, I found that under those feathers lived lots of lice! I could not eat those chickens, so got rid of them

Sometimes, it is better not seeing where that food actually comes from!

We have enviromental laws here, and in fact, part of my son's job to see that they are complied with, including ground water concerns, and extensive livestock opperations

There is a far greater issue with ground water here in Alberta, with fracking for oil!

Yes, I try to eat healthy, but like Equicrzy, try to keep a balance between hype , alert to every morsal I place in my mouth, and true issues, far as food safety. I won't be fear mongered or blindly sold on 'organic' putting blind faith in the application of that label, seduced into paying at times, for that label alone

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oh i'm not "fear mongered" into it, I just know what tastes better to me and what my stomach and digestive tract work best with. or better said, what tastes like crap and doesn't seem to appeal to my system in general.

we don't eat that much meat anymore, but that's where we notice the biggest difference. that and eggs which we buy from our neighbor whose chickens we see running around everyday pecking at the ground. we know what they eat, sometimes it's leftover undressed salad or fruit from our table and the eggs are outstanding both in appearance and taste. i'll never eat an industrial raised egg again--doesn't look or taste like anything.

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Just thought of a funny thing. At one time I bought some fish called basa, I should have researched it! I was too complacent, in this case!

Hubby googled it, and found it was a cat fish, raised in one of the most polluted rivers in the World (Mekong delta)

A few years after the spike in popularity of basa fish, scientists discovered the danger of its consumption. Basa fish are farmed along the Mekong River—one of the most polluted rivers in the world. Large manufacturers planted along this river frequently dump extremely toxic and dangerous chemicals and industrial waste directly into it. In June of 2001, the US Food and Drug Administration imposed increased and more thorough testing on Southeast Asian farm-raised seafood including the basa fish after repeatedly discovering fish contaminated with heavy metals and banned antibiotics.

Needless to say, the rest of it went into the garbage!

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oh i'm not "fear mongered" into it, I just know what tastes better to me and what my stomach and digestive tract work best with. or better said, what tastes like crap and doesn't seem to appeal to my system in general.

we don't eat that much meat anymore, but that's where we notice the biggest difference. that and eggs which we buy from our neighbor whose chickens we see running around everyday pecking at the ground. we know what they eat, sometimes it's leftover undressed salad or fruit from our table and the eggs are outstanding both in appearance and taste. i'll never eat an industrial raised egg again--doesn't look or taste like anything.

Taste can be a developed thing! I grew up eating eggs from our chickens that had the run of the farm yard. After years of buying eggs, when I went back to eating some of the eggs they tasted very strong! Those chickens loved to peck the fly larva out of the horse and cow manure ! Worms were another great delicacy

I won 't touch milk now, having bee forced to drink warm un pasteurized milk straight from the cows, as a child.

Yes, fresh tomatoes sure beat those grown in hot houses.

In other words, I make choices, as to what I can live with, what foods truly have a benefit that are claimed to be organic raised, and which have little benefit, except for the pocket book of those selling it

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Here's a quote from the article linked above.

"In testing levels of pesticides found in organic fruit and vegetables, the FDA found they have significantly less than conventionally grown foods. However, as one blogger recently argued, these pesticide levels are pretty low already."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/economist-organic-foods-just-marketing-2012-9#ixzz3PUuJMYU8

As far as I'm concerned, any pesticide residue is too much. And I'll sure pay more to get less of it.

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How does a person know for sure there isn't a lot of lying going on?

I mean, when money is involved, lots of money, judging by the price you pay to be safer, well, there are unscrupulous people/ industries who don't give a rat's behind about your health, as long as they're raking it in.

If I've learned anything these past, almost 8 years, is, it doesn't matter what the person in front of you is swearing to, it's for sure, that same person will be saying something completely different tomorrow.

Government, big businesses/industries....no difference.

Edited by equicrzy

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LIve in the time frame that we do, in a first World country, and you are exposed to pesticides and other environmental hazzards.

You have to put some faith in FDA establishing safe levels, making sure the food industry conforms to them

Ditto for radiation exposure AnD host of other environmental hazards. If zero pesticides are your goal, better stop eating, as organic foods are not pesticide free, just lower, with both being within Food safety guidelines

that;s the entire point- is the little less level of pesticides in organic foods worth the difference in price? Many people consider organic foods completely pesticide free, and that is not true

Do you use mosquito repellant?

Edited by Smilie

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Many people eat organic because, they think they're giving themselves great health benefits, that's simply not true, that's what they want you to think, so you can justify the higher prices.

