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little cow

Has anyone not been sexually harassed?

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If you were, how did you handle it?  I have some stories because I worked in mostly male-dominated fields.  One example was when a co-worker grabbed my wrists and pulled me towards him.  I spun him around, slammed him against the wall, and told him to never touch me again.  He was bigger, but I was angrier.  He never bothered me again.   I was young and didn't report it because I needed that job.  

If you've never been harassed (whether you are male or female), well, good!   

Have you ever stopped someone else from being harassed?

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I've been around so long that it wasn't called sexual harassment in the workplace. They were just jerks that we warned others about. I quit one good job because one of the jerks was made my boss. That said, I've never had someone in a job actually lay hands on me. I'm sure my reaction would have been the same as yours.

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I have been, many times. One of the first was when I was in my early 20's. I was a waitress at a truck stop. A trucker grab my butt when my back was to him. I wheeled around and told him never to touch me again. The manager was close enough to hear and see what happened. She called me into her office and told me if I ever talked to one of her good customers like that again, she would fire me!!

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I was present when my boyfriend was being sexually harassed outside a mall when we were 15 or 16. 

My Mother had dropped us off with my younger sister and his younger brother to see a movie.  We were waiting for her outside where she was going to come pick us up.  Two older girls (late teens or early 20s) exited the mall and waited at the curb near us.  When their attention turned to us they began speaking to each other, in voices we could clearly hear, in a sexually explicit and speculative manner about my bf.  

We didn't know what to do.  They were older, we had younger kids with us and we needed to stay there for my Mom to pick us up.  We decided to not go back into the building but walk away down the sidewalk, where my Mom would still be able to see us when she drove up, and hope the girls didn't follow us to continue their harassment.  As we were walking away, a car picked up those girls and we were able to return to our designated waiting spot.  It definitely put a damper on our day.

Older me thinking about this, I'm still not sure I'd advise younger me to confront them because I still don't know what could have been said to shut them up, but I'd have probably suggested going back inside the mall.  If the girls followed, then I'd recommend going to the nearest business and finding an adult.  If not to tell (what is an employee going to be able to do, it isn't like finding a teacher at a school) at least in the hopes the girls would halt their behavior around adult witnesses in positions of authority.

I do count myself lucky that this is the extent of my personal experience with sexual harassment.

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    In my opinion it takes a bully & a coward to harass a girl or a woman,  I think it is great, that women now feel empowered to come forward , maybe less of this will happened in the future. I have 3 grandaughters  from 11 to 15 years old,  their futures are bright,  but these kinds of incidents can do a number on a young person emotionally, & destroy a bright future.  I have no tolorence for boys that think they are men that do that take advantage of others.  Just glad I'm not the judge, & someone else is.  PD

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Thanks for posting this.  I worked for the oil and gas industry for 12 years in my 20’s.  On one occasion I was invited to dinner and to spend the night at the home of an employee of an oil concern and his blind wife because he and I were going to the same meeting the next morning.  He insisted on holding my hand the entire time.    I never reported it.    I didn’t want to hurt the wife.

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I have no tolorence for boys that think they are men that do that take advantage of others. 

What a succinct way of stating this.

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I have also always worked in male dominated jobs. I was raised to stand my ground though and, really, never had any real trouble with the 
guys". I had no trouble making someone back off and I had no trouble saying something when the conversation got inappropriate.

Did I have guys come on to me? Yep. Did I have guys touch when not invited to do so? Yep. Did I put a stop to those things? Yep, with a quickness and firmness that could not be misunderstood. 

Personally, I think women are as bad as men these days. A little power/notoriety/money and folks think they can do what they want, even if their attentions are not welcome, and get away with it. Unfortunately, our broken criminal justice system lets those with the gold make the rules. Until a person is not longer able to buy themselves out of legal trouble, this will not change. 

 

 

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Sadly I do not know a woman "people I know personally" that has not been sexually harassed or abused. Me, my Aunt and her daughter-in-law discussed this one day. They had multiple stories. My aunt being in her late 50's could remember things that happened to her, her cousins and even my own father. She said back then people just kept it a secret and did not talk about it. I could think of 7 men off the top of my head that did or said inappropriate things to me. First sexual assault for me happened at age 7. My mother had a boyfriend who was a Vietnam Veteran. He was also a pedophile. He was later convicted of molesting his own daughters:(

I think it is important to not keep it a secret. It's a problem and not just a problem for females. 

