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GreyHorse

GP riding Piper... vids on p. 7

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And promptly flunked the safety eval that they make you go thru when you bring a new horse in.

A little history...

Goldpiper brought Piper down on Sunday, and we met up at the fair grounds. I rode her a bit, found some hooeys, but also, most amazingly found a lot of my own signals on her. OMGosh!!! I was soooo impressed.

The back up off the legs was there, and the whoa off seat and legs. I was blown away.

Now Goldpiper is a little older than me, and she tells me that Piper is her first horse ever. If I weren't already on top of the mare, I would've been thinking "Hooooboy...".

But the little girl is well broke, not very well behaved, but knows quite a bit of stuff. The only problem is that she also knows how to say "Nuh-uh".

Course, she'd been in the trailer for better than 3 hours, so she was tired, and when I rode her she was good. GoldPiper tells me about some of the shenanigans that she'll pull, but I don't see any of them. A little kick once, and that was it.

So I take her to the feedyard that nite, turn her into a horse pen, and wait till we get some time to do the safety eval.

Mon and Tues we are cramming every bit of work into the two nice days afore the weather hits, so no time for extra stuff.

Weds was so miserable, that we got done working and then went home and fell into bed.

So today, Thanksgiving day, she's been sitting in her pen, no grain yet, but lots of good hay, and full of p*ss and vinegar.

I took her into the pen that we usually do the eval in, and she says..."Ummmm, I don't think so."

She's running backwards (which Goldpiper told me about), crowding my leg into the gates, refusing to sidepass up to them, generally being a total ... Yeah, that word.

So I'm not allowed to ride her.

I'm thinking, I'll fix that...

And lead her w/ me all day thru the pens. She quickly gets the hang of how to maneuver thru the gates along side my horse, how to stay out of the way when we check a calf out, and how to behave herself while we are pulling one. Basically, I'm seeing a fairly willing, good natured horse.

So for the afternoon, I tied her up outside. She paws for a while, totally insulted that she has to stand there and wait.

Then I waited till every one left (it is Thanksgiving and everyone jetted out as soon as they could), and rode her.

She lined out immediately.

I trotted her a while, w/ a few transitions here and there, but mostly kept her moving. She kept wanting to turn back for the barn, but I just used my legs to keep her under me. Then I tried a few gates, and before long, she's even got the hang of opening them just enough to let herself thru and then swing around to shut it again.

So we're up for another safety eval tomorrow. Wish me and her luck.

We took a video of her ride at the fairgrounds, and I'll be posting those later.

[ 02-01-2008, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: GreyHorse ]

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And promptly flunked the safety eval that they make you go thru when you bring a new horse in.

A little history...

Goldpiper brought Piper down on Sunday, and we met up at the fair grounds. I rode her a bit, found some hooeys, but also, most amazingly found a lot of my own signals on her. OMGosh!!! I was soooo impressed.

The back up off the legs was there, and the whoa off seat and legs. I was blown away.

Now Goldpiper is a little older than me, and she tells me that Piper is her first horse ever. If I weren't already on top of the mare, I would've been thinking "Hooooboy...".

But the little girl is well broke, not very well behaved, but knows quite a bit of stuff. The only problem is that she also knows how to say "Nuh-uh".

Course, she'd been in the trailer for better than 3 hours, so she was tired, and when I rode her she was good. GoldPiper tells me about some of the shenanigans that she'll pull, but I don't see any of them. A little kick once, and that was it.

So I take her to the feedyard that nite, turn her into a horse pen, and wait till we get some time to do the safety eval.

Mon and Tues we are cramming every bit of work into the two nice days afore the weather hits, so no time for extra stuff.

Weds was so miserable, that we got done working and then went home and fell into bed.

So today, Thanksgiving day, she's been sitting in her pen, no grain yet, but lots of good hay, and full of p*ss and vinegar.

I took her into the pen that we usually do the eval in, and she says..."Ummmm, I don't think so."

She's running backwards (which Goldpiper told me about), crowding my leg into the gates, refusing to sidepass up to them, generally being a total ... Yeah, that word.

So I'm not allowed to ride her.

I'm thinking, I'll fix that...

