Sign in to follow this  
RedHorse

Grr! Why??

Recommended Posts

My horse is strange. Of all the strange habits of his I shall just discuss this maybe someone can help. Keep in mind I live in the sticks and there's no trainers around.

He's 5, and I've done all of his training myself. All is great. He's an awsome trail horse although I've never done anything faster than a walk cuz I don't fully trust him yet. (and we live in the woods and getting hit by trees hurts)

Whenever I try to ride him in an enclosed area (our patures that are huge and double as arenas) he won't move, he tries to buck which I know of so I stop him, and he wont steer. I dont get it because nothing is different from when I'm on the trail except the fence which we are way far from. Do tell. Is it because he is in his home and thinks he should not work or some strange evuivelent??

I'm thrilled he likes trail work but it would be nice to take him for fence checks and 10 minute rides everyonce in a while. If anyone has ideas let me know. I dont want a crash and bash post due to his "lack of training" that the loony neighbor girl is always preaching about. (yet shes deathly afraid of her 5 year old.who's lacking training ??)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My horse is strange. Of all the strange habits of his I shall just discuss this maybe someone can help. Keep in mind I live in the sticks and there's no trainers around.

He's 5, and I've done all of his training myself. All is great. He's an awsome trail horse although I've never done anything faster than a walk cuz I don't fully trust him yet. (and we live in the woods and getting hit by trees hurts)

Whenever I try to ride him in an enclosed area (our patures that are huge and double as arenas) he won't move, he tries to buck which I know of so I stop him, and he wont steer. I dont get it because nothing is different from when I'm on the trail except the fence which we are way far from. Do tell. Is it because he is in his home and thinks he should not work or some strange evuivelent??

I'm thrilled he likes trail work but it would be nice to take him for fence checks and 10 minute rides everyonce in a while. If anyone has ideas let me know. I dont want a crash and bash post due to his "lack of training" that the loony neighbor girl is always preaching about. (yet shes deathly afraid of her 5 year old.who's lacking training ??)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like to me that its "asking for more of me" sourness. All you do is walk on a trail. That is easy and relaxing. When you ask more of your horse in the pasture/arena (because that's where you are comfortable doing the asking), he's like "forget you! I don't wanna!" Thus the bucking... AND, since you are stopping him when he is bucking, he's got your number. You have taught him that bucking = no work (which is what he wants). All my horses know that bucking = A LOT MORE WORK! Because any time they try, they get their tushy worked off. Sounds like you have just allowed your horse to take advantage of you and he knows he can get aways with it. Horses are a lot smarter than people give them credit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like to me that its "asking for more of me" sourness. All you do is walk on a trail. That is easy and relaxing. When you ask more of your horse in the pasture/arena (because that's where you are comfortable doing the asking), he's like "forget you! I don't wanna!" Thus the bucking... AND, since you are stopping him when he is bucking, he's got your number. You have taught him that bucking = no work (which is what he wants). All my horses know that bucking = A LOT MORE WORK! Because any time they try, they get their tushy worked off. Sounds like you have just allowed your horse to take advantage of you and he knows he can get aways with it. Horses are a lot smarter than people give them credit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pasture is HIS place where he (I assume) is usually able to be a horse, think for himself and go out a graze. When you try to make him work in his comfy place, of course he is going to throw a fit.

You need control. I think I talk about this in all the boards I answer but it has worked for me so I will live and die by it. Flex your horse. Right and left. WHen you pick up on the rein and pull his head around to the right, he should put slack in the rein. If he just leans into it, then he needs to learn to give to the bit. The more you make him give and flex the more relaxed he will become. ANd if you EVER ge in a pickle, use a one rein stop (pull him into a tight circle until he stops). I taught my horse the one rein stop at all gaits and it sure came in handy the first time I took her down the road alone. Every car that came by, we had to walk in circles until we were calm enough to walk ahead.

What I am getting to is that you ned to get him trotting to get his energy out. DO this on the trail if that is more comfortable for both of you. Teach him the one rein stop at a walk. The GET BRAVE and ask for a trot as lightly as possible. If he starts to fee at all silly, tossing his head or dropping his head or what-not, the pull him in that tight circle until he calms and gives to you. Then ask again. Eventually he will realize that all he has to do it what you ask and he won't get yanked around!

Just some ideas! Good luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pasture is HIS place where he (I assume) is usually able to be a horse, think for himself and go out a graze. When you try to make him work in his comfy place, of course he is going to throw a fit.