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Here is some great inof, busting some organic food myths

The site is not bashing organic foods, not stating that crop rotation,etc ,a ren't agreat benefit, just busting some myths, and myth # 1 is very interesting. I will post the link for the complete read

I think the take home message is, buy organic, if you can afford to, but if not, then recognize what part is hype and how much your health really is linked to buying organic

Okay, here goes, with number one myth

Myth #1: Organic Farms Don’t Use Pesticides

When the Soil Association, a major organic accreditation body in the UK, asked consumers why they buy organic food, 95% of them said their top reason was to avoid pesticides. They, like many people, believe that organic farming involves little to no pesticide use. I hate to burst the bubble, but that’s simply not true. Organic farming, just like other forms of agriculture, still uses pesticides and fungicides to prevent critters from destroying their crops. Confused?

Here is the link:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/2011/07/18/mythbusting-101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/

Perhaps reading about the 'organic pesticides used, and the rest of this article , most here might even agree with the final conclusion:

As far as I’m concerned, the biggest myth when it comes to organic farming is that you have to choose sides. Guess what? You don’t. You can appreciate the upsides of rotating crops and how GMOs might improve output and nutrition. You, the wise and intelligent consumer, don’t have to buy into either side’s propaganda and polarize to one end or another. You can, instead, be somewhere along the spectrum, and encourage both ends to listen up and work together to improve our global food resources and act sustainably.

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Read the above link, Jubal

As someone who has actually farmed, I did wonder how organic farmers prevented their crops from being consumed by bugs. I sure as heck knew, that our fruit in Ontario, from our own trees that were not sprayed, had worm holes-lots of them, and green cabbage worms abounded on our cabbages.

Well, seems organic farmers use organic pesticides, and again, even people aware of this fact, as lulled into the same old, same old, if it is organic/natural it must be better/safer. Not so!

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Organic farmers in the US can't use synthetic pesticides but can use natural ones.

Here's an interesting idea. Kinda the same approach we use with horses.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/10/the-amish-farmer-replacing-pesticides-with-nutrition/380825/

I grew up with the Amish, so will look at your link later

Yes, organic farmers use 'organic pesticides, but did you actually read the info on some of those 'natural pesticides???? They are not harmless!!! That is why I posted that link in the first place-the mis conceptions and 'organic

Guess I will have to cut and paste.

Okay, dokey, first the mission statement:

Here’s the thing: there are a lot of myths out there about organic foods, and a lot of propaganda supporting methods that are rarely understood. It’s like your mother used to say: just because everyone is jumping off a bridge doesn’t mean you should do it, too. Now, before I get yelled at too much, let me state unequivocally that I’m not saying organic farming is bad – far from it. There are some definite upsides and benefits that come from many organic farming methods. For example, the efforts of organic farmers to move away from monocultures, where crops are farmed in single-species plots, are fantastic; crop rotations and mixed planting are much better for the soil and environment. My goal in this post isn’t to bash organic farms, instead, it’s to bust the worst of the myths that surround them so that everyone can judge organic farming based on facts. In particular, there are four myths thrown around like they’re real that just drive me crazy.

Now to the nitty gritty:

shockingly, the actual volume usage of pesticides on organic farms is not recorded by the government. Why the government isn’t keeping watch on organic pesticide and fungicide use is a **** good question, especially considering that many organic pesticides that are also used by conventional farmers are used more intensively than synthetic ones due to their lower levels of effectiveness. According to the National Center for Food and Agricultural Policy, the top two organic fungicides, copper and sulfur, were used at a rate of 4 and 34 pounds per acre in 1971 1. In contrast, the synthetic fungicides only required a rate of 1.6 lbs per acre, less than half the amount of the organic alternatives.

that makes organic farming different, then? It’s not the use of pesticides, it’s the origin of the pesticides used. Organic pesticides are those that are derived from natural sources and processed lightly if at all before use. This is different than the current pesticides used by conventional agriculture, which are generally synthetic. It has been assumed for years that pesticides that occur naturally (in certain plants, for example) are somehow better for us and the environment than those that have been created by man. As more research is done into their toxicity, however, this simply isn’t true, either. Many natural pesticides have been found to be potential – or serious – health risks.2

Take the example of Rotenone. Rotenone was widely used in the US as an organic pesticide for decades 3. Because it is natural in origin, occurring in the roots and stems of a small number of subtropical plants, it was considered “safe” as well as “organic“. However, research has shown that rotenone is highly dangerous because it kills by attacking mitochondria, the energy powerhouses of all living cells. Research found that exposure to rotenone caused Parkinson’s Disease-like symptoms in rats 4, and had the potential to kill many species, including humans. Rotenone’s use as a pesticide has already been discontinued in the US as of 2005 due to health concerns***, but shockingly, it’s still poured into our waters every year by fisheries management officials as a piscicide to remove unwanted fish species.

