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nick

Vaccinations Back On The Docket

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senator rand paul has gone on record recently saying that parents should have final say in the vaccine schedule of their children (I wasn't aware that they didn't) and stating negative repercussions in mental or physical effects. governor chris Christie has voiced similar opinions.

given that the medical community is overwhelmingly in support of vaccinating and apparently there is no scientific evidence against vaccination, what say you? senator paul isn't against vaccines per se but feels that the state has no business telling parents how and when.

both of these guys are potential GOP candidates for the 2016 presidential campaign

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Vacs were mandatory for any child going to pubic school, or most private schools for as many years as I can remember. Lot of battles ensued over religious rights on that. And I WILL say that our government has its face WAAAYY too far into personal rights.

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I say vaccinations for something like measles, which is proven safe, should be mandatory. Unvaccinated kids should never have been allowed to go to public schools, and if not vaccinated, the parents should have been fined.

Not saying all vaccinations fall into this category.

ETA: Better yet, the parents should have been jailed for child neglect and endangerment with regard to skipping vaccinations for measles.

Edited by Wild Rose

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Vaccinations for children going to public school, is no different than requiring proof that a horse has been vaccinated before entering a horse show. I can agree with Oz that government is in our face way to much, but vaccinations should be non-issue when it comes to government intervention. PD

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Vaccinations for children going to public school, is no different than requiring proof that a horse has been vaccinated before entering a horse show. I can agree with Oz that government is in our face way to much, but vaccinations should be non-issue when it comes to government intervention. PD

Agree.

The reason that we are starting to see outbreaks of some viral diseases that had been irradiated, is due to part of the population that refuses vaccinations, and thus become breeding grounds for these organisms, with many of those organisms having a more virulent and resistant form than in the past

We have seen in with horses, where some , because Eastern and western Encephalitis had been almost eliminated, due to vaccination, become lax in vaccinating their horses, and thus pockets of out break occurred.

It only becomes that parent's right, far as to what is considered core immunizations, if they plan on keeping their child isolated , away from other children

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paul's primary beef was with having so many different vaccines given simultaneously. without being a scientist myself, I can see his point if they aren't co-dependent.

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Vaccination keeps our entire population safe and I feel they are essential to keeping diseases eradicated and/or under control. Similar to our Driver's Licenses giving us permission to operate vehicles with specific rules to keep everyone safe and penalties when we don't follow those rules. On the comment about spacing vaccinations apart, I thought they were spaced out and given at different times? Or were supposed to be?

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got me. I was amazed to hear that parents don't have the final say. I wouldn't let my vet vaccinate my dog or horse without my okay and according to my timetable.

I also don't know if this is state or fed mandated.

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What with the latest outbreaks of diseases that hadn't been seen in decades, I have to say, vaccinating should be mandatory for everyone.

I get, those who don't for religious reasons, but, should they be able to enroll their kids in school with yours and mine? Plus, if it's the law, why should they be able to break that law?

As far as safety goes, I think the benefits far outweigh the risks.

I agree with WR, actually, I think not vaccinating your children can/should be considered child endangerment.

And, what a surprise, a politician changing his mind 5 times in as many days.

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Actually, I can't wrap my head around a parent not choosing to vaccinate.

A child should not be allowed to enter school unvaccinated.

If the parent chooses to not, that child gets home schooled.

I think, it should be the parents decision, but, don't expect to put those kids into the public school system.

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On the comment about spacing vaccinations apart, I thought they were spaced out and given at different times? Or were supposed to be?

An infant following the recommended vaccine schedule receives 22 vaccines by their 1st birthday.

What with the latest outbreaks of diseases that hadn't been seen in decades, I have to say, vaccinating should be mandatory for everyone.

I get, those who don't for religious reasons, but, should they be able to enroll their kids in school with yours and mine? Plus, if it's the law, why should they be able to break that law?

As far as safety goes, I think the benefits far outweigh the risks.

I agree with WR, actually, I think not vaccinating your children can/should be considered child endangerment.

And, what a surprise, a politician changing his mind 5 times in as many days.

Bolding added for emphasis. So you are telling me that my perfectly healthy, un-vaccinated 4yr old should be taken away because you don't agree with my parenting choices? Does the same go for the parent who puts soda in a baby bottle or lets their kid eat potato chips for breakfast? The government needs to stay out of my business.

Actually, I can't wrap my head around a parent not choosing to vaccinate.

A child should not be allowed to enter school unvaccinated.