And lead her w/ me all day thru the pens. She quickly gets the hang of how to maneuver thru the gates along side my horse, how to stay out of the way when we check a calf out, and how to behave herself while we are pulling one. Basically, I'm seeing a fairly willing, good natured horse.

So for the afternoon, I tied her up outside. She paws for a while, totally insulted that she has to stand there and wait.

Then I waited till every one left (it is Thanksgiving and everyone jetted out as soon as they could), and rode her.

She lined out immediately.

I trotted her a while, w/ a few transitions here and there, but mostly kept her moving. She kept wanting to turn back for the barn, but I just used my legs to keep her under me. Then I tried a few gates, and before long, she's even got the hang of opening them just enough to let herself thru and then swing around to shut it again.

So we're up for another safety eval tomorrow. Wish me and her luck.

We took a video of her ride at the fairgrounds, and I'll be posting those later.

[ 02-01-2008, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: GreyHorse ]

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Oh Wow!! [big Grin] You didn't realize how many are taking advantage of your site and the training tips did you? [Wink][Wink] They are invaluable to me. [big Grin] I look forward to seeing the video.

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Oh Wow!! [big Grin] You didn't realize how many are taking advantage of your site and the training tips did you? [Wink][Wink] They are invaluable to me. [big Grin] I look forward to seeing the video.

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The little turkey butt. I guess she decided being Turkey day she was going to be a turkey. Hopefully things will go better tomorrow.

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The little turkey butt. I guess she decided being Turkey day she was going to be a turkey. Hopefully things will go better tomorrow.

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Alright... here are the vids from her first ride w/ me.

The first one I'm just trying to get to know the mare, trotting some circles, finding her BEAUTiful stop, her wonderful back up. Way too cool, GoldPiper.

The second one Goldpiper told me that she does know how to open a gate, and lookey here, she does wonderful.

The second part of that clip is me trying to teach her to cross her front legs over for a sharper turn. It'll take a while, but she's getting it.

http://slaterhorsetraining.com/stuff/piper2.mov

http://slaterhorsetraining.com/stuff/Piper1.mov

Who'd've thunk after a nice easy ride like this, that she'd totally, and I mean totally fall apart at the yard.

Tho, I gotta say, she did exactly what Goldpiper warned me she'd done in the past. Except maybe add the part about ramming my legs into the gates. And I think that's only cause she had opportunity. There was steel fencing every where she looked. "Wanna get close to that pipe gate? There, that close enough for you?"

LOL.

[ 11-23-2007, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: GreyHorse ]

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Alright... here are the vids from her first ride w/ me.

The first one I'm just trying to get to know the mare, trotting some circles, finding her BEAUTiful stop, her wonderful back up. Way too cool, GoldPiper.

The second one Goldpiper told me that she does know how to open a gate, and lookey here, she does wonderful.

The second part of that clip is me trying to teach her to cross her front legs over for a sharper turn. It'll take a while, but she's getting it.

http://slaterhorsetraining.com/stuff/piper2.mov

http://slaterhorsetraining.com/stuff/Piper1.mov

Who'd've thunk after a nice easy ride like this, that she'd totally, and I mean totally fall apart at the yard.

Tho, I gotta say, she did exactly what Goldpiper warned me she'd done in the past. Except maybe add the part about ramming my legs into the gates. And I think that's only cause she had opportunity. There was steel fencing every where she looked. "Wanna get close to that pipe gate? There, that close enough for you?"

LOL.

[ 11-23-2007, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: GreyHorse ]

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So I'll quickly tell you about her first day at work...Real quick afore my bath water gets cold.

What a day to start working.

I lunged her in the am afore we did the second safety eval, which was probly a good thing. But she passed w/ flying colors.

So then we go to work. And I squeak her thru the first few gates, and had to pull 4 head out of the first 6 pens. I don't think she ever really figured out what was going on, but she stopped and go'ed fairly decently, turn here, back up now. Everything a little late, but not too bad.

Course pulling cows takes a little time, and about half way thru the first alley, we hit the magic 1 hour mark. And I can just see her thinking...

"Whoa, what is this ****... It don't even look like we are close to done yet!!!"