The point I’m driving home here is that just because something is natural doesn’t make it non-toxic or safe. Many bacteria, fungi and plants produce poisons, toxins and chemicals that you definitely wouldn’t want sprayed on your food.

Just last year, nearly half of the pesticides that are currently approved for use by organic farmers in Europe failed to pass the European Union’s safety evaluation that is required by law 5. Among the chemicals failing the test was rotenone, as it had yet to be banned in Europe. Furthermore, just over 1% of organic foodstuffs produced in 2007 and tested by the European Food Safety Authority were found to contain pesticide levels above the legal maximum levels – and these are of pesticides that are not organic 6. Similarly, when Consumer Reports purchased a thousand pounds of tomatoes, peaches, green bell peppers, and apples in five cities and tested them for more than 300 synthetic pesticides, they found traces of them in 25% of the organically-labeled foods, but between all of the organic and non-organic foods tested, only one sample of each exceeded the federal limits8.

Not only are organic pesticides not safe, they might actually be worse than the ones used by the conventional agriculture industry. Canadian scientists pitted ‘reduced-risk’ organic and synthetic pesticides against each other in controlling a problematic pest, the soybean aphid. They found that not only were the synthetic pesticides more effective means of control, the organic pesticides were more ecologically damaging, including causing higher mortality in other, non-target species like the aphid’s predators9. Of course, some organic pesticides may fare better than these ones did in similar head-to-head tests, but studies like this one reveal that the assumption that natural is better for the environment could be very dangerous.

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after the one time mention of a 1971 date I didn't see any other calendar references in that excerpt.

we can debate about pesticides until the cows come home, but the chemical lobby at least in America is an extremely powerful one so don't see that subject going away any time soon.

if we get on the subject of meat or poultry that is raised organically I think there is a pretty clear defining line here when it comes to steroids, hormones, feeding practices, and in particular, antibiotics. I don't want to eat a cow that was raised eating feed comprised of animal products, nor do I want to eat a chicken breast that made up 70 percent of the bird's body mass. somehow that just doesn't seem like a good idea, and i'm not even talking science here.

my jaw practically hit the floor when I read the food giant Cargill publicly announced that it couldn't possibly be involved in the contaminated beef outbreak a couple of years ago, "because they bleach their meat". maybe it's just me but as far as i'm concerned bleach has no business being in a burger.

mcdonald's executives invited to a discussion round by Anthony Bourdain and Eric Ripert, two professional chefs in NYC, on the quality of their menus when asked if they ate at their fast food chains replied not just "no" but "he!! no".

when I started my "why we should pay more for our food" thread I wasn't even thinking about organic--I was thinking more about my parents' generation and wondering what happened to common sense and why it's not so common anymore.

Edited by nick

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Like many, I'm kind of in the middle on what I actually purchase from an organic perspective. Obviously, the right way to do it is to raise/grow my own. I actually have enough property to support a huge garden and a couple of steers if I had the desire. I find that I don't. Every year around March I find myself going "shucks, I didn't get the garden in". This thread is a good reminder... if I'm going to do one this year, I need to start getting on it!! :ashamed0002:

I have found somewhat local sources for what I feel are quality organic products. We get our beef from some folks about 20 minutes away. Grass fed organic beef, and the grass they are on is native... which is actually not that common. They also sell native grass seed. I've been to the farm, seen their pastures and cattle, and I feel like I know what I am getting. Since I'm buying directly from the producer, the costs are NOT any higher than purchasing 'normal' beef at the grocery store. There is a produce farm about 20 min the other direction (they also sell organic lamb). I find the produce is more difficult to do a good job with for me. I have to go much more often, and on the produce side the cost is definitely more.

For produce, yep, there are some chewed up pieces and stuff that isn't shaped 'perfectly'. I'm fine with that. Wash it off, chop it up, and you never know the difference!!

