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wolfhaven

Do I or Don't I?

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So if I were to visit a city that has a mandatory $15 minimum wage, which is considered a living wage, do I tip my server?  My understanding is servers were tipped because their base pay was lower than minimum.  If this is no longer the case why tip?  

 

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Very good point. To add to that, why would you be expected to tip for lousy service?

I'm thinking if they still expect to be tipped, the service had better be exemplary.

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I think employers of food servers were exempted from paying minimum wage to servers who were  tipped back when I tended bar. But it may be different now. 

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I think people need a steady wage and at least some finacial security. I am not a fan of tipping and I have worked as a waitress and many of these restaurants owners and managers are not the most honest bunch. I got burned far more often then I care to remember working as a waitress. Tips are not reliable and owners and managers always have an excuse for not covering waiters being shorted on tips and usually blame the waiter. So I am all for reliable wages and I think $15 an hour is reasonable pay for that work. 

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Does anyone else remember when, if your regular job didn't cover everything, you got another part time job to help and cut back on non-essentials, rather than demand you get paid more for the one job? I know I did it.

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While I agree with this

 

Quote

I think people need a steady wage and at least some finacial security

you shouldn't expect it to be automatic, or handed to you. You are supposed to earn your way into it.

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2 hours ago, noponies said:

Does anyone else remember when, if your regular job didn't cover everything, you got another part time job to help and cut back on non-essentials, rather than demand you get paid more for the one job? I know I did it.

Except now it's people holding a full time job and another part time job just to cover basic expenses.  People just do not seem to understand that the cost of things are getting higher and pay is getting lower. 

Just out of curiosity the other day I checked what the rent was costing at my old apartment. I paid $650 a month in 2011. It is now just shy of $1000. Thank goodness I own now but I try not to forget what its like to be under that sort of financial pressure. 

And as for it "being handed to you". Sorry but its a job and people should always be given a fair and dependable wage for any job they are doing. Restaurants and bars have been taking advantage of employees for a long time. The work load is heavy and not worth it IMO if I have to rely on the whims of others. 

And I just wanted to add that the worst tip I got was from a Sunday church group that left scripture. Sundays sucked for tipping. It was also a good time to schedule wait staff that supervisors were retaliating against for whatever reason. 

Edited by TigerLilly

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I am talking things like rent/mortgage, insurances, taxes, food, clothing, transportation public or personal and hygiene, water, trash, electric, heat, phone and Internet access. 

These things add up. I can tell you that August was an expensive month for me. $7000 just in taxes, and insurances and transportation. None of it is fancy high end stuff either, just basic run of the mill plans. And I shop around every 6 months. Now if I were working full time at McDonald's I could never afford that with my other necessary expenses such as food, electric, clothing ect. 

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I don't believe I have ever HAD $7000 a month. More like $1700 a month. I have a car payment and a mortgage too. Most people spend way more on clothing than they need, too. You can have nice clothes and not buy name brand. And there's nice stuff at thrift shops. Really, how many outfits of clothing do you actually need? How many shoes? Internet access was always considered a luxury til just a very few years ago, and more people than not still believe it to be so. Food? Try home cooking instead of take-out fast food or prepackaged crap. Costs half as much, but you gotta put a little effort into it.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, noponies said:

I don't believe I have ever HAD $7000 a month. More like $1700 a month. I have a car payment and a mortgage too. Most people spend way more on clothing than they need, too. You can have nice clothes and not buy name brand. And there's nice stuff at thrift shops. Really, how many outfits of clothing do you actually need? How many shoes? Internet access was always considered a luxury til just a very few years ago, and more people than not still believe it to be so. Food? Try home cooking instead of take-out fast food or prepackaged crap. Costs half as much, but you gotta put a little effort into it.

 

 

 

 

Well we bought this house last year and they did a new assessment on it so we had no idea what our tax bill was going to be. So a big chunk of that was just taxes. And in the same week we had car insurance, life insurance, house insurance and vehicle registration because of my birthday. We pay all of our stuff for the year because it saves money to do it that way. And someone who cant pay it all upfront is typically paying more. It's expensive to be poor:(

 

Edit: $6000 not $7000. 

Edited by TigerLilly

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I have been poor all my life. I've become quite good at it. It really is amazing how many of those "needs" are actually wants, when the chips are down.

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   Each area has a different cost of living, & if you are going to live where the higher paying jobs are, you are going to have higher taxes & expenses. So when it comes to expenses in different area, it is hard to compare apples to oranges. Also you have to consider where Tiger Lilly lives was hit hard by the last recession, & is just now  getting back on it's feet. Then also someone at city hall does a poor job spending tax money. Just saying there are many things to consider.  As for being poor, I've seen poor people that have contentment & love in their families & communities, that can't be bought with money.   PD

 

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9 hours ago, Proud Dad said:

 

   Each area has a different cost of living, & if you are going to live where the higher paying jobs are, you are going to have higher taxes & expenses. So when it comes to expenses in different area, it is hard to compare apples to oranges. Also you have to consider where Tiger Lilly lives was hit hard by the last recession, & is just now  getting back on it's feet. Then also someone at city hall does a poor job spending tax money. Just saying there are many things to consider.  As for being poor, I've seen poor people that have contentment & love in their families & communities, that can't be bought with money.   PD

 

Yes PD that is very true. There are surrounding areas that look like ghost towns. In fact, my current trainer lives in one. I could not believe the conditions of the homes people were living in over there. Those people have very little in the way of wants and highly doubt they can meet their needs. 