You need control. I think I talk about this in all the boards I answer but it has worked for me so I will live and die by it. Flex your horse. Right and left. WHen you pick up on the rein and pull his head around to the right, he should put slack in the rein. If he just leans into it, then he needs to learn to give to the bit. The more you make him give and flex the more relaxed he will become. ANd if you EVER ge in a pickle, use a one rein stop (pull him into a tight circle until he stops). I taught my horse the one rein stop at all gaits and it sure came in handy the first time I took her down the road alone. Every car that came by, we had to walk in circles until we were calm enough to walk ahead.

What I am getting to is that you ned to get him trotting to get his energy out. DO this on the trail if that is more comfortable for both of you. Teach him the one rein stop at a walk. The GET BRAVE and ask for a trot as lightly as possible. If he starts to fee at all silly, tossing his head or dropping his head or what-not, the pull him in that tight circle until he calms and gives to you. Then ask again. Eventually he will realize that all he has to do it what you ask and he won't get yanked around!

Just some ideas! Good luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I agree entirely with Lopinslow28, I have to add that in order to teach a horse to give to the bit, the rider must be experienced in giving back at the instant the horse gives. This is usually something that people have to learn a "feel" for and can create more of a problem (I've seen it first hand) by confusing the horse more if they do not give back but take more rein.

Redhorse, if you do not have the "feel" for this, find someone to teach it to you. I've seen inexperienced hands try this and not fully understand the concept. All it did was create an even more resistant horse (in the extreme case, one that rears and bucks).

I'm not saying don't try it, just use your best judgement. Clinton Anderson has good videos on this concept. Maybe you can watch one before attempting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I agree entirely with Lopinslow28, I have to add that in order to teach a horse to give to the bit, the rider must be experienced in giving back at the instant the horse gives. This is usually something that people have to learn a "feel" for and can create more of a problem (I've seen it first hand) by confusing the horse more if they do not give back but take more rein.

Redhorse, if you do not have the "feel" for this, find someone to teach it to you. I've seen inexperienced hands try this and not fully understand the concept. All it did was create an even more resistant horse (in the extreme case, one that rears and bucks).

I'm not saying don't try it, just use your best judgement. Clinton Anderson has good videos on this concept. Maybe you can watch one before attempting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If he's bucking to keep from working and he has no REASON to be bucking (i.e. poor saddle fit)then you could try something our trainer did with a horse that would leap around for no reason. She would pick a rein (her rein of choice was the right rein) and yank on him every time he leaped/bucked. He stopped doing that after the first couple times and is now very well behaved. Some young horse buck because they think they can.

This might not work with your horse but it did work with this other horse because he knew he wasnt SUPPOSED to leap/buck.

You could try doing some lunging in the enclosed area so he learns that he does have to work and isnt going to just walk like he does on trails. Really work on getting him to move foreward and you can try getting him to be voice commanded. If he still wont go faster when you ride him then you can try carrying a crop. You might not have to use but show it to him and let him know that you WILL use it if you have to.

Hopefully this helps!

[ 07-17-2006, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: Bindi ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If he's bucking to keep from working and he has no REASON to be bucking (i.e. poor saddle fit)then you could try something our trainer did with a horse that would leap around for no reason. She would pick a rein (her rein of choice was the right rein) and yank on him every time he leaped/bucked. He stopped doing that after the first couple times and is now very well behaved. Some young horse buck because they think they can.

This might not work with your horse but it did work with this other horse because he knew he wasnt SUPPOSED to leap/buck.

You could try doing some lunging in the enclosed area so he learns that he does have to work and isnt going to just walk like he does on trails. Really work on getting him to move foreward and you can try getting him to be voice commanded. If he still wont go faster when you ride him then you can try carrying a crop. You might not have to use but show it to him and let him know that you WILL use it if you have to.

Hopefully this helps!

[ 07-17-2006, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: Bindi ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to be honest not all horses like arena work...he may just not like it, and to be honest there really is not much you can do if he does not like arena work...there are many horses that are sold as trail horses only simply because the horse refuses to do arena work. Also if you don't trust him he senses that so he will refuse to go because he can feel your tension...this is part rider part horse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to be honest not all horses like arena work...he may just not like it, and to be honest there really is not much you can do if he does not like arena work...there are many horses that are sold as trail horses only simply because the horse refuses to do arena work. Also if you don't trust him he senses that so he will refuse to go because he can feel your tension...this is part rider part horse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

to be honest not all horses like arena work...he may just not like it, and to be honest there really is not much you can do if he does not like arena work...there are many horses that are sold as trail horses only simply because the horse refuses to do arena work. Also if you don't trust him he senses that so he will refuse to go because he can feel your tension...this is part rider part horse

Sorry, just now getting back to this topic...