If the parent chooses to not, that child gets home schooled.

I think, it should be the parents decision, but, don't expect to put those kids into the public school system.

I am perfectly willing to home school my child. The public school system is messed up anyway.

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I think, the pros outweigh the con's, when it comes to vaccinating children.

What about exposure to illnesses that can be debilitating?

When people don't vaccinate their animals for preventable diseases and, that animal gets sick, people go crazy, why is it different for children?

I expressed my opinions, that's all, I can't help it if, my being truthful, ruffles feathers.

Edited by equicrzy

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It's a tricky one.

On the one hand, there are individual rights.

On the other, there is public safety.

Unvaccinated children present a risk to other children. Unvaccinated adults present a risk to other adults. Plain and simple.

There are people who CAN'T be vaccinated because of immune system problems or whatever. Those people rely, sometimes for survival, on trusting that those around them are vaccinated.

I can understand skipping the flu shot if you always get bad side effects with it, but... The link between vaccinations and autism has been disproven over and over again.

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something I don't understand about this, given the measles outbreak backstory, when I was growing up parents wanted their kids to get mumps, chicken pox and measles, given the dangers of these diseases in adults and with the resulting immunity. my mom locked my brother in the same room with me when I got spotty--didn't work but she gave it a try. what happened to that school of thought?

we were in Africa, but all the parents were americans, brits, aussies, dutch, german, etc, and the hospitals we had access to were westernized facilities with likewise staff.

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got me. I was amazed to hear that parents don't have the final say. I wouldn't let my vet vaccinate my dog or horse without my okay and according to my timetable.

I also don't know if this is state or fed mandated.

But Nick, if you were to board your horse (which you do, I know ), or send it out to training, attend certain shows, then you would by policy of those venues, have to have your horse vaccinated according to their protocol.

As I said before, if parents want to isolate their children , not send them to school, or any other place they might come into contact with other children, then that is a different ball game, and what that parent does with his child, affects no one else

IFar as I know, multi vaccines are not given at one time, and I certainly spread out the ones that I give to my horses

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something I don't understand about this, given the measles outbreak backstory, when I was growing up parents wanted their kids to get mumps, chicken pox and measles, given the dangers of these diseases in adults and with the resulting immunity. my mom locked my brother in the same room with me when I got spotty--didn't work but she gave it a try. what happened to that school of thought?

we were in Africa, but all the parents were americans, brits, aussies, dutch, german, etc, and the hospitals we had access to were westernized facilities with likewise staff.

Yes, many of us got natural immunity, through exposure, but the possible serious side effects out weigh any vaccination reactions.

For instance;

Measles can be dangerous, especially for babies and young children. From 2001-2013, 28% of children younger than 5 years old who had measles had to be treated in the hospital.

For some children, measles can lead to:

  • Pneumonia (a serious lung infection)
  • Lifelong brain damage
  • Deafness
  • Death

The mumps virus usually causes swelling in glands just below the ears, giving the appearance of chipmunk cheeks. Before the vaccine, mumps was the most common cause of both meningitis (inflammation of the lining of the brain and spinal cord) and acquired deafness in the U.S. In men, mumps can infect the testicles, which can lead to infertility.

Rubella is also known as German measles. It can cause a mild rash on the face, swelling of glands behind the ears, and in some cases, swelling of the small joints and low-grade fever. Most children recover quickly with no lasting effects. But if a pregnant woman gets rubella, it can be devastating. If she's infected during the first trimester of pregnancy, there's at least a 20% chance her child will have a birth defect such as blindness, deafness, a heart defect, or mental retardation.

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but why did my parents want us to get measles, mumps and chicken pox when we were kids? lice was never a concern, guess Africa didn't have them.

we went to public schools, and it was never a concern. ??

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because our parents wanted us to develop natural immunity, have all the kids get measles etc at the same time, and in my day anyways, the MMR vaccine was not available

Here is also why you don't want the general population walking around un vaccinated, because you put the below group at serious risk, since they cannot have that vaccine, due to a compromised immune system, thus are very vulnerable to the diseases that they prevent, liable to die.

you shouldn't have the shot if:

  • You have a severe allergic reaction following the first MMR shot.
  • You are allergic to gelatin or neomycin.
  • You may be pregnant or are planning to become pregnant in the next 4 weeks. (The vaccine is safe if you are breastfeeding.)
  • Your immune system is weak because of cancer drugs, corticosteroids, or AIDS.

