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Jubal, I'm so sorry.  We were there last April with our beloved gelding, Phoenix.  He had cushings and navicular.  I would bute him only on bad days (he didn't respond to anything else), but he still spent more time off his feet (laying down) or in obvious pain.  Finally the bute got to him and we had to stop it.  Without that last weapon against his pain, I had no choice but to put him down.  He was 25.  

The vet school took post mortem stem cell samples (with our permission).  Maybe research from his cells can help other horses. 

Edited by little cow

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Thanks, Heidi and LC. From what I've read about this, bute won't help him because his feet are not hurting due to inflammation, but due to the cold. And because there's no inflammation, it won't cause more damage to his feet--a good thing.

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 jubal  Just know I wish you the very best. & I hope there can be some relief found for your horse Jubal.  Best Wishes.  PD

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2 hours ago, jubal said:

Thanks, Heidi and LC. From what I've read about this, bute won't help him because his feet are not hurting due to inflammation, but due to the cold. And because there's no inflammation, it won't cause more damage to his feet--a good thing.

Oh gosh, navicular is so individual.  I'm sure you and your vet are doing everything you can. 

We tried many things over a six year period.  We couldn't pay for an MRI, but we tried most everything else, except nerving him.  Osphos was the last injection we tried.  Our vet also had us try dog arthritis medicine before we resorted to bute.  It works for some, but didn't do a thing for him.

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36 minutes ago, little cow said:

Oh gosh, navicular is so individual.  I'm sure you and your vet are doing everything you can. 

We tried many things over a six year period.  We couldn't pay for an MRI, but we tried most everything else, except nerving him.  Osphos was the last injection we tried.  Our vet also had us try dog arthritis medicine before we resorted to bute.  It works for some, but didn't do a thing for him.

LC, Jubal doesn't have navicular. I can't tell from your post if you thought he did. He has cold induced laminitis.

I had a mare who was on bute for so long that it totally destroyed her digestive system. In the end, I had to put her down. Jubal has had it and it gives him diarrhea, so I avoid it. So far his digestive system is the strongest thing about him. He's never had colic in the twelve years I've had him (and never missed a meal.)

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Sounds like the only hope is warmer weather, so I am sending prayers and good thoughts to you hoping that the weather warms up so Jubal will not be in pain. Take care.

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Thank you Magic and PD. I'm trying to work out how to get him into a heated space when it's very cold. My sister says I should build him a stall attached to the house, LOL. I've fantasized about that many times when I've  had to trudge to the barn in bad weather.

Edited by jubal

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Jubal what about a stall with radiant heat floor.   Heating in cement floor & would only have to put it in one stall.

Painting the second coat. One room left then wallpaper removal time.

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I don't know if that would work, RRW. I don't know if it is dependent on the ambient temp or just his feet. I know I would need a new electric service for the barn. It's way too weak now. It's a good idea, though.

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Jubal you and your horse have been on my mind a lot. I hope the weather warms up and your horse gets better.

 

I nearly had a stroke today....see picture. Other than that, I returned the rental today. Insurance paid off the loan on my wrecked car and I got the check with what was left over. Gonna use that for a down payment. My bank approved me for a 10k loan so now Im all set to go car shopping. 

20180109_114330.jpg

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ACK!  Ooh, that pic makes my stomach tighten!

I want to wrap Jubal's horse in an electric blanket for his feet.  I wish we had more affordable options for their housing and care.

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19 hours ago, jubal said:

LC, Jubal doesn't have navicular. I can't tell from your post if you thought he did. He has cold induced laminitis.

I had a mare who was on bute for so long that it totally destroyed her digestive system. In the end, I had to put her down. Jubal has had it and it gives him diarrhea, so I avoid it. So far his digestive system is the strongest thing about him. He's never had colic in the twelve years I've had him (and never missed a meal.)

Sorry about that.  I was noting the Cushings being similar and forgot his other issue was laminitis, not navicular.  

His laminitis has an insulin component, doesn't it?  How is that handled?  Morgans tend to be easy keepers so we give our old girl low starch senior.  Does your boy need a special feed to help with insulin control?  

Edited by little cow

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QueenBAW, I think worrying you is an Appy thing, isn't it?  Probably waited until you were watching....  ("Heh, heh, watch this!").  :crazy:

Edited by little cow

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5 hours ago, little cow said:

Sorry about that.  I was noting the Cushings being similar and forgot his other issue was laminitis, not navicular.  

His laminitis has an insulin component, doesn't it?  How is that handled?  Morgans tend to be easy keepers so we give our old girl low starch senior.  Does your boy need a special feed to help with insulin control?  

Jubal gets only hay which I have tested before I buy it. He eats from a slow feed net and I weigh his hay portion. He gets a magnesium supplement to help with the metabolic issue. He had this same thing last year which the vet thought was bruising but it was pretty apparent after awhile, it wasn't. It was off and on and went on for weeks. He drank double the amount of water he usually drank and I suspected Cushings. But we had a very mild winter last year, and  the lameness was never this bad. It cleared up completely after about six weeks. So did the water issue. He shed out normally last spring, so I didn't get him tested. But I will in the spring. I don't know if Pergolide will help with this or not.

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Jubal, there is a herb, Jiaogulan, that is given to horses with laminitis and Cushing's. It is to help with circulation. I have never used it but it may be something for you to research.

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Jubal I wish you the best at finding a way to help your boy.

So glad bought the wallpaper steamer.  Already got one room done.  But what a mess.

IMG_20180110_124949.jpg

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So the temperature is 55 and I took Jubal's blanket off. I went back just now to change his wraps and clean his boots. While the boots were off, I walked him up and down the aisleway. No noticeable limp on the mats. This is the strangest thing. He's still drinking too much though. He drained a five gallon bucket between 9:00 and 2:00. And his manure is liquid. Eww!  We have one more warm day before back in the deep freeze. At least he'll get a respite.

Danyel, I read that jiaogulan might help but I didn't find it anywhere as a supplement. Do you know of anyone who sells it for horses?

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Jubal, you can order it from Uckele Health and Nutrition. 5lb. bag is $79.95. That amount should last quite a while. 

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jubal,   Glad your horse is showing some improvement,  hope he continues to show signs of improvement. Best Wishes. PD

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1 hour ago, Danyel said:

Jubal, you can order it from Uckele Health and Nutrition. 5lb. bag is $79.95. That amount should last quite a while. 

Thanks, Danyel. I'm afraid to spend that much without knowing if he'll eat it. I've also been reading Dr. Kellon's opinion about it and trial results. It could backfire, from what I've read.

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Just now, jubal said:

Thanks, Danyel. I'm afraid to spend that much without knowing if he'll eat it. I've also been reading Dr. Kellon's opinion about it and trial results. It could backfire, from what I've read.

I read that article too. You might mention it to your vet, for his opinion. Glad Jubal is better today. Hope he stays that way.

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The test for Cushings can be tricky and expensive.  I think it would be easier to take a horse into a clinic to get the timing right, rather the multiple farm calls.  It is most effective to diagnose early.  Early treatment is much better than waiting for it to become obvious. 

Our horse was showing all the signs by the time we figured it out.  He never got a thick winter coat, so I missed the most important sign of all.  He just shed his unimpressive winter fuzz later and later each year.  When we asked about testing, our vet told us to treat our horse for it anyway, because the test wasn't really helpful by that time.  We didn't use peroglide.  There was some wrangling over using it for horses, but I think you can get it now.  It can be pricey.  I think you do need a test to prescribe it, though, but that's up to your vet.  

Edited by little cow

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