gisles

Bucking When Spooked

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Here's another bit i use more now when we trail ride its a gag/hackamore combo. Have 5 bits for just one horse. Not a parelli fan every horse i'v seen that's parelli trained bucks & bolts and of course their owners ride them in a rope hackamore.

I use big bits but i do have body control of my horse,he's just hot and likes to jig i'v only come off him once since i trained him. Was trotting him down a hill, when he tripped and went down,i went over his head thank goodness i landed in a sandy spot. Have barrel racing reins on him so they aren't split he got up he was stepping on his reins and he freaked out and and cut his tongue. He was wearing the combo gag bit that day,not sure why he freaked out because he usually gives to pressure from bit.

He had blood coming out of his mouth,but we were 3 hour out from home,so had to ride him home with a cut tongue. Had a lead rope i hooked to his halter and rode him off halter. Still left on his bridle just in case, amazing enough he never got hyper or jiggy in the 3 hour ride back home.

Here's bit that cut his tongue. Would get pic of bridle but its out in the horse trailer along with his 4 other bridles and bits.

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See, to me that is a severe bit.It is a type of bit set up, used for control, versus signal Twisted mouth gag / mechanical hackamore combo

A horse well trained , in a curb bit, can respond to that bit by the amount of signal, before bit pressure ever occurs

I could easily ride any of my horses on a trail ride , in a snaffle, and in fact, am still using a plain snaffle of a green six year old, who got a late start

I just use a mild curb on a trail ride, as a curb is more designed to be ridden one handed, and on a loose rein, and my horses like to pack a curb. Some prefer a jointed mouth, and some one with a port

My reins are also attached with a leather connector, which in turn attaches with light rawhide string, so should a horse ever accidently step on a rein, that rein breaks free, rather than holds and causes mouth damage

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Hi Katybell

I live near the eastern slopes of the Rockies, so although we have to haul in order to ride in the mountains, the closest mountain riding area is only about a two hour haul, or less. There are also forestry and foothills to ride in, which are very close, and where we often ride in early spring, when rivers are still high. These areas are multi use, so you do run into quads, not to mention feral horses!

Most of the mountain areas we ride in, can only be assessed by horses or on foot, thus some true wilderness left preserved!.

If I just ride around home, I have just roads to ride down, or across fields when the crops are off

Sometimes our dog gets to come

Panther%20July%201_zpsovl9y2p9.jpg

This is just in the foothills, where you can get a mountain view. I am on my present show horse, Charlie. She is a half sister to my Einstein (same dam ), but a lot more reactive.. I should trial ride her more, as she is a nice horse, but also 16.1. Yes, she is white, as I bred her mom by transported semen, not realizing that the stallion carried the greying gene. He just looked like a black leopard in the journal. Guess the greying gene can act at different rates, on the base colour markings and the spots

Charliebalanceride1_zps2c44e22e.jpg

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my husband and I ride in the alps, he rides in a rope hackamore and ponies his 26 month year old in rope halter. it get's icy, cold steep and challenging. all three are not "just" parelli horses (courses in Europe are apparently VERY different than in America) , but have benefited from the program and stay mentally with us always. where this parelli slag in America comes from, I have no idea and don't care frankly but we have benefited as we have from gerd heuschmann, alfonso aguilar, anja berans, eberhard Weiss, ute holm. all of these internationally acclaimed clinicians say the same thing for gawd's sake--the horse has to respect your leg and seat otherwise you have NO horse.

I have an aversion to people slamming programs in public that they maybe have had no first hand exposure to in the first place.

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I know that bit is for control,he seems to like it, ridden him in it 4 times for trail riding. If i need to take his head away i know i can, with very light pressure on the rein. Riding him in a snaffle doesn't happen even for trail riding,bit i posted above is a for sure get him stopped and under control.

When he's HOT HYPER body control sometimes works against me, as in he over reacts goes flying sides ways, with just a light touch on the reins and all movement STOPS NOW. With that bit i leave my reins loose and ride off leg and seat, only time i use reins with that bit, is to take his head away or to stop him when he's over reacting.