She got grumpeeee... kicked at my partners horse once when he was riding past us.

But then she settled again.

It was miserable cold today, so we went in to warm up every chance we got. Which was great for poor little Piper. She got to rest and relax too.

In the second alley I had to pull three more, these by ourselves. I didn't really see the light bulb coming on, but when I got into the third one and had to pull a bloat, she definitely had the idea.

But by the time we were going thru the third alley, she was getting tired. And instead of lining out and relying on me to make her job easier, she got mad. Slamming me into the gates again, trying to turn back for the barn, refusing to trot straight. I mean, we were making two sets of tracks w/ one horse. Her hindend was out there sidepassing.

Lunch time came and another good rest for Piper.

BUT!!! when we went back to work, the snow balls were flying! Snow balls, not flakes, hitting us in the eyes. I trotted to the next alley, and lo and behold, she skipped into a lope.

Now, Goldpiper had told me that she hasn't loped her since she was riding her as a 3 yr old.

Her lope was easy, controlled and comfy.

We got into the pens, and I can hear her clicking her heels together saying "There's no place like home, there's no place like home."

Then she figures out that when the cattle bunch up like that for a snow storm, they do that for the heat.

LOL... I couldn't get her out of the middle of the cows. She's like, "Nuh-uh, I ain't leaving. I'm comfy right here. Hope you got another way to get home."

All in all, she did good... and bad. I saw a lot of resistance, a lot of evasions that are gonna have to get worked out, and a lot of work on the way she uses her body. I know she's got a decent head tuck, but I sure haven't seen it today.

She did loose some weight since she's got here, and today didn't help. But I've started her on grain, and I'll be working her up to the usual three gallons I feed my horses here.

Off into the bath tub to warm up.

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So I'll quickly tell you about her first day at work...Real quick afore my bath water gets cold.

What a day to start working.

I lunged her in the am afore we did the second safety eval, which was probly a good thing. But she passed w/ flying colors.

So then we go to work. And I squeak her thru the first few gates, and had to pull 4 head out of the first 6 pens. I don't think she ever really figured out what was going on, but she stopped and go'ed fairly decently, turn here, back up now. Everything a little late, but not too bad.

Course pulling cows takes a little time, and about half way thru the first alley, we hit the magic 1 hour mark. And I can just see her thinking...

"Whoa, what is this ****... It don't even look like we are close to done yet!!!"

She got grumpeeee... kicked at my partners horse once when he was riding past us.

But then she settled again.

It was miserable cold today, so we went in to warm up every chance we got. Which was great for poor little Piper. She got to rest and relax too.

In the second alley I had to pull three more, these by ourselves. I didn't really see the light bulb coming on, but when I got into the third one and had to pull a bloat, she definitely had the idea.

But by the time we were going thru the third alley, she was getting tired. And instead of lining out and relying on me to make her job easier, she got mad. Slamming me into the gates again, trying to turn back for the barn, refusing to trot straight. I mean, we were making two sets of tracks w/ one horse. Her hindend was out there sidepassing.

Lunch time came and another good rest for Piper.

BUT!!! when we went back to work, the snow balls were flying! Snow balls, not flakes, hitting us in the eyes. I trotted to the next alley, and lo and behold, she skipped into a lope.

Now, Goldpiper had told me that she hasn't loped her since she was riding her as a 3 yr old.

Her lope was easy, controlled and comfy.

We got into the pens, and I can hear her clicking her heels together saying "There's no place like home, there's no place like home."

Then she figures out that when the cattle bunch up like that for a snow storm, they do that for the heat.

LOL... I couldn't get her out of the middle of the cows. She's like, "Nuh-uh, I ain't leaving. I'm comfy right here. Hope you got another way to get home."

All in all, she did good... and bad. I saw a lot of resistance, a lot of evasions that are gonna have to get worked out, and a lot of work on the way she uses her body. I know she's got a decent head tuck, but I sure haven't seen it today.

She did loose some weight since she's got here, and today didn't help. But I've started her on grain, and I'll be working her up to the usual three gallons I feed my horses here.

Off into the bath tub to warm up.