And I will say that a cell phone is absolutely a need these days. Phone companies won't even fix downed lines in poorer areas out here anymore. I have tried and tried to get them to fix the line going down my dad's road for years. They will not do it. He is on SSI disability and has a heart condition. He needs a phone. 

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I  agree cellphones are necessary these days, but not $200+ smartphones. I have a nice pay-as-you-go flip phone that cost quite a bit less than $50. I can call real well with it.

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  When I was younger & our children were small, I always tried to put their needs first & mine last, 33 years, I got back into horses, & that was a main expense, I traded my labo,r with friend that was dairy farmer for hay & grain.  Of course when I got the horse, I found I could also raise steers, for our meat, & raised a garden for some of our food. I cut firewood to heat my house, & still do.  But at 68 & 70 years old, we treat ourselves a bit more than we used to. We've both worked hard to help our children & granchildren. We've been lucky to have good jobs over the years, that provided us also with a good retirement. I feel fortunate, & have lived the American Dream.  PD

   

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25 minutes ago, Proud Dad said:

  When I was younger & our children were small, I always tried to put their needs first & mine last, 33 years, I got back into horses, & that was a main expense, I traded my labo,r with friend that was dairy farmer for hay & grain.  Of course when I got the horse, I found I could also raise steers, for our meat, & raised a garden for some of our food. I cut firewood to heat my house, & still do.  But at 68 & 70 years old, we treat ourselves a bit more than we used to. We've both worked hard to help our children & granchildren. We've been lucky to have good jobs over the years, that provided us also with a good retirement. I feel fortunate, & have lived the American Dream.  PD

   

I'm not sure the American dream is real anymore. It was, I do know that. 

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TL, The American Dream, no doubt is different for different people. My wife & I have had a good life, we've had our trials along the way, but each one we over came together, & each was a teachable moment in our lives. Trials will humble a person, & when humbled, your eyes are opened to the plights of others.

noponies,  I agree that if you don't work in life, it is hard to move forward.  My wife & I were lucky to have good parents that gave good advice & encoiuragement, when we needed it.  It is what I try to give our daughters & grandchildren now.  PD

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I don't think any of us "oldies" know what the younger people are facing today. They don't have the safety nets that were available to us. And the whole focus today is on the corporation, not the worker. Look at all the incentives given to corporations to locate in a given locale. That was unheard of when I was younger. Back then, corporations were expected to pay their taxes and be good "citizens."  Nowadays, they are handed everything they ask for, while workers have to beg for benefits. Corporate loyalty to workers is a thing of the past. I'm glad I don't have to face the work environment today.

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I know that I often worked 2 jobs to stay ahead, and didn't finally have much to show for it til I was almost 50. A little 4 room bungalow. paid for. Don't remember there being much in the way of safety nets. No food stamps or any of the other things available now. Health care was whatever you could pay for, no insurance for it. No life insurance either. The state can cremate me when I die. Being dead means I get to stop worrying about it. :P

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Most companies paid health insurance back in the sixties through the eighties. I worked for a race track, a bank and two bars that paid health insurance. After that I worked for a school system until I retired. When I started teaching, my health insurance was fully paid with an extra option of eye care or dental care. By the time I retired, in 2005, the health insurance wasn't so generous. I know tutors whose salary barely covered their insurance costs. That's what I mean about corporations. If they could afford insurance in the sixties, but not in the nineties, somebody was soaking up the difference and it wasn't the workers. The healthcare industry, for one, is out of control. Pharmaceuticals is another.

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How much was a worker paid per hour in the 60"s? How much would that same worker be paid now? Don't you suppose that made a difference?

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I lived through it and you probably did too. But here's the data.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisconover/2012/12/22/the-cost-of-health-care-1958-vs-2012/#3a161e794910

"What if we applied this kind of analysis to health care? The results are quite interesting. In 1958, per capita health expenditures were $134. This may seem astonishingly small, but it actually includes everything, inclusive of care paid for by government or private health insurers. A worker earning the average wage in 1958 ($1.98) would have had to work 118 hours—nearly 15 days--to cover this expense. By 2012, per capita health spending had climbed to $8,953. At the average wage, a typical worker would have to work 467 hours—about 58 days."

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And that latter bit is no fault of the employers'. Its just as un-affordable for them as the rest of us. If you want to lay blame, go after Big Pharma and their inflated pricing for all things medical.

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25 minutes ago, noponies said:

And that latter bit is no fault of the employers'. Its just as un-affordable for them as the rest of us. If you want to lay blame, go after Big Pharma and their inflated pricing for all things medical.

I believe I did when this whole conversation started.

 

3 hours ago, jubal said:

Most companies paid health insurance back in the sixties through the eighties. I worked for a race track, a bank and two bars that paid health insurance. After that I worked for a school system until I retired. When I started teaching, my health insurance was fully paid with an extra option of eye care or dental care. By the time I retired, in 2005, the health insurance wasn't so generous. I know tutors whose salary barely covered their insurance costs. That's what I mean about corporations. If they could afford insurance in the sixties, but not in the nineties, somebody was soaking up the difference and it wasn't the workers. The healthcare industry, for one, is out of control. Pharmaceuticals is another.

 

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