Maybe there's holes in his training, or he's geared to be like he is no matter how well trained. He soft in his face he's reponsive to leg it just when he gets hot & jiggy if he could lose, the hotness then i could probably,use less severe bits.

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Just to be clear i wasn't slamming or bashing parelli,it's just the horses i'v seen that were trained that way i wasn't impressed. I'v seen parelli himself in action, and yes he's darn good and has that connection with his horses.

If you can ride your horse with a rope hackamore and have control that's really great,BUT in some cases i think a bit is a better deal. And with the horses i rode with, that were parelli trained should of been in bits,sorry those horses were not under control in those hackamores.

When you have to ride a stretch of ditch along a busy highway you better have control of your horse...and my one friend didn't with the rope hackamore. Her horse was spinning out of control along a busy highway,and came close to being hit by a car!! My horse might get hot but when we are by the highway, he keeps his head on straight and doesn't act stupid....

That horse my friend was on was spooking at cars & trucks going by...i honestly thought she was going to get killed how she didn't is beyond me. My hot jiggy horse ended up ponying that friends horse, had her on the far side from highway so her horse couldn't see the cars & trucks coming.

So when it matters i know i can count on my horse...yeah he's hot, yeah he gets jiggy over reactive, BUT he knows when he needs to keep his head on straight. And friends horse was supposed to be traffic SAFE, what i saw that day was very different, then my definition of traffic safe.

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I'll be honest, I don't like Parelli. There are many better NH trainers than him.

His entire horsenality, is a bunch of BS

Then there were his ads, showing a horse rearing, not loading, with the caption; "without Parelli', and beside it, a horse loading like any well trained horse does, with the Caption, .with Parelli'

Many horses can be ridden in a halter, as they should be, if broke. My son took the bridle off at our noon break, on one trail ride, and then just never bothered putting it back on. His horse is a trained cowhorse

Maybe riding in the alps with a bunch of other riders with halters seems like a great idea-to prove what? Do you have hunters shooting, herds of elk, grizzly bears?Do you cross fast flowing rivers, or tie your horse sup, then come back in the dark, riding to camp in the dark?

We have all seen Stacey Westfall's complete tackless reining demo, but she rides regular reining patterns in a bit

I get neither the people that use curbs for control, versus increased signal and finesse, and those that somehow think treeless saddles, not bits, ext, somehow shows more empathy towards ahorse, better training or horsemanship

So, I'll be very honest. I have zero respect for Parelli, who tries to teach people to train horses by some ABC paint by number approach, that of course, requires his special merchandize.

His Be Nice Halter, is no more that a disquished application of a nerve line

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Well, I'll be honest and come right out and say it. I don't like Parelli. There are many better NH trainers than him

His entire horsenality is a bunch of BS.

Then there are his ads. Like the one showing a horse rearing, refusing to load. It has the caption, 'without Parelli. Beside it, is a horse loading, like any well trained horse, and the caption, 'with Parelli

My horses load because they lead with respect, no Parelli needed.

If you wish to ride with a group of people, using a halter in the Alps fine, but to prove what? Do you have hunters firing rifles, cross fast flowing rivers, come across elk and grizzly bears? How about tying your horse up somewhere, far from camp, returning after dark and riding to camp, with wolves often heard howling?

I neither am in the camp of those that use curbs for control, nor those that think riding bittless, without a treed saddle, somehow exhibit greater horsemanship or connection to their horse

Last trail ride, my son took his bridle off for our noon break, then just did not bother putting it back on to ride back. His horse is a trained working cowhorse

I don't like Parelli's cookie cutter ABC Paint by number program, to teach people to train horses, along with special equipment. Of course, many watching mis apply his methodology

We have all seen Stacy Westfall's tackless freestyle reining video. Yes, finesse, using a bit just for signal, can allow you to dos o with that horse riding off of seat and legs

We do have some pretty competent riders in Alberta, where horses are still used on many working ranches, to work and doctor cattle. Those riders just don't have a purpose on riding one of their top bridle horses in a halter.

I have often led a pack horse, and a bridle just makes sense, allowing me to ride one handed, which halters aren't designed for, plus, if something spooks that pack horse, I have my saddle horse more responsive in a bit.

