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nick

The Pit Bull Is A Lovely Dog

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yes, I know what dachs mean. shorter than "wildschwein" (wild boar) and sounds less dangerous. I was confronted by 14 moms and their babies once on a horse. no fun. would rather see a badger.

the name was marketing to the masses who can't control them but find them so "kyoot". my husband's family had one that wouldn't let his mom sit on the couch when he was there. are we getting the picture? the dog wouldn't let the mom sit on the couch... something was wrong with the owners.

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Pibbles are too cool. Perfect couch potatoes, great apartment dogs, gentle natures and adorable faces. What's not to love?

Not necessarily. I'd say about a quarter of the pit mixes I've met are couch potatoes. Another quarter or so are terriers to a "T" with big energy and drive. And of course there's a lot of variety in the rest.

I don't know actual pit bulls. I only have experience with pit mixes, which are by far the most common breed(mix) in my area.

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Not necessarily. I'd say about a quarter of the pit mixes I've met are couch potatoes. Another quarter or so are terriers to a "T" with big energy and drive. And of course there's a lot of variety in the rest.

I don't know actual pit bulls. I only have experience with pit mixes, which are by far the most common breed(mix) in my area.

When compared to Dalmatians, Pointers, Malinois, etc., Pit Bulls are couch potatoes with relatively low energy. Individuals are, of course, not all identical but in general, Pibbles are pretty laid back most of the time, content to be comfortable with their people. Puppies not included. I'm not saying that they have no energy or desire to run and romp, just that it is easily contained and they are not known for great stamina. I could wear a puppy out playing fetch down my hallway in my house (about 15 feet). Not so with my Dal or my Mals. Fetch was played with a ball launcher by launching a ball 1/4 mile down a dirt road for about 30 minutes twice a day!

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When out on my own, I make a judgment call based on body language (of the dog). Any breed can be sweet and friendly, or standoffish, or downright nasty. Some may have more propensity than others, but IMO the 'nurture' part of dog ownership can make a big difference. That portion you can't assume just based on a dogs breed.

When I'm out with MY dogs, I just assume that other dogs are dog aggressive. I don't like it when people allow their strange dogs to approach my dog, and I ask them not to. I also do not allow mine to approach theirs. My dogs don't need to greet every dog they meet, or make friends, or play. Worst offenders are almost always small dog owners in vet offices. I don't know why they think it is funny to have their dog scrambling on the far end of the leash trying to get to the other dog to say "Hi". If I let my dogs do that, they would be horrified at the big uncontrolled dog trying to get to them. My boys have to SIT in that situation, and it can be difficult for them. People don't understand the concept of not allowing the interaction.

The first response when I request that they keep their dog away is to assume my animal is aggressive/mean. Not at ALL the case. My job is to protect them from critters (and people) I don't know. I also don't go to dog parks. Ugh.

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When out on my own, I make a judgment call based on body language (of the dog). Any breed can be sweet and friendly, or standoffish, or downright nasty. Some may have more propensity than others, but IMO the 'nurture' part of dog ownership can make a big difference. That portion you can't assume just based on a dogs breed.

When I'm out with MY dogs, I just assume that other dogs are dog aggressive. I don't like it when people allow their strange dogs to approach my dog, and I ask them not to. I also do not allow mine to approach theirs. My dogs don't need to greet every dog they meet, or make friends, or play. Worst offenders are almost always small dog owners in vet offices. I don't know why they think it is funny to have their dog scrambling on the far end of the leash trying to get to the other dog to say "Hi". If I let my dogs do that, they would be horrified at the big uncontrolled dog trying to get to them. My boys have to SIT in that situation, and it can be difficult for them. People don't understand the concept of not allowing the interaction.

The first response when I request that they keep their dog away is to assume my animal is aggressive/mean. Not at ALL the case. My job is to protect them from critters (and people) I don't know. I also don't go to dog parks. Ugh.

Yes!

the problem is dog owners and not the dog.

Always!^

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the problem is dog owners and not the dog.

Certainly. But it still doesn't negate that a dog an owner has allowed to become a problem, IS, in fact, a problem for others that may require evasive, defensive and/or offensive action.

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the problem is dog owners and not the dog.

Is a problem owner of a toy poodle the same as a problem owner of a Pitbull. I don't think so.

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oh yes it is. a dog with no rules, boundaries or limitations is a public nuisance and hazard no matter the size or body mass. I got blood poisoning from a bite (missed main wrist vein by 1 cm) from a 12 lb terrier mix two years ago that landed me in the hospital for 4 days hooked up to an IV antibiotic drip. that dog's owners insurance paid for the costs but it was still four days out of my life that I could have used doing something more productively. am I afraid of terriers now? no, but I consider a lot of dog owners a bunch of chumps and don't blame the breed.