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I was assaulted for several years by an older half brother.  I had to fight him off or hide in the park to hide until my mom or oldest brother came home.  The alternative was to run straight to my room after school and brace the door with my feet (and my back against the bed) until he went away.  He used a kitchen knife under the door to try to dislodge my feet.  It remained a secret until we were all grown up.  He is the favored brother in my other thread, so my fear of rejection by my mom, if I said anything, was real.   I had no one to turn to because my mom worked and my oldest brother would come home late because of sports or drama.  We had no sense of community.  My mom kept us away from social clubs or church (she's an atheist), so there were no 'trusted adults' in my life.  We were effectively isolated.  I lived in fear of being alone with my half brother for several years.  It was only after he shows dirty movies to me and my best friend at the time, that he was busted.  No one knew what he tried to do to us after wards.  That friend, understandably, was forbidden to be around me after that incident. In fact, I quickly became a pariah at school.  It was good that we moved away a few years later.  The half brother stopped abusing me, but I never felt comfortable around him again.  Looking back, I sincerely wish my friend's mom had reported it.  I spoke with my old friend a few years ago and apologized for my brother's actions.  I had felt so guilty for so long.  She had never blamed me in the first place, but I had felt responsible, like I should have protected her from him.  Not that I could have, but that's how you feel.  

It is still awkward around my half brother.  My family all knows now what happened, but though my mom felt genuinely sad when I told her, she never confronted him.  I don't even know if he knows that I told the family.  I have never spoken about it to him directly, but I worked through forgiving him.  I do forgive him.  He is a different person now.  There was a lot of physical abuse in our house growing up.  We were pitted against each other in a way.  It was a sad place.  Forgiving my mom has been harder because her physical and mental abuse lasted so long. 

There is no accident that my oldest brother and I live on the East Coast and my half brother and mom live on the West Coast.  My oldest brother went through the same type of guilt that I had felt for my friend, when he found out about what had happened.  He felt he should have protected me.  He is a good man now and has a good wife.  They are always welcome in our home. 

Visits with my half brother and mom, however,  are rare.  My husband and I would never leave our son alone with either one of them.  It is that saem half brother and his wife that have guilted my dad into paying for their repeated IVF/surrogacy attempts.  The irony about his entitlement is that my mom divorced my dad when I was a baby.  My dad never laid a finger on us.  We lived with my mom and she was the abuser.  She had my oldest with my dad, then cheated on him and had my half brother.  My dad put his name on the birth certificate and my mom told him never to tell.  Then, he forgave her and they had me.  That was too much for her, so she divorced him.  It's the weirdest thing.  It was too much that he forgave her and tried to make it right.  So, she ended up with a drunken a-- boyfriend for many years as we were growing up.  That was the house from he-- in which all the abuse took place.  

Wow, I wrote a book.  Maybe it's bad that I am an early riser and the first one up, lol!

Chocolate chip cookies with extra chocolate chips, if you made it through all that mess.

Edited by little cow

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TIgerlilly, I cannot imagine an encounter with a confirmed pedophile.  I hope that he served a long sentence.  They seem to be released early from prison 'for their own protection' (you can thank the ACLU for that) far too often.  Some countries don't prosecute them at all.  Just counsel the suspect and victim and that's it.  I hope Germany stopped that nonsense.  I say they don't deserve special treatment.  Throw them in jail.  They betrayed us all by preying on the most vulnerable members of society and don't deserve to walk free ever again.  

Now, when men assault women, whether it was a stranger attacking or a boyfriend, is treated differently.  I don't think that is the way to handle it properly.  Abuse is abuse.  It is scarier for the public when a stranger attacks a women (or men) but they should not get a pass on violence simply because they knew their victim.  Some men are dreams come true until they get you where they want you.  

I served nine years in the military and could never let my guard down.  I never drank more than a beer on liberty and always returned to the ship at night when we were at a liberty port.  That was the only way to avoid circumstances which might turn into an assault.  I was so careful.  Other women didn't and I tried to help them, when I could.  But, they didn't want to leave the bar when I did and they were not drinking much when I left.  If something happened, I didn't know about it.  I do know that many watched out for each other and came back in pairs.  There were still little things that happened to me, despite my efforts.  Like the helo pilot that came to the bridge when I was OOD and purposely elbowed me in the chest, hard, when he walked by.  It was a darkened bridge at night, so no one saw it.  I told myself it was an accident and it was too dark to see who it was, anyway.  I was busy driving the ship.  There was no time to stop.  Now, I wish I would have punched him. 

These men who hate women in the military will always find a way to let you know they don't approve of your presence.  My first boss on my first ship told me straight up what he thought of women in the military.  I worked so hard, but he never changed.  My division went from the worst on the ship to the best, but he praised the other junior officer continually and snubbed me repeatedly, both on fitreps and in front of the Captain.  Our first CO was awesome.  He saw right through it.  It was known among the officers that he was gay, but no one cared.  He handled the ship very well and he gave me a better shot, despite my butthead boss, so he has my gratitude.  We protected him against rumors.  I hope he went on to have a great career.