The horse may not like arena work but should behave none the less! If the horse is sold as a trail horse and the new owner tries to trot or canter on a trail (something the current owner doesn't do) there could be trouble. Selling a horse as a "trail horse only" doesn't solve the problem. The problem must be corrected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

to be honest not all horses like arena work...he may just not like it, and to be honest there really is not much you can do if he does not like arena work...there are many horses that are sold as trail horses only simply because the horse refuses to do arena work. Also if you don't trust him he senses that so he will refuse to go because he can feel your tension...this is part rider part horse

Sorry, just now getting back to this topic...

The horse may not like arena work but should behave none the less! If the horse is sold as a trail horse and the new owner tries to trot or canter on a trail (something the current owner doesn't do) there could be trouble. Selling a horse as a "trail horse only" doesn't solve the problem. The problem must be corrected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by GoldDust-n-Jr:

quote:

to be honest not all horses like arena work...he may just not like it, and to be honest there really is not much you can do if he does not like arena work...there are many horses that are sold as trail horses only simply because the horse refuses to do arena work. Also if you don't trust him he senses that so he will refuse to go because he can feel your tension...this is part rider part horse

Sorry, just now getting back to this topic...

The horse may not like arena work but should behave none the less! If the horse is sold as a trail horse and the new owner tries to trot or canter on a trail (something the current owner doesn't do) there could be trouble. Selling a horse as a "trail horse only" doesn't solve the problem. The problem must be corrected.

I agree with you they should behave none the less. However, some horses never get over being arena sour. Horses all the time become arena sour usually because all their life they were worked in an arena and are done. We have an awesome show mare at our barn that is being sold as "trail horse" only. She is in her teens, but she is now so done with the arena, that she tries to get in fights with other horses in there, and refuses to take the correct lead ect. in an arena. We have very good trainers down at the barn that have tried working with her, but when a horse is so against arena work you can't exactly change their minds. them being the 1000 pound horse and us being the little scrawny thing on top with flapping leg syndrom trying to get them to move forward.

This person sounds like they don't trust the horse. They should hire a trainer to handle the arena behavior. By trying to get this horse to ride in an arena you will be starting a fight...which could get very dangerous as in most cases you can't win the fight in the saddle. All I am saying is this is something an experianced trainer needs to deal with. Like you said all they have done is walked this horse because they don't really trust him. Thats fine, so all I recommend is hiring a trainer before they attempt riding in the arean, or at least doi a lot of groundwork in an arena.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by GoldDust-n-Jr:

quote:

to be honest not all horses like arena work...he may just not like it, and to be honest there really is not much you can do if he does not like arena work...there are many horses that are sold as trail horses only simply because the horse refuses to do arena work. Also if you don't trust him he senses that so he will refuse to go because he can feel your tension...this is part rider part horse

Sorry, just now getting back to this topic...

The horse may not like arena work but should behave none the less! If the horse is sold as a trail horse and the new owner tries to trot or canter on a trail (something the current owner doesn't do) there could be trouble. Selling a horse as a "trail horse only" doesn't solve the problem. The problem must be corrected.

I agree with you they should behave none the less. However, some horses never get over being arena sour. Horses all the time become arena sour usually because all their life they were worked in an arena and are done. We have an awesome show mare at our barn that is being sold as "trail horse" only. She is in her teens, but she is now so done with the arena, that she tries to get in fights with other horses in there, and refuses to take the correct lead ect. in an arena. We have very good trainers down at the barn that have tried working with her, but when a horse is so against arena work you can't exactly change their minds. them being the 1000 pound horse and us being the little scrawny thing on top with flapping leg syndrom trying to get them to move forward.

This person sounds like they don't trust the horse. They should hire a trainer to handle the arena behavior. By trying to get this horse to ride in an arena you will be starting a fight...which could get very dangerous as in most cases you can't win the fight in the saddle. All I am saying is this is something an experianced trainer needs to deal with. Like you said all they have done is walked this horse because they don't really trust him. Thats fine, so all I recommend is hiring a trainer before they attempt riding in the arean, or at least doi a lot of groundwork in an arena.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why on earth you would ride a horse that has only walked on a trail is beyond me. This is a classic problem alot of people make. Do you realize if that horse spooks or lopes off for any reason he's likely going to panic and your going to be in alot of trouble.

