little cow

NRA versus Gun Control

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High capacity semi-automatic rifles are not just used for varmints and small game.  Look deeper and they go beyond the typical 5.56mm (.223cal) which is a smaller round.  Some states do allow these for deer hunting now.  Despite the smaller caliber they do pack a very lethal punch for game animals.  They also are available in 7.62mm (.308cal) which is an excellent round for large game and is still used extensively in long range rifle competitions.  Both of these calibers are based off the long standing NATO calibers.  So called assault rifles are legit hunting weapons.  

Semi automatic handguns can fire very quickly.  However, the world's fastest shooter, Jerry Miculek, beats them hands down firing 8 rounds from a revolver in 1 second.  Faster than any semi automatic.  He's fast and he's very accurate.  Jerry is the exception, not the rule for speed with accuracy but he does illustrate the potential a revolver does have.  His speed reloads happen just as fast with his revolver as he is with his semi automatic pistols.  Semi automatics are prone to jams from misfeeds from the magazine or a bad ejection.  Jams are extremely rare in a revolver.  

I have hunted many different species and still hunt some.  I've also competed in small bore, handgun, and rifle competitions while in the service.  I also shot trap for several years shooting a pump action for singles, an over/under and semi automatic for singles and doubles.  The semi automatic was the easiest to shoot when shooting multiple rounds in a day.  The reduction in recoil is very noticeable and welcomed.  For new and younger beginners the reduced recoil can be the difference between success and failure, enjoyment and fear.  Bird hunting and deer hunting I prefer my semi automatics because it's the type of weapon I'm most comfortable with after a long military career.  Second, follow up shots are very natural for me but something I struggle with using a pump or bolt action.  

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Wolfhaven, in hunting or competition with an assault rifle, would you need more than 10 rounds in the magazine?

Edited by little cow

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Hunting no.  It would depend on the competition.  3 gun competitions require them.  The competitions could be changed to suit whatever the law would limit them to if something were to change.  

I don't personally own an assault rifle or desire to own one, but do see the allure to them.  

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They are fun to shoot.  Ammo for the .223 and .22 calibers is relatively cheap to buy in bulk.  Set up multiple targets, designate a course to fire with friends and take turns.  If you like shooting guns and hitting targets it can be a fun few hours.  

The recoil system, pistol grip and accessories make it a very comfortable gun to shoot with low recoil and provides good control.  The accessories available to attach to this platform is almost limitless.  Modified correctly they can be extremely accurate out to very long ranges making them a good choice for long distance prairie dog hunting or silhouette target shooting.  

Not a tool for everyone, not one for me, but for some people it's a preferred option.  

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Shotgun holding 3 shells, usually birdshot, shooting little clay thingies being thrown up by a machine.  People are shooting. People are not being shot. Get it? Its a target sport.

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one dog dies in an overhead bin on a united airlines flight, and the legislature takes immediate action to ban putting animals in overhead bins.  17 students die in an assault with a semi-automatic weapon and no action is taken.  say what??

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Do you actually believe the crap you spew, or are you just digging for attention?  Either way, its pitiful.

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6 hours ago, nick said:

one dog dies in an overhead bin on a united airlines flight, and the legislature takes immediate action to ban putting animals in overhead bins.  17 students die in an assault with a semi-automatic weapon and no action is taken.  say what??

Don't worry. The kids will get the job done. Meanwhile, look up the businesses which sponsor the NRA and don't patronize them.

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On 3/17/2018 at 12:32 PM, noponies said:

Do you actually believe the crap you spew, or are you just digging for attention?  Either way, its pitiful.

United acknowledged that the 9 month old dog perished in the overhead bin.  What kind of “crap” are you talking about?  Everybody has acknowledged the dog was dead.  

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 What can be done, that isn't already being done? 

 Nothing we do/don't do, is going to keep guns out of the wrong hands....are the current gun laws doing that?  Criminals have always found ways around the law and, they will continue, with, or, without whatever "new laws" are enacted.

 The NRA, isn't in the business of manufacturing or, selling guns, they do, however, hold gun safety classes, so, I don't get the correlation between them and, gun violence.