I guess, those that ride in the Rockies, even those that spent a lifetime making a living, doing so, just don't have the horsemanship that is being demonstrated in the alps!

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I'll be honest, I don't like Parelli. There are many better NH trainers than him.

His entire horsenality, is a bunch of BS

Then there were his ads, showing a horse rearing, not loading, with the caption; "without Parelli', and beside it, a horse loading like any well trained horse does, with the Caption, .with Parelli'

Many horses can be ridden in a halter, as they should be, if broke. My son took the bridle off at our noon break, on one trail ride, and then just never bothered putting it back on. His horse is a trained cowhorse

Maybe riding in the alps with a bunch of other riders with halters seems like a great idea-to prove what? Do you have hunters shooting, herds of elk, grizzly bears?Do you cross fast flowing rivers, or tie your horse sup, then come back in the dark, riding to camp in the dark?

We have all seen Stacey Westfall's complete tackless reining demo, but she rides regular reining patterns in a bit

I get neither the people that use curbs for control, versus increased signal and finesse, and those that somehow think treeless saddles, not bits, ext, somehow shows more empathy towards ahorse, better training or horsemanship

So, I'll be very honest. I have zero respect for Parelli, who tries to teach people to train horses by some ABC paint by number approach, that of course, requires his special merchandize.

His Be Nice Halter, is no more that a disquished application of a nerve line

Well said i totally agree,i'v seen results of his methods and like i said not impressed,plus his program cost alot of $$$ for the halter and all the other things.

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To be clear, my horses ride off of seat and legs, or it would not be possible to ride a reining pattern or a trail pattern, on a loose rein, one handed

Can you ride a reining pattern, complete with fast and slow circles, sliding stops, spins,flying lead changes, one handed and on a loose rein?

I hearn Linda Parelli speak in person, at the last Mane Event

Have you actaully looked as to what his Be Nice Halter is? It functions like a nerve line

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To be clear, my horses ride off of seat and legs, or it would not be possible to ride a reining pattern or a trail pattern, on a loose rein, one handed

Can you ride a reining pattern, complete with fast and slow circles, sliding stops, spins,flying lead changes, one handed and on a loose rein?

I hearn Linda Parelli speak in person, at the last Mane Event

Have you actaully looked as to what his Be Nice Halter is? It functions like a nerve line

Yep i can ride my horse on a loose rein and do a reining pattern with fast and slow circles,spins and sliding stops. He also rides off seat and legs, big curb bit in his mouth but i don't rely on that for control.

Heck we do the barrel pattern on a loose rein, so i'am not relying on the big bits i use for control,their there for backup..when he loses his mind and all sense of being sane. Am i proud of having to use big gag bits, HECK NO,but i wont lie and say i ride him in a snaffle.

No i'v never really looked at one of parelli be nice halters is it the rope halter they used to sell along with the carrot stick and lead with a popper ??

Sure wont ride on trails with a rope halter either we have bears and wolfs, not grizzly though and we do ride home in the dark at times too. We are lucky we have miles & miles of trails that are about a mile down the road from us,so don't have to haul to go riding.

We haul out once in a while to ride different trails, and our horses load right up and nope no parelli needed here either.

Just before deer hunting started think it was like 2 days before we went riding,as we were coming up the trail,we heard gun shots. Kept going and we came up on some guys target shooting big riffles,they had no clue we were there and fired off their guns. Thank god our horses are used to gun fire or we would of been in the next county...The riffles they had were extremely loud...neither of our horses even so much as batted an eye.

Around deer hunting its a given you'll run into people sighting in their riffles for the up coming hunting season.

Edited by Jazzystar66

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I don't have any bits I would consider harsh. I admit I ride my horses without a bit all the time. My gelding is 12. I have had him since he was a yearling and my mare is 15. I feel you should have as much control without a bit as with one on a broke horse. I would never ride the horse that threw me without a bit. The day he threw me I was using a snaffle. I had only ridden him in it twice. I should have used his curb bit that we usually ride him in.

My friend who is a barrel racer thinks you need harsh bits or you have no control. She trail rides her horse in a wire gag bit. I don't want a horse like that.