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That is a " one in a million " chance from a terrier bite. Glad you're alright. It is in no way comparable to the carnage that results from a Pitbull bite.

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oh yes it is. a dog with no rules, boundaries or limitations is a public nuisance and hazard no matter the size or body mass. I got blood poisoning from a bite (missed main wrist vein by 1 cm) from a 12 lb terrier mix two years ago that landed me in the hospital for 4 days hooked up to an IV antibiotic drip. that dog's owners insurance paid for the costs but it was still four days out of my life that I could have used doing something more productively. am I afraid of terriers now? no, but I consider a lot of dog owners a bunch of chumps and don't blame the breed.

If the same thing happened with a 80lb pit or rot you would have bypassed the hospital and gone straight to the morgue.

There is no comparing a small aggressive dog to a large one that can put an adult on the ground.

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The comparison is very real to a person that is afraid of dogs in general. I understand that the damage done by a large dog is typically much more severe than that done by a small dog but the emotional damage is very much the same when you are speaking of a small/young person or one that has a phobia.

I have been taken to court and sued for damages when a persons toy poodle bolted out of their house and attacked my GSD, which was on a leash. My GSD picked the poodle up by it's neck and threw it into the street. This resulted in some stitches for the poodle. I did not have to pay any damages and the poodle owner was fined for dog at large". I never walked my GSD around the block again though because I was afraid of retaliation.

I do not believe a dog owner should take their dog out in public if they cannot control it, regardless of size or type. I also do not believe that the rules should apply according to size and potential for damage. Perspective and all that.

One more firm belief of mine. It is never the dog's fault that a person is bitten. Never. Somebody somewhere in that dog's life put it in the position to bite. Breeder, owner, dog walker, whatever. Someone failed to protect that dog from itself as well as outside threats.

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just occurred to me that the American Veterinarian Association of America and the American Bar Association have come out officially as being against the bully breeds list, as is the White House. hmm, look at that.

I had a horse years ago that needed medical treatment a couple of times of a week, and I had to go to America for two at the onset. want to know what the vet asked? (nervously). "there isn't a vicious dachshund or terrier that I need to know about is there?" I'm pretty sure she was speaking from experience.

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 12:28 PM

Heidi, I understand your apprehension, but what do you want to do as a dog owner if there's an irresponsible pit bull owner around every corner, or a rat terrier for that matter? become a shut in? in the united states, as far as I know, there are strict leash laws which carry hefty fines if violated. notify the owners before you notify the authorities in the interests of communication, but let the know there WILL be consequences. for gawd's sake stand up for yourself and your dog's right to go for a walk without fear of being attacked!

Easier said then done...Yes there are laws many people don't abide them.....Also Depends on one's county out in the rural area.... When living on the farm neighbors allowed their dogs to run loose, one got hit by a car, broke it's hip that dog still went out chased cars, kids on their bicycles, even went after my daughter /her horse. That dog disappeared, later on two strays showed up at the neighbors, neighbors fed them dogs stuck around the one was an male unfixed Rottweiler the other a mix .The Rottweiler also attacked people riding thier bikes or walking down the road .Chase vehicles again the horses when one rode down the road even would chase deer out the woods, seen this dogs at our place through to all the properties. Animal control called every time they came the dogs would disappear for two weeks .then back. In fact the lady told the animal control officer they weren't her dogs, we just feed them. The officer to informed doesn't matter on your property feeding them your responsible for them. The year before I moved that spring, went to do chores, One horse missing his stall torn apart, Found the horse he was out back in the big pasture, he was full of cuts, scratches from breaking out of his stall made of wood planks, gate torn loose .The barn lot was full of tracks, torn up, found dog tracks the horse tracks, that dog went after that horse in the barn chased him outside. . just before I went out i saw that neighbors dog going back home through our woods across the field. limping. I believe our horse got him. Couldn't prove it I wasn't out there when it happened . Reported yes.It never stopped that dog from attacking. In fact I went to my mail box at the time I would carry a big stick that dog has come toward me growling. Then he would turn go back. yes I called animal control several times so did others. That dog always disappeared before they came out. Then would come back when they were gone, In fact animal control came out did a patrol for two weeks, that dog never showed upped, until the patrol stopped t he people weren't charge anything. Believe me Where I live dog owners of vicious dogs know how to play the game. People who would break the leash law /keep dog confined on own property all they would get is a slap on the wrist pay a fine . In a few cases, victim of a dog bite don't always win, why, the person agitated the dog by throwing rocks at the dog, or hitting the dog with a sticks.etc. The dog was defending itself.

In some cases the adult doesn't teach the child how act/behave around a dog even the family dog. Child gets bit. In many cases the dog is put down. In many cases some dogs don't know any better, didn't have training...

I agree it's the owners who are responsible for the training of thier dogs....