Edited by little cow

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38 minutes ago, jubal said:

Maybe, if we elect women next year, we can stop some of this egregious stuff.

Oh women can be hard on other women and men too. I had a supervisor call out two women at work for sexually harassing other women and constantly starting drama in the work place. 

I really think it's a broader cultural issue and some would even argue that it is in our nature. 

A few months ago and young woman was walking home from the bar. She had drank heavily and was possibly drugged. In the course of one house she had contact with 7 men. 6 our of 7 of those men raped her. Only one man helped her to safety. 

People were quick to place the blame on her. She was drunk, she should have been smarter, what was she wearing, she was promiscuous. But what if she was not drunk? What if she passed out due to a medical condition? Or had a seizure? She is still just as vulnerable and the odds are clearly not in her favor. 

 

Edited by TigerLilly

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Yes, I hate the 'blame the drunk woman' scenario.  No, men get drunk, too.  That's called "having a problem with alcohol", not, "I should be a victim".  Men should be gentlemen all the time.  Not just with certain women.  You don't get to pick and choose who deserves to be treated with dignity and respect.  We are have inherent dignity as human beings. 

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At the risk of being flamed, grilled, condemned and, a variety of others, by at least one person here, I have a different take on it.

 I'll preface this by saying, I do NOT advocate rape, sexual assault or, unwanted advances/touching, by either sex and, a rapist should, definitely be punished.

 Here goes.  I have known plenty of women who would flaunt themselves in men's faces... drunk and sober.... crawl all over them, dress and, talk provocatively, then expect nothing to happen?  It isn't the fault of the men, really, if that behavior leads to sex and, feeling guilty the next morning, the women files rape charges against them....  Don't say, "well, if she was drunk, she couldn't give consent,". because, chances are, they were both drunk and, I know it's the popular opinion but, a man can also be raped.

 The reason, I think, the man is always the bad guy, is, women have always been precieved as the weaker sex and, if rape was involved, it must be the man who did it.

 I knew this woman, who loved playing the 'helpless female' role.....oh, she just couldn't do anything for her lil ole self, then, she'd act all shy and giggle....she was married, but, wouldn't you know it, her husband was a jack***, according to her, so, she practically had men lined up for a chance to help her....she was also sleeping with one of them, we all knew it.

 Women use men, just as much as men use women....I've never seen a man going around half dressed, flirting with multiple women, I have seen it the other way around.....then, it's always the man who gets blamed and, the woman who gets sympathy when it all goes south.

 Yes, I do know there are women who have been sexually assaulted, who weren't dressed provocatively, who weren't flirting and, those men should have the book thrown at them, but, the other scenarios, I actually don't place the entire blame on the man.

 What about women who sleep their way to the top?  The actress who sleeps with the boss, for a part? There are just as many unscrupulous women out there, as men.

 A male friend of mine once asked me, " if a woman can push her ***** in my face and, it's not considered sexual harassment, why is it, if I say, nice rack?"

 He's got a point...... double standards....?

Edited by equicrzy

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28 minutes ago, little cow said:

Yes, I hate the 'blame the drunk woman' scenario.  No, men get drunk, too.  That's called "having a problem with alcohol", not, "I should be a victim".  Men should be gentlemen all the time.  Not just with certain women.  You don't get to pick and choose who deserves to be treated with dignity and respect.  We are have inherent dignity as human beings. 

 And, women shouldn't be ladies, all the time ? They get a pass if they're drunk?

 

 Too many double standards where women and men, behaving themselves, are concerned.

 Women want to be treated equally, they want to fight with men, in the military, yet, they still want special consideration in certain areas.

I am a woman, but, not a feminist, I can't stand women who use their sexuality to get what they want from men and, then complain about unwanted advances later.....by the same token, I can't stand men who use women as their personal property, thinking they can do whatever they want.

Edited by equicrzy

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If a woman acts that way in a workplace, it is sexual harassment.  

If she acts like that in a bar or club, she is looking for attention from men.  Perhaps even consensual sex.  That is the key right there.  Consent is when she agrees and he agrees.  At no point does either party want to stop.  She is not looking for someone to force themselves on her.  She doesn't deserve to have someone force themselves on her.  Rape is about control and hate.  It has nothing to do with love or even mutually agreed upon sex.  

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If a man is drunk, he doesn't deserve to be assaulted either.  He has a drinking problem.  Women around should definitely behave like ladies and not take advantage of him.  A drunk person shouldn't get their wallet stolen or get beat up either.  It's still a crime, even if the person is drunk.  When someone is helpless, people should be kind, not take advantage of the situation.  