Smilie, I don't need to go far to find places to ride but I sure don't have the views you do. Absolutely beautiful. My horses would have a heart attack if they saw an elk.

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Here's a few pics of where we ride one is dirt road to get to trail access and one of many trails we ride. Pics were taken this fall. Have more pics on other computer.

smilie when you get a chance take a look at my thread posted new hoof pics..Thanks

Edited by Jazzystar66

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you do get those beautiful fall colors!

I grew up in Ontario, so really missed all those reds and purples. I never made it back at the right time in fall, over the years, until last year, attending the wedding of my niece. I hit the fall colors just right.

The first fall in Alberta, when all those trees just turned yellow, I was waiting for the reds! I now am used to just seeing golden yellow against green spruce and pines

If a saddle horse has to be de -spooked, a good pack horse has to be even more accepting! Both cinches have to be done up tight, and I mean tight1 The horse then has to accept having panniers (boxes) tied on each side of him, then a top load, and then the Diamond hitch. He also has to accept not just seeing elk, but packing a dead one out !

Hubby`s horse did draw the line though, one year, when there were still grizzly bear tags, and refused to pack out a fresh grizzly hide. His reaction was sort of, `looks like you, but sure don`t smell like you!

This is about it, far as fall colors

Carmen%20fall%201_zpsspybhmrw.jpg

Pack trip into Banff National park<

ParkParktrip_zps36738cbc.jpg

Smilie ground tied

ParkParktrip_zps36738cbc.jpg

Edited by Smilie

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we don't ride with people who have a common sense deficit--it's no fun. I also know people who actually seem to enjoy having a hot, jigging horse and I choose not to ride with them. why expose my horse to that kind of unwanted behavior--we hack out for relaxation for both of us. and speaking of which, that horseanlity chart has a lot of very useful applications, and not just in people.

having said that (re: well behaved horses), my normally calm, very willing and malleable 11 year old did a capriole under me last weekend. I chalk it up to the weather wreaking havoc with everything (seems like spring), and it was a very honest, straight "airs above ground" maneuver that was clearly not intended to unseat me but left me nonetheless quite impressed with his atheleticism. ("let's not to that again").

nice pictures everybody!

eta: I just remembered a line from some old western but can't remember the title; "would you ride with him?" it was the barometer for good character at one time.

Edited by nick

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Yes we get beautiful fall colors some years are better then others,we also get the yellow colors, the aspen usually turn a pretty yellow. Here's a picture of one a trail that's now gone do to loggers,they were supposed to clear trail after done....well that never happened. We tried riding it last fall couldn't access the last part huge tree down right in front of trail access. One picture is of a pond we go by.

The one picture of trail was in the spring my horse was turning golden palomino,so was shedding out his white colored winter coat.

Edited by Jazzystar66

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Where I grew up, people thought having a hot, jigging horse made them a better rider. I'm sure that attitude is still wandering around. The ones I knew did it by making their horses terrified of them.

I like a hot horse - I like having too much energy and having to work on channeling it much more than I do some lazy nag that i end up having to tap with a crop to get to do stuff. But I want them forward and enthusiastic, not anxious and jigging.

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Where I grew up, people thought having a hot, jigging horse made them a better rider. I'm sure that attitude is still wandering around. The ones I knew did it by making their horses terrified of them.

I like a hot horse - I like having too much energy and having to work on channeling it much more than I do some lazy nag that i end up having to tap with a crop to get to do stuff. But I want them forward and enthusiastic, not anxious and jigging.

You'd like my horse he's no lazy nag, his jigging is he want's to go faster then i'am asking for,there's no having to tap with a crop that's for sure.

I do admit the jigging get on my nerves sometimes,and him wanting to lead all the time,but i don't let him there are times he has to follow.

Sometimes when he starts his jigging and being hot, if we are were its a good straight stretch i let him go for a good run...all i'v got to do is say LETS GO and he's off like a rocket. To keep our two horses from being buddy sour we split up, daughter rides the road that goes to trail access further up & i ride in on the closer trail access.