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after the one time mention of a 1971 date I didn't see any other calendar references in that excerpt.

we can debate about pesticides until the cows come home, but the chemical lobby at least in America is an extremely powerful one so don't see that subject going away any time soon.

if we get on the subject of meat or poultry that is raised organically I think there is a pretty clear defining line here when it comes to steroids, hormones, feeding practices, and in particular, antibiotics. I don't want to eat a cow that was raised eating feed comprised of animal products, nor do I want to eat a chicken breast that made up 70 percent of the bird's body mass. somehow that just doesn't seem like a good idea, and i'm not even talking science here.

my jaw practically hit the floor when I read the food giant Cargill publicly announced that it couldn't possibly be involved in the contaminated beef outbreak a couple of years ago, "because they bleach their meat". maybe it's just me but as far as i'm concerned bleach has no business being in a burger.

mcdonald's executives invited to a discussion round by Anthony Bourdain and Eric Ripert, two professional chefs in NYC, on the quality of their menus when asked if they ate at their fast food chains replied not just "no" but "he!! no".

when I started my "why we should pay more for our food" thread I wasn't even thinking about organic--I was thinking more about my parents' generation and wondering what happened to common sense and why it's not so common anymore.

Well, eating a healthy diet, like eating less red meat, 'natural raised animals, is an entirely different ,and separate subject from organic

My parents, being old time German, and farmers, certainly ate meat that was free range, never saw antibiotics or certainly no hormones. Both died of heart related problems, and in fact, when my mother was only in her late forties, she had terrible angina already, and was told by her doctor that her arteries were like that of an old woman. By pass surgery was not an option in those days

It was a high fat diet that did them in, all derived from 'natural raised animals.

Our beef were raised on pasture, and supplimented the hay in winter, with some chopped sugar beets, mixed with ground corn. Our crop fields were fertilized with manure

We had our own milk cow, and cream was separated, and us children spent a lot of time churning butter. We grew all our own vegetables, and had a large root cellar

Had our beef and port butchered on site , at the farm, and cut. My step dad made our own sauage

I never really knew antibiotics existed, growing up, as when mom got pneumonia, the neighbour lady came and applied a hot mustard plaster-and that was it!

When we had a cow that had pneumonia, I re -call my step dad pouring whiskey down her. Never knew de-wormers existed.

Our chickens had the run of the barn yard, eating a 'natural diet.

My point being, you can eat naturally grown meat, and still not be eating healthy diet, if that diet is too high in fat, which my parent;s certainly was

I believe in a healthy diet, but that does not mean the label 'organic' has to be applied

Do I want to eat meat, from animals that were never de-wormed? Nope! Did enough time in parasitology as a lab tech for that!

There is a healthy middle ground, where you look at all of the true issues, and thus come up with how to eat healthy, versus being a slave to a label, making choices because you don't truly understand GMO foods, and by blindly believing that 'natural' is always synominious with better and harmless, as in 'natural pesticides, used by organic growers

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Here is a study by Guelph University , on organic versus synthetic pesticides

The take home message is, that when you buy organic, unless you know where that product is coming from, you have no idea how much organic pesticides that grower uses. It is also a fact, that some of theses organic pesticides are worse for both you and the environment then synthetic ones, and must be used at a higher concentration for efficacy

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/organic-pesticides-can-be-worse-than-synthetic-study/article4322612/

'

I think it is time that organic growers' get off the pot,' start to regulate the amount of organic pesticides they use, versus 'flying' on the 'organic/natural pesticide label, with consumers lulled into thinking all of these natural pesticides are harmless, thus need no regulation, when nothing can be further from the truth

here is some more sobering info:

’ve been getting questions about the biochemist Bruce Ames’ work, which I briefly cite in the Findings column as evidence that synthetic pesticides in our diet are a minuscule risk for cancer. So let me elaborate on the work done by him and his colleague, Lois Swirsky Gold, the director of the Carcinogenic Potency Project at Berkeley.

Dr. Ames was one of the early heroes of environmentalism. He invented the widely used Ames Test, which is a quick way to screen for potential carcinogens by seeing if a chemical causes mutations in bacteria. After he discovered that Tris, a flame-retardant in children’s pajamas, caused mutations in the Ames Test, he helped environmentalists three decades ago in their successful campaign to ban Tris — one of the early victories against synthetic chemicals.

But Dr. Ames began rethinking this war against synthetic chemicals after thousands of chemicals had been subjected to his test. He noticed that plenty of natural chemicals flunked the Ames test. He and Dr. Gold took a systematic look at the chemicals that had been tested on rodents. They found that about half of natural chemicals tested positive for carcinogencity, the same proportion as the synthetic chemicals. Fruits, vegetables, herbs and spices contained their own pesticides that caused cancer in rodents. The toxins were found in apples, bananas, beets, Brussel sprouts, collard greens, grapes, melons, oranges, parsley, peaches — the list went on and on.