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I was almost going to suggest a little lunging last night.

I'm so glad that she did pass the eval. I said a few prayers last night.

I'm sure she's thinking there's "no place like home", as most of day is spent in the pasture.

I know that attitude quite well. I hope that maybe in a week or two she'll settle down a bit more and hopefully not give you so much attitude.

Sometimes I don't think she really has those light bulb moments, but more of a resistance to what you are trying to teach her and then she finally gives in and just does it your way.

Do I need to send you some shin guards till she quits running into the fence? She hasn't done that to me for a long time.

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I was almost going to suggest a little lunging last night.

I'm so glad that she did pass the eval. I said a few prayers last night.

I'm sure she's thinking there's "no place like home", as most of day is spent in the pasture.

I know that attitude quite well. I hope that maybe in a week or two she'll settle down a bit more and hopefully not give you so much attitude.

Sometimes I don't think she really has those light bulb moments, but more of a resistance to what you are trying to teach her and then she finally gives in and just does it your way.

Do I need to send you some shin guards till she quits running into the fence? She hasn't done that to me for a long time.

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Second day of work...

My daughter has a T-shirt that says "Your mouth is moving and all I hear is BLAH BLAH BLAH".

That is what Piper reminded me of today.

I'd give her a cue, and I could see that she heard me... an ear would flick or she'd raise her head...

But respond? Nope, not today.

"Hey Piper, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?"

We finally got on the same page, and called a compromise on a time lag. My son bought this cheap DVD player, and the further it gets to the end of the movie, the more the sound gets ahead of the picture.

I'll get progressively more demanding as we go... Today was wet and slimey after yesterdays snow, so picking a fight and sticking to it would've been pretty dangerous.

I could tell she was sore from yesterday tho... LOL. Where the cinch sits was a little touchy as was the breast collar area, and [Embarrassed] the spots where my spurs hit. LOL!!

They are gonna be even sorer tomorrow, I'll bet.

She's gonna be happy to get a couple of days off.

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Second day of work...

My daughter has a T-shirt that says "Your mouth is moving and all I hear is BLAH BLAH BLAH".

That is what Piper reminded me of today.

I'd give her a cue, and I could see that she heard me... an ear would flick or she'd raise her head...

But respond? Nope, not today.

"Hey Piper, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?"

We finally got on the same page, and called a compromise on a time lag. My son bought this cheap DVD player, and the further it gets to the end of the movie, the more the sound gets ahead of the picture.

I'll get progressively more demanding as we go... Today was wet and slimey after yesterdays snow, so picking a fight and sticking to it would've been pretty dangerous.

I could tell she was sore from yesterday tho... LOL. Where the cinch sits was a little touchy as was the breast collar area, and [Embarrassed] the spots where my spurs hit. LOL!!

They are gonna be even sorer tomorrow, I'll bet.

She's gonna be happy to get a couple of days off.

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She'll get used to it, poor girl. She'd been living the life of luxury in the pasture. But I think this will be good for her and she'll end up more willing to work when asked.

I know those grumpy moments. [big Grin]

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She'll get used to it, poor girl. She'd been living the life of luxury in the pasture. But I think this will be good for her and she'll end up more willing to work when asked.

I know those grumpy moments. [big Grin]

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I had a horse for about 15 min this morning. Right after she figured out "Oh ****... This is gonna be like work?" and right before she figured out "Oh ****... This is gonna be like work!!!"

Starting out after a couple of days off was miserable. Especially since her hindquarters are so stiff, and she bunches up a little bit and she feels like she's gonna buck. But really, I don't think she will.

Anyways... We started over north today, and man did she wanna run. I told you I'd loped her the first time after a couple of yrs on Sat, and she thought that was the funnest thing since Chevy Chase.

I kept her at a trot, AND... didn't allow her to trot sideways.

OMGosh, did she pitch a hissy fit. Backing, kicking, biting the horses that just so happened to come up next to her... unbelievable.

It must've been pretty comical to watch. Three steps trot, 20 steps back, kick, three more steps trot, 15 back, bite, kick, 5 steps trot, 10 back, etc, etc.