The loop of trail we meet on is about a 2 hour ride IF you walk & trot...we like to see who can get to our meeting point first i usually win. I ride the part of trail i can run my horse on most of it. We also trade horses to do the split up when we take off on different trail.sometimes though i meet up with daughter and she's gotten off and is leading my horse...she admits he scares her when he gets hot & jiggy.

She knows getting tense and and riding his head only makes him worse,so she chooses to get off and lead him,then there are time she's still on and riding him.

Here's another pic of our trails,the puddle in front of my horse still had ice couldn't see it under the water,our horses almost went down in that puddle. We avoided that puddle on the way back went up into the woods to get around it.

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Where I grew up, people thought having a hot, jigging horse made them a better rider. I'm sure that attitude is still wandering around. The ones I knew did it by making their horses terrified of them.

I like a hot horse - I like having too much energy and having to work on channeling it much more than I do some lazy nag that i end up having to tap with a crop to get to do stuff. But I want them forward and enthusiastic, not anxious and jigging.

Why is there the assumption that if you don't have a hot horse, then the horse is the opposite extreme-one that is lazy and needs constant prodding???????

None of my horses are that way. It is very possible to have the best of both worlds, -a horse that steps out, whether leaving home or returning, goes at the gait and speed you want, and on a loose rein. The horse requires zero prodding, but he also does not need to be held back, or starts to jig, not then concerned as to where he puts his feet. Might not be a big deal, other than being annoying on many trails, just riding through forestry, but try it on trails that are very narrow, high up, riding where there is no room for error, where a horse can go down just because he is not used to negotiating such a trail, let alone jigging When a horse jigs, you have lost him mentally.

I am also selective as to who I trail ride with, esp on a green horse, as horses feed off of each other, and I want the green horse to learn to be a good trail horse, without any holes. It is also why I ride all my horses out alone, before ever riding with other horses., as I want that horse to look to me as being his leader and source of security, not some other horse.

I rode two hot horses in the past, on trail rides, and not until I got older, raised better minded horses, did I really appreciate the difference.

One of those horses, was that ex stallion, who I both gamed and who had that bad experience. The other was his dam, that I bought off the track. She was Appaloosa running bred X TB

(Bright Tiger ApHC x Annie Duggin TB ) She must have had some bad experience on the track, as when I got her, she halter pulled, would flip over backwards, just being leg, if you just suddenly took hold of that lead shank, spent as much time rearing, spinning and spooking as going forward.

I did get her trail ridden, fixed her halter pulling, but I could never completely trust her on a trail. If a horse passed her, she was back in starting gate mode,. If she had to cross abog, forget about trying to guide her. She would panic and plunge in deeper. Never taught her to leg picket, as she would destroy herself, if she got hung up, thus she was always left loose in camp

Also, for me, trail rides are trail rides, and not cross country competitions, and that means you ride to the basic level of the least experienced horse, and/ or rider there.

MOst places we ride, there is not even trails that one could lope on. Some areas allow long trotting, but most times we go at a striding out walk. .My husband does not lope much, thus when I ride with him, I go at the gait he is happy with

If I ride with some friends, we always agree as to when we wish to lope some, and if the ground permits

Sure, when I ride out alone,a cross the fields at home, I have been known to lope along, doing flying lead changes, ect, but I always separate trail riding from arena/performance type work, and one of the worst things you can do, far as creating a good trail horse, is to go racing along with other horses

Also, there is a huge difference between a horse that is truly broke, does not go nuts when separated from buddies on the trail, asked to go on a slightly different route, and one that just goes along fine, as long as he can follow that horse up ahead.That is often the type of horse found in a dude string

When I am riidng a very steep climb, I don't take pictures, so I really can't post here examples of some of the climbs we do, climbs that take up to two hours or more to go from where we are camped, near a river, to above the treeline. Some of those trails zig zag up along switch backs, with places the climb is so steep, you just hope the horse has the 'hump' to make it to the next place it levels out enough for a breather. If a horse starts to lunge up, you are screwed!