 Guns will always be in existence, isn't it a good thing, to know how to handle them safely, if you're going to have one?  The NRA is there, for that reason.....they aren't the evil beings people think they are and, didn't, until crazy people started using guns to kill other people.

 People get drunk and get into cars and, kill people, where's the protests against alcohol and, automobiles?

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1 hour ago, equicrzy said:

 What can be done, that isn't already being done? 

 Nothing we do/don't do, is going to keep guns out of the wrong hands....are the current gun laws doing that?  Criminals have always found ways around the law and, they will continue, with, or, without whatever "new laws" are enacted.

 The NRA, isn't in the business of manufacturing or, selling guns, they do, however, hold gun safety classes, so, I don't get the correlation between them and, gun violence.

 Guns will always be in existence, isn't it a good thing, to know how to handle them safely, if you're going to have one?  The NRA is there, for that reason.....they aren't the evil beings people think they are and, didn't, until crazy people started using guns to kill other people.

 People get drunk and get into cars and, kill people, where's the protests against alcohol and, automobiles?

nothing is being done.  anyone can buy a gun who is over 18,  buying or selling a car has a much bigger paper trail and background check. 

 

the NRA is a long recognized gun lobby, with huge influence among republicans.  let's call it what it is shall we hmm? 

 

there are laws and penalties pertainining to drunk driving.    you lose your license.  Mothers Against Drunk Driving has been around forever based on kids getting killed by drunk drivers. 

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20 hours ago, nick said:

nothing is being done.  anyone can buy a gun who is over 18,  buying or selling a car has a much bigger paper trail and background check. 

the NRA is a long recognized gun lobby, with huge influence among republicans.  let's call it what it is shall we hmm? 

there are laws and penalties pertainining to drunk driving.    you lose your license.  Mothers Against Drunk Driving has been around forever based on kids getting killed by drunk drivers. 

First, what background check is there for purchasing a car? 
I believe there is a credit check when purchasing a vehicle from a dealer but I highly doubt a private seller is going to ask for one.  I certainly don't see anyone being fingerprinted and having an NCIC or NICS criminal history check (required for purchasing a gun from a dealer) being done for purchasing a vehicle.

Next, the NRA is a long-standing civil rights organization that lobbies both for and against legislation, that over its history has influenced legislation and endorsed or opposed various political candidates.  Yes, the organization is certainly influential with specific regard to protecting Second Amendment rights.

Finally, regarding MADD and DUI drivers' losing their licenses ... there is no outcry for all people to lose their driving privileges based on the actions of a fairly large percentage of the population - https://www.madd.org/statistics/ - while less than 2% of gun deaths were due to a rapid fire rifle - https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/assault-weapons-deaths_us_5763109de4b015db1bc8c123 - and people are up in arms about the deadly actions of a few people.

Something I find much more alarming, is the number of times (30+) the young man had *law enforcement* interaction for violence at home, mental instability, classmates reporting alarming terroristic and threatening behavior, photos of weapons and dead animals on social media, multiple expulsions how many times the FBI was consulted about this young man. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting.html - and nothing was done to protect innocent lives from him.  THAT is something that needs to change.

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Bingo Heidi.  Somebody asks for some kind of I.D. And proof of insurance.  The DMV has strict rules.   

 

And you evoking the second amendment is a JOKE.  The founding fathers were talkin about MUSKETS,  not semi automatic weapons.  

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58 minutes ago, Heidi n Q said:

First, what background check is there for purchasing a car? 
I believe there is a credit check when purchasing a vehicle from a dealer but I highly doubt a private seller is going to ask for one.  I certainly don't see anyone being fingerprinted and having an NCIC or NICS criminal history check (required for purchasing a gun from a dealer) being done for purchasing a vehicle.

Next, the NRA is a long-standing civil rights organization that lobbies both for and against legislation, that over its history has influenced legislation and endorsed or opposed various political candidates.  Yes, the organization is certainly influential with specific regard to protecting Second Amendment rights.

Finally, regarding MADD and DUI drivers' losing their licenses ... there is no outcry for all people to lose their driving privileges based on the actions of a fairly large percentage of the population - https://www.madd.org/statistics/ - while less than 2% of gun deaths were due to a rapid fire rifle - https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/assault-weapons-deaths_us_5763109de4b015db1bc8c123 - and people are up in arms about the deadly actions of a few people.