I'm sure it was a lot funnier than it felt for me... Cause I was ready for a full blow up any second. Course the guys were razzing me about it all day. PLUS... Any time one of the bosses was driving by, or a feedtruck, I had to make her look like she was an angel. They tend to frown on horses pitching hissy fits around here.

I finally got her lined out and we trotted and "Yay!!!" loped all the way to the North Alleys.

And hit the first gate.

I could tell she was gonna hit it as hard as she could, so I managed to aim her own shoulder into it. She backed away, took better aim and rammed my leg into the gate. But I was ready and had my spur turned into her belly. So the harder she tried to squeeze my leg, the harder my spur gouged her belly. She did that 4 times afore she let me open the gate.

And lemme tell ya... This was no opportunity shot.

This was very much on purpose, "I'll fix you, *****" aimed, intended damage.

Goldpiper, did I tell you I charge $50 for every bruise your horse gives me? [Wink]

We figured things out over the next few gates tho. She never missed her aim, and I only missed one. But she now gets gates very nicely. Which makes me the winner.

We had a quiet morning over all, only had to pull two, and she got a long lunch. I had some other footback work to do.

And boy did I ride a different horse in the afternoon.

I had to help my partner sort, weigh and move 500lbs calves. Now them little suckers are fast. We didn't do any of the up close sorting, but still had to help a lot w/ the mistakes. Then we had to count 70 of at a time and put them on the scale and count them off again. Now, these little buggers were just flying by us. And I had to move her 1/2 a foot at a time to keep them coming by us slow enough to count them. And she did GREAT for all of it.

She did super for the moving, too. Some gates she didn't understand, but she let my sorta guide her to manage them. Not easily, but manageable.

Goldpiper...

Did I tell you that when I ride someone's horse, I can tell exactly where your mistakes are?

I can tell you put a head tuck on her. But collection and the outward sign of collection comes from BALANCE, and balance in a western horse comes from OBEDIENCE. I know that here on the board, you get a lot of advice from mostly english folks too. And the advice is valid... For an english horse. But it'll really screw up your western horse.

If you don't have obedience, you don't have balance. You add a tucked head to an unbalanced, disobedient horse, you get one that is very badly on the front end. Which is exactly Piper's problem.

She is so unable to use her hindend, that she continually travels w/ her frontend down, and her hindend straight up and pushing. Yes, you can ask her to tuck her head, but it only throws her onto her front more.

Sooo... Guess what I'm doing now?

I'm getting her head up even more. LOL!!!

Trust me on this.

She needs to find her center of balance afore we can even talk about tucking that head. Like I said before, obedience is the only way she's gonna find it. So I stop her w/ her nose in the air, I start her w/ her nose in the air, I let her move laterally w/ her nose in the air. The only time that I'm actually looking for a flexible poll is when I'm turning. And even then, I don't even worry about it very much.

I'm trying to use my back to engage her back. But she's so much stronger than me that so far all I've gotten for my trouble is a backache. (Goldpiper says "Ah sheesh, there goes another $50") [big Grin]

Anyhooo... This is my progress report.

I think I'm gonna have to ride her tired. I don't usually like to ride tired horses, I'd rather train them. But she is so strong that I'll have to let her lungs engage her brain afore I can teach her anything. So she'll have to go again tomorrow.

[ 11-27-2007, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: GreyHorse ]

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I had a horse for about 15 min this morning. Right after she figured out "Oh ****... This is gonna be like work?" and right before she figured out "Oh ****... This is gonna be like work!!!"

Starting out after a couple of days off was miserable. Especially since her hindquarters are so stiff, and she bunches up a little bit and she feels like she's gonna buck. But really, I don't think she will.

Anyways... We started over north today, and man did she wanna run. I told you I'd loped her the first time after a couple of yrs on Sat, and she thought that was the funnest thing since Chevy Chase.

I kept her at a trot, AND... didn't allow her to trot sideways.

OMGosh, did she pitch a hissy fit. Backing, kicking, biting the horses that just so happened to come up next to her... unbelievable.

It must've been pretty comical to watch. Three steps trot, 20 steps back, kick, three more steps trot, 15 back, bite, kick, 5 steps trot, 10 back, etc, etc.