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Nick, you should read 'evidence based Horsemanship, ' which completely de bunks that horsenality, far as how a horse's brain works

Dr. Stephen Peters, a neuropsychologist who specializes in brain functioning, teamed up with fifth-generation horseman and internationally known clinician Martin Black to write and collaborate on Evidence-Based Horsemanship. EBH, as it's commonly called, combines Peters' understanding of brain function with Black's keen observation of subtle horse behavior to create "best practices" in all areas of horse training and care.

http://www.evidence-basedhorsemanship.com/evidence-based-horsemanship.php

Somed more reading for you, Nick:

Researchers debunk myth of 'right-brained' and 'left-brained' personality traits Date: August 14, 2013 Source: University of Utah Health Sciences Summary: Neuroscientists now assert that there is no evidence within brain imaging that indicates some people are right-brained or left-brained. For years in popular culture, the terms left-brained and right-brained have come to refer to personality types, with an assumption that some people use the right side of their brain more, while some use the left side more. Researchers have debunked that myth through identifying specific networks in the left and right brain that process lateralized functions.

When I listened to Linda Parelli talk, she explained how she just came up with the idea of horsenality one night, and then presented it to hubby in the AM. Zero science behind it!

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My son, on the horse he rescued from slaughter, who when he got him, blanked out, and bucked out of fear.

Shown cooling off, after a hot trail ride in July, saddle and bridle removed, not to mention pants, lol, although he does have shorts on!

Appywaterhole.jpg

Some of the feral horses, in the foothills, on a logging road. Hubby has had to shoot over the head of some determined bachelor stud, when I was riding a mare. Yes, you don't want to loose amare to one of those studs, so another reason I prefer to ride with a bit, as you don't need other horses being ridden to act up, in order to have a wreak!

I rode Charlie out there in spring, not really knowing that she was in heat. She did great, leading the way, walking out on aloose rein, until we came to a group of wild horses, with those horses then galloping back and forth on a clearing ahead of us, and with the herd stallion coming towards up. CHarlie was like, 'he wants me, and my hormones are saying 'yes'!

Took me to having a little discussion,, getting her to counterflex by that area, leg yielding, having her get her mind back on me and some ingrained body response. Once a good distance down that trail, she once again settled down to walking out on a loose rein, verssu that "lipizzaner way of going!. I call her that, as when she is playing in the field, doing airs above ground, , wheeling, leaping, etc, being white and big, that is what hubby refers her as being!

bachelorstuds_zps4589588f.jpg

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Smilie ,love those pictures,are those wild horses mustang or just a mix of breeds?? yes you'd want total control over your horse out in that country,sounds a bit exciting have a wild stallion wanting to get to your mare...NOT.

Like that info on the horsenality i never bought that idea,i just train my horses to be supple and give to bit and move the different body parts so i have control of them. My daughter can ride her horse bitless but chooses to have a bit on him when we trail ride,we do run into the jerks on 4 wheelers who think its quite funny to try and scare our horses. Plus we do have deer pop out on us so there again want to be able to take away that head if needed,having a halter on for control doesn't always work out to good in a OMG situation.

Daughter rode horse out on trails once with just rope halter, we ran into a momma bear and her cubs, our horses were fine till that momma bear starting charging at us and making grunting noises. I got my horse under control with laterally flexing and leg yielding,daughter on other hand had a little bit of trouble getting her horse to flex laterally with only a rope halter on. Yes she got the job done and got her horse to pay attention to her and not the bear.

We very quietly rode off in other direction,with leg yielding and doing the lateral flexing we were already moving away from bear, and momma bear had stopped charging us at that point. So we ride with bits on the trail for the pure simple fact, we need to be able to take their heads away, and in a timely fashion. Yes daughters horse is soft and gives to bit reliable even in scary situations,BUT she found out that isn't so with JUST a halter on.

Our horses don't feed off of other peoples horses,and i like to ride the young horses out alone when first starting trail riding. Then those horses learn that i'am their leader not the horse they follow. I started both the horses we ride and both ride out alone never a fuss both walk out at speed we want. Just my horse gets hot & jiggy hoping if i don't race him he'll settle down some.