Your horse needs free forward motion. He absolutely needs someone to trot and lope him out, preferably in a roundpen or arena for the first time. You'll need a confident rider on him that will ride him balanced and not pinch with their knees or interfere in his mouth. In the roundpen give him his head and ask for more forward motion. Liven up the legs and trot. If you have a pasture than do it there. After you teach him to disengage his hindquarters in case you get in a bind. Reward for forward motion but make sure your hands are forward and you don't pull back when using your feet to move. This will cause a wreck. Hands forward and use your feet to bump..bump..bump.. Can someone lunge you while your riding for the first trot?

Can you bend him left and right with lateral flexion? If so ask him to bend right and move his right hind under him. Basically, he'll likely circle first and once the front feet move and he is bending right than wait until he disengages his hindquarters. When he does than release. You need to be able to control his hind end before your out cruising through the woods. IF he takes off bucking..what are you going to do? You have to disengage his hindquarters!

[ 07-18-2006, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: wrangler ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why on earth you would ride a horse that has only walked on a trail is beyond me. This is a classic problem alot of people make. Do you realize if that horse spooks or lopes off for any reason he's likely going to panic and your going to be in alot of trouble.

Your horse needs free forward motion. He absolutely needs someone to trot and lope him out, preferably in a roundpen or arena for the first time. You'll need a confident rider on him that will ride him balanced and not pinch with their knees or interfere in his mouth. In the roundpen give him his head and ask for more forward motion. Liven up the legs and trot. If you have a pasture than do it there. After you teach him to disengage his hindquarters in case you get in a bind. Reward for forward motion but make sure your hands are forward and you don't pull back when using your feet to move. This will cause a wreck. Hands forward and use your feet to bump..bump..bump.. Can someone lunge you while your riding for the first trot?

Can you bend him left and right with lateral flexion? If so ask him to bend right and move his right hind under him. Basically, he'll likely circle first and once the front feet move and he is bending right than wait until he disengages his hindquarters. When he does than release. You need to be able to control his hind end before your out cruising through the woods. IF he takes off bucking..what are you going to do? You have to disengage his hindquarters!

[ 07-18-2006, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: wrangler ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

By trying to get this horse to ride in an arena you will be starting a fight...which could get very dangerous as in most cases you can't win the fight in the saddle.

I'd rather be in an enclosed area for that fight, not out in the open where you could lose your horse all together! [Wink] It is obvious that the horse has gotten away with bucking and equating that to "not working" by the OP because all the OP does is walk on a trail. If the sourness shows up in on the trail too (which we don't know) then it's not just an arena issue...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

By trying to get this horse to ride in an arena you will be starting a fight...which could get very dangerous as in most cases you can't win the fight in the saddle.

I'd rather be in an enclosed area for that fight, not out in the open where you could lose your horse all together! [Wink] It is obvious that the horse has gotten away with bucking and equating that to "not working" by the OP because all the OP does is walk on a trail. If the sourness shows up in on the trail too (which we don't know) then it's not just an arena issue...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's learned that when you push to do work, if he pushes back, he gets to stop. That's why he does it.

As for yanking on a rein to get the horse to stop bucking, that's a great idea if you want to quickly stiffen the horse and make it easier for them to buck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're the best candidate I've seen recently for one of the relationship-building training programs such as Parelli. It doesn't have to be expensive, you can sometimes check out videos at the library or get them cheap on Ebay.

The concept is simple. Play with your horse to get him to respect you. Now before you laugh and snort coffee through your nose, keep in mind it works for an awful lot of people.

I do agree with whoever back up the line here said that riding a horse you only trust to walk is folly, however, not wanting to bash or be out of line. But the primary reason I mention it is because it is a dangerous thing and we don't want any HCers getting hurt!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's learned that when you push to do work, if he pushes back, he gets to stop. That's why he does it.

As for yanking on a rein to get the horse to stop bucking, that's a great idea if you want to quickly stiffen the horse and make it easier for them to buck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're the best candidate I've seen recently for one of the relationship-building training programs such as Parelli. It doesn't have to be expensive, you can sometimes check out videos at the library or get them cheap on Ebay.

The concept is simple. Play with your horse to get him to respect you. Now before you laugh and snort coffee through your nose, keep in mind it works for an awful lot of people.

I do agree with whoever back up the line here said that riding a horse you only trust to walk is folly, however, not wanting to bash or be out of line. But the primary reason I mention it is because it is a dangerous thing and we don't want any HCers getting hurt!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this