Something I find much more alarming, is the number of times (30+) the young man had *law enforcement* interaction for violence at home, mental instability, classmates reporting alarming terroristic and threatening behavior, photos of weapons and dead animals on social media, multiple expulsions how many times the FBI was consulted about this young man. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting.html - and nothing was done to protect innocent lives from him.  THAT is something that needs to change.

 Thanks Heidi, very well thought out/said.

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Since 1968, more than 1,516,853 American civilians have been killed by guns, as compared to 1,396,733 cumulative war deaths since the American Revolution.  

 

 

 

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But, what CAN be done, that isn't already being done.....yes, there are laws in place for owning guns, what, beyond background checks and, waiting periods, do people expect?  

 Raising the age to buy a gun from 18 to 21, is not the answer, by doing that, you're essentially saying, you are now, not a legal adult until you're 21, more than just buying a gun, would come into play..... joining the military, voting, etc...you can't pick and choose,  due to sentiment and, situations, when a person is an adult.....as it stands, a person is an adult at the age of 18....you'd have to change a lot more than just the number, to require a person to be 21, to purchase a firearm.

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So MADD's statistics show 30,000 young lives saved from alcohol related deaths since the laws were changed back in 1981 or was it 1982? (eta: states were required to raise the age limit to 21 by 1986 or lose highway funds)  How many young lives were ended by gun violence in the same period?  From 2002 to 2012 alone 28,000 plus children died at the hand of a gun.  We pushed for changes in motor vehicle laws to curb childhood deaths due to alcohol related crashes.  Laws that affected more than just a few people.  yet we refuse to discuss changes in firearm regulations that will affect far fewer people negatively.  

18 you can be drafted, serve in the military even but you can't buy alcohol.  You also can't run for President, the Senate or the House.  Can't be trusted to buy alcohol because of the potential negative consequences yet you can purchase firearms.  Because they can't have negative consequences?

No need pass gun control laws because criminals will always find a way to get a hold of a gun.  Well, same logic says we don't need to build a wall or deport illegal immigrants because they will always find a way across the border.  We should just stop wasting expensive resources and money.  

Edited by wolfhaven

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 Want to add.  We have laws about illegal drugs, people still are able to acquire them, use them and, die from them.

 We have laws against driving drunk, people purchase alcohol, legally, consume it, get behind the wheel and, kill people.

 There are laws against speeding, people still do  it and, get into accidents that kill innocent people.

 How, then, are stricter gun laws supposed to keep people from obtaining guns, if they can't buy them legally, they'll Rob your house, buy them from the trunk of a car, from someone who stole them..... criminals don't care about legalities..... The only people who won't have a weapon in which to defend themselves, are, the innocent, law abiding citizens.

Edited by equicrzy

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So no laws is the answer? 

Maybe it's not about being able to totally eliminate, but as MADD proved, you can greatly reduce the carnage.  

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here's a pop quiz, just for fun;  who knows which states/agencies regulate firearms?  and what the regs are?

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27 minutes ago, wolfhaven said:

So no laws is the answer? 

Maybe it's not about being able to totally eliminate, but as MADD proved, you can greatly reduce the carnage.  

 Who said, no laws?  I pointed out, we already have laws, but, criminals will and, have always found ways around them, or, simply ignore them, so, how would more, stricter laws regarding guns, do any good.

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24 minutes ago, equicrzy said:

 Who said, no laws?  I pointed out, we already have laws, but, criminals will and, have always found ways around them, or, simply ignore them, so, how would more, stricter laws regarding guns, do any good.

We have a massive opoid epidemic in America.   Doctors are not controlled to whom they give prescriptions.  Hello?? 

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If laws are no good because criminals don't abide by them then you in essence are saying no laws are effective.  If laws aren't effective then the answer is no laws?  Isn't that what you're saying?  

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The weapons manufacturers must be required to vet every buyer.  According to DMV standards.  A car is also a weapon.  

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45 minutes ago, nick said:

here's a pop quiz, just for fun;  who knows which states/agencies regulate firearms?  and what the regs are?

Since every good instructor who presents a quiz, pop or preplanned, has the answers to the questions.  What are your answers?  Just for fun.

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