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Well, there is a big debate in Alberta, far as having those horses officially declared as 'wild', which thus means they belong, versus feral, where they do not fall under the protection of native species

There are some populations, just like your horses down south, that have been more isolated, thus don't have that influence of domestic ranch horses that escaped, tracing more directly to those Spanish horses brought from the Old world

We have some of those, in other parts of Alberta. The ones that are in our area, show an influence of those logging horses that were turned loose, at the beginning of the last century. Occasional escaped ranch horses were added

Having seen the fiasco , concerning the management of Wild horses south of our boarder, there is no exact plan, far as management. Last year, licences were given out for people to capture some of these horses, with those in support of letting those horses be, going to all kinds of trouble to foil these attempts

I read the book 'Wild Horse Annie', and it is a great read, as she did a lot in your country, far as more humane capture of your mustangs. A very good read, as she even became a public advocate, over coming facial disfigurement, due to childhood polio.. She became involved, after following a truck, with blood dripping out the back. Those horses were being transported to slaughter in very bad condition. It was common practice to shoot eyes out of stallions, rope them and tie tires to them, until they dropped, ect.

Nick, do what works for you, afterall, belief and placebo and anecdotal evidence works for many people, just don't try to promote them as facts, when there is no science behind them

I watched Linda Parelli during her presentation, which included clips of various horses, and with her diagnosing them as right brain, left brain and also as introverted versus extroverted. If you like smoke and mirrors- great. Some of us actually like scientific evidence!

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I don't promote anything as scientific or factual. you and I think very differently, think about that. I just know that animals react extremely well to homeopathic remedies, the race track is a thriving market for holistic practicioners, my dogs and horses react extremely well to all of it. animals don't need the "science" either to appreciate what works.

and by the way there's no "science" behind gravity either but happily we don't all just float off the planet.

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Sure, there is science to gravity!

To be clear, yes we do think different. I'm all open to ALTERNATIVE medicine, that is proven to work, after all, much of our conventional medicine comes from t here

There are also people that believe in animal communicators, past life,, and most can give what they consider as proof.

However, fact remains, there is a,million dollars up, if anyone can prove homeopathy really works, and no one has claimed that prize yet

You can state that animals can't have a placebo effect, which is true, but the perceptions of the owners can result in the same. There is also the progression to the mean, where a disease just runs it's course, no matter what you do, and the end results are the same, whether that homeopathy is used or not.

Far as the racehorse industry-give me a break! Horses are maintained and fed in such away that precludes longevity of soundness,, where blood doping is used, and where now the new rage is ozone therapy.

Google German New Medicine. that following also makes money, inspite of denying cancer even exists, that when a tumor erupts, it is a good thing, as the 'poison' is being expelled

I've seen patients die of breast cancer, doing alternative therapy, when in fact, their cancer was yet in a very treatable stage. People following latrile and coffee enemas, in Mexico, dying needlessly

Yes, we do think different. I will use alternative treatments, ALONG with mainstream, ones that show actual efficacy.

In fact, having recently been diagnosed with Macular degeneration I was not happy with the standard prognosis given by eye specialists, nor in Vitalux , the standard supplement just slowing down the process. I did some research,and found that some small clinical trails found that Saffron can slow and even reverse MC in the early stages

There is a difference in alternative medicine, just not patented, proven to work, and 'snake medicine' And,, if you think the latter is not big money, same a big pharma, think again!

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Ok since this thread is off topic now any way,i'll derail it more... Smilie, i thought your horse named charlie was a gelding until you said, horse was a mare. I just think of charlie being a males name had a gelding named charlie, obviously it can go either way.

Those stallions in that picture, looks like the big bay has some draft horse breeding...I'v read the book wild horse annie yes was a very good read.

Very interesting to read about your trips into the mountains,not sure i'd want to ride my current horse on those kind of trails,but sure is beautiful country. Does sound like a lot of fun, our trails are pretty much flat with some minor hills, now most of the trails we ride have been logged off.

Edited by Jazzystar66

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newton's theory collides with einsteĆ­n's. just a layman's observation.

really beautiful pictures, great horses, and an inspiration for aspiring trail riders everywhere.

sorry to hear about your diagnosis and I wish you all the best in your treatment.

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Thanks, Nick. ! Even if we have a debate going here, better then how dead thisboard has been, and I hope you don't take any difference in opinions as personal, as I enjoy both you and your input!

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