little cow

NRA versus Gun Control

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Glad to see people stepping away from the NRA.  Finally. 

Our governor down here isn't my favorite, but he is working on gun control measures now, finally.  Our state reps are doing the same.  I hope they push it harder than the Republican governor.   One measure is for police in every school.  That would have made a difference in Parkland if the deputy hadn't frozen up.  I am not going to dwell on that.  It happens, I suppose.  Lots of other measures for mentally unstable people and guns.  Also, raising the buying age to 21.  Perhaps 25 would be better.  I don't know.  

Mental health is the biggest issue.  We have crazy people off their meds and ready to hurt someone that walk our streets.  We have violent, unstable teens that parent can't control.  We need facilities for people.  We have too much crazy walking about.  We have too much crazy in jail.  I think the level is about 80% in jail.  Jail doesn't help them.  They get out to do it again because their mental stability isn't what determines their release.  

Arming teachers is insane.  Typical NRA backed solution.  More guns!  Morons.  That is someone that doesn't understand the inside of a classroom.  I substitute teach and while I am a sharpshooter (USN), I don't have time to play Annie Oakley.  I have kids to protect and get to a safe place.  If I try to pull off a Rambo move, who is going to keep the kids quiet and safe?   And our older kids?  The teens that are actually stronger and bigger than many teachers?  Heck, most of our middle school kids are taller than me!  The high school teacher should carry a gun?  Really?  Stupid, stupid, stupid people suggesting teachers carry guns.  

Edited by little cow

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I was a teacher. I wouldn't be able to shoot another human. I've only shot a gun once in my life, a revolver. I was shooting a snake. It took me 7 shots to hit it.

Rick Scott has seen the writing on the wall. His challenger, Gwen Graham, has been meeting with groups all over FL, is popular and has common sense solutions to problems.

I'm so proud of the teens who are taking this fight to the adults. And they are so articulate and determined. It renews my faith in public education. 

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   Like many I see a need for some gun control,  & it is good that some business places are distancing themselves from the NRA, that said the NRA has become more radical over the years, if the NRA would police it'self  with common sense background checks & regulations, on assault weapons, then the government would never bother them.  PD

 

 

Edited by Proud Dad

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Big businesses like Avis, Budget, Truecar, Norton and MetLife have discontinued NRA member discounts.  This is part of what has to happen to stop the insanity.  

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Some gun control - yes. Background checks should be able to show mental instability and increasing age. PA, though unsure if it is all states, requires you to be 21 for a hand gun. I feel that AR's should be the same age. Really, there is no need for them - the only thing you can hunt with them is wild hogs - but I also feel that the gun is not at fault so no reason to get rid of them. 

My biggest thing is - a gun in good hands can protect us from the wrong. I believe teachers (those properly trained) - should be able to carry. It does not hurt to have more armed citizens if they are properly suited for it. Does everyone need to be? NO. Not everyone can properly shoot a gun. Not everyone can mindfully do so. With that being said, I am licensed to carry concealed. I do have my own hand gun. I do carry. I sleep with a pistol under the bed. I use it for protection. Do I want to shoot someone? NO. But, I am properly trained if the time were ever to arise and I needed to defend myself. Does it make me a bad person if I belong to the NRA and have a safe full of guns? Absolutely not. Guns don't just up and pull their own trigger and kill someone. Someone is behind that gun that isn't in the right state of mind and does it. Which, like OP stated - mental health is a HUGE part in our issue.

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Pink,,   I don't own a gun, but do support logical think people having them,  My exception is the assault weapons that have to often been used in these mass shootings.   If people want assault weapons, let them pay a large tax or fee to have, then maybe there would not be as many of them on the street.  I don't support any massive gun control, simply because I saw what damage that was done with  some gun powder & fertilizer, 23 years ago at court house in Oklahoma City.   PD

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Yes we do need some gun control. NOBODY should be able to purchase a gun without a background check ever. And there absolutely should be an age limit. I do not care if it is a private sale or gun show. Anyone that owns a semi auto should have to take so many hours a year in training and maintain a membership at an approved gun range and have the gun registered with the local police department.

Gun range owners and gun shop owners will tell you that they see all sorts of red flags when dealing with the public. Often times they are a first line of defense against idiots wanting to buy and use guns. They refuse customers all the time even if they pass background checks because they see things that just do not sit well.

That kid that shot up that school would probably never had that gun if he were expected actually put in the effort to own it. People like him are more often than not impulsive and probably won't want to jump through the hoops of legal ownership. 

But then you have the black market to deal with. 

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2 hours ago, TigerLilly said:

 

But then you have the black market to deal with. 

       There is no doubt that people that want guns bad enough, will find a way to get them, legal or illegal,  but some barriers put in place might stop a few senseless killings, but will not stop them all.  I'm proud of the young people that are now standing up to the powers that be, against gun violence in their schools & as they are the ones that carry the loudest voice that might be heard.  If the NRA had been policing itself years ago, they might have stopped some of the rift raft from getting their hands on guns, & they would have kept the government off their backs.  Any time government gets involved,  they tend to go over board, to often rights are taken away from innocent people.  PD

Edited by Proud Dad

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I cn't help but feel if there were more done for mental health, guns would be a much smaller problem.