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what's wrong with natural immunity? my parents took steps to make sure we didn't get malaria or polio, or rather the government did since my father was assigned to schlepp his family there.

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Nothing is wrong with natural immunity, BUT the risk in developing natural immunity, far as serious side effects of that disease, is much higher then getting that immunity through a vaccine

When you acquire natural immunity, you actually get the disease, as that virus is at it's true virulence

Using vaccinations, your immune system is exposed to the same antigen, only it is either killed or is an attenuated live vaccine (weakened ) Thus, your body will produce those antibodies, but you avoid the possible serious side effects that those diseases can have

If you read above, some side effects of measles in children, is brain damage and deafness

Before vaccinations, mumps was the most common cause of menigitis

Why risk these serious possible side effects, by acquiring natiural immunity?

Many horses have developed natural immunity to West Nile, while others got permanent neurological damage, acquiring that natural immunity. It's a no brainer to me!

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People were blaming Autism on vaccinations given to babies at the age of two (when many signs of Autism show up). Many parents began to reject all childhood vaccinations and chose not to have their children given any form of vaccination.

Jenny McCarthy and other celebs were on the news and talk shows touting how horrible it is to vaccinate your child. They sold lots of books and were given millions of dollars for their charities.

Parents can apply for non-vaccination status when admitting their child to Public and Private Schools. The form states that vaccination goes against the parents religious or personal beliefs.

In my state almost 10% of the kids in public schools are not vaccinated.

The kids who are suffering from and spreading measles to other states after a trip to Disney Land were not vaccinated. The current number of states with measle outbreaks from this single source is 8.

http://news.yahoo.com/disneyland-measles-outbreak-isnt-largest-recent-memory-191857414.html;_ylt=AwrTccOQj9JUI64AE3AnnIlQ

Before there were vaccinations, parents tried to get their health kids sick because those same diseases became more deadly and had more serious side affects when they got them as adults.

Edited by dondie

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Far as the price paid at times, in developing natural immunity, should you survive that disease itself, I think some pretty good examples are small pox and polio

While the number of children that developed brain damage from measles, or deafness or meningitis from mumps, is not as dramatic as the above examples, the idea of natural versus vaccination acquired immunity, is obvious

Far as lice, no idea, as to how prevalent they were in Africa, but now you are talking of a parasite, so not sure of how lice apply to vaccinations

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I said that we had no lice in Africa, so therefore not an issue. we had lots of other concerns, but none of them had to do with lactose allergies or any of the other "fad" allergies, which I firmly believe have to do with processed foods. there were footworms from running around barefoot (talk about parasites!), and malaria and polio, which my parents took measures against. NONE of my 6 or 7 year old peers developed meningitis from measles, chicken pox or mumps, and there were plenty of us running around at birthday parties and in school.

just for fun, I saved my shot records from a life in Africa, Thailand, and Korea. they are about 25 pages long of teeny tiny writing from US arny doctors, and nowhere is there a flu shot, a measles shot, or anything else that we're talking about here. glammaglobin, rabies, tetanus, yadah, yadah, but nothing else. and I lived In 3rd world countries until I was 21 years old. often what is termed a "mosh pit".

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None the less that info is all anecdotal, Nick, as as the facts and number of statistics of serious side effects from diseases like measles, are based on true data.

I also escaped serious side effects from actually having measles and mumps, but not ALL children were as lucky

I was lucky another time, way back when mouth pipetting was still done in labs. A child was dying of hepatitis, and I was trying to pipette .1cc from a very small sample of serum that was left, to repeat a test.

Air got in, and I got some of that serum in my mouth.

I got a shot of gamma globulin, and hoped for the best.

If lice eggs are around, lice will spread, no matter where you live. Surely you know that fact from horse parasitology!

Malaria is caused also by a parasite, carried by mosquitoes. There are anti malarial drugs, but no vaccine so far.

The person who taught us Bac T , came from south Africa, and he had parasite stories that made your skin crawl!

Yes, hook worms gain entrance through bare feet

I don't know how you got onto fad allergies, from vaccines-is there a point?

Gamma globulin is used to boost the immune system, when exposed to a virus that you have no immunity to. It can work, but not always. Gamma Globulin is that faction of plasma that contains antibodies

Because you, I and many more did not have serious side effects from measles or mumps, does not change over all statistics. They were not just pulled out of the air, but taken from that % of children having those diseases, that developed these complications

Here is some stats;

  • As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
  • About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or mentally retarded.
  • For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.
Edited by Smilie

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