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Oh yes, there women who use sex to get further.  That casting couch is real in Hollywood.  But the casting couch was invented by those in power.  They made that a requirement for getting the job.  That is sick.

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A male friend of mine once asked me, " if a woman can push her ***** in my face and, it's not considered sexual harassment, why is it, if I say, nice rack?"

That is sexual harassment. If a person says "stop" or "leave me alone" anything after that becomes harassment. But our society labels a man weak for even hinting at being sexually harassed or assaulted. It's wrong and should change. 

Quote

 

 I knew this woman, who loved playing the 'helpless female' role.....oh, she just couldn't do anything for her lil ole self, then, she'd act all shy and giggle....she was married, but, wouldn't you know it, her husband was a jack***, according to her, so, she practically had men lined up for a chance to help her....she was also sleeping with one of them, we all knew it.

This is a non-issue. What happens between consenting adults is really nobodies business. It doesn't really have anything to do with assault or harassment.

Quote

I've never seen a man going around half dressed, flirting with multiple women, I have seen it the other way around.....then, it's always the man who gets blamed and, the woman who gets sympathy when it all goes south.

What is the deal with clothes? What a woman wears does not give anyone ownership over her body. Nobody is saying a man or woman cannot admire in a respectful manner. But labeling her fair game for assault and harassment is wrong. 

Edited: a quote that did not need to be there.

Edited by TigerLilly

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What is the deal with clothes? What a woman wears does not give anyone ownership over her body. Nobody is saying a man or woman cannot admire in a respectful manner. But labeling her fair game for assault and harassment is wrong. 

Edited: a quote that did not need to be there.

A man in a blue uniform is often perceived to be a policeman. And a man in a red fuzzy suit is often called Santa Clause. Clothing has a great deal to do with how you are perceived. If you are going to dress like a hooker and flaunt yourself, you really shouldn't be surprised if someone thinks you are a hooker looking for action. However, I do agree "NO" means stop right there.

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Regardless of how a woman dresses, men should ask, not force.  It is true that how you dress could signal you would like to be asked, but not necessarily.  Some women just like to turn heads.  That might annoy other women, but it isn't illegal, well, except in some countries.  

Edited by little cow

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Do you really think its at all fair to put that ALL on men? Do women not have some responsibility here? It STILL takes 2, you know.

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     I can agree that a man should never force himself on a woman,  the type of dress shouldn't make a difference, but can, if they meet in a bar where both have been drinking,  & affects their judgement, it could cause a man to get to do something he might regret later.  But as a hole sexual assault is more about power  over a woman than the sex it's self.  Neither is acceptable.

  But to put the shoe on the other foot, there are women that will entrap men, to muddy their name, or blackmail them for some other reason.  Granted they are few, but do exist. PD

 

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1 hour ago, TigerLilly said:

That is sexual harassment. If a person says "stop" or "leave me alone" anything after that becomes harassment. But our society labels a man weak for even hinting at being sexually harassed or assaulted. It's wrong and should change. 

This is a non-issue. What happens between consenting adults is really nobodies business. It doesn't really have anything to do with assault or harassment.

What is the deal with clothes? What a woman wears does not give anyone ownership over her body. Nobody is saying a man or woman cannot admire in a respectful manner. But labeling her fair game for assault and harassment is wrong. 

Edited: a quote that did not need to be there.

 I didn't label her ' fair game ', but, why dress that way if you don't intend to catch the attention of the opposite sex?.....in other words, don't put it on display, if you don't want men pressing their noses against the window.

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42 minutes ago, little cow said:

Regardless of how a woman dresses, men should ask, not force.  It is true that how you dress could signal you would like to be asked, but not necessarily.  Some women just like to turn heads.  That might annoy other women, but it isn't illegal, well, except in some countries.  

 A woman is quite capable of turning heads, without exposing herself. 

 If you want to merely be admired, there's no need for 'peek-a-boo' clothing.... women are more than breasts and legs.

 

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25 minutes ago, equicrzy said:

 A woman is quite capable of turning heads, without exposing herself. 

 If you want to merely be admired, there's no need for 'peek-a-boo' clothing.... women are more than breasts and legs.

 

You and I understand this, but some women, for whatever reasons, flaunt what they have.  Our society encourages this behavior through ads, movies, and tv shows that treat women like objects.  This goes back to your casting couch.  Scantily clad women roaming the streets aren't the big issue.  Society is the issue.  Too many women raised in a society that over values a women's body rather than her brain.  yes, I do think more women in high places could change things, but the resistance is powerful from men.  An objectified woman has limited power over her own destiny.  We know this innately, but women use what they have because they are not taught to trust their own brains.  They are not valued enough for other things.  

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