I'm sure it was a lot funnier than it felt for me... Cause I was ready for a full blow up any second. Course the guys were razzing me about it all day. PLUS... Any time one of the bosses was driving by, or a feedtruck, I had to make her look like she was an angel. They tend to frown on horses pitching hissy fits around here.

I finally got her lined out and we trotted and "Yay!!!" loped all the way to the North Alleys.

And hit the first gate.

I could tell she was gonna hit it as hard as she could, so I managed to aim her own shoulder into it. She backed away, took better aim and rammed my leg into the gate. But I was ready and had my spur turned into her belly. So the harder she tried to squeeze my leg, the harder my spur gouged her belly. She did that 4 times afore she let me open the gate.

And lemme tell ya... This was no opportunity shot.

This was very much on purpose, "I'll fix you, *****" aimed, intended damage.

Goldpiper, did I tell you I charge $50 for every bruise your horse gives me? [Wink]

We figured things out over the next few gates tho. She never missed her aim, and I only missed one. But she now gets gates very nicely. Which makes me the winner.

We had a quiet morning over all, only had to pull two, and she got a long lunch. I had some other footback work to do.

And boy did I ride a different horse in the afternoon.

I had to help my partner sort, weigh and move 500lbs calves. Now them little suckers are fast. We didn't do any of the up close sorting, but still had to help a lot w/ the mistakes. Then we had to count 70 of at a time and put them on the scale and count them off again. Now, these little buggers were just flying by us. And I had to move her 1/2 a foot at a time to keep them coming by us slow enough to count them. And she did GREAT for all of it.

She did super for the moving, too. Some gates she didn't understand, but she let my sorta guide her to manage them. Not easily, but manageable.

Goldpiper...

Did I tell you that when I ride someone's horse, I can tell exactly where your mistakes are?

I can tell you put a head tuck on her. But collection and the outward sign of collection comes from BALANCE, and balance in a western horse comes from OBEDIENCE. I know that here on the board, you get a lot of advice from mostly english folks too. And the advice is valid... For an english horse. But it'll really screw up your western horse.

If you don't have obedience, you don't have balance. You add a tucked head to an unbalanced, disobedient horse, you get one that is very badly on the front end. Which is exactly Piper's problem.

She is so unable to use her hindend, that she continually travels w/ her frontend down, and her hindend straight up and pushing. Yes, you can ask her to tuck her head, but it only throws her onto her front more.

Sooo... Guess what I'm doing now?

I'm getting her head up even more. LOL!!!

Trust me on this.

She needs to find her center of balance afore we can even talk about tucking that head. Like I said before, obedience is the only way she's gonna find it. So I stop her w/ her nose in the air, I start her w/ her nose in the air, I let her move laterally w/ her nose in the air. The only time that I'm actually looking for a flexible poll is when I'm turning. And even then, I don't even worry about it very much.

I'm trying to use my back to engage her back. But she's so much stronger than me that so far all I've gotten for my trouble is a backache. (Goldpiper says "Ah sheesh, there goes another $50") [big Grin]

Anyhooo... This is my progress report.

I think I'm gonna have to ride her tired. I don't usually like to ride tired horses, I'd rather train them. But she is so strong that I'll have to let her lungs engage her brain afore I can teach her anything. So she'll have to go again tomorrow.

[ 11-27-2007, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: GreyHorse ]

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She's a stubborn thing.

Where's the head shaking icon when you need it.

I hope for yoursake that she gives in soon. She's pulled some of this stuff with me but never to that extent. Silly girl.

I knew she was traveling more on her front and not engaging the hind. I think all the time off she had did not do her any good either.

May she takes after her owner and is not a morning horse. [ROTFL]

[ 11-27-2007, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: goldpiper ]

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She's a stubborn thing.

Where's the head shaking icon when you need it.

I hope for yoursake that she gives in soon. She's pulled some of this stuff with me but never to that extent. Silly girl.

I knew she was traveling more on her front and not engaging the hind. I think all the time off she had did not do her any good either.

May she takes after her owner and is not a morning horse. [ROTFL]

[ 11-27-2007, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: goldpiper ]

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