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1 hour ago, noponies said:

I cn't help but feel if there were more done for mental health, guns would be a much smaller problem.

Very true.  Reagan closed metal health institutions and look where it got us.  Mentally ill people who are homeless and/or not functional and on the street.  

That Parkland teen was asking for help, but there was nowhere to send him.  Nowhere for him to get help.  No place he could go except a neighbor who was stupid enough to let him keep his high powered weapon in his room, despite the fact that she knew he was terribly unstable and depressed over the recent death of his mom. 

Edited by little cow

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Why on earth does a civilian need a semi automatic weapon other than to shoot a lot of people quickly?  Yes get rid of the gun for civilian use if the powers that be aren’t prepared (or willing) to regulate sales in a rational way.

 

for crying out loud the laws regulating CAR sales are way stricter than guns.  And we don’t need to point the finger at the “black market”.  CNN sent an undercover team into a gun expo in Dallas with $ 3,000, they came out 30 minutes later fully loaded and no questions were asked.  How crazy is that?

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10 hours ago, nick said:

Why on earth does a civilian need a semi automatic weapon other than to shoot a lot of people quickly?  
Yes get rid of the gun for civilian use if the powers that be aren’t prepared (or willing) to regulate sales in a rational way.

My hope is that sales can become nationally regulated in a fair manner, including having the existing laws enforced, but I also hope a large portion of any new regulation's onus is placed upon preventing those arms from falling into the hands of the mentally unstable and not the law abiding gun owning general public who do not suffer from mental illness.

The multiple-murder crimes that have occurred with modern semi-automatic weaponry are a direct result of mental illness and I believe that is the angle that needs immediate regulation of weaponry sales, ownership and home storage.

The 2nd Amendment was added to our Constitution specifically to ensure the American public would be able to defend itself against a government that has become tyrannical.  The following article outlines the reasoning behind the 2nd Amendment protecting our right to own weapons similar to what the military and law enforcement have.

https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/why-american-citizens-need-assault-rifles

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12 hours ago, nick said:

Why on earth does a civilian need a semi automatic weapon other than to shoot a lot of people quickly?  Yes get rid of the gun for civilian use if the powers that be aren’t prepared (or willing) to regulate sales in a rational way.

 

I have a semi-automatic shot gun. I use it for waterfowl hunting. Which, is also a very common thing. We are allowed three shells in it to hunt (in our state). You can buy extensions for certain ones if a state allows more then three shells. There are many varieties of semi-automatic guns - many calibers. I think that is more it - the caliber and how many rounds it can hold. Get rid of mag extensions - not necessarily the guns.

 

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  I think most of us, would like to see commonsense regulations that doesn't take away rights from law abiding citizens.  My fear is to often that DC doesn't demonstrate much common sense, then there is a over reach that makes no sense at all. PD

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Florida might be leading the way in the South.  There are a lot of really angry, fed up, adults and teens down here. We need something to change.  Republicans can kiss away the governorship next election unless they change their tune really quickly.  

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I didn't realize Rick Scott had reached his term limit. So the Republicans have plenty to worry about. And it explains why Scott was willing to buck the NRA. If all the Puerto Rican citizens who moved to Fl after the hurricanes register to vote, the Republicans have even more to worry about. 

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10 hours ago, nick said:

They were referring to NON semiautomatic weapons in a military context.  

Could you clarify what you mean with the above statement?  Who is referring to "NON semiautomatic" weapons in a military context?
By saying "NON semiautomatic" do you mean *fully automatic* weapons?

 

22 hours ago, nick said:

Why on earth does a civilian need a semi automatic weapon other than to shoot a lot of people quickly?  Yes get rid of the gun for civilian use if the powers that be aren’t prepared (or willing) to regulate sales in a rational way.

Because my understanding of your post above puts it at odds with your "NON semiautomatic" comment.

 

The NFA (National Firearms Act) was first enacted in 1934.  Modified in 1968 by the Gun Control Act and in 1986 by the Firearm Owners Protection Act.  Firearms and weapons in these categories are *highly* regulated and a special license issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms, Tobacco and Explosives (ATF) is required to manufacture, sell or own any of these items, without exception.  Under the NFA, it is illegal for any private citizen to own any fully automatic weapons manufactured after May 19, 1986.  It isn't even legal to make new replacement parts for these weapons.

So, is it legal to own pre-1986 fully automatic weapons?  Yes, but with a host of exceptions involving a process that is costly, invasive and time-consuming.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/02/actual-federal-laws-regulating-machine-guns-u-s/

Edited by Heidi n Q

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Walmart changing its age requirement from 18 to 21 for purchases of firearms.  also didn't know this, they don't sell the AR 15 and have their own background check procedures.  