Then Dr. Ames and Dr. Gold estimated the..........

You can read more , by going to this link, Knowledge is power!

http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/06/06/synthetic-v-natural-pesticides/?_r=0

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Many educated people have commented on the info, concerning Dr Ame;s link in my above post

I have just copied one, as it points out my stance that to convert the World completely to organic, would make feeding the world population impossible, unless you were going to convert most of the World land to growing food, and besides that, no proof that eating organic is healthier, or that organic pesticides are less carcinogenic then synthetic ones

I live on an apple farm and it irks me no end to see lists published in major newspapers and magazines putting apples near the top of fruits and vegetables with the highest pesticide residue. Go to Bruce Ames’ website and look at his list of carcinogenic chemicals and where they rank. Alcohol, coffee, mushrooms, hamburgers, lettuce, french fries, etc. etc. are way higher up on the list than Captan. 80% of what gets sprayed on apples is Captan. Ames puts Captan 3rd from the bottom of his list with our exposure level at less than 1/100,000,000 the level that caused cancer in rats. Furthermore, Captan is a fungicide. Ames has identified fungus as being highly carcinogenic. Not only is Captan completely harmless to humans, it actually protects us from exposure to natural carcinogens.

Conventional wisdom had it right all along: an apple a day keeps the doctor away.

Quick comment on the environmental impact of synthetic chemicals. Nobel prize winning agronomist Norman Borlaug points out that to feed the world using only organic methods would require the conversion of all arable land on earth to the production of crops. The entire Brazilian rainforest would need to be clear-cut and cultivated. Obviously not an acceptable solution.

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well here's a shocking article I read today in the INYT. a remote research center on the Nebraska Plains houses scientists that are trying to manipulate surgery and breeding techniques to re-engineer the farm animal to "fit the needs of the 21st century meat industry". Pigs, instead of having the normal eight head litter are having up to 14, resulting in crushed offspring because mom has nowhere to go when she needs to roll over. cows, which normally bear one calf are being retooled to have twins or triplets. oh--that can't be good.

the title is "to raise meat profits, researchers let livestock suffer". the facility is a tax payer financed institution called the U.S Meat Animal Research Center, in Clay Center.

the date on this article ein the INYT is January 21st, should anybody care to read it. you know.

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Again, free range, allowing animals humane living conditions, are not one and the same with organic

Here is a fact, concerning pigs that , even when living in optimal conditions, have in born instincts that make them less then maternal marvels

All our pigs where raised , 'natural'-large outdoor pens, and fed garden left overs, besides chop.

They were allowed to have their litters in large roomy stalls with straw for bedding. There were some sows, that if you were not Johny on the spot, while they were farrowing, would either lie on their babies, or even eat them. Lots of room, did not prevent piglets from being crushed by some of those sows.

Chickens can be cannibalistic, to the point that if one chicken had a wound, they would peck that chicken , until it was raw and bleeding

I never said I was in favor of 'factory management of animals, where they lived in cramped dark crowded facilities, fed hormones for maximum growth. I am all for animal advocacy groups that are working towards changing that practice, but at the same time, I'm not swinging at the opposite end of the spectrum, blindly accepting the labeling of free range as being synominious with healthy meat and all the animals living in some kind of utopia

Buffalo ranching here is very popular, as buffalo are very hardy, thus raised free range, winter and summer. That their meat is leaner and healthier than beef, is a proven scientific fact, and thus I have no argument with people that pay that extra, to buy buffalo meat.

As those that are open minded have stated, you combine the best of 'traditional farming with organic, based farming, by learning the facts, and thus formulating your eating habit on those facts-kinda like taking the best out of many clinics, then applying what works best for you and your horse, instead of being rabid about NH training

We, here in Alberta have huge grazing areas for cattle, not to mention, many ranchers have leases for government land, also that many cattle spend the summer on the same range shared by wild life-in the forestry and foothills

Yes, there are feed lots, where cattle are finished, but by no means does everyone eat beef here that is feed lot raised.

By the way, just down from my son's, is a horse feed lot, where horses (drafts) are raised for the sole purpose of supplying horsemeat for Europe

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don't know why they'd be rasing horses for the European meat market. horse slaughter is legal here and there are plenty of home grown specimens. not that popular in Germany but considered a delicacy in Italy, france and Belgium, Poland, among others. did you mean Japan maybe?

it is pretty well controlled through the passport system within the EU. my horse would never qualify for rendering as he is being pumped full of antibiotics for lymes disease.

Edited by nick

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