Edited by Ann Wheeler

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Ann, around where I live, those dogs would have been shot. Anything harassing livestock isn't going to last long. Plenty of loose dogs around, and those are left alone.... but I wouldn't have high hopes for long term survival on a dog that is going after livestock.

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I happen to own an 18 month old DDB/Pit mix. He's easy going, lovable, fantastic with kids (always supervised) BUT I know how to handle my dog. He doesn't get away with diddly. I've met a couple of pit bulls that made me feel a little funny, but I've met many more of other breeds that I wanted nothing to do with. Heck, I took my guy to work with me when he was about 6 months old and we got ambushed by a St. Bernard. He tried to run and a nice solid kick in the chest from me stopped her luckily. I won't tolerate a disrespectful dog. My dogs don't jump, they don't bark when I let someone into the house, they don't pull on the leash etc. Do I think that all problems lie in the owners hands? NO. Just as there are bad eggs in the horse world, there are bad eggs in the dog world. A friend of mine had 2 bulldogs. One had to be put down because he was so unpredictable and aggressive.

I've seen far too many bites on children (and adults) because parents think a dog is being quiet, but when you look at the body language the dog is very uncomfortable.

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ears up, tail up, body tension in any breed, trouble coming that needs to nipped in the bud by the leader of the pack. that's what the alpha dog does.

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Ann, around where I live, those dogs would have been shot. Anything harassing livestock isn't going to last long. Plenty of loose dogs around, and those are left alone.... but I wouldn't have high hopes for long term survival on a dog that is going after livestock.

Yes here too one has to be there at the time have proof when it happens..... Other wise property owner can be sued by dog owner even though their dog was trespassing on the property. It has happened the dog owner won due to lack of evidence of dog actually attacking the livestock.

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I never read all the posts, but will put in my two cents worth

Yes, any dog can attack a human, BUT look at statistics and the number of times serious, and even fatal attacks were made on humans, and the pit bull come up on top

Listing the exceptions-those 'lovely pit bulls', mentioning human error in management of these dogs, does not change the bottom line, far as statistics

The entire point of data, is to use it .

The pit bull was bred as a fighting dog, not just to bite, but clamp down and hang on

Sorry, I'm 100 % in favor of having laws that discriminate against this breed, but then I'm also in favor of keeping assault rifles out of the hands of the general public

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See the topic has expanded to dogs attacking/harassing livestock/horses, and no questions asked, any stray dog like that who comes near our animals, does not leave alive!

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Just some statistics and cases

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2015.php

When a breed of horse dominates a discipline to the point of 59%, comparable to ALL OTHer breeds,combined, it is recognized that it is the breed which excels in that discipline, regardless if the odd individual from other breeds have some success, esp in their combined statistics

Here is the one for pit bulls, so please tell me how someone can stick their head in the sand, and not recognize that this breed excels at attacking and killing people

'A 2009 report issued by DogsBite.org shows that 19 dog breeds contributed to 88 deaths in the 3-year period of 2006 to 2008. Pit bulls accounted for 59% followed by rottweilers with 14%. Of the 88 fatal dog attacks recorded by DogsBite.org, pit bull type dogs were responsible for59% (52).Nov 16, 2015

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Recent data:

'

  • 42 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2014. Despite being regulated inMilitary Housing areas and over 700 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 64% (27) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population.2
  • Together, pit bulls (27) and rottweilers (4), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 74% of the total recorded deaths in 2014. This same combination also accounted for 74% of all fatal attacks during the 10-year period of 2005 to 2014.
  • The breakdown between these two breeds is substantial over this 10-year period. From 2005 to 2014, pit bulls killed 203 Americans, about one citizen every 18 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 38, about one citizen every 96 days.
  • In the year of 2014, the combination of pit bulls (27), rottweilers (4) and mastiff-type guard dogs and war dogs (4) -- the types used to create "baiting" bull breeds and fighting breeds -- accounted for 83% (35) of all dog bite-related fatalities.3
  • Annual data from 2014 shows that 48% (20) of the fatality victims were children 13-years and younger, and 52% (22) were adults, 20-years and older. Of the total adults killed by dogs in 2014, 73% (16) were ages 50-years and older.
  • Annual data shows that when combining all age groups, female victims (24) were greater in number than male victims (18). Amongst adults 50-years and older, females were excessively victims 81% (13), versus males 19% (3).
  • In 2014, 19% (8), of all dog bite fatality victims were either visiting or living temporarily with the dog's owner when the fatal attack occurred, down from 38% in 2013. Children 6-years and younger accounted for 88% (7) of these deaths.
  • 57% (24) of all fatalities in 2014 involved more than one dog; 19% (8) involved a pack attack of four or more dogs; 31% (13) involved breeding on the dog owner's property either actively or in the recent past and 5% (2) involved tethered dogs.
  • Dog ownership information for 2014 shows that family dogs comprised 48% (20) of all fatal attack occurrences, 40% (17) of the attacks occurred off the dog owner's property, up from 22% in 2013, and 21% (9) resulted in criminal charges.
  • Texas led lethal dog attacks in 2014 with 7 deaths. 86% (6) were attributed to pit bulls and 43% resulted in felony charges, up from 0% in 2013. Florida followed with 5 deaths, North Carolina 4 deaths and Alabama and Ohio each with 3 deaths.
  • Jurisdictions in two states each incurred 2 dog bite fatalities in 2014 -- Bell County, Texas and Montgomery County, Ohio. Both attacks in Montgomery County occurred in the City of Dayton. No felony charges resulted from these 4 deadly attacks.4