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Quote

****'s Sporting Goods will immediately stop selling assault-style rifles and ban the sale of all guns to anyone under 21, the company said Wednesday, as its CEO took on the National Rifle Association by demanding tougher gun laws after the massacre in Florida.

The above goes for their sister store, Field and Stream, also. 

Why must they do this now? Why was nothing done after 57 lives were lost in Las Vegas? 

I feel if they raise the age for all fire arms to 21 - then noone under 21 should be allowed to be in the military. Those people are serving our country - holding firearms - yet cannot purchase one for personal use until 21? Then maybe if that is the case - they are not developed mentally enough yet to join until 21.

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1 hour ago, PinkTractor said:

The above goes for their sister store, Field and Stream, also. 

Why must they do this now? Why was nothing done after 57 lives were lost in Las Vegas? 

I feel if they raise the age for all fire arms to 21 - then noone under 21 should be allowed to be in the military. Those people are serving our country - holding firearms - yet cannot purchase one for personal use until 21? Then maybe if that is the case - they are not developed mentally enough yet to join until 21.

^^^C'mon Pink. Kids in the military are trained and screened. And even then, once in awhile one goes off the deep end. Some states already have a minimum age of 21 for everything but automatic rifles, which makes no sense at all. As far as why now and not before? Good question. I guess it took  the major stakeholders -- kids in school-- to demand action.

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16 minutes ago, jubal said:

^^^C'mon Pink. Kids in the military are trained and screened. And even then, once in awhile one goes off the deep end. Some states already have a minimum age of 21 for everything but automatic rifles, which makes no sense at all. 

Jubal, I agree. But I also was trained, went through courses, etc as a kid for gun safety and hunter safety. Yet, these honest young adults wouldn't be able to purchase a firearm. But, there are many who are claiming "brains aren't developed enough" at 18 so that is why the age increase suggestion. However, if they aren't...why can 18 year olds join military?

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28 minutes ago, jubal said:

^^^C'mon Pink. Kids in the military are trained and screened. And even then, once in awhile one goes off the deep end. Some states already have a minimum age of 21 for everything but automatic rifles, which makes no sense at all. As far as why now and not before? Good question. I guess it took  the major stakeholders -- kids in school-- to demand action.

Trained? Sort of. Screened? kind of a joke there. I still know some of these kids. Some of them should never hold a gun.

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10 minutes ago, PinkTractor said:

Jubal, I agree. But I also was trained, went through courses, etc as a kid for gun safety and hunter safety. Yet, these honest young adults wouldn't be able to purchase a firearm. But, there are many who are claiming "brains aren't developed enough" at 18 so that is why the age increase suggestion. However, if they aren't...why can 18 year olds join military?

To develop their brains.

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38 minutes ago, noponies said:

To develop their brains.

I disagree.  Collateral damage.  Always has been, always will be.  

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REI and L.L. Bean join the ranks of corporations putting distance between themselves and the NRA platform. 

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20 hours ago, PinkTractor said:

Jubal, I agree. But I also was trained, went through courses, etc as a kid for gun safety and hunter safety. Yet, these honest young adults wouldn't be able to purchase a firearm. But, there are many who are claiming "brains aren't developed enough" at 18 so that is why the age increase suggestion. However, if they aren't...why can 18 year olds join military?

Pink, I'm sure kids whose parents or family member obtained gun training for them and provided hunting opportunity, will be able to find an adult to accompany them on hunting trips and provide access to a rapid fire gun. Probably, you were introduced to hunting and guns by a responsible adult. But I also think those guns take most of the sport out of hunting. I probably would have been able to kill the snake faster if I'd had one. But it wouldn't  have proved I was a good shot, only a gun operator.

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Hunting rifles are not the same as the rifles we are most worried about.  I don't know anyone silly enough to hunt with an AR-15.  Good grief!  There wouldn't be anything to eat afterwards.  

I served nine years in the military.  The guns are used only under supervision and/or in a controlled environment (military base).  Wartime is different, but still controlled.  The ammo is strictly controlled.  You don't get to take your rifle home at night, lol!

It is very reasonable to control the age at which the average citizen can buy a serious military rifle.  It's also reasonable to require that individuals who want to buy guns aren't nuts.  In fact, we should have a national database to prevent guns getting into the hands of people with restraining orders and people who are on medication to treat serious psychiatric disorders.  Common sense, folks.  If people with psychiatric disorders are not allowed into the military or to work for a police department, why on earth would we allow them to buy a gun for personal use?  

It is even reasonable to require under-aged kids be under supervision of an adult when using a hunting rifle (which is much less damaging than a military rifle) and to prevent anyone from buying a rifle if they are not of a certain age.  

Edited by little cow

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 LC,,  It seems commonsense is a rare commodity these days, as very few in DC even know what it is. They've heard the term, but the meaning is to complex for them.  But I do like your post, as it makes great sense.   PD

Edited by Proud Dad

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