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your sources? conspiculously absent.

Absent? No. Conspicuously posted, in fact.

Just some statistics and cases

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2015.php

Here is the one for pit bulls ...

'A 2009 report issued by DogsBite.org shows ...

Smilie's post #85 that begins "recent data" is copied/pasted from the DogsBite.org website.

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your sources? conspiculously absent.

Thanks, Heidi

The links are there , Nick, you just have to click on them to see the source.

Edited by Smilie

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I personally wouldn't own a pit bull,they have a bad reputation,i know of people who owned what they thought were NICE pit bulls who turned on the owner...so i'll pass on owning a dog with that potential to attack and kill people.

I own 2 dogs one is lab/ springer cross and he can be aggressive towards strange people..almost bit the telephone guy that came in our yard. Delivery people know not to enter our front gates if dogs are out,my male dog will bite. Its is clearly posted on front gates dog bites do not enter if dogs are out.

If i'am outside when someone comes through gates i tell my dog come and, he comes and sit right next to me..wont move or bark at that point. Any stay dog comes on our property to chase or harrasses our horses, or to harrasses or kill my rabbits i raise for butcher get shot period. I know how to load and shoot the riffle's my hubby owns.

And i can shoot to kill if need be, it's a skill i feel everyone needs to know to protect your live stock if the need arises....or to put down a horse in need of immediate euthanization right then and there.

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Smilie your data does not account for the popularity, and therefor the numbers, of PBs. The more of them there are, the more incidents they will be involved in. It would be very difficult to account for the % of PBs that are involved in bites and/or fatalities though since most are not registered with any registry. I really doubt that the % is disproportional though or that it is higher than other large and popular breeds like rotts and GSDs. I bet the bite incident % is lower with PBs than with Belgian Malinois since BMs are not for novice owners at all! I can't back that up of course, but I believe it would be true if the research could be done.

Another problem with accounting for the "breed" responsible for bites is that any dog with short hair and a broad"ish" head with a square nose is obviously a PB. I can think of about 10 breeds off the top of my head that ALSO fit that description, most are sporting dogs of some sort but there are also a lot of hounds that fit the bill in physical stature. Some of the sporting dogs and hounds are quite popular in my area with copious amounts of game birds to hunt and coyotes and rabbits to run with hounds.

20 or so years ago, GSDs had more bites and fatalities than any other breed but they were also the most popular breed out there.

The prison started a dog training program to help the local shelter make dogs more adoptable. We started out with a written agreement that PBs, Rotts, dobes and GSDs would not be in the program. Fully 90% of the dogs at the shelter are PB or PBx. 90%! The agreement with the city was revised to allow all breeds into the program. There are 36 dogs in the prison program right now and at least 30 of them are PB or PB mixes. The only fight between the dogs has been a PyreneesX and a Siberian Husky that were, obviously, not being properly supervised by their handlers. There have, knock on wood, been no injuries to people at all. The program was implemented in May of this year.

None of this means that I do not think that PBs are capable of inflicting damage or death because they absolutely are. It just means that they are far from the only breed capable of that and that they are so numerous and the dog responsible for an incident is often misidentified as a PB just because it has short hair and a wide head. It is sort of like every dog that is black and tan and has a double coat is obviously a rott. 10 years ago it was a dobe and 20 years ago, a GSD. I probably don't have those time references anywhere near correct but the point is the same no matter when each breed had their day in the spotlight.

I can't stand the thought of breed specific legislation. I wish that the people responsible for putting a dog in a situation where it could or would bite were held fully responsible rather than the dog, or breed/type of dog. Somebody, somewhere was responsible for that dog. Somebody bred it or allowed it to be bred, somebody did not train it/socialize it, somebody did not confine/control it/protect it, somebody got too close/provoked/didn't pay attention, etc. A dog is just a dog and should not be expected to make "human" decisions. People should be expected to make those decisions and be held responsible for making the wrong ones.

I just believe that it is not the dogs fault, ever.

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